Hunting & Fishing 223 for Whitetail

[PSL1078]

I know this topic has been discussed on other web sites, but I wanted to hear from people on "the hide." I have a lot of Federal 64 grain SP TRU (Tactical Rifle Urban) ammo and the following ammo:
http://www.kiesler.com/police/productdetail.aspx?pid=1541

Has anyone ever used this on whitetail deer/hogs/etc? Typical Georgia whitetails are 100-150 lbs. I have a buddy that killed a 150 lb. hog with the 64 grain TRU and killed one with a FMJ 7.62x39. One shot with TRU and 4 with the FMJ AK round to bring them down. Any other suggestions for 223 hunting round?

Yes, it is legal to hunt with .22 in GA. No opinions, please. only those that have shot an animal with 223!!!!

 

[JCH]

Re: 223 for Whitetail

223 is plenty on deer. Shot placement is everything! Even more so with the 223, but yes. It will do the job. I personally use a 243.

 

[PSL1078]

Re: 223 for Whitetail

I have other rifles to hunt with, I just wanted to hunt with my 223 AR.....

 

[ggmanning]

Re: 223 for Whitetail

2 of my children started hunting deer with the .223 The 8 year old still hunts with it. All together they have shot 12 deer with it and with the right load it hammers them. Shots were within 135 yards and we have never had a deer run more than 20-30 yards yet. I tell them to shoot them in the shoulder and that does the trick. They are shooting Barnes 53 gr TSX.

The TSX comes 53.55,62,and 70 gr and Nosler makes a 60 gr Partition....all would be very good deer bullets.

 

[patriotoutlaw]

Re: 223 for Whitetail

I have killed 52 MO Whitetail does with my Mini-14. My Son and I have taken several bucks as well with it. All shot in the neck with 65gr. SBT/GameKings. Although maybe not an "ideal" deer round, it is very effective when used within its capacity. That being said, I PREFER my .308.

 

[gopherslayer]

Re: 223 for Whitetail

The add says it is bonded so I would use it.

I've used 63gr sp to kill a 6pt buck a few years ago. Over 18" of penetration.

This year I used a 53gr tsx. Pretty awesome damage. Bullet kept on truckin'.

 

[B.Bates]

Re: 223 for Whitetail

I did a little pig population herd management this weekend with my ar-15

i have an 18in barrel shooting the 62g barnes tsx under 25g of varget not sure what the muzzle velocity is

I killed 4 biggest was 165 pounds smallest 130lbs

however there was two that i didnt find, day 1 a large group came out, shot the biggest sal in the head and then turned and shot another dropping it, i then tried to get another but they were gone, i turned back and the 2nd pig was getting up and starting to run off i fired and hit him again.

i looked for this guy for a while but didnt find him, i know he was hit twice possibly 3 times, the kicker was all shots were taken when he was moving so i am unsure of the exact shot placement but he was hit in the shoulder area.

fast forward to the next morning, same situation a group comes out i take aim at the best looking sal shot her in the head, there were 2 sals in this group so after the one fell i swung on the other one, she stopped and i shot her in the shoulder i found a little blood and looked for half the day but never found her

i am not happy about loosing game, it sucks, but these pigs can become a problem and i would not take the shots if it would of been deer


yes a 223 work but to me it is not ideal for pigs

i feel with proper shot placement and a good bullet it will work fine on deer especially our smaller souther deer

i think for larger tougher game like a hogs a larger gun is better but if you jsut plan on taking one here or there and you take a head shot then you will be fine

 

[Playerz1337]

Re: 223 for Whitetail

All the whitetails we have gotten the past two years are between 80-100 lbs. All shoulder shots with Hornady 75gr Amax and Hornady 68gr Match HP.

From 50 yards to 300 yards away, the 300 yard doe walked about 50 ft before she fell but the others flopped right over. Her heart was in pieces from the 75 Amax though.

 

[vance]

Re: 223 for Whitetail

My son killed this 9 point at 215 yards last year with a 60gr Nosler bullet. He was 9 at the time and shooting from a solid prone position. It still took him 3 shots to put one on the shoulder. He was shooting a T/C Contender with 20" barrell.

 

[PSL1078]

Re: 223 for Whitetail

That's a nice buck. Did he miss, or did it take 3 rounds to put it down?

 

[vance]

Re: 223 for Whitetail

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PSL1078</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That's a nice buck. Did he miss, or did it take 3 rounds to put it down? </div></div>
He missed. Partly my fault. The gun was sighted in at 100 and I told him to hold too high. I told him top of the back and realized it was too high so I told him to hold two thirds up on the point of the shoulder since he was quartering to and he drilled him. You can see the entrance in the pic on the front of the shoulder. The deer only ran about 30 yards and we watched him go down. I recovered most of the bullet on the off shoulder and it completely ruined both shoulders.

 

[SFC Carpentier jr]

Re: 223 for Whitetail

Myself and my brother have killed quite a few deers with a 223. Of course many of them were at least 100 to 175 yards. He also took a nice 10 point with a 223 this weekend. As was posted bullet placement is the key.

 

[Irrigator]

Re: 223 for Whitetail

.223 is great for whitetail hunting. The way the gun shoots AR platform or Bolt gun platform, allows you to head shoot with very good accuracy. Which if you are going to hunt, no better place to shoot them. Instant death and virtually no time for the deer to tense up and make the meat tough. Never understood why people are so intune to shooting deer behind the shoulder etc. The deer runs for how ever many yards, then you have to hang the meat or cooler it for several days to make it worth eating, unless you are just grinding into sausage meat, which is a complete waist.

I use a 55gr SGK #1390. To this day I have not had to track an animal yet.

 

[coldboremiracle]

Re: 223 for Whitetail

I shot my very first deer with a .223, worked just fine. A good friend of mine shot a doe this year with his .223 shooting 75 Amaxs at 340 yds, slightly quartering to us. She stumbled about 30 yds and went down. recovered the bullet in the gut pile.

 

[MikeeBooshay]

Re: 223 for Whitetail

Many many deer with 223. When we cull our herd I use a 223, with 55 grain Vmax. I've also shot a ton of hogs with it, in either case, you must make a good shot placement. I like using the 223 for culling since I know he Vmax normally will not penetrate the exit side and hurt/kill an unintended animal.

I dropped more than a few large Axis bucks with it too, but almost always shoot them just behind the ear. Instant DRT.

Having said all that, if the thought of a wounded animal with it's jaw blown off bothers you, don't do head shots. Do enough of them, and you will eventually ooch one off to the side a bit. I haven't yet..... but I have had to hunt a finish a couple other poeples. Respect the gift we have been given and make a clean shot.

Mikee

 

[mberry223]

Re: 223 for Whitetail

Works fine. Hit them high in the shoulder, head or neck so they don't run. 223 does not leave much of a blood trail to follow.

 

[battlestick]

Re: 223 for Whitetail

223 is plenty. My oldest son's best to date. Just a few months ago.

62gr TSX exit wound through the off shoulder below.

 

[SmokeRolls]

Re: 223 for Whitetail

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: battlestick</div><div class="ubbcode-body">223 is plenty. My oldest son's best to date. Just a few months ago.

62gr TSX exit wound through the off shoulder below.

</div></div>
Beautiful rack and beautiful head on that deer.
Thats just a pretty little buck.
...SmokeRolls

 

[ggmanning]

Re: 223 for Whitetail

Thought I'd add to what the .223 will do....it has been the perfect deer round for my children when they are too little to shoot bigger and I use it often myself. My smallest hunter with his best buck shooting his .223 went about 10 steps and fell over.

 

[SmokeRolls]

Re: 223 for Whitetail

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ggmanning</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thought I'd add to what the .223 will do....it has been the perfect deer round for my children when they are too little to shoot bigger and I use it often myself. My smallest hunter with his best buck shooting his .223 went about 10 steps and fell over.

</div></div>
I'll bet he's proud of that one, as well as you.
.....SmokeRolls

 

[ggmanning]

Re: 223 for Whitetail

Wouldn't have been near as proud if i shot it myself smoke.

 

[TOP PREDATOR]

Re: 223 for Whitetail

the .223 will take it a deer down, but so will a .22lr - shot placement the key.

however the .223 would not be my first choice, or for that matter in the top 10 of low recoiling rifle cartiridges for using on deer.


up in alaska, canada and further north, the eskimos use it to bring down everything from small seals to big bear. not because it's the choice caliber, but it's about all they got and they know how to use it quite well as a tool of utility nad not luxury.

 

[ggmanning]

Re: 223 for Whitetail

Have you ever seen a deer shot with a bonded or all copper big game bullet or are you basing your opinion on varmint bullets? The .223 does a lot more than marginally take down a deer. Down here where our limits allow 6 deer a year each I see a lot of deer shot with a lot of calibers and not just little does as you have seen in this thread. I stand by my evaluation of it as a deer round. Just out of curiosity what are the 10 low recoiling rounds ahead of the .223 in your mind?

 

[gopherslayer]

Re: 223 for Whitetail

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: winmagfrog</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Works fine. Hit them high in the shoulder, head or neck so they don't run. 223 does not leave much of a blood trail to follow. </div></div>

Don't believe this statement. 223 will leave plenty of blood to follow. The trail is usually short from my experience and my friends. If I shoot one next year I will bring the camera and take plenty of pics.

 

[birddog28]

Re: 223 for Whitetail

.223 GAP Kill. 120 yards with 75g Hornady TAP. His legs crumbled our from under him and he never got up!

 

[mberry223]

Re: 223 for Whitetail

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Viper 762</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gopherslayer</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: winmagfrog</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Works fine. Hit them high in the shoulder, head or neck so they don't run. 223 does not leave much of a blood trail to follow. </div></div>

Don't believe this statement. 223 will leave plenty of blood to follow. The trail is usually short from my experience and my friends. If I shoot one next year I will bring the camera and take plenty of pics. </div></div>

I was sorta thinkin the same thing. The only time I don't see a heavy blood trail is when FMJ's are used. They don't do the damage an expanding round does, thus leaving a smaller wound tract. But I have seen other game hit with Hornady .223 ballistic tipped ammo and leave plenty of blood. </div></div>

Your experiences differ from mine. Over the last several years, I've shot over 40 white tail with 5.56, all 77 grain SMK's. The ones that I hit in the heart and lung area run the typical 20-200 yards, and I've gotten a less than desirable blood trail on all of those. Mostly just little spots and transfer on high brush, never big gushing splatters. I have not had a deer take more than a step or jump after shot in the shoulder with 77 grain SMK's, I prefer that to tracking- no matter how good the blood trail is.

I prefer bow hunting and mainly hunt by that method, so it takes a conscience effort on my part to raise the sights up to the shoulder. That may also explain why I feel the blood trail is poor, I like it to be a red highway like a broadhead leaves. I hate tracking...

Bottom line, 5.56 kills deer just fine. When using 5.56, I prefer a shoulder shot so I don't have to worry about finding the animal afterwards.

Happy hunting!

 

[kyreloader]

Re: 223 for Whitetail

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: winmagfrog</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Viper 762</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gopherslayer</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: winmagfrog</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Works fine. Hit them high in the shoulder, head or neck so they don't run. 223 does not leave much of a blood trail to follow. </div></div>

Don't believe this statement. 223 will leave plenty of blood to follow. The trail is usually short from my experience and my friends. If I shoot one next year I will bring the camera and take plenty of pics. </div></div>

I was sorta thinkin the same thing. The only time I don't see a heavy blood trail is when FMJ's are used. They don't do the damage an expanding round does, thus leaving a smaller wound tract. But I have seen other game hit with Hornady .223 ballistic tipped ammo and leave plenty of blood. </div></div>

Your experiences differ from mine. Over the last several years, I've shot over 40 white tail with 5.56, all 77 grain SMK's. The ones that I hit in the heart and lung area run the typical 20-200 yards, and I've gotten a less than desirable blood trail on all of those. Mostly just little spots and transfer on high brush, never big gushing splatters. I have not had a deer take more than a step or jump after shot in the shoulder with 77 grain SMK's, I prefer that to tracking- no matter how good the blood trail is.

I prefer bow hunting and mainly hunt by that method, so it takes a conscience effort on my part to raise the sights up to the shoulder. That may also explain why I feel the blood trail is poor, I like it to be a red highway like a broadhead leaves. I hate tracking...

Bottom line, 5.56 kills deer just fine. When using 5.56, I prefer a shoulder shot so I don't have to worry about finding the animal afterwards.

Happy hunting! </div></div>

Here is a picture of a blood trail I had while shooting my .223. I was shooting 40g GS Custom HV bullets at 3800 fps and the shot was about 25 yards.

Picture of the heart'lungs after it passed through.

.223 with the right bullet seems to work pretty well. This deer went about 10 yards after the shot.

 

[Searcher]

Re: 223 for Whitetail

I know a guy that hunts deer with a .17HMR exclusively and he does this for a living. Exercise good shot placement. If a shot is questionable, dont take it.

 

[m249]

Re: 223 for Whitetail

ive shot deer with the 223 max shot 250yds went about 10 yds. i use hornadys 55gr vmax or winchestersballistic silvertip which both are pretty deadly on anything i can shoot. makes a great squirrel round too

 

[coldboremiracle]

Re: 223 for Whitetail

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Viper 762</div><div class="ubbcode-body">if you're worried about a blood trail for tracking an animal, you're shot placement may be a little off. If you are having problems with the animal scootin' after it's hit, maybe it's time to upgrade to a bigger round. </div></div>

Shot placement trumps caliber/cartridge always. I watched a guy ham an elk with a 300wm, it didn't leave a trail to follow either, all the weight and speed of the bigger round didn't open it up.

 

[mberry223]

Re: 223 for Whitetail

Again, only offering my experiences, and I am confident in saying that I have taken more life than most with 5.56.

There is a huge difference in slinging a 77 grain bullet at 27-2800fps and a 40 grain bullet at 3800 fps. 90% of the time, with a shoulder shot, I can recover the round on the opposite side, mostly intact. I would imagine the 40 grain produces very different results, probably a little more dynamic.

As for shot placement and tracking, that's why I shoot the shoulder, not heart and lungs. I am humble enough to say I've learned that lesson the hard way, more than once. If you have never lost an animal, my hat is off to you. You are either far superior to 99% of hunters, or it just hasn't happened to you yet.

My comments reflect the results with my round & at my velocity. Different rounds will produce different results, that might be one of the reasons they make so many different kinds

Most importantly, happy hunting.

 

[Jerkface11]

Re: 223 for Whitetail

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: winmagfrog</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

As for shot placement and tracking, that's why I shoot the shoulder, not heart and lungs.

</div></div>

That goes for any caliber not just .223 I once took a heart lung shot on a smallish doe with a .50 cal muzzel loader destroyed half of both lungs and took a chamber off of her heart and she still ran 100 yards.

 

[gopherslayer]

Re: 223 for Whitetail

Anything can happen when it comes to deer.

I would think the 77smk needs a little resistance to open up. Either way dead is dead and continue to use the bullets of "your" choice. There is alot of choices out there pick what works for you.

 

[B.Bates]

Re: 223 for Whitetail

shot a 150 lb florida whitetail today with a 62g tsx out of my ar-15

hammered him hard in the shoulder only made it 30 yards

good bullets and proper shot placment work everytime


works great for deer

 

[olympian]

Re: 223 for Whitetail

My .223 was used to kill a NC whitetail with one shot of a 80gr. Hornady AMAX at 2700fps muzzle velocity. It hit a rib upon entry and passed through both lungs to take out a rib on the far side.

After seeing that, I would not question the effectiveness of the .223 on smaller whitetails with a good bullet, reasonable distance, and good shoot placement.

 

[xringr]

Re: 223 for Whitetail

i have an sps varmint in 223 that i hunt with. I had the barrel cut back to 18 inches a couple years ago from a 26 for better maneuverability and the groups shrank to one 30 cal size hole @ 100 yds. extremely accurate with almost anything i shoot in it. 55 gr v-max with 27 gr benchmark(yes 27 gr) is the most accurate. most blood trails are puddles under their heads where they fall.some people dont like to see the eyeballs out on a stem hanging but i dont mind. the neck shots dont run either, and ribcage looks like hand grenade went off on opposite side. never underestimate the 223 as a deer cartrige.

 

[chefrific]

Re: 223 for Whitetail

I was always skeptical of the 223 for whitetail until this past season. I took a friend of mine's son hunting for the first time and he brought along his grandfather's H&R .223 single shot. A group of does came out and he fired. She went 2 steps and fell. As I went to go get the truck to collect his first deer, I heard another shot, and when I returned with the truck, he was standing over a spike buck! He also only went a few paces and dropped. Massive damage to lungs.

 

[chefrific]

Re: 223 for Whitetail

And for the record... He was using Barnes 53g TSX bullets.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ChefTSX</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was always skeptical of the 223 for whitetail until this past season. I took a friend of mine's son hunting for the first time and he brought along his grandfather's H&R .223 single shot. A group of does came out and he fired. She went 2 steps and fell. As I went to go get the truck to collect his first deer, I heard another shot, and when I returned with the truck, he was standing over a spike buck! He also only went a few paces and dropped. Massive damage to lungs.

</div></div>

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: 223 for Whitetail

Our deer up here tend to run a bit more weight; maybe 20-30lb more. More mass conserves heat better, and our Winters are brutal on deer. Natural selection favors more massive deer around here. Even our 'Yotes are big.

A few of my friends/neighbors use mini-14's on their land for deer and coyotes, and nobody's complaining.

Until recently, my zone required the use of either shotgun slugs or muzzle loaders. Now that centerfire rifle is an option, I go out with .280 Rem, .30-'06 bolt guns, or a .44Mag lever carbine. I can still use slugs, and prefer .20ga sabots when I do. Most shooters here like the '06 nowadays.

If you have something more substantial than the .223, I'd recommend it, but a well placed shot with a significantly decent .223 round should not lead to disappointment.

Greg

 

[armorpl8chikn]

Re: 223 for Whitetail

The 223 is not for every whitetail. I had a chance to work with a taxidermist a few years back and I learned some kinda fast that the skin on northern whitetails is incredibly thick. Hell the hair on a big northern whitetail is hard on a bullet. Being from the south I thought all whitetails had 1/8 inch thick hide and 1/2 inch of hair. I was imediately impressed that my 30-06 would be best if I ever went north to hunt.
I have seen a lot of arguement about the 223 being sufficient whitetail medicine. It is plenty if you never ice skate on your duck pond. I have killed numerous deer with the 223 and would not think twice about doing it again. It works fine on most southern whitetails with proper bullet selection.
EDIT: Forgot about bullet selection. I used Barnes bullets back when they made hunting bullets. I used the 70gr Barnes Original,pure copper jacket, soft lead core. Sadly they are no longer made. It seems all my favorite hunting bullets are gone and I am not that old! I would pick the 60gr Nosler Partition if they still make it.....they still make that one right, or am I even farther behind the times?
Please don't get you panties in a wad about my Barnes bullet comment. No offence was intended.

 

[CNOTES]

Re: 223 for Whitetail

I believe good shot placement key.

 

[FIREMEDIC27]

Re: 223 for Whitetail

A good friend of mine dropped 2 does just minutes apart with 55g Ballistic tipped Ultramax remanufactured ammo out of his DPMS 20" AR. Both rounds passed completely through and turned the lungs to liquid. Both deer died within 25 yards. One round never touched a bone, still expanded well. The other broke ribs on the way in and out. With serious damage in between.

 

[benchmstr]

Re: 223 for Whitetail

TO THE TEXAS GUYS...

i always thought it was illegal here in texas to deer hunt with a 223?

bench

 

[Furtaker_.223]

Re: 223 for Whitetail

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: nighthawk2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My son killed this 9 point at 215 yards last year with a 60gr Nosler bullet. He was 9 at the time and shooting from a solid prone position. It still took him 3 shots to put one on the shoulder. He was shooting a T/C Contender with 20" barrell.

</div></div>

Great picture. Your son looks like a happy camper. Awesome deer as well.

 

[SuperSeal110]

Re: 223 for Whitetail

Ive shot a handful of deer with .223/.223ai's and never had a problem. Shots ranged from 30yds out to almost 400yds. All deer haven't ran more then 30yds before tipping over.

Small 9pt with .223ai w/75gr SSII's.

 

[glocker17]

Re: 223 for Whitetail

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">TO THE TEXAS GUYS...

i always thought it was illegal here in texas to deer hunt with a 223?
</div></div>

Its legal, any centerfire is the rule. I have used 22 Hornet with the old Barnes 45 XLC. I guess 25 ACP would be legal as well?

 

[SSGN8]

Re: 223 for Whitetail

Its not legal here in KS but i know of cases that a deer has ran into a 77grn smk and died in its tracks, i wish it was legal , would save on ammo cost, most shots around here are 70-250yrds it would be perfect.

 

[rpk762]

Re: 223 for Whitetail

I have used many different bullets for a 223 to shoot deer. Any good bullet and shot placement is key. I have shot a few with 40gr nosler BT bullets. All were at 100yds and head shots. Deer never moved besides just dropping. Even the standard Winchester 55gr SP will drop a deer when you put it in the chest in the correct spot.

 

[Archer762]

Re: 223 for Whitetail

Like everyone says: shot placement. I hunted on land where the owner "accidentally" killed a doe in her garden with a 1,000fps .22 pellet gun. The pellet went between the ribs and into the heart. The deer walked about 5 steps before dropping.

 

[recon762]

Re: 223 for Whitetail

223 will work fine on dear. Is it the greatest no but i have put down plenty of dear rangeing anywhere from 50 to 488 yards (says the range finder) They were also any were from 150 to 250 pounds. On the other hand i have had buddies lose deer hit good behind the front shoulder so as all these guys will say shot placement is more important than when useing say a 30cal. Best of luck on the hunt