223 rem load data .VS

[Dildobaggins]

New to reloading. I'm Loading some 55 grain Hornady soft points and some 73 grain ELDM. For the 55 grains I'm using H335. In my Lyman 50th edition it has a starting load for H335 of 24.3 and a max load of 27. Looked at hodgdon and they start much lower. Bought a page from the Hornady reloading book online for the 55 grain soft points, and thier starting load is 20.8 and max load of 23.2. Am I missing something? I know that different books will obviously give different data, but that seems like a lot. The starting load for Lyman is a full grain over the max load for Hornady.

 

[mercervillerental]

In my experience Hornady is comically conservative

 

[Dildobaggins]

In my experience Hornady is comically conservative

That was my thought as well, but I figured they make some pretty accurate ammo, so maybe they were on to something.

 

[r.tenorio671]

...many of the powder manufacturers have their current data freely available online. In their published data you will always find variations between manufactures. One thing to look at is the length of the barrels they use for testing and the COAL of the load, both of which will affect FPS attained as well as pressure rating for that load (which isn't always shown but doesn't exceed the SAAMI rated psi). As always advised, start low and work your way up.

YMMV

 

[Dildobaggins]

...many of the powder manufacturers have their current data freely available online. In their published data you will always find variations between manufactures. One thing to look at is the length of the barrels they use for testing and the COAL of the load, both of which will affect FPS attained as well as pressure rating for that load (which isn't always shown but doesn't exceed the SAAMI rated psi). As always advised, start low and work your way up.

YMMV

Thank you for the info! Didn't think about COAL. Lyman is 2.260. Hornady is 2.200 From what I'm seeing the Lyman book doesn't give a barrel length or twist. Just a lecture on them all. Hornady was using a 26" 1-12 twist. Just finished loading. Went from suggested start to max with Hornady data. I'll look for pressure signs, which I doubt I'll see, and hopefully find one that shoots well.

 

[DaveCo]

You need to look at the details of each load, not just the bullet weights.
For example, in this case:

Lyman manual list a Sierra 55g bullet, with OAL OF 2.26.

Hornady manual shows OAL OF 2.2.

Different bullets, different OAL, equals different pressures. Start low, be careful.
FWIW, I shoot a lot of the Hornady 55g SPS, I don't use H335, but I've gotten excellent accuracy using a variety of powders, well below max. For exampleexample, just above the 3000fps CFE223 load gives me approx. 3100 fps, and if it doesn't group around 1/2", it's my fault.

For fun, download the most recent Western/Accurate manual. For all their acceptable powders, they list lots of different bullets (multiple makes of the same weight). Spoiler alert, the max charge varies by bullet make. (They also list pressures)

Accurate Powders

Dot Com Classifieds - Buy, Sell, Trade. Stuff lives here...

accuratepowder.com

ETA:Lyman shows a 24" barrel. The test details are always just before the lightest projectile data. Also identifies exactly which bullet they use at each weight.

Dave

 

[Dildobaggins]

You need to look at the details of each load, not just the bullet weights.
For example, in this case:

Lyman manual list a Sierra 55g bullet, with OAL OF 2.26.

Hornady manual shows OAL OF 2.2.

Different bullets, different OAL, equals different pressures. Start low, be careful.
FWIW, I shoot a lot of the Hornady 55g SPS, I don't use H335, but I've gotten excellent accuracy using a variety of powders, well below max. For exampleexample, just above the 3000fps CFE223 load gives me approx. 3100 fps, and if it doesn't group around 1/2", it's my fault.

For fun, download the most recent Western/Accurate manual. For all their acceptable powders, they list lots of different bullets (multiple makes of the same weight). Spoiler alert, the max charge varies by bullet make. (They also list pressures)

Accurate Powders

Dot Com Classifieds - Buy, Sell, Trade. Stuff lives here...

accuratepowder.com

ETA:Lyman shows a 24" barrel. The test details are always just before the lightest projectile data. Also identifies exactly which bullet they use at each weight.

Dave

Awesome! Thanks Dave!

 

[GrumpyOleFart]

☝All really good advice, @Imthatguywithquestions .
Construction of the "perfect" round for your rifle, entails all of the above.
Remember that the fastest round isn't necessarily the most accurate.
Enjoy!

 

[nn8734]

Awesome! Thanks Dave!

What length / gas system type is your barrel and does it have a 5.56 NATO chamber or .223 Remington or 223 wylde?

I’m using h335 and Hornady 55g in a lake city case and my max load before over pressure is 25.3g of H335 in both my 14.5 and 10.3” barrel ARs. Can’t match the velocity of IMI XM193 out of either so I’m prob going to switch to TAC…

 

[Dildobaggins]

What length / gas system type is your barrel and does it have a 5.56 NATO chamber or .223 Remington or 223 wylde?

I’m using h335 and Hornady 55g in a lake city case and my max load before over pressure is 25.3g of H335 in both my 14.5 and 10.3” barrel ARs. Can’t match the velocity of IMI XM193 out of either so I’m prob going to switch to TAC…

Idk if this was meant for Dave or me, but I'm using a 5.56 NATO chamber. Its a stag varminter. 24 inch varmint contour barrel with a 1-8 twist. I have 1 pound of TAC as well. If these don't shoot well I'll try the tac. I loaded the 55gr in Winchester brass. I have Lapua brass, but I'm saving those for the 73 grain eld-m.

 

[nn8734]

Idk if this was meant for Dave or me, but I'm using a 5.56 NATO chamber. Its a stag varminter. 24 inch varmint contour barrel with a 1-8 twist. I have 1 pound of TAC as well. If these don't shoot well I'll try the tac. I loaded the 55gr in Winchester brass. I have Lapua brass, but I'm saving those for the 73 grain eld-m.

Was meant for you, I quoted your post. I suspect TAC will yield nice results. I’m going to load up some rounds this week. If I get out to test later in the week, I’ll post results here. You will have a little more latitude with charge weight compared to me, longer barrel and rifle length gas vs carbine length.

 

[r.tenorio671]

Idk if this was meant for Dave or me, but I'm using a 5.56 NATO chamber. Its a stag varminter. 24 inch varmint contour barrel with a 1-8 twist. I have 1 pound of TAC as well. If these don't shoot well I'll try the tac. I loaded the 55gr in Winchester brass. I have Lapua brass, but I'm saving those for the 73 grain eld-m.

.....if you're just buying 1# cannisters, you might want to try ARComp & 8208XBR...

 

[Snuby642]

Very good advice that bullet weight is not the dominant factor.

Different bullets with the same weight can not he loaded the same. There are different shapes and the ogive is placed differently.
That will change pressure.

The two major differences you will find are tangent ogive and secant ogive. Tangents load easy and accurate but not great for longer ranges but be careful about running into lands. The secant bullets have a longer tip better bc and good for longer ranges but are more finicky to load .

That is a generalization and you should read up on it.

Those hornady 55g sp bullets suck for accuracy. Imho

Speer 52g hp are an easy to load short range plinker that will group.

 

[DaveCo]

Very good advice that bullet weight is not the dominant factor.

Different bullets with the same weight can not he loaded the same. There are different shapes and the ogive is placed differently.
That will change pressure.

The two major differences you will find are tangent ogive and secant ogive. Tangents load easy and accurate but not great for longer ranges but be careful about running into lands. The secant bullets have a longer tip better bc and good for longer ranges but are more finicky to load .

That is a generalization and you should read up on it.

Those hornady 55g sp bullets suck for accuracy. Imho

Speer 52g hp are an easy to load short range plinker that will group.

Snubby,
A year ago I'd have agreed with you about the accuracy of the Hornady 55gSP (and still do about the 55g FMJ). But I slowed them down some, left lots of jump, and got really good results. I would have given up on them but I had a bunch, and the 53g and 55g v-max shot so good, I was determined to make them work.
CZ 527 Varmint, Wylde chamber, 9 twist, 24"

Dave

 

[Snuby642]

Fair enough Dave.

I've been running them in 16 inch, 1 in 8 twist carbines and never got past 1 1/2 inch groups at best.

My son handed me a bunch of speer 52g and they run 1 1/8 and less if I use my can. The load works well in all of our carbines.

So that is where my opinion was formed.

I now use the speers as a controll group when testing other bullets.
They cost more but not Sierra or Bergers prices just for plinkers.

I start off with a couple of fowlers then shoot a group with the speer.
If good, I go to work on my load testing.

If not good I get a range guy hotshot to run a couple of groups to sort out gun or operator.

I'm old and some days it's just me.
I stop the test and just shoot a few groups with the spears or some times hold a little contest with the range guys for fun.

Those guys like my plinkers and occasionally lay down a cherry group I wish I could claim. Lol

 

[Dildobaggins]

Was meant for you, I quoted your post. I suspect TAC will yield nice results. I’m going to load up some rounds this week. If I get out to test later in the week, I’ll post results here. You will have a little more latitude with charge weight compared to me, longer barrel and rifle length gas vs carbine length.

Nice! Looking forward to see how it goes. I'd like to shoot tomorrow, but I'm in NY and it'll be 10 degrees. Haha

 

[Dildobaggins]

.....if you're just buying 1# cannisters, you might want to try ARComp & 8208XBR...

I'm on every list for notifications I know. Alot of powders are showing up. I saw ar comp 1 time I think, and it was gone in like 5 minutes. Just gotta be quicker.

 

[Wyldeman]

What length / gas system type is your barrel and does it have a 5.56 NATO chamber or .223 Remington or 223 wylde?

I’m using h335 and Hornady 55g in a lake city case and my max load before over pressure is 25.3g of H335 in both my 14.5 and 10.3” barrel ARs. Can’t match the velocity of IMI XM193 out of either so I’m prob going to switch to TAC…

What speeds are you getting out of your 10.3” with h335

 

[Doom]

Most find something around 25gr of H335 with 55gr pills. I can tell you that 26gr in hot weather can lock up a bolt gun. I know that from experience.

 

[supercorndogs]

In my experience Hornady is comically conservative

What kind of pressure testing equipment did you use to come to the conclusion?

 

[Yotekiller67]

I got some 55 grain soft points from Everglades a while back and I've used 25gr of h335 for FMJ loads. I looked on the canister of H335 and there's load data for 55 grain soft point with cannelure using 25.3 gr and OAL of 2.200". I used that data knowing it was the max load and received 1/2" groups or better at 100 yds using Lake City brass and CCI primers with no pressure signs. Armalite 5.56 16" 1/7 twist barrel. Using for coyotes.

 

[Dildobaggins]

I got some 55 grain soft points from Everglades a while back and I've used 25gr of h335 for FMJ loads. I looked on the canister of H335 and there's load data for 55 grain soft point with cannelure using 25.3 gr and OAL of 2.200". I used that data knowing it was the max load and received 1/2" groups or better at 100 yds using Lake City brass and CCI primers with no pressure signs. Armalite 5.56 16" 1/7 twist barrel. Using for coyotes.

Nice! I ended up shooting the best 3 shot group I ever shot with 55gr soft point, 23.4gr of h335, cci #41 and Winchester brass. Believe it was .134 Vast majority of my groups are between .3-.5 with that load and my WOA varmint barrel.

That's great to hear about the 1/7 twist shooting them great. I bought a Colt a while back. Going to try that load in it.

 

[M4orturnate]

24g should be a safe starting point with any brass and 55g bullet combo. Do 23.5 if youre worried. Ive gone to 25.8 in lake city brass with 77 grainers. It was warm in a ar

 

[Yotekiller67]

Nice! I ended up shooting the best 3 shot group I ever shot with 55gr soft point, 23.4gr of h335, cci #41 and Winchester brass. Believe it was .134 Vast majority of my groups are between .3-.5 with that load and my WOA varmint barrel.

That's great to hear about the 1/7 twist shooting them great. I bought a Colt a while back. Going to try that load in it.

I agree, surprisingly that barrel loves 52,55 and 69 grain bullets but hates the 75 grain variety. I attached a photo of my best 5 shot group with the soft points.

 

[Yotekiller67]

24g should be a safe starting point with any brass and 55g bullet combo. Do 23.5 if youre worried. Ive gone to 25.8 in lake city brass with 77 grainers. It was warm in a ar

I bet it was quite warm!! I use 24.3 gr of CFE223 for my 69 grain loads and it's sub moa 5 shots all touching. I have harvested deer,hogs and a lot of coyotes with that bullet and load. Just wanted to use a lighter,faster bullet like the 55 grain soft point.