.223 Rem - Slower burning powders for longer barrel?

[rking453]

I'm putting together a 26" .223 bolt rife for shooting 77 and 80 grainers. All my past .223 load development has been for a 13.9" AR. Using BL-C(2), TAC, SW Match etc. Wondering if I should be looking into slower burning powders for higher velocities, taking more advantage of the whole barrel length. What do you folks recommend?

 

[6brshooter]

Never tried anything slower than h4895/varget in my bolt 223, it's a 24". Actually using tac with 77smk on a Dillon 650, getting just under 3k fps. Have another load that I use for longer than 600yds, it's h4895 and 75 eldm.

77smk with thrown charge at 600

75eldm and h4895

Edit: the 77smk is 2945fps and the 75eldm load is 2990

 

[rking453]

Wow hard to argue those results! I have all three of those powders on hand, looks like I should just start with those.

 

[Chickentoast]

I'm currently running 80 eld-m's with N540 in a 26" barrel. Ragged holes in the 0.1's and 0.2's. Ran N140 and 203b in the past with the same accuracy, but lower velocities. My barrel also likes mid 24 g's for the high node on all of those powpows.

edit- my COAL is 2.4965 with the 80's @ 7 off. It's a Shilen ratchet groove VLD chamber.

 

[Dogtown]

Some QL predictions for you using Berger 77OTM for example...

 

[Lightning8]

Running 223 loaded long to MDT 223 mag length in Savag action with 1-7 twist, 26 inch barrel with TAC and 80 SMKs no issues. 2900+ fps

 

[rking453]

View attachment 7834845
Some QL predictions for you using Berger 77OTM for example...

Great info! Thank you very much, this helps a lot. Looks like SW Match would be a good place to start. I bought 8 lbs on a whim, and it has proven to be a great versatile powder for me. I would think loading out to 2.550" would allow me a little more room for powder / lower pressure correct?

 

[6brshooter]

I really like tac in 223. Works great with 50gr vmax and up to 77smk. My thermal rifle is loaded with 50gr vmax and tac, cruises at 3100 from a 16" woa. My pri mk12 loves 69tmk and tac at 2890fps. This nucleus bolt gun gets along good with 77smk and tac. It meters fantastic in a rcbs comp uniflow and in a standard Dillon powder measure. Bonus, it's fairly temp stable(for a ball powder) and is in stock usually.

 

[MarkyMark007]

Wondering if I should be looking into slower burning powders for higher velocities, taking more advantage of the whole barrel length.

no.
slower burning powder for longer barrel and faster burning for shorter is a myth, that it wont die soon!

 

[M4orturnate]

Shooters world match rifle gives really good speed. Ive tried 6.5 staball in the 223ai and had moderate success. Always end uo going back to varget and ar comp tho

 

[Seymour Fish]

I'm putting together a 26" .223 bolt rife for shooting 77 and 80 grainers. All my past .223 load development has been for a 13.9" AR. Using BL-C(2), TAC, SW Match etc. Wondering if I should be looking into slower burning powders for higher velocities, taking more advantage of the whole barrel length. What do you folks recommend?

H4895 , 1:7, 30”, LC mixed brass, 88 eldm, .200 free bore, .020 Off, 2850 is the node, @ 24.5 gr. Varget node is much slower, and falls apart above 2775. 2520 , or shooters world equivalent, meters great and is accurate with 77’s at mag length, if temp is stable. Just a couple points on the 223 curve that might be of use.

 

[rking453]

H4895 , 1:7, 30”, LC mixed brass, 88 eldm, .200 free bore, .020 Off, 2850 is the node, @ 24.5 gr. Varget node is much slower, and falls apart above 2775. 2520 , or shooters world equivalent, meters great and is accurate with 77’s at mag length, if temp is stable. Just a couple points on the 223 curve that might be of use.

Great info, thanks! Looking forward to experimenting here.

 

[Seymour Fish]

Shooters world match rifle gives really good speed. Ive tried 6.5 staball in the 223ai and had moderate success. Always end uo going back to varget and ar comp tho

Ever try Staball with 88’s or 90’s ? Thinking about it

 

[Snuby642]

Any of you have 223 loads with H335?

 

[RogueTanker]

Ever try Staball with 88’s or 90’s ? Thinking about it

I did. There's photos and data in the 223 Ackley thread but long story short is that I got good velocity and accuracy, but terrible SDs. Extreme spreads of 40+ fps constantly

 

[Skeptic1]

Rl15. Loaded oal 2.5 inches, throat cut specific for the oal, with 80gr amax eld. 24.1 grains got 2850fps with deviations less than 15fps all day without Ackley improved or wylde just full length sized not fire formed brass from a 26" barrel. 2.5" oal will feed from AI mags
Built on a mod70 action. Built it back around 2010. Dont see many people playing with the .22 cal heavy pills any more. I took it to 1200 meters and it bucked the wind better than anything else on the range that day.
PM me and we'll talk about it if you want.
BTW..... I'm in central upstate NY

 

[PB&J.]

H4895

H4895

H4895

And if you're still curious, then try some H4895

 

[M4orturnate]

Ever try Staball with 88’s or 90’s ? Thinking about it

I have with 80s in 223ai. Got pretty good results but it needs to be compressed pretty good to get the speed i wanted. Was about 2950 from a 20" barrel

 

[MarkyMark007]

little balls, large groups...

 

[rking453]

H4895

H4895

H4895

And if you're still curious, then try some H4895

Haha good thing I have some on the shelf already, I'll definitely be giving it a try.

 

[rking453]

Rl15. Loaded oal 2.5 inches, throat cut specific for the oal, with 80gr amax eld. 24.1 grains got 2850fps with deviations less than 15fps all day without Ackley improved or wylde just full length sized not fire formed brass from a 26" barrel. 2.5" oal will feed from AI mags
Built on a mod70 action. Built it back around 2010. Dont see many people playing with the .22 cal heavy pills any more. I took it to 1200 meters and it bucked the wind better than anything else on the range that day.
PM me and we'll talk about it if you want.
BTW..... I'm in central upstate NY

Sounds like great results! It seems like a fun caliber to play with using heavy bullets, they're available and not crazy expensive. Perfect for what I'm doing. Not a competition shooter, just like getting to the range as often as I can, and might even enjoy reloading / experimenting more than actual shooting. Very curious where you were able to shoot 1200 in CNY!

 

[Mooseknuckles]

Any of you have 223 loads with H335?

I have loaded a few hundred rounds with h335 and 55gr fmj for plinking rounds. Loaded 25 grain of h335, mixed range brass, cci41 primer and berry’s 55gr fmj. Coal is 2.245. Not sure on velocity but accuracy is decent out of 16 inch gun with a red dot.

 

[M4orturnate]

Any of you have 223 loads with H335?

Great powder for a ar up to 69g or so. For a bolt gun i like extruded powders. Just seem to do better for me

 

[Skeptic1]

Very curious where you were able to shoot 1200 in CNY!

I didn't say that I took it to 1200 meters in central NY. I said "I am in central NY".

I was at Thunder Valley Precision in OH when I did that.

 

[tylerradke]

8208 xbr if you can find any

 

[Skeptic1]

I tried 8208. Couldn't get to 2800fps without blowing primers.

 

[Onewolf42]

Great info! Thank you very much, this helps a lot. Looks like SW Match would be a good place to start. I bought 8 lbs on a whim, and it has proven to be a great versatile powder for me. I would think loading out to 2.550" would allow me a little more room for powder / lower pressure correct?

Did you get your barrel chambered/necked for 2.550" ? My 223 Rem has a standard chamber and I can't load ELDM 75s past 2.41" without jamming them. I will get this fixed soon I hope.

 

[dgheriani]

I've run Varget or the Canadian version of 8208 called D8208BR in 3 or so 26" long .223 barrels. I use 75gr BTHPs or ELDMs @ 1.955 BTO. 25gr of Varget or 22.7 of D8208 gets me 2900-2950 depending on the powder lot.

 

[tylerradke]

I tried 8208. Couldn't get to 2800fps without blowing primers.

Wow I'm surprised. I started blowing primers at 2900 with a 22" barrel AR. What was your charge and oal?

 

[Skeptic1]

I dont remember the charge I was trying with the 8208. It was enough to blow primers.
Oal was 2.5" as previously stated

 

[Tx_Aggie]

I dont remember the charge I was trying with the 8208. It was enough to blow primers.
Oal was 2.5" as previously stated

What primers were you using?

 

[Skeptic1]

Winchester primers and fgmm

 

[MK20]

How is tac with temp swings? Where I live my Temps can range from -10 to 110 so I like something that is at least somewhat temp stable.

 

[Skeptic1]

You don't necessarily need temp stability.
You only need to know with some degree of certainty what effect a degree of temp change has on the powder you are using.
With rl15...... 1 degree equal 1 fps

 

[Snuby642]

Does that 1 / 1 ratio cover multiple barrel lengths?

 

[Skeptic1]

In my experience it seems to have been pretty accurate

 

[Snuby642]

Good to know thanks.

 

[SporterII]

I've run Varget or the Canadian version of 8208 called D8208BR in 3 or so 26" long .223 barrels. I use 75gr BTHPs or ELDMs @ 1.955 BTO. 25gr of Varget or 22.7 of D8208 gets me 2900-2950 depending on the powder lot.

Was my load. Very reliable over entire barrel life. OP may not have room for 25 Varget.

 

[6brshooter]

How is tac with temp swings? Where I live my Temps can range from -10 to 110 so I like something that is at least somewhat temp stable.

I haven't saw a huge difference, maybe .5fps/degree. I saw a chart in the 308 load thread, tac was more stable than 8208.

 

[Skeptic1]

I haven't saw a huge difference, maybe .5fps/degree. I saw a chart in the 308 load thread, tac was more stable than 8208.

Come to think of it........ the week that I did my load development it was 95°-100° all week. Maybe that's why the 8202 was blowing primers. The rl15 seemed to do much better up around 100°

 

[6brshooter]

I've tried to get loads with 8208 in 223, 6br, and 6.5grendel, just never had much luck with it. Actually found better accuracy and consistency with h4895 or varget. The one thing that stuck out to me about 8202, it behaves nice and then pressure spikes hard. No signs of pressure, everything nice, and then .2 or .3 more and BAM, hard bolt lift and ejector swipe. Between that characteristic and poor accuracy(not as good as h4895 or varget) I quit messing with it.

 

[Skeptic1]

I'll agree with that.....

Actually, let's not forget imr4895. It's a little slower than H4895 and I've had decent results with that as well.

 

[dgheriani]

Was my load. Very reliable over entire barrel life. OP may not have room for 25 Varget.

It's not a compressed load and that OAL fits fine in MDT poly and metal .223 mags. It is too long for AR mags though.

 

[GIXXER2000]

I have been using IMR 3031 for years and both my Sig and Ruger gas guns have not had any issues.

 

[rking453]

Did you get your barrel chambered/necked for 2.550" ? My 223 Rem has a standard chamber and I can't load ELDM 75s past 2.41" without jamming them. I will get this fixed soon I hope.

I ordered a Criterion from Northland with their 223 Match Chamber, I believe it has a 0.090" freebore. I have not had a chance to measure what this equates to for COAL for me. I purchased Berger 80 grainers to start. I am using the Wyatts .223 box magazine system, cartridge overall length allowed is 2.850″

 

[rking453]

Here is the chamber drawing.

 

[Uncoolguy75]

I'm putting together a 26" .223 bolt rife for shooting 77 and 80 grainers. All my past .223 load development has been for a 13.9" AR. Using BL-C(2), TAC, SW Match etc. Wondering if I should be looking into slower burning powders for higher velocities, taking more advantage of the whole barrel length. What do you folks recommend?

What type of velocity are you pushing out of the 13.9 with a 77g?