223 small base sizing die???

[pueo700pps]

Please help with advise on switching over to a small base resizing die for AR-15 223 reloading. Would it help with any feeding problems I have once in awhile with using std. sizing dies?
I was looking into ordering the RCBS small base x die and also dropping them into the wilson case gauge, any help would be great. Thanks!

 

[ZombieMonkey]

Have you ever measured your cases to see if you are bumping the shoulder back enough? Standard dies are usually more than enough as long as you are setting them up to bump the shoulder back enough.

 

[bigedp51]

I use a small base die when I buy once fired brass and size it once and return the brass to minimum dimensions, there after I only use a standard full length resizing die. The chamber on your AR15 is .002 larger in diameter than a SAAMI .223 chamber so a standard die should work fine. We live in a plus and minus world and having a small base die can be useful, my small base die only makes the cases .0005 smaller in diameter BUT is sizes further down the case.

Your problem might be in relation to sizing and not bumping the shoulder back far enough. I use the Hornady Cartridge Case Headspace Gauge to measure the fired case length and then bump the shoulder back .003.

 

[bschnzl]

I had extraction issues with my RRA A2 National Match rifle. Quite embarrasing to say the least. Two rounds got stuck so hard I had to use a cleaning rod and a rubber hammer to get them out - on the firing line.

When I got back, I made ten dummy rounds from cleaned brass. 8 of ten would not drop into the chamber! A few months later I was looking at some gun porn, and lo - RCBS came out with dyes that were .001' thinner. I have not bought them yet. Got other things to do!

So, If you can load, fire and extract your rounds, case outside diameter is probably not your issue!

What exactly are your "feeding problems"?

 

[pueo700pps]

It seems once in awhile I will have chambering problems in my AR, I have been reloading for many years and do all the case prep, but have never used a case gauge. Saw a video of a person resizing a 223 case with a std die and then drops the case into his gauge and it sticks up above the correct level on the gauge. He then resizes it with a small base die and drops it in the gauge and the case goes down to the right height! So I was wondering if maybe that would be my problem at times!

 

[pueo700pps]

Thanks, that makes some sense. I need to start checking with a gauge!

 

[Mad_Charlie]

Thanks, that makes some sense. I need to start checking with a gauge!

I agree completely, and wholeheartedly, and strongly recommend acquiring a guage as soon as possible!

 

[bschnzl]

Getting stuck was a function of the force of insertion by design. So, I too need a guage. Its easier (safer, better result...) that using the chamber for a guage! Live and Learn. Thanks for bringing it up!

 

[JGorski]

Please help with advise on switching over to a small base resizing die for AR-15 223 reloading. Would it help with any feeding problems I have once in awhile with using std. sizing dies?
I was looking into ordering the RCBS small base x die and also dropping them into the wilson case gauge, any help would be great. Thanks!

I used Redding FL 223 dies for my son's Colt and RockRiver, a bit over 1K round thru each one, not one failure.

 

[mtrmn]

JP - Gunsmithing and Maintenance
These case gages are the only ones I know of that will measure EVERY dimension of your cases. The inner walls are tapered just like a rifle chamber because they're made with chamber reamers. Every 308 and 223 round I load gets dropped in one of these before it goes in the ammo can. That way I know I won't have any chambering problems.

Hard chambering can also be caused by over-crimping with a roll crimp die. If you are crimping with your seating die, try a few rounds without crimping and see if the problem goes away. Many say crimping is not necessary and I believe them, but it makes me feel better. I use a Lee FCD for this.

I have 2 AR15's that require the small base dies to make 100% reliability. Therefore all my ammo for my ARs is sized with a small base die-I do not want to segregate ammo for certain guns unless I'm doing accuracy testing. I expect my reloads to function in any gun I happen to pick up. Anything less is a mission fail.

 

[bigedp51]

pueo700pps

mtrmn just gave some very good advice in the above posting.

1. If the case fits the gauge listed above it will fit in any chamber and find any defect that the case could cause.
2. The RCBS AR dies are taper crimp dies and will cause far less problems when crimping AR .223/5.56 reloads.

I have two AR15 rifles and a Savage .223 bolt action and have reloading dies for loading both type rifles. I also said we live in a plus and minus world. Meaning rifle chambers and reloading dies vary in diameter and headspace, the Redding small base body die below sizes the cases to a smaller diameter and headspace length than the RCBS AR Series die does.

As you can see from my photo below there is nothing wrong with having more than one sizing die, and the RCBS AR dies are a good addition for loading the AR15 rifle.

Again your rifle will decide which type dies it likes best due to the various chamber types and finishes. My A2 HBAR does not have a chrome bore and chamber and the chamber is not as large in diameter as my carbine AR. (plus and minus world)

 

[HodgdonExtreme]

Something I've not seen mentioned is inconsistencies in sizing.

These things will cause your sizing to vary:

Headstamp
pre-sizing size of case
consistency of lubrication
consistency of press operation
maybe more?

When processing a big batch of mixed milsurp 1x brass, I set my sizing die so that the LARGEST case comes out of the die at GO minus .002", which invariably means the SMALLEST case will come out GO minus .006" or so.

Which is to say I've seen a .004"-.005" difference in "headspace length" of cases. If I set simply set my die to GO minus .002", based on just a few cases, I'd wind up with a bunch at GO plus .002"+, which wouldn't feed/extract properly.

 

[Pinecone]

I had some .223 rounds I had loaded that would not chamber in a new rifle. It seems the new one needs the shoulder bumped a bit more.

I found I had to overcam the die a bit more than I had been for that rifle.

 

[pueo700pps]

Thanks for all the good info guys!! I will try the RCBS AR dies, and get a good case gauge and be more careful with how I reload!

 

[elfster1234]

IMO, it would be rather rare to need a small base die for 5.56.............. More times than not, full length resized 5.56 reloads that jam are due to not bumping back the shoulder enough / incorrect headspace. Are you using a hornady headspace gauge to make sure you bump back your shoulder / datum enough from brass fired out of your rifle? This was the mistake I made when I first started reloading for .223 / 5.56.

I have found that 7.62 AR's require small base dies (IF YOU ARE HAVING AN ISSUE WITH IT) much more often in comparison to 5.56.

Please help with advise on switching over to a small base resizing die for AR-15 223 reloading. Would it help with any feeding problems I have once in awhile with using std. sizing dies?
I was looking into ordering the RCBS small base x die and also dropping them into the wilson case gauge, any help would be great. Thanks!

 

[ZombieMonkey]

IMO, it would be rather rare to need a small base die for 5.56.............. More times than not, full length resized 5.56 reloads that jam are due to not bumping back the shoulder enough / incorrect headspace. Are you using a hornady headspace gauge to make sure you bump back your shoulder / datum enough from brass fired out of your rifle? This was the mistake I made when I first started reloading for .223 / 5.56.

Thank you, there have been multiple threads on this recently and a number of people keep skirting around the issue recommending small base dies when the OP has not verified they are bumping the shoulder back enough. 9 times out of 10 with an AR if you are having cycling issues with your hand loads it is because you have incorrectly setup your sizing die. The first step to troubleshooting these problems is by measuring with the headspace gauge and a good quality caliper.

 

[elfster1234]

this is how I do it:

http://www.snipershide.com/[email protected]

Thank you, there have been multiple threads on this recently and a number of people keep skirting around the issue recommending small base dies when the OP has not verified they are bumping the shoulder back enough. 9 times out of 10 with an AR if you are having cycling issues with your hand loads it is because you have incorrectly setup your sizing die. The first step to troubleshooting these problems is by measuring with the headspace gauge and a good quality caliper.

 

[bruddah]

Thanks for all the good info guys!! I will try the RCBS AR dies, and get a good case gauge and be more careful with how I reload!

The RCBS Small base AR dies are the ones I've used for my ARs without any issue. I've also got outstanding accuracy using them as well. The only drawback is they may overwork your brass therefore you may not get as many loadings out of them. The good thing is they don't appear detrimental to accuracy, and they provide reliable feeding.

 

[JGorski]

Like it's been said before, the reason brass won't fit in your chamber is because the shoulder wasn't moved back enough, if that's not the case then the chamber was made too tight by the fault of the person that made the reamer. The latter should never happen, never. I suppose if you have shit brass that springs back too much for some crazy reason, then get some good brass yeah, or if you wanna keep your shit brass then you'd need small base dies if regular FL dies wont work, but it's not the dies fault in that case.

 

[pueo700pps]

Thanks to everyone with so much good info. I have learned alot!!

 

[sinister]

Bumping the shoulder to proper dimension has very little to do with whether or not the case body is properly resized to fit the chamber (especially if you are shooting your reloads inter-changeably between bolt rifles and auto-loaders).

You may or may not NEED a small-base die. Your rifles' chambers are the ultimate gages -- if cartridges drop in and chamber completely, then fall out on their own with just gravity (and not requiring a tap or push out with a cleaning rod) you're good.

If a cartridge dropped in requires you to push the cartridge forward using a finger or the locking and camming power of your bolt you're not sizing far enough. Your bolt carrier group and chamber will be resizing on the locking stroke. You risk a slam-fire with an AR.

Push your shoulders back farther than .002 and you risk case wall thinning over the usable life of the case. Done correctly you can get at least 20 firings from each piece of brass.

A small-base die will give you peace of mind that your ammo will fit interchangeably (much like grabbing any box of factory ammo). If you have any concern you can segregate your ammo into bolt gun-only and auto-loader only ammo. More time and organization than I care to take.

Check bigedp51's posts and you'll find a great body of good info.

 

[Henny]

I'm another believer in using a case gauge.

One thing to make sure is that you may have your sizing die adjusted correctly, but your expander button is pulling your shoulder up. This can happen due to a lack of lube on the case mouth.

Size some without the expander, check them in the gauge, then size some with your expander and see if there's a difference.

 

[918v]

my small base die only makes the cases .0005 smaller in diameter BUT is sizes further down the case.

That's how they are able to accomplish the extra .0005" of sizing without forming a step on the case wall.

 

[918v]

It seems once in awhile I will have chambering problems in my AR, I have been reloading for many years and do all the case prep, but have never used a case gauge. Saw a video of a person resizing a 223 case with a std die and then drops the case into his gauge and it sticks up above the correct level on the gauge. He then resizes it with a small base die and drops it in the gauge and the case goes down to the right height! So I was wondering if maybe that would be my problem at times!

The case gauge is not your chamber. Only your chamber is your chamber. The two are made by different people using different tools. They are not the same.

You have your chamber. Size a case and stick it in the chamber, then close the bolt. Use the forward assist. Or if you don't have one, open the receiver up and use your fingers. If the bolt rotates closed under finger pressure, you're good.