.223 Trainer Build on Rem 700, .223 or .223 AI, Smithed or Prefit?

[loudandproud]

So, my match rifle if a defiance, and 23" hawkhill in 260, stuffed in a XLR Carbon chassis. Id like to build a .223 or .223AI trainer. I train at two ranges. %75 of the time at a 300 yard and %25 on a 1100 yard range.

Two Questions;

1.) .223 Rem, or .223 AI?

I'm looking for the best performance and barrel life. I have a concern about barrel life with the AI, but I would plan on finding a light .223 load using cheap 55 grainers for 300 yard practice to keep the barrel happy, and then shoot 75-80 classers, cranked up for the 1200 yard range. Fireforming doesnt concern me. Ill train positional with the fireforming ammo since absolute accuracy isnt uber critical when training positional.

How much life are you guys getting out of your trainers? 3/4 MOA would be my limit for acceptable accuracy.

2.) I have a .223 Remington 700, unmolested. Weighing accuracy vs. cost per round (when including barrel life), would you go prefit or get the rifle trued and install a bartlien?

Prefit Advantages: Cheaper initial cost, cheap cost per round, easier to swap when it burns up.
Prefit Disadvantage: Longer initial lead time (Id be sending it to LRI to get smithed and they are typical in and our in 1-2 weeks), Lower accuracy potential

Smithed Advantage: Fast, Accurate, More reamer options, Premium barrel selection
Smithed Disadvantage: Costly for a trainer that will be abused and shooting cheaper reloads. Once you go smithed, you can never go back, because the threads will be 1.085". <<< Biggest downside to me.


Sooooo.... you guys with trainers... what did you do and why (in the context of the questions above)? What would you do different? How has your accuracy and barrel life doing?

 

[JiggleBear]

Just get your 700 trued and keep the factory 223 barrel on there till it's toast. Then order a prefit to replace it and decide on AI at that time. The factory Remington barrels are pretty nice on a trued action.


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[Marksman10x]

Instead, I'd buy two or three 6.5 barrels and use the rest of the budget to buy ammo or reloading components. Practice the way you play

 

[loudandproud]

Just get your 700 trued and keep the factory 223 barrel on there till it's toast. Then order a prefit to replace it and decide on AI at that time. The factory Remington barrels are pretty nice on a trued action.


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I dont have a factory .223 barrel. Its just an action

 

[loudandproud]

Instead, I'd buy two or three 6.5 barrels and use the rest of the budget to buy ammo or reloading components. Practice the way you play

That doesnt really work for me. 3 barrels, smithed up would be almost $2100 and the cost per round is over double for loaded .260 with bergers. With the amount I shoot, Id need 2, barrels for one season of matches. That means working up loads and chasing dope in between matches which is something I dont need. Id rather beat the crap out of a .223 trainer and burn the barrel up than train with my very similar match rifle and have the barrel go flat by mid June.

I already have an extra carbon chassis, and identical optics. So, i am practicing the way I play. .223 AI with 80s is ballistically similar to the .260 with 140s. Only real difference is recoil which is negligible on both.

 

[Marksman10x]

Was just throwin it out there. Since you already have glass and a stock for the 223, you're right, doesn't make much sense. I guess I'm lucky to have a local gunsmith who only charges $150 to chamber.

 

[Dirty D]

A smith can square the action face and lug abutments without chasing the barrel threads then you can be off and running with pre fits. I have had Shilen and Criterion barrels that don't give up a damn thing in the accuracy department to smith installed barrels. YMMV

 

[loudandproud]

Was just throwin it out there. Since you already have glass and a stock for the 223, you're right, doesn't make much sense. I guess I'm lucky to have a local gunsmith who only charges $150 to chamber.

That's a damn good deal!

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[Sheldon N]

Food for thought.... what about a 6mm based platform for a trainer?

Don't build a new gun with a new optic, just stick with your current platform and 308 bolt face and run a switch barrel. Something like a 6BR has really good barrel life if you don't hot rod it, you could get 3000-4000 rounds holding 3/4 MOA accuracy. All you'd need is a barrel and a mag kit from PVA for feeding the shorter cases and you'd be good to go. You can run 105gr bullets factory seconds or maybe Hornady BTHP for between $0.16-0.19 ea which within a few pennies of the cost of the heavy 223 bullets.

Benefits would be the cost savings of not having another rifle/optic combo, the benefit of practicing with exactly the same platform you compete with, and being able to more easily spot your impacts out past 500 yards compared to a 223.

My comp gun this season will be a Dasher, and my plan is to run the same gun as a trainer with a reduced load (6BR velocities) and shooting the cheap 105 bullets.

 

[Hoier]

My 223 trainer is a Bughole "remage" Bartlien. If I was doing it over again I would do a smithed barrel and in 223AI. I would also make sure and use a smith that keeps your measurements so you don't have to send I. the action again. I love my trainer and shoot it 100 rounds a week.

 

[loudandproud]

Food for thought.... what about a 6mm based platform for a trainer?

Don't build a new gun with a new optic, just stick with your current platform and 308 bolt face and run a switch barrel. Something like a 6BR has really good barrel life if you don't hot rod it, you could get 3000-4000 rounds holding 3/4 MOA accuracy. All you'd need is a barrel and a mag kit from PVA for feeding the shorter cases and you'd be good to go. You can run 105gr bullets factory seconds or maybe Hornady BTHP for between $0.16-0.19 ea which within a few pennies of the cost of the heavy 223 bullets.

Benefits would be the cost savings of not having another rifle/optic combo, the benefit of practicing with exactly the same platform you compete with, and being able to more easily spot your impacts out past 500 yards compared to a 223.

My comp gun this season will be a Dasher, and my plan is to run the same gun as a trainer with a reduced load (6BR velocities) and shooting the cheap 105 bullets.

I already have the extra optic and chassis.

 

[powdahound76]

LRI. 22" rem varmint barrel1/8, wylde chamber. Thats what ya want.
I just had my receiver parked and bead blasted the barrel. Its gonna be used, not paraded, no need to spend extra cash imo.

Let us know and pics and a range report. Always like seeing what other guys do

 

[Sheldon N]

I already have the extra optic and chassis.

In that case I'd go 223AI, run cheap bullets and LC brass and shoot the piss out of it. Skip truing the R700 action, maybe just put a bolt knob on it and then use a Criterion remage. I'd say you're likely best off keeping things inside 700 yards and using it for trigger time and positional practice. Just shoot the 260 on the 1000 yard plus days.

 

[flatland1]

I built myself a 223AI on a M700 that I trued, sent the bolt out to Gre Tan to have the face bushed. Used a Krieger 1-7tw in sendero contour, finished at 26", and put it in a McM adj A5 with APA DBM. Shot it for a couple of years with a Vortex Viper PST 6-24x50, Ran it in a few steel matches locally - it shot great with Berger or JLK 90VLDs - even got hits on 1300&1400yd targets with it the 1st time I took it to that match. That brings up what I think is the main issue with a 223 or 223AI - I ran out of internal elevation between 1300 & 1400, and used the reticle to hold over 5 MOA. Even with electronic muffs & what breeze there was coming from the direction of the targets, I had no idea that I'd gotten the hits at 1300 or 1400. So I held over an additional 5 MOA for the 2nd shot at 1400, and still don't know if the hit was the first or second shot. Even 90gr 22s don't give enough feedback to call your shots from once you get out past 700yds, most of the time.

But if you're going to use it strictly as a trainer, or maybe shoot some mid-range steel matches, there's a lot to be said for a good 223. I built a 2nd 223 on a trued Howa with a Bartlein 1-7.2tw, also sendero & 26". Put a Timney trigger on it & bedded it in a Manners T stock. It's a hammer with 80s, but haven't shot enough 90s through it yet to see how it does with them. I use my 30 cal cans on both these 223s, and that does help me spot my own shots through the scope, but it's still not as easy as even a 6mm.

I fitted & chambered another Krieger 1-7 sendero in 223AI this afternoon, this time on a spare Bighorn TL2-SA, in a Manners T4A. Am going to try to sell both the other two rifles mentioned in this reply, and replace them with the Bighorn, since my other comp rifles are also built on TL2 & 3 actions.

 

[CharlieNC]

Out to 900yd my 223 elevation dope is nearly the same as my 6.5x47, which is very nice for a trainer. You can often get a CBI Remage Prefit off the shelf from Northlander. These shoot great and do well in Fclass accuracy.

 

[loudandproud]

I talked with Josh at PVA. He is going to true the action up to the existing threads so I can still run a prefit in the future. I ordered a 7 twist Heavy Palma Bartlien today and I have 500 pieces of Lake CIty 5.56 brass, trimmed, weight sorted within a grain and annealed.

Should be in business.

Now... i think i wanna do a 223ai.. Im leaning that way.

 

[Boozer]

Tag

 

[Seandradamus]

AI is my vote, mine slings 80s at 3080 in a 23" barrel
shoots in the 2s and 3s . Mines a bartlein 7.7 Smithed by LRI

 

[Birddog6424]

I have a 223 trainer that I recently picked up. I dropped a R700 ADL Varmint that I bought new for $350 into an XLR Element (my other two customs are in XLRs).

I'm going to shoot the stock barrel this year then switch to a BHW or Criterion Remage. They are both plenty accurate for the task at hand. The goal being , for me, effective practice at reduced cost. I'm not going to involve a gunsmith or added expenses. Even though one of my sponsors builds my rifles at reduced cost.

This is the beat it up barricade gun. It allows me a lot of range time without denting the bank. It doesn't make sense to me personally to sink money in to it.

 

[rookie7]

Is a 1/7" twist too fast if a person wants to shoot as light as 69 gr TMK in a trainer?

 

[BoilerUP]

Is a 1/7" twist too fast if a person wants to shoot as light as 69 gr TMK in a trainer?

Nope.

 

[Grand]

Don't worry about barrel life. Steve Timm, a former Editor if Varmint Hunter magazine, was a pioneer of the .223AI and ran his Schneider barrel over 20,000 rounds, shooting 40-50 grain bullets.