223 vs 223AI for trainer and predators

[lycokayaker]

Hey Gang


Looking at building a 223 trainer, will use it for training as well as shooting predators. I have a Terminus action so I would just get a barrel and bolt. Whats everyones opinion on these two? Any benefit to the 223Ai over the 223 for training and predators. I won't be shooting past 600yds and may use it for PRS competitions that are 600yds in.

Bill

 

[dk17hmr]

223AI is a great little round. I'd go that direction for sure. Do your practice with factory match ammo and have fire formed brass you can load for hunting.

I had a 25" 223AI that would push a 69gr at almost 3400fps with cfe223.

 

[Dough300]

I have two 223AI uppers and they are great but speed wise not in the same league with the wssm. You're looking at about 3450, maybe 3500 fps with 50 grainers. That's with a 24" barrel. Actually I've been shooting 40 grainers out of mine at 3750 to 3800 fps. The 40 gr Nosler BT has been a hammer on coyotes this year, admittedly on a small sample size (5). There's a lot to like with the AI version such as cheap brass and case trimming is a thing of the past.

I also had a 25 wssm and it didn't have any feeding problems. Other "annoyances" like really thick brass that's expensive and hard to find now. I've been there and won't go there again. If I was going to do something bigger in a .224 caliber, I'd go with a 22 DTI.

 

[Rob01]

Go .223 Wylde. That way you could use it to train and also to shoot in matches in Tac instead of shooting against open shooters. Get a 26" barrel and you can get plenty of velocity. I run a 27" on mine.

 

[Ndbowhunter]

I’m pretty stoked on 223ai as a do all setup.

With 88’s it’s basically a 6br in flight.

With 75’s and leverevolution it pushes 22-250 speeds ie 3100+

Don’t worry about trimming. I get 4-5 firings before I use anything but a collet die.

All that said, no flies on a wylde 223. Sounds like there’s an advantage to run it on competition. No need for néw dies..
25” barrel should get ya 3000 with lvr.

 

[Baron85]

I’m a fan of the 223ai but my last barrel I went straight 223 simply because the 223 prefit was on sale and would have cost a significant amount more to go 223ai.

If the barrels were the same price I would go 223 ai. The only downside is if you want to shoot Tac class.

I don’t believe that 223 AI keeps up with 22-250. Maybe hot hand loaded 223ai to factory 22-250.

I was running 3288 with 55 nosler BT out of a 24” 223ai and then I cut the barrel down to 16” and running 3060

I can’t find my data for 75eldm I used to run but I believe it was about 150 fps faster than my straight 223

 

[Matt_3479]

I don’t run a 223 ai but the benefits to the ai is well worth it in my mind! Just load and shoot 223 and then after the first firing your good to go with the ai benefits. Less trimming, slightly greater speeds.

I got a 223 barrel on trade otherwise I would of chambered in ai for sure! Luckily my 223 barrel hammers and is wicked quick! 75 eld’s at 3075fps

 

[Rob01]

3000fps is max for Tac in matches so I load my 75s in the 2950 area and go. Not sure how much speed you need for predator hunting but if you don’t need super fast then no reason to go AI.

Also not sure why trimming is mentioned as my standard 223 doesn’t really grow. They don’t seem to be real growers like some calibers.

 

[Rancid Coolaid]

3000fps is max for Tac in matches so I load my 75s in the 2950 area and go. Not sure how much speed you need for predator hunting but if you don’t need super fast then no reason to go AI.

Also not sure why trimming is mentioned as my standard 223 doesn’t really grow. They don’t seem to be real growers like some calibers.

Predator hunting is all about shooting moving targets, so the faster the projectile, the higher the probability it arrives before the target moves enough to matter.
My go-to predator gun is a 243AI throwing 105s at just over 3k. I would have done 223AI but I wanted to be able to use the gun for larger game in a pinch.

 

[Broncolou]

I really like my 223AI but it definitely doesn't put up with me not running the bolt with authority. I like the little extra speed but I find myself going reg 223 for everything before playing with the AI.....

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

The idea of a trainer is to keep costs down. You can get a proof prefit for $500 plus whatever Terminius charges for a .223 bolt. Then you can reload for about half what your match loads cost, with a barrel life that is 3-5X as long.
Going AI defeats the purposes so unless you want that for that, I would go with a .223 slinging a cheap practice bullet like 75gr eldm

 

[Rancid Coolaid]

The idea of a trainer is to keep costs down. You can get a proof prefit for $500 plus whatever Terminius charges for a .223 bolt. Then you can reload for about half what your match loads cost, with a barrel life that is 3-5X as long.
Going AI defeats the purposes so unless you want that for that, I would go with a .223 slinging a cheap practice bullet like 75gr eldm

to clarify: OP asked about training AND predator hunting.
I still contend AI is an awesome option: shoots factory 223 great, shoots handload 223AI even better. And every time you squeeze the trigger in practice, you get a perfect fire-formed piece of brass for smoking yotes and cats in the real world.

 

[Rob01]

But it’s in the competition section. Have to make choices everywhere and that’s where it’s up to the OP to figure where his compromises will be.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

If it was me and i was going custom 22 bore, it would be a 22 GT or Creed to be able to take advantage of the additional velocity. You could load them up to 3400 for varmints or load them down to 2850 to match practice loads. You also wouldn't need a new bolt.

 

[Rob01]

If it was me and i was going custom 22 bore, it would be a 22 GT or Creed to be able to take advantage of the additional velocity. You could load them up to 3400 for varmints or load them down to 2850 to match practice loads. You also wouldn't need a new bolt.

And be rebarreling every other month. Lol

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

True but wouldn't the AI also have shorter barrel life than a typical 2700 fps 77gr class .223? Maybe not GT/Creed/BR low but enough that it takes away the main reason to shoot a trainer, not burning up match barrels.

If performance for varmits is what you want, thats an easy solution. Every decision will have to weight cost/barrel life/performance.

 

[MarshallDodge]

I have both, a 22" 223AI and a 24" 223. The 223 gets shot more because I have my Dillon setup for it but I can definitely see a substantial difference in how the AI performs beyond 600 yards. I shoot the 75 ELD and 53 grain Vmax out of a 1:7.5 twist and both are in the .3s.

If you are going to carry around a rifle in the field, you will probably want a shorter barrel. You can take 4-6" off the barrel with the AI.

 

[AccuSol-ERN]

I like 223AI in a bolt action as it keeps me in check with brass sorting and keeping good brass seperated from AR fodder.

The velocity gain is neat too.

For pure "trainer" absolutely go plain 223......why complicate with effort and price??? I know a number of guys who run 1moa Dilloned 223 ammo for barricade practice and place really well in competitions.

Ern

 

[NFshooter150]

I’m pretty stoked on 223ai as a do all setup.

With 88’s it’s basically a 6br in flight.

With 75’s and leverevolution it pushes 22-250 speeds ie 3100+

Don’t worry about trimming. I get 4-5 firings before I use anything but a collet die.

All that said, no flies on a wylde 223. Sounds like there’s an advantage to run it on competition. No need for néw dies..
25” barrel should get ya 3000 with lvr.

What powder did you find to work the best for the 88s? I have a hammer load with the 85.5s and working on the 80.5s now but next is 88 elds and 90vlds

 

[RogueTanker]

What powder did you find to work the best for the 88s? I have a hammer load with the 85.5s and working on the 80.5s now but next is 88 elds and 90vlds

Varget, n140, XBR and h4895 all are solid. 4895 was 1/4 to 1/3 moa.

 

[NFshooter150]

Varget, n140, XBR and h4895 all are solid. 4895 was 1/4 to 1/3 moa.

Ya I'm gonna try it the other day at the range this guy was shooting 88 with 4895 in a 22 creed at 3200

 

[Longtrain]

I have a 223 and 223AI in a Tikka 595, two barrels, one rifle.
Currently, the AI is screwed on and it takes 73 Berger’s easily over 3100 fps Fullbore 80.5’s to 3050 fps. An easy plus over the 223. Brass lasts and basically no trimming is required.
Did I mention accuracy…very, very accurate.

 

[NFshooter150]

What powder were you running on the 80.5s and your cbto length to jam

 

[Longtrain]

I was using Norma 203B, which reportedly is equal to Reloder 15 and jumping them .015. My chamber has .095 of freebore.

 

[NFshooter150]

What brass do you use?

 

[Longtrain]

Almost exclusively Lapua, but have used other brands when I started out with the AI.
BTW some powder loads that fit in other cases would not fit in Lapua. Capacity is less in Lapua.

 

[NFshooter150]

Ya I was too I've been using some Norma as well because lately I've got lapua brass with 3 and 4 firings on it and I'm getting early signs of case head separation and hard extraction.

 

[Longtrain]

That’s not good. When I tried to push the AI a bit, the primer pockets got a little roomy, I backed off. It’s not a 22-250, just a 223 that’s been working out a little. BTW, I’m running 30” barrels, it gives me a little extra.

 

[NFshooter150]

What load did you use to fire form?

 

[Longtrain]

I used the COW method. I used 8 grains of Bullseye powder topped with either Cream of Wheat or corn meal, topped with a small patch. Making them is a little pain.

I place the rifle in my cleaning cradle at the range and run them through one after another. Run a patch down the barrel every 10 rounds or so.

I did try making them with the powder and a puff of synthetic pillow stuffing to hold the powder down. Works ok too, a bit easier.
Remember 8 grains of Bullseye is as loud as a large handgun round, eyes and ears required. Don’t do it in your cellar !

You can also just shoot a regular 223 round, it will work fine. The COW method goes very fast and you’re not burning barrel life and bullets. You’ll get probably 80% formed cases, your first load will sharpen the shoulders and make a nice looking case.

I would run 200-300 cases at a time, they last a long time, so, this isn’t a every day process. Unless you’re shooting prairie dogs, that many regular rounds would take some time.

 

[NFshooter150]

Ya I just target shoot the load I've used is aa2520 25.2 grains with smk 77 at 2.280 I'm just wondering if I went to hot or too light to where now they are separating

 

[Longtrain]

When you measure your fired cases and then resize them, how much are you bumping the shoulders? What’s the difference between those measurements? I only move mine .001-.002 max.
That load doesn’t seem extreme.