223 Wylde or 5.56 more accurate with 55gr FMJ

[Constructor]

Which is more accurate with 55gr FMj surplus ammo considering same quality barrel, 223 Wylde or 5.56 Nato?

I am NOT asking which chamber you think I should get.
Have you shot enough barrels of similar quality chambered in both the 5.56 Nato and 223 Wylde to be able to say one chamber is more accurate than the other?

 

[TonyTheTiger]

I don't shoot surplus so maybe my answer means nothing, but I have well over 30k rounds of 55gr FMJ handloads split pretty evenly between Wylde and 5.56, both 7 and 8 twist, and I've never seen any difference.

 

[Ravenworks]

I own both,if I had to pay extra for one I wouldn't have bought it

 

[Constructor]

I don't shoot surplus so maybe my answer means nothing, but I have well over 30k rounds of 55gr FMJ handloads split pretty evenly between Wylde and 5.56, both 7 and 8 twist, and I've never seen any difference.

Yeah I think there is only .006" difference in freebore but there are some out there that say they get better accuracy out of the 5.56.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

Yeah I think there is only .006" difference in freebore but there are some out there that say they get better accuracy out of the 5.56.

Maybe, but they're shooting surplus so it's all a crapshoot anyway.

 

[Constructor]

Some of that cheap $89/820 Malaysian ammo we were buying back in the early 90s would shoot under an inch. I had a post ban Colt that would do it and a Douglas barrel Derrick Martin of Accuracy Speaks chambered for me while I was on the road that would. Now the WWB will shoot around 1.25 and the IMI will out of some barrels.

 

[AIAW]

Accuracy, probably not enough to even matter if there is some difference. I’ve never noticed any.

 

[Snuby642]

With that ammo it is doubtful you can see a big difference.

You can outdo the cheap 223 ammo in any barrel you have using clean sorted picup brass and inexpensive bullets.

If money saving is worth the work it takes.

I get away with it since I'm retired and like beating the price and accuracy .

I also use the 223 reloads to work on my reloading skills to help with more serious rounds .

I have never had a 223 barrel just 5.56 and wylde and prefer the wylde in any brand.
My humble 2 c

 

[MontanaMan]

Given the inherent inaccuracy built into any basic non-match grade FMJ bullet, whether handloaded or factory, it would take a LOT of testing to be able to identify a distinct accuracy difference if there was one.

Obviously with better ammo, the fact that most precision barrels have Wylde or some other "match" chamber, like CLE, tends to indicate that those chambers are likely more accurate.

Draw your own conclusions about whether or not that "should" transfer to lesser ammo or not......................never seen any data as I doubt that anyone is really interested enough to waste the time to do an extensive enough controlled test to find out; I know I'm not.

MM

 

[Constructor]

Are all of you saying it isnt worth chambering a barrel or 100s of barrels that will shoot all of this 55gr fmj better? Are you saying if you saw 2 barrels in a store that cost the same and 1 shoots 55gr FMJ more accurately along with the longer 77s and 80s you wouldn't buy it because it doesn't matter?

 

[b6graham]

no we're saying the ammo sucks and neither will be more accurate than the other when shooting 55gr surplus ammo

 

[Constructor]

no we're saying the ammo sucks and neither will be more accurate than the other when shooting 55gr surplus ammo

Does that thought carry over to "all surplus ammo sucks so buy the cheapest barrel you can find"? I mean is that what you think most people in the US think?
This is all related to business and producing more accurate barrels. Obviously everyone doesn't think the same or look for the same qualities in a barrel but by asking a crowd I can guess at the way most think then decide if I should produce a particular product or not...or if I should just make it and not try to explain what or why?

 

[b6graham]

you asked a question. you got an answer you didn't like apparently.

pretty well known that 223 wylde will LIKELY be more optimal for both 556 and 223. reamers cost the same. chambering is the same.

confirmation bias? or you just like arguing?

 

[b6graham]

LMGTFY - Let Me Google That For You

For all those people who find it more convenient to bother you with their question rather than to Google it for themselves.

lmgtfy.com

 

[Constructor]

you asked a question. you got an answer you didn't like apparently.

pretty well known that 223 wylde will LIKELY be more optimal for both 556 and 223. reamers cost the same. chambering is the same.

confirmation bias? or you just like arguing?

IN the first post---Have you shot enough barrels of similar quality chambered in both the 5.56 Nato and 223 Wylde to be able to say one chamber is more accurate than the other?

 

[Constructor]

I do shoot a bit, I take 5 barrels out of every batch produced(223 apx 6 times a year) and shoot 3 groups of 5 with 4 of what I believe to be the most popular ammo. I know most are going to buy the cheapest crap they can buy, some buy varmint ammo and some are going to buy good/match ammo. Since 92 I have shot a lot of different barrels with different chambers. I think I know which chamber, or what chamber mod is more accurate with certain types of surplus but what the general public thinks will decide what they buy. Then I get to decide if I try to explain the differences or just not tell them and let them see the difference in accuracy.

 

[b6graham]

IN the first post---Have you shot enough barrels of similar quality chambered in both the 5.56 Nato and 223 Wylde to be able to say one chamber is more accurate than the other?

in ever post after everyone said you wont see a difference shooting 55gr surplus ammo

 

[b6graham]

so if you've done it which is more accurate?

 

[hlee]

I don’t think there are that many people that buy surplus 5.56 or cheap 223 factory ammo that EXPECT a high degree of precision. I think the argument (if it can be made) that x barrel/chamber shoots cheap ammo better than another flies over the head of most potential buyers. I mean, the thought that “I should buy this barrel because it will shoot cheap ammo pretty well” has never crossed my mind. If I’m buying a custom barrel, I want it to shoot quality ammunition very well. The average guy out with his ar and m193 only needs minute of berm accuracy to be happy.

@Constructor, while I have you here, is gas tube sold as an accessory to your 224 Grendel barrel +2 length? It shows as rifle length, though the barrel is listed as +2. Thanks.

 

[Constructor]

I don’t think there are that many people that buy surplus 5.56 or cheap 223 factory ammo that EXPECT a high degree of precision. I think the argument (if it can be made) that x barrel/chamber shoots cheap ammo better than another flies over the head of most potential buyers. I mean, the thought that “I should buy this barrel because it will shoot cheap ammo pretty well” has never crossed my mind. If I’m buying a custom barrel, I want it to shoot quality ammunition very well. The average guy out with his ar and m193 only needs minute of berm accuracy to be happy.

@Constructor, while I have you here, is gas tube sold as an accessory to your 224 Grendel barrel +2 length? It shows as rifle length, though the barrel is listed as +2. Thanks.

Yes, that option is for a matching tube. I'll check the description.

As for the thread sometimes it's more about public perception than the truth. I had an idea of how it would go but now am pretty sure how I should label it.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

Are all of you saying it isnt worth chambering a barrel or 100s of barrels that will shoot all of this 55gr fmj better? Are you saying if you saw 2 barrels in a store that cost the same and 1 shoots 55gr FMJ more accurately along with the longer 77s and 80s you wouldn't buy it because it doesn't matter?

Thats not quite what I'm saying. If one chamber is a proven step up in accuracy I'll take it, but I've never seen the proof. To echo what hlee said, I've never considered a small theoretical accuracy advantage with what I consider blasting ammo as a determining factor in a barrel purchase. In fact when I buy a barrel that I know will mostly be used as a 55gr bullet hose inherent accuracy is barely on my list of criteria, way behind weight, profile, length, gas system length, surface hardening finishes and steel that will extend service life etc.
It seems almost any barrel/chamber combo I buy will do at least 1.5 moa with decent 55gr loads, and thats very acceptable for what I do with that bullet weight.

 

[10ring'r]

When I shoot my 16" AR upper, which has a 5.56 N.A.T.O. chamber, it shoots 5.56mm ammo, no matter what grain projectile it has, it shoots it more accurately, than .223 ammo, BUT, if I go to my 18" bull barreled upper, with a .223 Wylde chamber, it shoots 5.56mm ammo more accurately than the .223 ammo. All I can figure is, it's the "higher" pressures? Don't know for sure because I do not have a chronograph to check MV's. That's all I can attest to and I could be just talking out of the side of my neck, but, that's been my experience, to this point anyways. Mac

 

[Constructor]

Just a little related info if it matters. Several years ago Shooting Illustrated published an article about the 223 Wylde but much of the info was wrong. Someone in the reply section posted this, he knows what the truth is.
"For the folks with intent to shoot Highpower, the Wylde chamber allows one to seat bullets long for slow-fire at 600-1000 yds and the bullet does not restrict powder capacity like the short-throated .223 Rem chamber does. The Wylde chamber also has a leade angle which is "jump-friendly" so that match bullets seated to mag length still provided stellar accuracy. "
-To be a little more specific it was designed to allow the 69gr and 77gr SMK to be loaded for the long line and single fed into the highpower rifle since the cartridges were loaded longer than maximum mag length. Everyone assumes the freebore of the Wylde is shorter than a 5.56 but it is not. Depending on who grinds the reamer and tolerances the freebore should be .006" longer. If the diameter of the freebore at the start of the lands is .001" larger or smaller than .224 the point where the bullet hits the lands may be .023" longer or .011" shorter.
What that means is if you are loading 55gr FMjs to 2.26 or shorter you will have a huge jump to the lands. If you are loading longer more pointy secant bullets to 2.26" you have even a longer jump to the lands.
If you are shooting long pointy high BC bullets from the mag a plain jane 223 chamber will likely be more accurate.

 

[MontanaMan]

I do shoot a bit, I take 5 barrels out of every batch produced(223 apx 6 times a year) and shoot 3 groups of 5 with 4 of what I believe to be the most popular ammo. I know most are going to buy the cheapest crap they can buy, some buy varmint ammo and some are going to buy good/match ammo. Since 92 I have shot a lot of different barrels with different chambers. I think I know which chamber, or what chamber mod is more accurate with certain types of surplus but what the general public thinks will decide what they buy. Then I get to decide if I try to explain the differences or just not tell them and let them see the difference in accuracy.

No one here has any meaningful data, as we've all said.

If you do, post it & we'll critique it; feelings or guesses are no substitute for data................the more the better.

MM

 

[MontanaMan]

Chamber reamer dimensions comapred.

MM

 

[Constructor]

I posted that on arfcom in 2007 with a similar question. Turned into a crazy exchange between the crowd there. The mod Cold locked it and said lets just agree the Wylde is more accurate than the 5.56 Nato.

 

[Constructor]

Far left is obviously a bolt gun chamber, small diameter and long freebore. 3 on right are 5.56 Nato. 4 in the middle are hybrid, 1 being the wylde. All 4 are still AR chambers capable of firing 5.56 or 223 ammo.