I am debating what for my next AR upper. I do not hunt but I shoot alot, so this is really for fun shooting out to 800. I am torn really. I owned a grendel before from Les Baer and it was silly accurate! Reloading was easy for it and it was not picky. The 224 seems to have some growing pains though. If I get the 224 I was going with Craddock, and he has them figured out. But ammo is an issue with them. I reload but lately I do not have the time so I been shooting factory ammo. Anyway- thoughts??
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224 valkrye or 6.5 grendel?
- Thread starter hitman
- Start date
I got two .224 barrels early in the release, the more I researched the round the less it appealed to me for doing anything more than shooting paper and the ammo prices are still higher than they built it up to be. 6.5G had a lot more versatility for me leaning more toward a hunting round. I've sold one barrel, the other one is still sitting there as trade bait and I don't see that changing.
Get the 6.5G seems they're still working tbe kinks out of 224v. The 1/7 barrels don't seem to be the correct twist for the cartridge and some people are having accuracy issues. 1/6.5 is probably a better twist rate but I've seen bullets come apart on camera after exiting the muzzle due to being over spun. Federal has admitted that they are also having accuracy isssues with the 90gr SMK and has issued a statement saying they're working to resolve the issue.
Also reports are coming in that the caliber is rough on brass and is only capable of 1-3 reloadings before the primer pockets loosen up and the brass can't be relaoded.
IV888 did a video on it. Johnny's reloading bench has a series on it it's about 4.5hrs long but he kind of summarises his experience with 224v in the last 8mins or so of the video I posted. Rob Ski did a video on his problems with an MSR15 in 224v as well. I'd avoid 224 Valkyrie at least for now it was me.
Also reports are coming in that the caliber is rough on brass and is only capable of 1-3 reloadings before the primer pockets loosen up and the brass can't be relaoded.
IV888 did a video on it. Johnny's reloading bench has a series on it it's about 4.5hrs long but he kind of summarises his experience with 224v in the last 8mins or so of the video I posted. Rob Ski did a video on his problems with an MSR15 in 224v as well. I'd avoid 224 Valkyrie at least for now it was me.
.224V American Gunner is available from under $10/box. Is that too steep? Frank's JP rifle seems to like it a lot. I'm buying Hornady 88g ELD-M factory for under $20 a box, which seems fair to me, and getting great results with a craddock barrel. I agree that the .224V is still in it's early stage of development, since it has been available to the regular public for only about a year now. You may recall that 6,5 Grendel is gen 2 now and that it also had growing pains.
The true test will be time, but like anything new, there will be those that have no need nor desire for it and yet will be vocal against it. Personally, my 6.7 twist Rock Creek seems to be doing fine and I'm glad I built it. As is usual, your results may vary.
Most of the you tubers have no fucking clue what they're doing and should be taken with a grain of salt... especially Johnnys reloading bench, that guy has trouble with everything it seems. There are a lot of people (myself included) that have had nothing but success with the round from the start.
There's nothing wrong with 224V, just some of the clowns making them. Choose a Craddock barrel, CMT upper, or LMT and you'll be golden.
My 1:7 LMT is running just fine with the 90gr FGMM, and even shoots the much longer 95gr SMK sub 1/2 minute.
I'm glad to hear that but wouldn't you be sceptical? RIght on camera I'm watching bullets come apart after being shot, demonstrations of primer pockets fatiguing prematurely, and poor accuracy, along with Federal's statement acknowledging and admitting poor accuracy.
Not necessarily and without knowing every factor it’s hard to say. What I can say is that you certainly can’t blame the chambering if it’s a matter of rifling specs or the bullet, so to say the Valkyrie has kinks because of that is just untrue.
I shot plenty of the Nosler 60gr loads out of my 6.7 twist Craddock and not only did they make it to the target every time, the accuracy was exceptional. Those have a much thinner jacket than the 90 SMK and are also traveling much faster.
There does appear to be some creditable evidence of problems with the twist rate, accuracy, bullet construction of the 90 SMK, and poor brass life which maybe the largest issue I personally have. I'm referring to those as "kinks" that need to be worked out which is a fair assessment. I'm not blaming the caliber as a whole 224v will probably mature to be a great caliber one day but there does seem to be some initial issues just like any other new item.
Again, issues with components has absolutely NOTHING to do with the 224V chamber. NOTHING. It doesn’t have to mature, a few manufacturers just have to get their shit together. Do you think every manufacturer has every 223 barrel and 223 load to a T? Hell no, does that mean that 223 still has kinks to be worked out? No. There will always be good stuff, and there will always be shit. The only reason 223 may be more solid is because there’s more R&D that is widely known for it from over the years and the companies that have to be spoon fed instead of getting stuff right for themselves can even get that right.
As to the brass, federal and hornady brass is shit and always has been but they aren’t the only players in the game. I took 5 random pieces of Starline brass and ran them 10 times without even annealing. Surprisingly no necks split and more importantly the primer pockets were still tight. I’m confident they’d go twice that and still hold primers.
Which .224 Valkyrie chamber is the one that nothing is wrong with?
One reamer grinder screwed things up. That explains a lot of the problems I have heard of.
If you get a good chamber, it's a .224 Valkyrie, it needs a really fast twist, good bullet choices are few and the 6.5 Creedmoor comparisons are a bit optimistic, the same way that 6.5 Grendle comparisons to .308 are a bit optimistic.
If your only concern is punching paper at 1,200 yards with an AR15, it will do that about as well as can be expected.
If you want to hunt, it's probably an ok varmint round, not much else.
One reamer grinder screwed things up. That explains a lot of the problems I have heard of.
If you get a good chamber, it's a .224 Valkyrie, it needs a really fast twist, good bullet choices are few and the 6.5 Creedmoor comparisons are a bit optimistic, the same way that 6.5 Grendle comparisons to .308 are a bit optimistic.
If your only concern is punching paper at 1,200 yards with an AR15, it will do that about as well as can be expected.
If you want to hunt, it's probably an ok varmint round, not much else.
Call and ask Paul Craddock. He has it figured out and is using a chamber that just works. He's not the only one, but he is one that I can personally vouch for that has it right.
Run the ballistics - the 6.5 has better energy retention (cross sectional density) and lower wind deflection. Both of those issue stack up after 400 m.
224 v may have less recoil but 6.5 Grendel is not heavy. For me, the 6.5 is the way to go if you ever intend to do more than punch paper. 224 v has a sex appeal as a papper puncher and a dog -town smasher, but at range the wider 6.5 body has better ballistics, better accuracy.
224 v may have less recoil but 6.5 Grendel is not heavy. For me, the 6.5 is the way to go if you ever intend to do more than punch paper. 224 v has a sex appeal as a papper puncher and a dog -town smasher, but at range the wider 6.5 body has better ballistics, better accuracy.
I have both... 2 Valkyries, a 18 and 22" and 3 6.5 grendels 16, 18 and 20".
There is no denying if you want energy to kill big game, get the grendel.
The downside to a grendel is it costs more to feed. It's almost the same as shooting my creedmoor but with a little bit of savings on powder. Another downside is loading more then 10-12 rounds in a mag, any brand mag, and you will start to have occasionally feed problems.
If you buy a quality barrel you will get great accuracy with either caliber. Buy a standard fare barrel and expect a mixed bag with either.
The downside to the valkyrie:
Federal brass sucks, just like it sucks for 308. It's soft and you can expect the primer pockets to give quickly. How quickly depends on your pressure but even staying with in mid range load data and you'll notice a change on your first firing. Starline is a lot better but don't expect to run loads that are hotter than published data without consequences.
In my experience with both calibers and the loads that preform best, the valkyrie will shoot flatter with less wind drift. That said, wind drift is what really matters most for long range and the difference between the two is not huge. A good comparison would be the Grendel will give you AR-308 ballistics and the Valkyrie will give you high performance bolt rifle 308 ballistics. Your basically shooting the same B.C. numbers, just that the valkyrie gives you an extra 150-250fps advantage.
The valkyrie does not have the feeding problems the grendel will when your loading mags to full capacity.
Hopefully this all makes sense, if it doesn't I'll correct it when I'm not pecking away text on my phone in a hotel room returning from a match.
There is no denying if you want energy to kill big game, get the grendel.
The downside to a grendel is it costs more to feed. It's almost the same as shooting my creedmoor but with a little bit of savings on powder. Another downside is loading more then 10-12 rounds in a mag, any brand mag, and you will start to have occasionally feed problems.
If you buy a quality barrel you will get great accuracy with either caliber. Buy a standard fare barrel and expect a mixed bag with either.
The downside to the valkyrie:
Federal brass sucks, just like it sucks for 308. It's soft and you can expect the primer pockets to give quickly. How quickly depends on your pressure but even staying with in mid range load data and you'll notice a change on your first firing. Starline is a lot better but don't expect to run loads that are hotter than published data without consequences.
In my experience with both calibers and the loads that preform best, the valkyrie will shoot flatter with less wind drift. That said, wind drift is what really matters most for long range and the difference between the two is not huge. A good comparison would be the Grendel will give you AR-308 ballistics and the Valkyrie will give you high performance bolt rifle 308 ballistics. Your basically shooting the same B.C. numbers, just that the valkyrie gives you an extra 150-250fps advantage.
The valkyrie does not have the feeding problems the grendel will when your loading mags to full capacity.
Hopefully this all makes sense, if it doesn't I'll correct it when I'm not pecking away text on my phone in a hotel room returning from a match.
They're few and far between, but there are good videos out there on the 224 Valkyrie.
I just got my 22" Valkyrie upper from Craddock a few weeks ago. I've zero'd it and shot some groups with it. It's a solid SUB-MOA to 1/2 moa rifle with ammo from the cheap 75 grain to 88 ELD match. If you want one now, go with a reputable smith for the upper (Like Craddock) or a quality barrel. There are plenty out there. I cannot speak for the Savage MSR, but most complaining about issues bought PSA or the likes. IDK why a $350 upper won't shoot tiny groups...
I just got my 22" Valkyrie upper from Craddock a few weeks ago. I've zero'd it and shot some groups with it. It's a solid SUB-MOA to 1/2 moa rifle with ammo from the cheap 75 grain to 88 ELD match. If you want one now, go with a reputable smith for the upper (Like Craddock) or a quality barrel. There are plenty out there. I cannot speak for the Savage MSR, but most complaining about issues bought PSA or the likes. IDK why a $350 upper won't shoot tiny groups...
I decided to go with the 224. I talked to Paul Craddock awhile today and he has me sold! I think the key to the 224 is having a good smith chamber it and handloading. I reload anyway so it is not a big deal to me. I think the factory ammo is lacking for the 224 right now. I went with a 20 inch Criterion barrel. He is getting me one together. I will have to shoot some factory at first and gather all the things for some reloads and the time!!
Solid choice with Craddock! You will be surprised with the factory ammo. Again, lots complaining about inaccuracy, but those same people also bought cheaper uppers. The 88 Grain ELD-M ammo is very accurate, as is the cheap 75 grain American. Hard to beat for price if you just want to plink.
Excellent comment.
Valkyrie and Grendel have similar BC +/- .55 in a 120 +/- grain Grendel and a 90 grain Valkyrie. Because they have similar case capacity (35 vs 34.5), the Valkyrie is going to fly faster and confer the ballistic advantages above.
Going to a 90g in a Grendel doesn't help because the BC falls to the .30s. I haven looked into putting a heavie r bulllet in Valkyrie.
This is the meaning behind "the load that performs best" and why you can't always try and force an "apples to apples" comparison - eg V vs G in 18", with 90 grain bullets. Rather, it is more about what's the highest BC bullet in the chamber and how, through cartridge construction and barrel length, can it be made to go thto fastest. Compare the best of each platform.
You may want to try the 80ELD. If you can get the 80 up to 3000fps like some are you may find less drop and drift than using slower heavier bullets especially at 800yds. Also the new 83gr Berger is coming out with may change things.
Grendel all the way lol flat shooting and still has some ass to take game..but I know very little about the 224V but seems has great protenal maybe faster twist bbls with heavier pills? All in due time.
