.224 Valkyrie

#51
My favorite little action is the CZ527 mini mauser!

I just measured the inside of the mag and it came out to 2.332", a 2.320" OACL would work I think for the handloader, so a bit more latitude than an AR mag. Now if CZ would just come out with some 10 round mags for the 224V and sell us some 527's in this cartridge! I'm thinking 2850 fps with 90's out of a 24" is doable. The reason I say that is I tested a cartridge that is basically the same thing as the Valkyrie in a AR that was going that speed.
 
#52
My 223 AI does 3097fps with the 80gr SMK and 2927fps with the 90gr VLD. Seems about the same as what the Valkyrie is touting. But I have it in the simple 223 bolt face and cheap brass, that I have bucket loads of.

And this is my trainer, so fireforming is a non issue. I do barricade practice on a 2 moa target at 200 yards with inexpensive 55gr FMJ's and I have fireformed brass coming out my ears.

I suppose there will be people wanting this in a bolt gun. Folks can shoot what they want. But I think a 223 AI is far simpler, and less expensive with multitudes of brass availability. The Valkyrie would only appeal to me in the AR platform, where I think it would really shine. But I wont be trading in my Grendel for it. And I would probably still rather have a 6mm LBC running 105gr pills at 2900fps.
 
#53
Birddog6424 said:
My 223 AI does 3097fps with the 80gr SMK and 2927fps with the 90gr VLD. Seems about the same as what the Valkyrie is touting. But I have it in the simple 223 bolt face and cheap brass, that I have bucket loads of.

And this is my trainer, so fireforming is a non issue. I do barricade practice on a 2 moa target at 200 yards with inexpensive 55gr FMJ's and I have fireformed brass coming out my ears.

I suppose there will be people wanting this in a bolt gun. Folks can shoot what they want. But I think a 223 AI is far simpler, and less expensive with multitudes of brass availability. The Valkyrie would only appeal to me in the AR platform, where I think it would really shine. But I wont be trading in my Grendel for it. And I would probably still rather have a 6mm LBC running 105gr pills at 2900fps.
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How long is your barrel and is it a 7 twist? Temp sensitive powder double based powder? I'm trying to see how you get such high fps at normal pressures or without ruining brass in a couple firings with high pressures.

I had a 6mmART40 in a 26" AR and 105's were too hot at 2875 fps with h4985, had to slow it down. I don't see how one could get 2900 out of the 6mmAR case with a 105 unless he had a 30" barrel???

I'd rather not fireform like I do with my FatRat and my other wildcats. I just want to shoot factory brass ready to go.

As it is right now we don't have a handle on how fast we can push the V224 in a bolt rifle at a longer OACL with a longer barrel??? That I know of anyway. Stands to reason if the brass is decently strong we should get higher speeds than 223AI, right?!
 
#54
steve123 said:
How long is your barrel and is it a 7 twist? Temp sensitive powder double based powder? I'm trying to see how you get such high fps at normal pressures or without ruining brass in a couple firings with high pressures.

I had a 6mmART40 in a 26" AR and 105's were too hot at 2875 fps with h4985, had to slow it down. I don't see how one could get 2900 out of the 6mmAR case with a 105 unless he had a 30" barrel???

I'd rather not fireform like I do with my FatRat and my other wildcats. I just want to shoot factory brass ready to go.

As it is right now we don't have a handle on how fast we can push the V224 in a bolt rifle at a longer OACL with a longer barrel??? That I know of anyway. Stands to reason if the brass is decently strong we should get higher speeds than 223AI, right?!
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This is my trainer, so I built it to match the ergonomics of my 6mm Creedmoor comp gun. So it's an XLR chassis with a 28" Heavy Palma barrel. It's a 1/7" twist Black Hole Weaponry barrel, so it runs a little faster than the average button or cut rifled barrel. I don't really shoot the 90gr bullets much, I like the 80gr SMK best. But if I push it I can get the SMK close to 3200fps before I hit pressure using XBR8208. 28 inches is a lot of tube. But I like the load it's at. It's not over-pressured or hard on the brass at all. I essentially see zero pressure signs.

My friends 6LBC is a 24" BHW barrel. I remember he was running 90gr Bergers over 3000fps when we shot the Ironman PRS Gas Gun match last year. I'm not certain what powder that was, but I want to say it was also 8208. He definitely had some pressure issues in load development, and when he tried those rounds with his can, he blew primers. He just responded to my text and told me he was at 2815fps with 105gr RDF's. So I was inflated by 85fps.

I imagine the Valkyrie will perform pretty well. You're right, it's hard to say what folks will come up with at this point. But their current selling points of going sub at 1300 yards and X amount of velocity with 80 and 90gr bullets, I'm already meeting or exceeding those numbers with my 223 Ackley. And all I did was buy a cheap Rem 700, slap a new barrel on it (a pre-chambered Remage barrel that required no gunsmithing), and use the brass that I already had a couple 5 gallon buckets of for my AR15's.
 
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#55
Birddog6424 said:
This is my trainer, so I built it to match the ergonomics of my 6mm Creedmoor comp gun. So it's an XLR chassis with a 28" Heavy Palma barrel. It's a 1/7" twist Black Hole Weaponry barrel, so it runs a little faster than the average button or cut rifled barrel. I don't really shoot the 90gr bullets much, I like the 80gr SMK best. But if I push it I can get the SMK close to 3200fps before I hit pressure using XBR8208. 28 inches is a lot of tube. But I like the load it's at. It's not over-pressured or hard on the brass at all. I essentially see zero pressure signs.

My friends 6LBC is a 24" BHW barrel. I remember he was running 90gr Bergers over 3000fps when we shot the Ironman PRS Gas Gun match last year. I'm not certain what powder that was, but I want to say it was also 8208. He definitely had some pressure issues in load development, and when he tried those rounds with his can, he blew primers. He just responded to my text and told me he was at 2815fps with 105gr RDF's. So I was inflated by 85fps.

I imagine the Valkyrie will perform pretty well. You're right, it's hard to say what folks will come up with at this point. But their current selling points of going sub at 1300 yards and X amount of velocity with 80 and 90gr bullets, I'm already meeting or exceeding those numbers with my 223 Ackley. And all I did was buy a cheap Rem 700, slap a new barrel on it (a pre-chambered Remage barrel that required no gunsmithing), and use the brass that I already had a couple 5 gallon buckets of for my AR15's.
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I have BHW barrel in my Grendel and I get a little extra velocity out of it, but 2900fps out of 223AI with a 90gr bullet is pretty remarkable. I thought that 223AI only gave you a couple of extra grains of H2O capacity? Honestly, I have a hard time imagining you are getting that much velocity without a fair bit of extra pressure.

Still, it is what it is. You clearly havn't blown yourself up, so it must be working alright.

I once had a rifle blow up in my hands, so I err on the side of caution and leave a lot of margin for error. I absolutely did not enjoy the experience.

ILya
 
#56
The more we talk about it the more i want to yank my 5.56 barrel out of my SPR and sell it and the carrier, and grab a .224 Valkryie barrel. Would make a little more sense to have all that weight compared to my carbine for a larger cartridge.
 
#57
5RWill said:
The more we talk about it the more i want to yank my 5.56 barrel out of my SPR and sell it and the carrier, and grab a .224 Valkryie barrel. Would make a little more sense to have all that weight compared to my carbine for a larger cartridge.
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I really like the sounds of this and I think I'm going to build or buy an upper for mine. I think this is going to be popular in an AR.
 
#58
Birddog6424 said:
This is my trainer, so I built it to match the ergonomics of my 6mm Creedmoor comp gun. So it's an XLR chassis with a 28" Heavy Palma barrel. It's a 1/7" twist Black Hole Weaponry barrel, so it runs a little faster than the average button or cut rifled barrel. .
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So, you're comparing velocities between a 20" barrel and a 28" barrel.
I'm reasonably certain that if you added another 8" to the .224 barrel, velocities would go up.
 
#60
I think some people are forgetting that most people running .223 AI can load long. 2.5" long mag fed. Running a micro action with the .223V the 2 are most likely fairly even.
 
#61
koshkin said:
I have BHW barrel in my Grendel and I get a little extra velocity out of it, but 2900fps out of 223AI with a 90gr bullet is pretty remarkable. I thought that 223AI only gave you a couple of extra grains of H2O capacity? Honestly, I have a hard time imagining you are getting that much velocity without a fair bit of extra pressure.

Still, it is what it is. You clearly havn't blown yourself up, so it must be working alright.

I once had a rifle blow up in my hands, so I err on the side of caution and leave a lot of margin for error. I absolutely did not enjoy the experience.

ILya
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Haha, still have both eyeballs and all my fingers ;)

I think you're right, you gain about 2.5grs capacity by going AI. I'm trying to find my chrono data on the 90gr, but I've graduated from a Caldwell to a Magnetospeed. So they are in different spots. But here is the data on my 80gr SMK's. I think that says 3099fps average under that dust. That's 25.4grs 8208 XBR loaded long in a 223 Accurate mag with the front removed and shaved out.

At my DA that's 7.2 mils at 1k and sub at 1285.

[IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"https:\/\/i.imgur.com\/HBdye9r.jpg"}[/IMG2]
 
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#62
My two current precision bolt rifles are pigs so for me I want a medium weight rifle this time, maybe 11-12 lbs all up. Right now I'm not dead set on which action yet. Half the fun is weighing all the options and building the rifle in the mind first so I I'll keep thinking about the whole list.

Well BD, you have a fast barrel for sure, even at 28". I hope mine will be but I'm going to have to settle for the 24" region for the sake of handiness since my intent with 224V will be as an all arounder. Maybe in the near future someone will come out with a 10 round mag that takes a 2.5" length for the 224V.
 
#64
The Valkyrie sure looks promising for the folks that like to play with the new stuff Steve. It certainly makes my 6.5 Grendel look questionable as my funnsy lightweight distance plinker. The Valkyrie has it beat for ringing steel. I'm going to keep an eye on it to see who comes out with a nice AR15 upper. My 20" Odin Works Grendel gets 2570fps with Hornady 123gr SST's, and needs 10.9 mils at 1k. It goes sub at 1090. I think the Valkyrie kinda blows that out of the water.
 
#65
Birddog6424 said:
The Valkyrie sure looks promising for the folks that like to play with the new stuff Steve. It certainly makes my 6.5 Grendel look questionable as my funnsy lightweight distance plinker. The Valkyrie has it beat for ringing steel. I'm going to keep an eye on it to see who comes out with a nice AR15 upper. My 20" Odin Works Grendel gets 2570fps with Hornady 123gr SST's, and needs 10.9 mils at 1k. It goes sub at 1090. I think the Valkyrie kinda blows that out of the water.
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My 18" Grendel gets about 2530fps with Hornady factory ammo, so it is about in line with what you get out of the 20" barrel. I am close to sea level to it goes subsonic right around $1k or just after if I end just a bit higher in altitude. That is really pretty nice for a comparative pipsqueek of a cartridge. It is a little more accurate with the 123gr SMK though and it stays tighter with distance.

I never really push pressures with it, since I am very particular about avoiding this sort of thing:
 

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#66
koshkin said:
My 18" Grendel gets about 2530fps with Hornady factory ammo, so it is about in line with what you get out of the 20" barrel. I am close to sea level to it goes subsonic right around $1k or just after if I end just a bit higher in altitude. That is really pretty nice for a comparative pipsqueek of a cartridge. It is a little more accurate with the 123gr SMK though and it stays tighter with distance.

I never really push pressures with it, since I am very particular about avoiding this sort of thing:
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Yeh, that's great stuff.

I love my Grendel. It's "The Little Engine That Could"...

If Sierra releases that bullet in a pointed version like the 6mm 110gr and 223 80gr, I'll be all over it.
 
#67
-=boone=- said:
Let’s be honest. If Remington added this to their SPS magpul tactical line up with a 24” barrel. It would sell pretty easy.
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To be honest, if this was another Remington product, they'd let it die like the .260 and 6.8, and even further back the .280 that does everything a .270 ever thought of and more.
 
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#68
Mike_in_FL said:
To be honest, if this was another Remington product, they'd let it die like the .260 and 6.8, and even further back the .280 that does everything a .270 ever thought of and more.
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I have a lot of hate for Remington, no doubt. However, their magpul series of tactical rifles are supporting the .260 & 6.5CM. With the recent purge of Remington highers one can only hope they straighten themselves out.

 
#69
koshkin said:
My 18" Grendel gets about 2530fps with Hornady factory ammo, so it is about in line with what you get out of the 20" barrel. I am close to sea level to it goes subsonic right around $1k or just after if I end just a bit higher in altitude. That is really pretty nice for a comparative pipsqueek of a cartridge. It is a little more accurate with the 123gr SMK though and it stays tighter with distance.

I never really push pressures with it, since I am very particular about avoiding this sort of thing:
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That's pretty impressive. I was just looking at 6.5 Grendel ballistics from hornady and saw they were claiming 2580 with a 24" barrel over 6" of barrel loss you only lost 50fps? Is this a semi or bolt? I didn't realize the cartridge was that efficient. I thought it needed the extra barrel to really see any benefit out of the heavies.
 
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#70
5RWill said:
That's pretty impressive. I was just looking at 6.5 Grendel ballistics from hornady and saw they were claiming 2580 with a 24" barrel over 6" of barrel loss you only lost 50fps? Is this a semi or bolt? I didn't realize the cartridge was that efficient. I thought it needed the extra barrel to really see any benefit out of the heavies.
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Individual barrels may vary. My Lilja 20" barrel only sent factory Hornady at 2450.
 
#72
5RWill said:
That's pretty impressive. I was just looking at 6.5 Grendel ballistics from hornady and saw they were claiming 2580 with a 24" barrel over 6" of barrel loss you only lost 50fps? Is this a semi or bolt? I didn't realize the cartridge was that efficient. I thought it needed the extra barrel to really see any benefit out of the heavies.
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I see a lot of guys running the 22 and 24" barrels on the Grendel, but I personally believe the 18 and 20" are ideal for this cartridge. It is a solid round at 2530 to 2600fps.

I don't even see many guys with the longer barrels getting over 2600. It just seems to be one of those rounds with diminishing returns from added barrel length.

my initial load development with CFE223 was about 50fps slower, and surprisingly, not as accurate. I had a lot of .6 to .8 moa groups. A friend suggested 8208XBR, and I hit the Sweet spot. Better velocity and consistent .5 or better groups.

The Grendel is just one of those rounds that puts a smile on my face every time that tiny little round rings the steel at 1000 yards.
 
#73
5RWill said:
That's pretty impressive. I was just looking at 6.5 Grendel ballistics from hornady and saw they were claiming 2580 with a 24" barrel over 6" of barrel loss you only lost 50fps? Is this a semi or bolt? I didn't realize the cartridge was that efficient. I thought it needed the extra barrel to really see any benefit out of the heavies.
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Grendel is pretty efficient, but I think I also have a fairly fast barrel (polygonal rifling). Long barrels really give you a benefit with overbore cartridges, which the Grendel is not. High expansion ratio cartridges really do well with moderate barrel length. That having been said, I am getting more velocity out of Hornady factory loads than I do with my handloads, so either they use some pwoder I do not have access to, or I am too conservative with my loads.

This is a direct impingement AR. The beauty of the Grendel, to me, is that I can have a very capable platform that is compact and reasonably light. Grendel's external ballistics are very similar to a 308, but a small frame AR is much easier for me to shoot well. My LR-308 has to be really "manhandled" for lack of a better term, while the AR-15 is much more docile in terms of how it moves when I pull the trigger. LR-308 really wants to twist on you a lot more and there is a lot more mass moving around.

I have experimented with 107/108 grain bullets, 120gr and 123gr. I know other people have had reasonably success with 140/144 as well, but those really get into the case and limit powder capacity. I also have seen people use 85gr bullets for varminting.

Inside 500 yards or so, 107s really do nicely, but for logner distances, I think 123gr is the best compromise for the Grendel.

I remember people suggesting the the versatility of the Grendel would make it a great general purpose round for the military: 107gr for general issue, 123gr for DMR/.precision and 144gr for machine gun use.

As I think about 224 Valkyrie or 224AR, I can't help but wonder what it will do for the popularity of many other intermediate AR cartridges. If Federal keeps prices low and the velocities are as promised, for people who do not hunt, 224 Valkyrie can becomes the AR cartridge for distance.

ILya
 
#74
koshkin said:
Grendel is pretty efficient, but I think I also have a fairly fast barrel (polygonal rifling). Long barrels really give you a benefit with overbore cartridges, which the Grendel is not. High expansion ratio cartridges really do well with moderate barrel length. That having been said, I am getting more velocity out of Hornady factory loads than I do with my handloads, so either they use some pwoder I do not have access to, or I am too conservative with my loads.

This is a direct impingement AR. The beauty of the Grendel, to me, is that I can have a very capable platform that is compact and reasonably light. Grendel's external ballistics are very similar to a 308, but a small frame AR is much easier for me to shoot well. My LR-308 has to be really "manhandled" for lack of a better term, while the AR-15 is much more docile in terms of how it moves when I pull the trigger. LR-308 really wants to twist on you a lot more and there is a lot more mass moving around.

I have experimented with 107/108 grain bullets, 120gr and 123gr. I know other people have had reasonably success with 140/144 as well, but those really get into the case and limit powder capacity. I also have seen people use 85gr bullets for varminting.

Inside 500 yards or so, 107s really do nicely, but for logner distances, I think 123gr is the best compromise for the Grendel.

I remember people suggesting the the versatility of the Grendel would make it a great general purpose round for the military: 107gr for general issue, 123gr for DMR/.precision and 144gr for machine gun use.

As I think about 224 Valkyrie or 224AR, I can't help but wonder what it will do for the popularity of many other intermediate AR cartridges. If Federal keeps prices low and the velocities are as promised, for people who do not hunt, 224 Valkyrie can becomes the AR cartridge for distance.

ILya
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I see, that was my misinterpretation of the Grendel then. I didn't necessarily think it had a high overbore ratio, just figured without the case capacity of it's larger 6.5 cousins it would need the extra barrel length in a semi (considering the reduction) to maintain. 2500-2600 out of 123s in an 18"/20" sort of renders the Valkryie not quite as much of a feat as i originally thought. Don't get me wrong i still would probably lean toward it over a 6.5 grendel because while i understand the 6.5 grendels purpose in an AR15 we have two 6.5x47s, a 260, and a 6.5 SAUM now. I just honestly wouldn't trade those ballistics for semi-auto capability. I still like the round though and also agree on it being an ideal military round.

I also completely agree with your assessment of the AR10 it's why the Valkryie interest me and i just don't have any intention of building an AR15 platform over 20" Hell i really don't want 20", 18" is about my limit for the form factor when you start throwing cans in the mix. My 18" SPR, loaded is probably 10~11lbs give or take, so i can imagine a large frame being worse.

Given the backing by federal and some big name players in the high end AR market, i'd say the Valkryie will be here to stay. I also could see 3-gunners eating it up. Grendel never really seemed to take off when Bill introduced it. For a long time it was exorbitantly expensive to run as well.

I can't find any velocity claims for federals ammo other than the 90gr SMK, and even then didn't see what barrel length they were at. If they can maintain 2700 out of a 20" barrel or 2600 out of an 18" it would be well worth it IMHO to swap barrels, BCG, and mags on my SPR.

 
#75
My 6.5 Grendel with a medium weight 18" barrel weighs in a hair over 7lbs, thanks to a carbon fiber Lancer handguard and fairly lightweight stock. Going forward, I will likely be using an even lighter Brigand Arms CF handguard (I've got one on a different AR and I am extremely impressed).

With this is a guideline, I bet I can build a 7lbs precision AR in 22 Valkyrie that will keep a 90gr bullet supersonic beyond 1000yards. That's kinda cool and will come in very useful if my kids want to get into this. That would be a rifle light enough for them to handle and accurate enough for them to reach way out there. I can comfortably keep a scope and mount combination under two pounds.

Unless I move, I can't have a supressor, but even with suppressor, it would only be a pound more, so with a can you are right around 10lbs in a 1000 yard capable gun.

ILya
 
#78
5RWill said:
A light recoiling 22 cal that is infinitely better than .223 at extended range in the wind...
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Hell no. Do you even 3 gun bro?
I ran some numbers quick against my mild 75gr load, I gave the 224V 2600fps for the 90smk although that might be generous for the 14.5"-18" barrels used in 3 gun. At 500yds (about as far as you're likely to see, inside 200 is way more likely) in a 10mph wind the 224V has 2" more drop and 10" less drift. Not super significant but when you remember that at 500 in a 3 gun match you're likely shooting a decent sized plate from an awkward position your little ballistic advantage is negated by fundamentals being way more important. Now remember that you might lose 200 pieces of 224V brass in one match. And for every 1 shot on a target past 150 yards you're likely shooting 300 shots on paper inside 100 yards. Will 40+ round magazines ever be available for the 224V? Without that it's a non starter. Many 3 gunners are loading 55gr bullets below 2600fps for hosing, will one gun be able to shoot a 90gr bullet pushed hard and still function on a bunny fart load in the same stage?
There's way too much going against the 224V in a game where exterior ballistics are the least important aspect.
 
#79
TonyTheTiger said:
Hell no. Do you even 3 gun bro?
I ran some numbers quick against my mild 75gr load, I gave the 224V 2600fps for the 90smk although that might be generous for the 14.5"-18" barrels used in 3 gun. At 500yds (about as far as you're likely to see, inside 200 is way more likely) in a 10mph wind the 224V has 2" more drop and 10" less drift. Not super significant but when you remember that at 500 in a 3 gun match you're likely shooting a decent sized plate from an awkward position your little ballistic advantage is negated by fundamentals being way more important. Now remember that you might lose 200 pieces of 224V brass in one match. And for every 1 shot on a target past 150 yards you're likely shooting 300 shots on paper inside 100 yards. Will 40+ round magazines ever be available for the 224V? Without that it's a non starter. Many 3 gunners are loading 55gr bullets below 2600fps for hosing, will one gun be able to shoot a 90gr bullet pushed hard and still function on a bunny fart load in the same stage?
There's way too much going against the 224V in a game where exterior ballistics are the least important aspect.
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I was thinking specifically about a texas match my friend shot where they went to 600 and i think a little beyond, which is why i said extended range. Admittedly i don't shoot 3-gun but the idea of something more feasible than .223 for long distance shots makes sense to me. Cost wise it's as you say it's not even comparable. I thought 3-gun was starting to extend their ranges some also, wasn't there a semi-auto long range 3-gun or something like that? Not the PRS gas series it was something else. I digress.

Back on topic, has anyone seen any reported velocities of anything other than the 90gr SMK?
 
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#80
5RWill said:
I thought 3-gun was starting to extend their ranges some also, wasn't there a semi-auto long range 3-gun or something like that? Not the PRS gas series it was something else
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3 Gun Nation was talking about branching out into DMR type matches and there's definitely a few outlaw matches that put more emphasis on longer ranges but it's still pretty rare, and 3GN is dying anyways. I get what your saying but the 224V would be a costly disadvantage in 99% of 3 gun shooting and only a moderate advantage for the 1% or less that remains. I don't see it happening.
The 224V would be awesome for DMR matches for people that shoot factory ammo though. But no mattwr how many different ways I run the numbers a 22 Grendel beats it every time, with the caveat that you have to reload of course.
 
#81
TonyTheTiger said:
3 Gun Nation was talking about branching out into DMR type matches and there's definitely a few outlaw matches that put more emphasis on longer ranges but it's still pretty rare, and 3GN is dying anyways. I get what your saying but the 224V would be a costly disadvantage in 99% of 3 gun shooting and only a moderate advantage for the 1% or less that remains. I don't see it happening.
The 224V would be awesome for DMR matches for people that shoot factory ammo though. But no mattwr how many different ways I run the numbers a 22 Grendel beats it every time, with the caveat that you have to reload of course.
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Oh i agree, when i made my statement earlier i didn't even factor in cost, was thinking only from a ballistic standpoint. It's been a long while since i ran USPSA and that ate up my funds. I forget how much ammo they burn through. Then your mention of losing brass i had forgotten about that as well. Idk what brass cost obviously but i can't see it being 5.56 cheap. I stroke out when i lose a piece of 6.5x47 at a match lol.
 
#82
Still somewhat off topic: with all the new AR specific cartridges coming out lately, what are the odds someone will finally standardize the Grendel variants? They seem at least as popular as the 22-6.8 that morphed into the 22 Nosler and now the new 224V variant of almost the same thing.
 
#86
TonyTheTiger said:
Because I have a bunch of Grendel brass and mags and bolts already! How does the 22PPC do with heavys? I can only find data in my manuals for light bullets.
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Grendel is a somewhat blown out compared to the PPC, so it should be similar enough. However, I think that the Grendel case has some other differences though, like thicker brass walls in a few key places

ILya
 
#87
Buddy shot one today. 18" barrel with federal factory 90gr SMK 2580~2600 It's on the left, the right is a dasher.
 

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#92
5RWill said:
Buddy shot one today. 18" barrel with federal factory 90gr SMK 2580~2600 It's on the left, the right is a dasher.
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That seems a little more down to earth. That's only 25fps faster than my Grendel. Using local environmental data it stays supersonic an extra 15 yards over my 123gr Hornady SST. So where is the advertised 2700fps? Which lead my to using my Google-Fu to finally figure out where that 2700fps figure came from?

I finally found this article stating the test barrel was a 24" 1/7" twist barrel. 6th paragraph down.

https://www.ammoland.com/2017/10/224-valkyrie-long-range-shooting/#axzz4z0tHp9KF

So if we're talking 24" barrel here it does change the comparison statistics somewhat. I have seen a lot of 24" barrel data posted up from various Grendel forums where they are getting 2650fps and a little north thereof. That's really not that much difference out there. Using local DA of 2343 and a 48.2 degree day, 9mph wind from 9 o'clock, they are only 40 yards apart in supersonic flight. The 123gr SST Grendel at 2650fps goes sub at 1140 yards, the 90gr SMK Valkyrie at 1180.

Pretty interesting.
 
#93
Birddog6424 said:
The 123gr SST Grendel at 2650fps goes sub at 1140 yards, the 90gr SMK Valkyrie at 1180.

Pretty interesting.
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Way to use data and facts to take the wind out of the sails of yet another 'greatest AR cartridge ever!'
It's the same story with the Nosler, it sounds good till you start looking into the numbers or at the case specs.
 
#94
Birddog6424 said:
That seems a little more down to earth. That's only 25fps faster than my Grendel. Using local environmental data it stays supersonic an extra 15 yards over my 123gr Hornady SST. So where is the advertised 2700fps? Which lead my to using my Google-Fu to finally figure out where that 2700fps figure came from?

I finally found this article stating the test barrel was a 24" 1/7" twist barrel. 6th paragraph down.

https://www.ammoland.com/2017/10/224-valkyrie-long-range-shooting/#axzz4z0tHp9KF

So if we're talking 24" barrel here it does change the comparison statistics somewhat. I have seen a lot of 24" barrel data posted up from various Grendel forums where they are getting 2650fps and a little north thereof. That's really not that much difference out there. Using local DA of 2343 and a 48.2 degree day, 9mph wind from 9 o'clock, they are only 40 yards apart in supersonic flight. The 123gr SST Grendel at 2650fps goes sub at 1140 yards, the 90gr SMK Valkyrie at 1180.

Pretty interesting.
Click to expand...

I think the 2700 is from no shorter than 20/22" idk though, maybe it was a misprint. Still 2600 out of an 18" barrel with factory loads is very applicable to me. Might be able to squeeze a little more with reloading. Not to mention downsizing to say a 77gr SMK or 73gr ELD-M and getting near 2800fps.

I don't think anyone's doubting the grendel per say. I just think for something below 20" the valkryie makes more sense. Where i can keep a 90gr SMK at reasonable speeds rather than having to drop BC in the grendel (below 120) to maintain. Though this is inexperience with the grendel as many of you inform me you're getting 2500-2600 with an 18" 6.5 grendel so idk. I still don't dislike the cartridge though. More choice is never a bad thing and 22-250-esque ballistics in an AR15 platform is a great idea.
 
#95
I absolutely agree with you Will. I think the performance of the Valkyrie looks great. I bet it will be a damn fun round on the AR platform.

The only thing that has caused me to go tumbling down the rabbit hole on this thread is that it so clearly claims to be such a vast improvement over some popular existing cartridges. So I have been trying to find what makes it so much better. I certainly like big performance in small packages, I love my 223 Ackley with 80gr pills, my Grendel, and 6mm Creedmoor. If I didn't already own a Grendel I would be super tempted to give this one a go. But they are pretty close to each other in performance. I think you get a hair more range from the Valkyrie, but being a hunter, I personally like the terminal ballistics of the 123gr SST over anything in the 80 or 90gr weight range. That's purely personal opinion based on what I hunt. I don't shoot many varmints, except in self-defense ;)
 
#97
5RWill said:
I think the 2700 is from no shorter than 20/22" idk though, maybe it was a misprint. Still 2600 out of an 18" barrel with factory loads is very applicable to me. Might be able to squeeze a little more with reloading. Not to mention downsizing to say a 77gr SMK or 73gr ELD-M and getting near 2800fps.

I don't think anyone's doubting the grendel per say. I just think for something below 20" the valkryie makes more sense. Where i can keep a 90gr SMK at reasonable speeds rather than having to drop BC in the grendel (below 120) to maintain. Though this is inexperience with the grendel as many of you inform me you're getting 2500-2600 with an 18" 6.5 grendel so idk. I still don't dislike the cartridge though. More choice is never a bad thing and 22-250-esque ballistics in an AR15 platform is a great idea.
Click to expand...

I would expect it to shoot the 75gr eld-m bullets at around 3000-3100 without going crazy on pressure in an 18-20" gun.

I can get 2800 out of a 18" 223 wylde gas gun with the 75-77 gr AR bullets at mag length and stay below pressure.

I am just waiting to see if I can get something like a WOA or other quality barrel for this in 20".
 
#98
I like the 224V from the less recoil way of looking at it. It's just a varmint and steel cartridge to me and am hoping in a bolt rifle with reloads I can get higher FPS than advertised.

I also see some even higher BC bullets coming out next year. Just speculating but can you imagine a .55 BC 85 grainer or a .6 BC 95 grainer!

Might be a sweet little case for wildcatting too. 6-224V AI. 110's at 2800 fps???

I hope the brass is strong, that could be a big fail if it's like the 22 douchenosler.
 
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