I have a 1:7 twist 16" barrel, but I see that dedicated .22lr uppers have a 1:16 twist barrel. Can I reliably shoot .22lr in my AR15 with a CMMG conversion bolt?
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.22lr conversion on an AR15
- Thread starter sentry1
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Re: .22lr conversion on an AR15
A 1-7 may be too much for tipical 40 grain 22 ammo (subjective statment as I have never tried or heard of this combo).There is 60 grain 22 ammo from Aguila that I have tried that works ok in my 1-9. It should be just as good in your 1-7 twist. You could give that a run and see how it works
A 1-7 may be too much for tipical 40 grain 22 ammo (subjective statment as I have never tried or heard of this combo).There is 60 grain 22 ammo from Aguila that I have tried that works ok in my 1-9. It should be just as good in your 1-7 twist. You could give that a run and see how it works
Re: .22lr conversion on an AR15
Sentry1,
Rimfire and centerfire .22 caliber barrels are different. Not just in twist rates (which may tbe the same in some instances) but in diameter. Rimfire barrels run about .002" smaller than centerfire barrels, .222" as compared to .224" respectively. The whole idea behind the dedicated rimfire conversions is to get a proper barrel in place, both in terms of diameter and twist rate.
The drop in conversions to allow rimfire ammo to be used in a centerfire 5.56mm or 223 Rem. upper have been around forever. They've always been minute of tin can, at best. They served to allow a person to become familiar with the AR platform at a reasonable cost, but aren't really good for a whole lot more than this. The dedicated rimfire uppers can be extremely good shooters, on par with even high quality match target rifles if they're built properly. Yes, the conversions can be used, and most are fairly reliable. Just don't expect any real accuracy from them. For that, you need a dedicated upper.
Sentry1,
Rimfire and centerfire .22 caliber barrels are different. Not just in twist rates (which may tbe the same in some instances) but in diameter. Rimfire barrels run about .002" smaller than centerfire barrels, .222" as compared to .224" respectively. The whole idea behind the dedicated rimfire conversions is to get a proper barrel in place, both in terms of diameter and twist rate.
The drop in conversions to allow rimfire ammo to be used in a centerfire 5.56mm or 223 Rem. upper have been around forever. They've always been minute of tin can, at best. They served to allow a person to become familiar with the AR platform at a reasonable cost, but aren't really good for a whole lot more than this. The dedicated rimfire uppers can be extremely good shooters, on par with even high quality match target rifles if they're built properly. Yes, the conversions can be used, and most are fairly reliable. Just don't expect any real accuracy from them. For that, you need a dedicated upper.
Re: .22lr conversion on an AR15
Yep, the Aguila mentions it works well in 1:9 & 1:7 twist barrels, but it's double what the cheaper CCI ammo costs. I'm going to do some math and see what ends up being cheaper... 60gr ammo or a new upper.
Yep, the Aguila mentions it works well in 1:9 & 1:7 twist barrels, but it's double what the cheaper CCI ammo costs. I'm going to do some math and see what ends up being cheaper... 60gr ammo or a new upper.
Re: .22lr conversion on an AR15
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sentry1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a 1:7 twist 16" barrel, but I see that dedicated .22lr uppers have a 1:16 twist barrel. Can I reliably shoot .22lr in my AR15 with a CMMG conversion bolt? </div></div>
Ive run the cmmg bolt in my 16" 1:7 twist BCM for probably 10,000rds. No real problems. Jams every now and again, maybe 1 in 200, less if clean and lubed. The only precautions I take before I run 223 again is the clean the entire upper and lower. The 22 kit is filthy after just a couple hundered rounds. Barrel is fouled, the inside of the upper looks like you poured black sand in it. If you shoot 223 right after 22lr you could really screw up your BCG, upper, and barrel. Just clean it thoroughly after shooting 22lr and you will be fine. And I try and shoot a few 223 rounds after shooting alot of 22lr just to clean out the gas tube.
I have shot many different kinds of 22lr, mostly bulk federal and winchester. I have some aguila but dont care to shoot it. CCI standard velocity runs great in it, actually Ive yet to find a gun that hates CCI SV.
Now accuracy isnt great, minute of soda can at 50yds. I use it to plink and practice moving and shooting and from less than ideal positions. I would be hesitant to run a conversion kit suppressed. I plan on getting a 223 can next year and will probably sell my conversion kit for a dedicated upper because I fear that I am asking for baffle strikes with the conversion kit.
It has paid for itself many times over and do not regret the decision one bit.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sentry1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a 1:7 twist 16" barrel, but I see that dedicated .22lr uppers have a 1:16 twist barrel. Can I reliably shoot .22lr in my AR15 with a CMMG conversion bolt? </div></div>
Ive run the cmmg bolt in my 16" 1:7 twist BCM for probably 10,000rds. No real problems. Jams every now and again, maybe 1 in 200, less if clean and lubed. The only precautions I take before I run 223 again is the clean the entire upper and lower. The 22 kit is filthy after just a couple hundered rounds. Barrel is fouled, the inside of the upper looks like you poured black sand in it. If you shoot 223 right after 22lr you could really screw up your BCG, upper, and barrel. Just clean it thoroughly after shooting 22lr and you will be fine. And I try and shoot a few 223 rounds after shooting alot of 22lr just to clean out the gas tube.
I have shot many different kinds of 22lr, mostly bulk federal and winchester. I have some aguila but dont care to shoot it. CCI standard velocity runs great in it, actually Ive yet to find a gun that hates CCI SV.
Now accuracy isnt great, minute of soda can at 50yds. I use it to plink and practice moving and shooting and from less than ideal positions. I would be hesitant to run a conversion kit suppressed. I plan on getting a 223 can next year and will probably sell my conversion kit for a dedicated upper because I fear that I am asking for baffle strikes with the conversion kit.
It has paid for itself many times over and do not regret the decision one bit.
Re: .22lr conversion on an AR15
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sentry1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a 1:7 twist 16" barrel, but I see that dedicated .22lr uppers have a 1:16 twist barrel. Can I reliably shoot .22lr in my AR15 with a CMMG conversion bolt? </div></div>
As KT stated the coversion kit vs dedicated upper is an apples to oranges comparision in terms of accuracy, but both should go "bang" a majority of the time.
Spend the money and get the dedicated upper if you can. Nordic Components gets my vote and their bolt design is utilized in both DPMS and JP enterprises .22LR uppers. I believe NC does the manufactuering for DPMS and JP. I've run 3k rounds througn mine and only cleaned it at 1.5k because I felt bad it was so dirty. Still no FTF's or FTE's in 3k rounds and I don't plan on cleaning it again until I get a malfunction.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sentry1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a 1:7 twist 16" barrel, but I see that dedicated .22lr uppers have a 1:16 twist barrel. Can I reliably shoot .22lr in my AR15 with a CMMG conversion bolt? </div></div>
As KT stated the coversion kit vs dedicated upper is an apples to oranges comparision in terms of accuracy, but both should go "bang" a majority of the time.
Spend the money and get the dedicated upper if you can. Nordic Components gets my vote and their bolt design is utilized in both DPMS and JP enterprises .22LR uppers. I believe NC does the manufactuering for DPMS and JP. I've run 3k rounds througn mine and only cleaned it at 1.5k because I felt bad it was so dirty. Still no FTF's or FTE's in 3k rounds and I don't plan on cleaning it again until I get a malfunction.
Re: .22lr conversion on an AR15
Here is a cut and paste from a post I did here a while ago:
1) .22lr twist rates are not the same as .223! 22lr bullets stabilize in 1:16 inch twists and .223 barrels come in 1:7, 1:8, 1:9, 1:12. .22lr stabilizes in a less aggressive barrel because of the fact that it is not as high in velocity as .223 and general speaking the weight of the projectile is about half.
The craziest .22lr HV bullets shoot out at 1700fps.
The average 69gr .223 load comes out at a minimum of 3000fps
2) diameter. .22r are .223, .223 is .224
Every bit counts. that small amount of play will make a difference.
3) Copper vs. lead. .223 is copper jacketed. This protects the gas system in the AR upper from becoming fouled. Not to say that fouling of the gas system isnt possible it is less likely than compared with lead .22's or copper WASHED .22lr's. Don't be fooled, copper washed is not even close to copper jacketed.
4) chamber maintenance. You have no idea how many times I have had people complaining at the range because of issues with their AR's after shooting .22lr.
You can not shoot any large amount of .22lr through your AR upper and then imediaitly switch to .223. You are just asking for trouble. Since AR conversions use a chamber sleeve that fits into the .223 chamber and then load .22lr ammo into that sleeve you get residue, carbon and other dirt that gets into the chamber after several rounds of .22lr fire. If you imediatly remove the conversion kit and load .223 you MAY have issues chambering and extracting fired rounds. Also because of the fouled chamber you run the risk of increasing chamber pressure which is not a good thing. If a conversion is to be used I cant stress enough that a fantastic cleaning job be performed prior to shooting .223 out of that upper.
Many people have shot .22lr out of their .223 AR uppers with no issues. The above information isn't to be taken as conversions suck or don't work or are not worth it. It is simply to inform you of teh CONS they pose. The biggest CON in my opinion is accuracy. While accurate enough for plinking, AR conversions do not bring the level of accuracy to the table that I like or that a dedicated .22lr rifle or .22lr dedicated upper have. This accuracy insnt seen at indoor ranges at 25 yards but instead at longer ranges in excess of 50 yards. To the average or recreational shooter a .22lr conversion will do just fine as long as teh proper maintenance is kept. For the shooter looking for pin-point accuracy........ save your $
Here is a cut and paste from a post I did here a while ago:
1) .22lr twist rates are not the same as .223! 22lr bullets stabilize in 1:16 inch twists and .223 barrels come in 1:7, 1:8, 1:9, 1:12. .22lr stabilizes in a less aggressive barrel because of the fact that it is not as high in velocity as .223 and general speaking the weight of the projectile is about half.
The craziest .22lr HV bullets shoot out at 1700fps.
The average 69gr .223 load comes out at a minimum of 3000fps
2) diameter. .22r are .223, .223 is .224
Every bit counts. that small amount of play will make a difference.
3) Copper vs. lead. .223 is copper jacketed. This protects the gas system in the AR upper from becoming fouled. Not to say that fouling of the gas system isnt possible it is less likely than compared with lead .22's or copper WASHED .22lr's. Don't be fooled, copper washed is not even close to copper jacketed.
4) chamber maintenance. You have no idea how many times I have had people complaining at the range because of issues with their AR's after shooting .22lr.
You can not shoot any large amount of .22lr through your AR upper and then imediaitly switch to .223. You are just asking for trouble. Since AR conversions use a chamber sleeve that fits into the .223 chamber and then load .22lr ammo into that sleeve you get residue, carbon and other dirt that gets into the chamber after several rounds of .22lr fire. If you imediatly remove the conversion kit and load .223 you MAY have issues chambering and extracting fired rounds. Also because of the fouled chamber you run the risk of increasing chamber pressure which is not a good thing. If a conversion is to be used I cant stress enough that a fantastic cleaning job be performed prior to shooting .223 out of that upper.
Many people have shot .22lr out of their .223 AR uppers with no issues. The above information isn't to be taken as conversions suck or don't work or are not worth it. It is simply to inform you of teh CONS they pose. The biggest CON in my opinion is accuracy. While accurate enough for plinking, AR conversions do not bring the level of accuracy to the table that I like or that a dedicated .22lr rifle or .22lr dedicated upper have. This accuracy insnt seen at indoor ranges at 25 yards but instead at longer ranges in excess of 50 yards. To the average or recreational shooter a .22lr conversion will do just fine as long as teh proper maintenance is kept. For the shooter looking for pin-point accuracy........ save your $
Re: .22lr conversion on an AR15
I agree with other opinions of the conversion kits. They are less accurate, foul the absolute crap out of the chamber, upper, lower, barrel, and gas tube. Id say they are about the same on reliability. A dedicated 22lr ar like m&p15-22 is going to cost 2-3 times as much as a conversion bolt and a few mags. If you have an aversion to cleaning, require accuracy above 2-4 MOA, or want to use a 22lr suppressor the conversion kit will work fine. But you will have to clean the beejesus out of it after you shoot 22lr.
Short story:
I shot about 200 rounds of 22lr with a few friends out of my adams arms piston upper about a year ago. To use the cmmg kit in a piston upper the op rod must be removed. With the op rod removed all the gas and fouling coming from the gas port just shoots straight up into the top of the gas block. Well after 200 rounds I decided to put the op rod back in and shoot 223. Well The op rod wouldnt go back into the gas block. I examined it, shoved a brass cleaning brush in there and scrapped away at it for a few seconds, still nothing. It was like an invisible object was keeping the last (largest) part of the op rod from seating into the gas block. Well after inspecting it multiple times I concluded that the fouling from the 200 22lr had accumulated on the top inside of the gas block. It was such as small and uniform amount i didnt notice it the first few times. I took a steel cleaning rod and scrapped at the carbon and lead deposit. Try the op rod again, nothing! Scrap scrap scrap for minutes, try op rod. NOTHING. So I decided to shoot 1 round of 223 with the op rod removed. It completely removed all the lead and carbon from the gas block and the op rod dropped right in.
Conclusion, 22lr can foul the ever loving crap out of your ar15, however the pressure of 223 is more than enough to clean out all the junk you cant either reach or move with a brush.
I agree with other opinions of the conversion kits. They are less accurate, foul the absolute crap out of the chamber, upper, lower, barrel, and gas tube. Id say they are about the same on reliability. A dedicated 22lr ar like m&p15-22 is going to cost 2-3 times as much as a conversion bolt and a few mags. If you have an aversion to cleaning, require accuracy above 2-4 MOA, or want to use a 22lr suppressor the conversion kit will work fine. But you will have to clean the beejesus out of it after you shoot 22lr.
Short story:
I shot about 200 rounds of 22lr with a few friends out of my adams arms piston upper about a year ago. To use the cmmg kit in a piston upper the op rod must be removed. With the op rod removed all the gas and fouling coming from the gas port just shoots straight up into the top of the gas block. Well after 200 rounds I decided to put the op rod back in and shoot 223. Well The op rod wouldnt go back into the gas block. I examined it, shoved a brass cleaning brush in there and scrapped away at it for a few seconds, still nothing. It was like an invisible object was keeping the last (largest) part of the op rod from seating into the gas block. Well after inspecting it multiple times I concluded that the fouling from the 200 22lr had accumulated on the top inside of the gas block. It was such as small and uniform amount i didnt notice it the first few times. I took a steel cleaning rod and scrapped at the carbon and lead deposit. Try the op rod again, nothing! Scrap scrap scrap for minutes, try op rod. NOTHING. So I decided to shoot 1 round of 223 with the op rod removed. It completely removed all the lead and carbon from the gas block and the op rod dropped right in.
Conclusion, 22lr can foul the ever loving crap out of your ar15, however the pressure of 223 is more than enough to clean out all the junk you cant either reach or move with a brush.
Re: .22lr conversion on an AR15
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fiveshotdot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My CMMG conversion kit runs federal bulk pack great. I shoots accuratly and reliably 99% of the time. </div></div>
My Ciener Conversion kit runs great in my M16 either in semi or full auto. I use Federal Bulk. I have an ACOG TAO1 on the M16 and the 100 yard zero for 556 is right on at 50 yards.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fiveshotdot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My CMMG conversion kit runs federal bulk pack great. I shoots accuratly and reliably 99% of the time. </div></div>
My Ciener Conversion kit runs great in my M16 either in semi or full auto. I use Federal Bulk. I have an ACOG TAO1 on the M16 and the 100 yard zero for 556 is right on at 50 yards.
Re: .22lr conversion on an AR15
I use a M261 conversion kit in my SBR & SPR. Both have 1:7 twist barrels. I will run the Aguilla 60gr in the SPR, and am able to knock over bowling pins easily @ 50yd, and with reasonable regularity @ 100yd. I've been shooting the CCI Blazer bulk pack 40gr in the SBR. Accuracy is good enough for clay pidgeons @ 50yds, and makes for cheap plinking and fun. Would I get better accuracy if I had a dedicated upper? Sure, bit it's not worth it for me for what I use it for.
I use a M261 conversion kit in my SBR & SPR. Both have 1:7 twist barrels. I will run the Aguilla 60gr in the SPR, and am able to knock over bowling pins easily @ 50yd, and with reasonable regularity @ 100yd. I've been shooting the CCI Blazer bulk pack 40gr in the SBR. Accuracy is good enough for clay pidgeons @ 50yds, and makes for cheap plinking and fun. Would I get better accuracy if I had a dedicated upper? Sure, bit it's not worth it for me for what I use it for.
Re: .22lr conversion on an AR15
If anybody is wanting a CMMG conversion kit, I'm running a sale on them right now through December.
http://www.hellscanyonarmory.com/index.php/22lr-conversion-kits-1.html
Mike
If anybody is wanting a CMMG conversion kit, I'm running a sale on them right now through December.
http://www.hellscanyonarmory.com/index.php/22lr-conversion-kits-1.html
Mike
Re: .22lr conversion on an AR15
I used a M261 in my RRA Varmint 1-8" with the Aquila 60gn bullets it would have trouble hitting a soda can @ 25 yds. Went to a Nordic upper, goes about 300rnds between cleanings, gets about 3/4"@50yds
I used a M261 in my RRA Varmint 1-8" with the Aquila 60gn bullets it would have trouble hitting a soda can @ 25 yds. Went to a Nordic upper, goes about 300rnds between cleanings, gets about 3/4"@50yds
