.243 Win, RCBS Comp Dies, Giraud Trimmer

[GUNNER75]

Just ran into this tonight, thought I would see if anyone else has.

Full length sized and deprimed 500 plus .243 cases last night.
Got home this evening, thought I better get after it again. Tossed 1/2 of them in the tumbler, and deceided to set up the Giraud.

Got the Giraud set up and grabbed a few of the un tumbled cases to further dial in the Giraud.
Wiped the cases clean.
Grabbed the slave case that came with the trimmer that Giraud sells.
Got the collet close (within .008")
Stuck one of the freshly sized cases in and it didn't even come close to trimming, like .030 away (or more) from the cutter.

So, I cleaned the collet, adjusted to the sized case and adjusted up close.
At this point I noticed that the Giraud slave case slides in and out of the collet w/o issue, and the fresh sized case wants to "lock" in the collet.
Now, the Giraud slave case in the collet sets way low (going to trim a lot off if I run it).

I stop and think through it. I have used that sizing die just a couple months ago to work over about 200 .243 Win cases out of the same run. No issues with those sticking in the collet.

After measuring the cases back and forth, installing a std RCBS sizing die and re sizing a couple cases, I figure out my RCBS Competition die set is a little large. Obviously.


Long story short, I know I sized with the Comp die set before and don't remember the cases sticking in the Giraud. (plus I am positive that I had check initial set up with the Giraud slave case they sent with it).
Guess I need to just use the old RCBS sizing die and then the Giraud.

Anybody have any suggesting, tips, etc that have run into this?

Thanks
Wade

Also may note that the barrel was cut using a std .243 reamer. I haven't noticed any, well now that I think about it more, maybe a handful of my loaded ammo felt snug going into the chamber. I have had to run at least 1500 rounds out of that die set and this barrel.

I don't know, driving me nuts though.

 

[jasonk]

Re: .243 Win, RCBS Comp Dies, Giraud Trimmer

Different shell holder by chance? Maybe a few thousandths difference....or you were camming it over harder?

 

[RADcustom]

Re: .243 Win, RCBS Comp Dies, Giraud Trimmer

Not enough lube?

 

[19Scout77]

Re: .243 Win, RCBS Comp Dies, Giraud Trimmer

Contact Doug Giraud and ask him. His CS is top notch.

 

[GUNNER75]

Re: .243 Win, RCBS Comp Dies, Giraud Trimmer

Just tried a couple other shell holders, they measure the same, and I even ran a couple cases through. They trim the same.

I left the Giraud set up for my new cases last night. (which means if I size one with a std RCBS die, it will eat it down to 1.965 OAL).
(Once again, I pulled out my old die set to size a couple and try).

Now if grab one of the cases of 500 plus that I sized with the RCBS Comp die and run it, it trims out at 2.035/6.

Little more than .030 I mentioned earlier.

What it is looking like to me is that the Comp Sizing Die is about .001 off just behind the neck (if that).
I polished a few cases by hand out of that 500 and ran them in and out of the Giraud collet to see any witness marks where it was hanging up. (What I can see is just behind the neck, I get a touch of drag, not on the neck, etc).

**I checked my notes this morning as well. I have trimmed several hundred cases after FL sizing with that die and using the Giraud.
I had about 600 at one setting that I ran. Remembering what some had said about being able to trim out 400 to 600 in an hour with this trimmer, I tried it. I didn't get 600, but 400 pretty easy at one setting, then 200 in less than 1/2 hour.
I couldn't have done that many with the case sticking in the collet like it is now.

Starting to confuse and or at least question myself at this point even more.

Thanks.

 

[RoughNeck182]

Re: .243 Win, RCBS Comp Dies, Giraud Trimmer

You probably would have checked this already but has the die lost it's proper adjustment? Do you use it to bump the shoulder 'just enough' or do you do the maximum amount of sizing each time because it sounds like it's not getting the shoulder pushed back quite far enough?

 

[19Scout77]

Re: .243 Win, RCBS Comp Dies, Giraud Trimmer

From what you just posted, it sounds like Newbie X is on the right track.

If you do not already have one, pick up a Hornady Lock and Load Cartridge Headspace Gauge Kit and measure the headspace on your sized cases and the truth will be revealed.

 

[GUNNER75]

Re: .243 Win, RCBS Comp Dies, Giraud Trimmer

I own one of those kits, never used it yet. Didn't even think about it.

I am full sizing with that RCBS Comp Die set. Even over adjusted to insure I was getting the full sizing. Just cannot figure out why all of the sudden the cases stick in that collet and or it is not actually sizing them like it did before.

I am going to go over it one more time this evening and see if I missed anything, and also run the headspace measurements.

Thanks for the input fellas.



Something else I noticed, checked, tried.

I took the slave/sample case that Giraud sent with the machine, removed my Comp die, pulled the decapping pin out and slid that case into the die by hand. Took measurements off of the base to the case head. This case slid in w/o restriction.
I repeated this step with a case that I had sized with that die and when I would push it in, I would get resistance and could not get it to completely seat in that die by hand. If I tapped on it, it would go, but couldn't remove it by hand. No lube on either case.
This didn't necessarily suprise me, but thought I would add.

 

[bigwheeler]

Re: .243 Win, RCBS Comp Dies, Giraud Trimmer

You are getting spring back in the cases if they worked before and won't work
now. I would stop fighting it and contact RCBS about their die. It has to be a little
large if your old die works.

 

[GUNNER75]

243 Win, RCBS Comp Dies, Giraud Trimmer, Update

After a day or two away from the reloading bench, I hit it again this evening.

This is what I have found.

RCBS Standard .243 dies and RCBS Competition .243 dies are used here. 3 different shell holders (measure out the same).

I went back over my notes, etc and didn't noticed anything. I had used the Giraud on several hundred .243 Win Cases sized on the RCBS Comp Die set. No problems.

This round I am rolling 500 .243 cases that have maybe two firings on them.
Sized them with the Comp dies using the same lube, set up, everything (except lubed these in a bag and not on the block, didn't change anything though).

Tonight it hit me finally. Even though I checked my notes, I have only sized NEW Win .243 brass and used the Giraud. I obtained the Giraud around Christmas, and only prepped new brass since, no fired brass.

Further trial and several cases later, I discovered that my STD RCBS dies will size the brass and allow the case to slip in and out of the Giraud trimmer collet w/o issue.
The RCBS Comp dies will not. Just behind the shoulder of the case, I get some drag going into the collet. This doesn't allow the case to rest on the neck of the collet like it should. Also, cases stick like no other.

If I would have just thought about what all I have really trimmed with the Giraud since I have owned it, I would have realized that they were all new cases.

Lesson learned. Keep even better notes, pull head out, etc!

Plan on calling RCBS to get the low down on these dies, what's the difference, etc. Very very minimal difference when measuring, just the slightest drag will make them hang up and not fully seat in the collet.

I have also heard since mentioning this to a few others, that there Giraud collets were on the tight side.

Thanks for the input fellas.

 

[dhg2]

Re: 243 Win, RCBS Comp Dies, Giraud Trimmer, Update

Wade,

If RCBS can't fix your die or doesn't want to help you, just send the case holder back to me with three or four of your "sticking" cases. I can open it up slightly so the cases will fit without restriction.

I do this on occasion for people wanting neck sized only brass trimmed. I try to keep the case holders on the small size to reduce "wobble" or sloppy fits, but sometimes its too tight for sloppy dies, loose chambers, etc.

Thanks,
Doug Giraud
Giraud Tool Company