.243 with Hybrids

BallisticPrimate

BallisticPrimate

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Minuteman
Feb 11, 2017
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#1
I posted this in the reloading section but thought I'd try here.

It must be a reflection of just how popular the 6x47 and the 6-Creed have become that the .243 thread on the reloading depot is buried 5 pages deep. That being said can anyone provide me with some rough velocity estimations for a .243win throwing 105gr Hybrids from a 1/8 twist 26 inch barrel. I have access to H1000 or H4350. My smith is spinning the barrel up now and I'm playing around with the ballistics data - hoping to hit 3K-3100fps without punishing the brass (lapua) too hard. Thanks, BP
 
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#3
GGK said:
RL26 will push the 105 to around 3400 but can be easily downloaded to <3200 without much issue from what I've read.
Click to expand...

I was wondering this afternoon what the 6 Creedmoor or 6x47 can do that the .243 cannot, I am open to suggestions but damn, 3400 is smoking along!
 
#4
Dirty D said:
I was wondering this afternoon what the 6 Creedmoor or 6x47 can do that the .243 cannot, I am open to suggestions but damn, 3400 is smoking along!
Click to expand...

I suppose the arguments in favour of the Creed & x47 would focus on small primer/brass life, easily fit/feed with unconstrained mag lengths, and more efficient cartridge design. That said extra case capacity is 'extra' any way you cut it, and the newer powders (ala RL26) seem to add another dimension to the old .243 workhorse ;) I'm not going to be able to find RL26 here in Australia at anything approaching reasonable prices so I'm going to give H1000 a go.
 
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#6
H1000 is a favorite with .243. Mine used around 46-47 grains and 3000 fps in a 24" barrel. I dont own it anymore. About to put a 6 creed together for the reasons Ballistic mentioned.

Im gonna have to scrounge up some RL26.
 
#11
Right around 46-47gr of H1000 should get you 3000 - 3150 depending on how fast your barrel is. I've got a 24" comp match that spits 110's @ 3125 with 47gr of H1000 and another 24" that will barely do 3150 with 105's with 48+gr of H1000.
 
#12
sdman11890 said:
Right around 46-47gr of H1000 should get you 3000 - 3150 depending on how fast your barrel is. I've got a 24" comp match that spits 110's @ 3125 with 47gr of H1000 and another 24" that will barely do 3150 with 105's with 48+gr of H1000.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info, I'll update this thread once I've got some real world numbers from my 26'.
 
#14
Over 10 with Lapua brass. The chamber was also longer then your standard chamber. I seated the bullets at 2.950 so I had the room for more powder and not run into big pressure issues.
 
#16
GIXXER2000 said:
In my AI-AE .243 1-8 26 inch barrel I found 4831sc give good velocity and 1/3 moa groups
4831sc 44.1
CCI BR2
Lapua Brass
COAL of 2.86
AVF FPS 3030
Click to expand...

Not to hijack this thread or anything but I'm curious about a load for my 243. I noticed you used 4831sc I'm having issues finding a load in my Rem 700 sps varmint 243 and I have h4831. Can I use that instead of the h4831sc?
 
#23
mrbig said:
I am not gonna say how much H1000 I shoot in my Tac 30 243 with a 28 inch 8 twist HV Krieger bbl with 105 orange box VLD`s but from a 100 yard zero it is 22 minutes to 1000 and 41 to my far target at 1330,,,
Click to expand...

According to quickload it's pretty difficult to get enough H1000 into a .243 case to reach super high pressures
 
#26
Finally managed to get out for some load dev with H1000 and 105gr Hybrids, results as follows:

47.5gr, Lapua 0 x fired brass, Fed GMM primer, 2.88 OAL.
From a 26' barrel got 3010fps ave/10. SD=10.6

I'm going to get a drop tube and see if I can get nearer 3100fps without pressure signs
 
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#27
BallisticPrimate said:
Finally managed to get out for some load dev with H1000 and 105gr Hybrids, results as follows:

47.5gr, Lapua 0 x fired brass, Fed GMM primer, 2.88 OAL.
From a 26' barrel got 3010fps ave/10. SD=10.6

I'm going to get a drop tube and see if I can get nearer 3100fps without pressure signs
Click to expand...

I've run H1000 in 243 with 105 hybrids in a bunch of 26" barrels and that's the load. I typically see just under 3150fps, it's possibly your barrel will speed up it it's new. I try to get a couple hundred rounds on a barrel before doing a solid load workup. In all of these barrels when I have loaded more (though one barrel liked 47.8gr) velocity has flatlined and ES/SD opens up big time. I've gotten 49gr in both Lapua and Winchester brass and I never saw the first sign of pressure but always a loss of performance.

You're at the sweet spot though, I'd give it a couple hundred rounds and see if it picks up speed. It's possible your barrel may be a little on the slow side too, they can vary. I've got one right now that's much slower than all the others and I know it's not the lot of powder as it's the same lot that produced the higher velocities in other barrels. I've also found H1000 extremely consistent from lot to lot, I've probably ran two dozen different lots of it.

If you want more velocity you can also try H4831. For 243 I prefer it over SC as I find to to be just a little slower/cooler burning and case capacity really isn't an issue with the 243. You can/will probably see pressure with this powder so be cautious as always. I'd start at 43gr and work up in .1 or .2gr increments. Right at or before 47gr is where I typically see pressure start, but every rifle is different. 3300fps is typically doable with this combo in a 26" but you may be as low as 3200fps in the end depending on barrel/nodes. In one Schneider barrel I saw just over 3400fps with the first signs of pressure starting and this was when the barrel was new. 45-45.5gr is where you should see 3150fps. Keep in mind that this powder won't give the barrel life of H1000 but if you slow it down to similar velocities you should still see longer life than what you'd get with faster powders. I'd say 2500fps is doable but I've never ran H4831 exclusively until a barrel was toast. Keep the velocity in mind with match speed limits if you're planning on running any matches as this combo can easily exceed them and beat up the MD's steel more, and get you thrown out/DQ'd/banned if you're running over the limit even if it was intentional.
 
#28
redneckbmxer24 said:
I've run H1000 in 243 with 105 hybrids in a bunch of 26" barrels and that's the load. I typically see just under 3150fps, it's possibly your barrel will speed up it it's new. I try to get a couple hundred rounds on a barrel before doing a solid load workup. In all of these barrels when I have loaded more (though one barrel liked 47.8gr) velocity has flatlined and ES/SD opens up big time. I've gotten 49gr in both Lapua and Winchester brass and I never saw the first sign of pressure but always a loss of performance.

You're at the sweet spot though, I'd give it a couple hundred rounds and see if it picks up speed. It's possible your barrel may be a little on the slow side too, they can vary. I've got one right now that's much slower than all the others and I know it's not the lot of powder as it's the same lot that produced the higher velocities in other barrels. I've also found H1000 extremely consistent from lot to lot, I've probably ran two dozen different lots of it.

If you want more velocity you can also try H4831. For 243 I prefer it over SC as I find to to be just a little slower/cooler burning and case capacity really isn't an issue with the 243. You can/will probably see pressure with this powder so be cautious as always. I'd start at 43gr and work up in .1 or .2gr increments. Right at or before 47gr is where I typically see pressure start, but every rifle is different. 3300fps is typically doable with this combo in a 26" but you may be as low as 3200fps in the end depending on barrel/nodes. In one Schneider barrel I saw just over 3400fps with the first signs of pressure starting and this was when the barrel was new. 45-45.5gr is where you should see 3150fps. Keep in mind that this powder won't give the barrel life of H1000 but if you slow it down to similar velocities you should still see longer life than what you'd get with faster powders. I'd say 2500fps is doable but I've never ran H4831 exclusively until a barrel was toast. Keep the velocity in mind with match speed limits if you're planning on running any matches as this combo can easily exceed them and beat up the MD's steel more, and get you thrown out/DQ'd/banned if you're running over the limit even if it was intentional.
Click to expand...

Thanks mate, I'll be happy with H1000 if I can get at or near 3100fps, which shouldn't be a problem. I hear you on the barrel speeding up, I expect to see that too. Appreciate the info. Cheers, BP
 
#29
My AI/AT - .243 bartlien 24" barrel 1:8 twist

Berger 105g Hybrid 42.4g H4350 Fed 210M lapua brass, C..O.L. = 2.800" shoots 3,145 fps ... no pressure signs whatsoever until the gun gets hot. Then primers start to blow ...
 
#30
I was thinking of switching to one of these other 6mm calibers but I talked with quite a few guys I know here and none of them are getting greater barrel life for the extra work that put into fireforming for these other rounds. 6 comp match, 6xc, and 6 creed. So I decided to stick with the 243. I am getting 3135 fps using 105's and I'm 4350 with. 26"pipe and a can. Currently have 744 rounds on it.
 
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#32
BallisticPrimate said:
Any idea re what velocity one could expect slinging 105's from a 22' barrel?
Click to expand...

H4350 may get you north of 3100 and H4831 definitely will. H1000 isn't going to be very impressive though, you really want a 26"+ for it. RL17 should also give good velocity from a 22" but will come at reduced barrel, it eats barrels pretty good.
 
#33
My experience is with the 6x47 with RL26 & H4350 with 105 and 115 JLK's. Much of the discussion here has been about 'how fast can it go'?
If you don't care about pulling the barrel at 1k or chasing the lands every 100-150rounds, then you can easily shoot 3200+ with RL26 w/o any pressure.
I'd tell you the sweet spot is 3040 for 105's. I haven't seen enough BC advantage to work with the 115's for my use.
I'm happy with 39.5g H4350 with 105's jumped .020". 40.2g will throw them 3110fps.
 
#34
Finally got time to run additional load dev with the .243, H1000 and 105gr Hybrids.

<a href="https://imgur.com/zskzmbX"><img src="https://i.imgur.com/zskzmbX.jpg" title="source: imgur.com" /></a>

After initial testing with 47.5gr produced fairly low velocity I loaded another batch increasing charge weight in 0.2 increments from 48gr - 49.6gr. I shot two groups looking for velocity plateaus. The velocity spread was 3046fps - 3175fps. Two nodes emerged from the testing, one between 48.2gr & 48.6, and a higher node 49.2 - 49.6gr. 48.5gr appears to be the most stable load producing approximately 3090fps, the higher node looks to be about 3145fps, but it produced slightly higher SD numbers. The barrel has just on 120 rounds through it so I may pick up a little more speed after I've run 200 rds or so.

I fired 21 rounds across two groups neither of which went over an inch. This is another reason why I prefer using the chrono to identify stable SD/ES loads rather than relying on the OCW method.

<a href="https://imgur.com/01fZun5"><img src="https://i.imgur.com/01fZun5.png" title="source: imgur.com" /></a>
 
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#35
Load Dev with the Hybrids and H1000 now complete.
Vel: 3098
SD: 2.6
ES: 5

couple of groups at 100m - 5x:

<a href="https://imgur.com/MtaE7gg"><img src="https://i.imgur.com/MtaE7gg.jpg" title="source: imgur.com" /></a>

3x

<a href="https://imgur.com/VQRYXXB"><img src="https://i.imgur.com/VQRYXXB.png" title="source: imgur.com" /></a>

Then confirmed data at 500M

​​​​​​​<a href="https://imgur.com/vjWh8Xy"><img src="https://i.imgur.com/vjWh8Xy.jpg" title="source: imgur.com" /></a>
 
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