What is your maximum range for targets? What is the barrel life like for these cartridges?
It for target only, fun only!
It for target only, fun only!
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.25 blackjack, 25.06, 6/06, 6.5 saum, 6 saum, 7 saum 6.5 prc
- Thread starter Madarcher419
- Start date
Only you can determine what criteria you deem maximum range. As far as the quarterbores in that lineup you can run the ballistics against the others and I think you will be pretty surprised at the results.
131g ACE with G7 BC .340
Blackjack and 25-06 both will run 3150- 3250 fps
The 25 SAUM will run 3250-3400 fps
All 3 will make 1000y a chip shot and a mile pretty easy. I have shot my 25 SAUM @ 3280fps to 2300y with 50% hits on a 36" plate with 20-30mph winds.
The blackjack will fit easily in a short action and is more efficiently designed than the -06 but both perform close to the same speeds. Barrel life will favor the Blackjack as it needs less powder to get there. Barrel life has a BUNCH of factors other than just that also, the particular barrel, rate of fire, powder choice, ambient temp, ect.
131g ACE with G7 BC .340
Blackjack and 25-06 both will run 3150- 3250 fps
The 25 SAUM will run 3250-3400 fps
All 3 will make 1000y a chip shot and a mile pretty easy. I have shot my 25 SAUM @ 3280fps to 2300y with 50% hits on a 36" plate with 20-30mph winds.
The blackjack will fit easily in a short action and is more efficiently designed than the -06 but both perform close to the same speeds. Barrel life will favor the Blackjack as it needs less powder to get there. Barrel life has a BUNCH of factors other than just that also, the particular barrel, rate of fire, powder choice, ambient temp, ect.
I’ve gotten my 25CM cooking @ 3200 FPS but it favors the high 2900s. I have shot clay pigeons @ 1 mile with this Bullet. I expect to get over 2k round life easily.
well for fun, there is nothing like putting big rings/impacts on your targets. From your list, for that, I like the 7SAUM shooting the 180gr Berger at 3000fps. 6.5 SAUM shooting the new Berger 144gr or 153gr looks to deliver good kinetic energy too. Don't do a hot rod 6mm... sure they will be fast but your barrel will be toast and 6mm bullets just don't deliver the same 'thump'.
We have taken 7SAUMs out to 2200yds in MT with good success. I'm sure you can go a bit more as the Hybrid goes thru sound barrier well.
We have taken 7SAUMs out to 2200yds in MT with good success. I'm sure you can go a bit more as the Hybrid goes thru sound barrier well.
7 saum.
190LRHT at 2850.
I’ve had good success out to 2669 yards so far.
Lots of shooting from 2000-2300 lately.
My barrel recently died at 1930 rounds, I finally couldn’t keep adding powder to maintain speed.
I’ll be trying for 2800 and possibly 3000 this weekend with the new barrel.
190LRHT at 2850.
I’ve had good success out to 2669 yards so far.
Lots of shooting from 2000-2300 lately.
My barrel recently died at 1930 rounds, I finally couldn’t keep adding powder to maintain speed.
I’ll be trying for 2800 and possibly 3000 this weekend with the new barrel.
What freebore do you have on that? I think mine is too short at .120 for any of the high BC bullets.
.090
I think your freebore would be perfect in a long action and would still work with 168 and under hunting bullets in a 2.95 magazine short action
Well said. I very recently (like last few weeks) learned this the hard way unfortunately. I was using a 6 Creed, and clear out to 2100 yards it was very effective, I would say that was pushing it's consistency, but inside 1800 it was super consistent...for about 800 rounds. Now it shoots a solid 2MOA at 100 yards, haha. So, my next rifle for this purpose will be a 7SST. No more 6mm for me. Plus the wind adjustment will be much more reasonable with a 180 or 190 grain bullet.
How in the world did you do that? I've seen some saying they were pushing it very hard to get to 3050, 3200 seems insane.
Is 7saum better suited to a LA receiver for 180+ class bullets? Seems like a good round for long range and hunting should I ever do the latter.
I'm sure someone has done it, but would you have feeding issues I wonder? Maybe a medium action like a Tikka would be a good fit for the heavies and a 7 SAUM? Richard Sherman would say it's not well suited for SA I know, due to how far you have to seat the bullet, it's why he developed the Sherman short and short tactical rounds. But obviously many run them in short actions, they just have to seat the heavier bullets deeper into the case than ideal, or they have to single feed.
I run a 25sst, mild load of h-1000 with the 131’s at 3230fps. I’ve been pretty nice to the barrel. I’ve shot it out 2000yards and it does well.
It was a .3-.4 rifle to start with and its still holding Half MOA at 1000 with 950 rounds on the barrel.
It was a .3-.4 rifle to start with and its still holding Half MOA at 1000 with 950 rounds on the barrel.
I shot a lot of 180’s out of a 2.95 magazine, you can easily get good speeds with R26, with H1000 it’s better in a long action.
I single feed the 190’s in my short action.
It is a long action but I think the freebore is the problem. You can't seat the bullets past the lands! This is about where the 190 A tips touch the lands and you can see that it's seated way past the neck/shoulder junction. I've ordered a throating reamer.
Yes, agree with this. I also used to shoot a lot of 180s out of the 2.95 mag, and got MV at 2900fps from H4831sc and a 26" barrel. Precision was very solid as was MV consistency.
If I were to build a 7SAUM again, it is on a long action. Just a lot fewer headaches, more and easier MV, and opens the options for bullets longer than the 180.
The OP is clearly looking for fun time - w/ an name like @Madarcher419 , this guy is all about hitting steel with authority. You need a big magnum, maybe a 300WSM or something like that to add another 20-50 grains of lead to your ballistic profile
Well I’ve shot about 2000 7mm bullets seated deeper than that and never had any issues with accuracy or vertical.
Eventually my plan is to get a magnum face long action for 7 saum and return my short action nuke to 260.Yes, agree with this. I also used to shoot a lot of 180s out of the 2.95 mag, and got MV at 2900fps from H4831sc and a 26" barrel. Precision was very solid as was MV consistency.
If I were to build a 7SAUM again, it is on a long action. Just a lot fewer headaches, more and easier MV, and opens the options for bullets longer than the 180.
The OP is clearly looking for fun time - w/ an name like @Madarcher419 , this guy is all about hitting steel with authority. You need a big magnum, maybe a 300WSM or something like that to add another 20-50 grains of lead to your ballistic profile
Yes.
Great at first but the Berger 190 just as good down range
I had a few 190 a tips blow up as well
I’ve heard about the jacket failures. Have you come across any data for either bullet? I tried them at 59 grains H1000 but was a little nervous to go higher.
I just started cautiously with my 180 data
In ADG brass and approximately 3.050 OAL I was a few grains Higher than 59 of H1000 and peaked out at 2930 in a 28” barrel.
2850 was the happy place though
2930 had a touch of tight bolt lift.
R26 was a lot nicer to deal with than H1000.
Same speed with less pressure, some of my brass is getting loaded tomorrow for it’s 17th bang.
Go Defiance XM! I'm building a 6.5 PRC off one now to shoot 153.5 bergers with a 30" tube. It runs 2990 with a lighter load and no pressure in a 26" tube now. Next barrel I might go 7 saum once its time for new brass. My original plan was 7 saum with 190 atips until our chat about the hornady bombs.
I also have a 25 SST that was a lazer to a mile but lost barrel very early so that's becoming a 6.5 prc carbon hunting rig. My kid is getting my 6.5 creed rebarreled to a 25 creed prefit from PVA. The 25s are amazing for low recoil my 7 year old has been successful to 900 yards with it, we were going to go for 1400 but then I lost the barrel before I got a chance to take him out again.
What do you like? Low recoil or high energy? And what are you hunting? Mostly I'd say it's just preference. 7 SAUM will have much better barrel life, something to consider as well.
Why not meet in the middle with a 6.5 saum or Prc. Way more bullet choices and depending on barrel length you should be able to zip a 140 vld 3100-3200+ or a 156 2950-3150
Both of those should do that, but the 7 will certainly be more effective. And to @Ajrich point, with 25 you have one bullet choice basically, if that's a problem for you. I'm going to build a 25 creed, and I'm actually glad for 1 bullet choice for the simplicity of it.
What long range bullet is cheap? The blackjack isn't any more than similar Sierra or Berger bullets, a little less actually. More than Hornady but not massively. Curious what bullets you're shooting?
Lol
Those are cheap compared to my 190 Berger’s
They are not much more than ELDM’s and a lot of those kinda suck now.
Prices on premium hunting bullets are similar.
The big factor in my choice of 7 saum was that I wanted the best BC to cost ratio and heavier bullets for spotting impacts at the distances I wanted try.
My experience with 130-150 grain bullets showed me that wasn’t enough weight to consistently spot In my conditions at 2000+
My experience with 130-150 grain bullets showed me that wasn’t enough weight to consistently spot In my conditions at 2000+
Yes, this is my experience too... if you are going out 2000+ yds and you don't want a monster caliber (338+), you want to be driving over 150grs of bullet to constantly get splash that you can use... 180gr Berger Hybrid remains an good choice for that mission. And the SAUM cartridge is an excellent, non-wildcat off the shelf option. It is precise, easy to find a low SD/ES load with a bunch of good powders. It can be used in a S/A too (although not ideal). You can hot-rod with all sorts of wildcats, but the out-of-the-box SAUM doesn't give up much to them.
47.4g of R26 got me up to 3230 FPS, it was a hot load and I wouldn't shoot hundreds of them that way but you can probably start at 46g and work up to get better speeds. 28" suppressed bartlein
Its crazy how thick that ADG brass is, I have my name on the waiting list to pick some up. Until then, Im loading Remington brass with 61.9 of H1000 and getting 2850. I just scored some 4831sc, might try to see what it can do for me. You have any experience with it?
I had Mile High spin up a 30" Bartlein in 6.5 PRC LHGT for the AX/MC. We've only had the time to just start working up a load, but running 121 Flatlines, we're getting 3400 FPS without signs of pressure. Yes, splash will be like a gnat farting in the breeze but I have a 2-mile target camera and we will work our way out like a blind man in a maze. Ballistically, a mile should be no problem, but baby steps may be required to wring it out. I put an Area 41 Sidewinder on the 6.5 barrel and it has the recoil of a 22LR.
We have 300 PRC and 338LM barrels for the AX so those are following the usual spotter/splash walk in routine. The big picture plan is to get a 416 Barrett as the primary ELR money funnel, so the 6.5 is more of a diversion. It's good to have options and to have to learn to deal with the consequences.
We have 300 PRC and 338LM barrels for the AX so those are following the usual spotter/splash walk in routine. The big picture plan is to get a 416 Barrett as the primary ELR money funnel, so the 6.5 is more of a diversion. It's good to have options and to have to learn to deal with the consequences.
For shooting 168-175 class bullets H4831SC is amazing.
For 180-190’s I prefer R26
In this video I’m aiming at the big dark spot in the video.
I can also recommend the Nosler brass. I had 200 pieces of that stuff and everyone was excellent.
Regarding 4831sc, I was using it with the 180gr H with good to very good precision and MV SD/ES. I also found it temperature stable. I don't know if my MV was all that fast, 2900fps-ish, but the low SD/ES pretty much meant I didn't need to worry about where the bullet would land vertically, allowing me to focus on the wind. I think you are good to go with this powder in this cartridge.
Thats fast enough for me. Hell, I was tickled to get 2850 fps with H1000 out of my 24" Bartlein. My SD was around the 12-15 if I remember correctly. I have heard that the 4831sc is good for shorter barrels and a more consistent SD. Thanks for the info!
I have taken my 6.5 SAUM to a mile with 140 Nosler RDFs. They are running at 3125 FPS out of a 26” Bartlein tube. 61gn H1000 in ADG brass. Shouldn’t have any issues dialing to 2000yds with my current setup.
