.260 Pros/Cons?

[SScott]

Re: .260 Pros/Cons?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: nut job</div><div class="ubbcode-body">@SS: How are you getting 2726 out of a 175 SMK 308 win round? 30" barrel? My accurate reloads are 2550 and factory FGMM loads are 2600. </div></div>
Settle down guys, I'm not selling rifles here, I am just giving food for thought.
These numbers come from a 26" barreled Sako TRG, I usually use the speed of 2715, but I adjusted the speed to match what was actually happening down rang, because I was shooting at 1,000 feet above where I had originally did my load work up.
Guys, show me your data to back up what your saying, as I am not trying to down talk the 260, I am just pointing out other options in the Short action cartridge.
SScott

 

[Johnny Lately]

Re: .260 Pros/Cons?

Just shot my .260 today for the first time. I was using 142 SMK with new R-P brass and 40.8 Gr of H4350

 

[ARsR4ME]

Re: .260 Pros/Cons?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sunnyside Scott</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: nut job</div><div class="ubbcode-body">@SS: How are you getting 2726 out of a 175 SMK 308 win round? 30" barrel? My accurate reloads are 2550 and factory FGMM loads are 2600. </div></div>
Settle down guys, I'm not selling rifles here, I am just giving food for thought.
These numbers come from a 26" barreled Sako TRG, I usually use the speed of 2715, but I adjusted the speed to match what was actually happening down rang, because I was shooting at 1,000 feet above where I had originally did my load work up.
Guys, show me your data to back up what your saying, as I am not trying to down talk the 260, I am just pointing out other options in the Short action cartridge.
SScott

</div></div>

Wow, how many reloads do you get out of that brass at 45? I use 43gr. of varget in win brass, fed 210m primers, out of a 24" 5r and get 2550 fps. But I also get very long brass life. I keep hearing about you Sako guys running near max with no problems, guess there is something to it.

 

[higginsworksforme]

Re: .260 Pros/Cons?

What's the availability of 260 in Europe? I ordered a TRG but I might be going to Germany.

 

[Mohawk3a]

Re: .260 Pros/Cons?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: nut job</div><div class="ubbcode-body">@SS: How are you getting 2726 out of a 175 SMK 308 win round? 30" barrel? My accurate reloads are 2550 and factory FGMM loads are 2600. </div></div>
Last time I ran my 22" gap .308 through a chronograph I averaged 2720 with 180 jlk's. Thats with 44.8g varget cci450 lapua palma brass.

 

[SScott]

Re: .260 Pros/Cons?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: nut job</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Wow, how many reloads do you get out of that brass at 45? I use 43gr. of varget in win brass, fed 210m primers, out of a 24" 5r and get 2550 fps. But I also get very long brass life. I keep hearing about you Sako guys running near max with no problems, guess there is something to it. </div></div>
Nutjob,
When I was neck sizing only, I was able to get 12 reloads before I started to reject brass because I could feel a valley forming inside. I an now resizing and trimming every time and I am at 8 reloads and am now starting to cull brass that is showing valleys. I have never split a case yet.
Heck with 260 (grin), you ought to push your .308 reloads to the next accuracy node and pick up some drop and drift on your ammo.


Johnny Lately,
Great shooting on your 260, that thing looks like its a shooter, your'e gonna really smile when you take her out a few hundred yards.
SScott

 

[nfresquez]

Re: .260 Pros/Cons?

One thing I haven't seen mentioned about the 260 vs other popular 6.5's is overall length. If you are using a mag system you may run out of room with the heavier bullets if you want to jam or are chasing the lands. This isn't the case with the 6.5x47 or 6.5 CM. Just throwing a possible con using some DBM systems

 

[agr 490]

Re: .260 Pros/Cons?

I get 2750 with the 175 smk. I run 44.2 varget cci br2 on a hornady case. Rifle is a 24 inch savage 10 fcp. Was checked last Saturday on my friends ohler chrono.

 

[Johnny Lately]

Re: .260 Pros/Cons?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Essential</div><div class="ubbcode-body">One thing I haven't seen mentioned about the 260 vs other popular 6.5's is overall length. If you are using a mag system you may run out of room with the heavier bullets if you want to jam or are chasing the lands. This isn't the case with the 6.5x47 or 6.5 CM. Just throwing a possible con using some DBM systems </div></div>

That's what's happened to me. I'm right at the very edge of mag length in my DBM.

 

[TexasShadow]

Re: .260 Pros/Cons?

I have seen the 260 6.5CM and 6.5x47Lapua in action.IMO the 6.5x47 is the best.Against 1-260 and 2-6.5CM rifles,the 6.5x47 lapua was the faster and more accurate overall on the Chrony and on the firing line.My 6.5x47 Lapua out performed the other two calibers all the way out to 1760yds.Yeilding 7 out of 25 hits on a 25x15inch IPSC Target.We were shooting 139 Scenars and 142SMKs.The 260 and 6.5CM are great rounds but I will take 6.5x47 Lapua all day long!

 

[bowslngr]

Re: .260 Pros/Cons?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TexasReaperM40</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have seen the 260 6.5CM and 6.5x47Lapua in action.IMO the 6.5x47 is the best.Against 1-260 and 2-6.5CM rifles,the 6.5x47 lapua was the faster and more accurate overall on the Chrony and on the firing line.My 6.5x47 Lapua out performed the other two calibers all the way out to 1760yds.Yeilding 7 out of 25 hits on a 25x15inch IPSC Target.We were shooting 139 Scenars and 142SMKs.The 260 and 6.5CM are great rounds but I will take 6.5x47 Lapua all day long! </div></div>

Seems to me that if your 6.5x47 is faster than the 260s or 6.5 CMs you are shooting next to it is because you are just pushing the bullets harder (and your pressure limits).

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: .260 Pros/Cons?

I think the .260 Rem is a very fortunate combination of case capacity and bullet capability. IMHO, it maximizes the capability of the .308 parent case.

Ballistically, it matches the trajectories of the .300WM and some very efficient .30-'06 loads. For delivering downrange energy, it catches up to the .308 out (I'm guessing here) around 700yd, and thereafter surpasses it out to its effective range (which I would conservatively suggest is still good at 1100yd, and maybe somewhat beyond that. I base my estimates on the longest distance at which I have actually fired the cartridge personally. BTW, I did that with a 24" barrel and uncomfortably hot loads.) If you need more energy than that out there and past, switch to the .300WM.

In recent years, the .260 has been a bit of a Red-Headed Stepchild where ammo manufacturers are concerned. IMHO, they missed a good bet. Some smaller ammo makers have offered decent loads, and for many, that's an excellent answer.

Others, like myself, employ nonstandard barrels (usually longer than some consider practical), That's where I'm guessing those elusive 2850fps, etc., velocities are found. I get mine with a 28" barrel, and manage to do it with not quite max loads (43.8-43.9gr H-4350/140-142gr Match bullets). For some of us, handloading still makes sense, but the right ammo is slowly becoming more abundant for the others.

If you are European and handload, Lapua is making brass soon available, their .243 brass already resizes easily to .260 Rem specs; and their 123 and 139gr Scenars are excellent projectiles. V-V N560 and N160 work well with the 139, and N550 and N150 would probably also be good with the 123 (I found N550 to be a bit too fast for 139's in my rifles, 40gr was blowing primers on hot days. This is what I was using at 1100yd).

Greg

 

[cuffm4615]

Re: .260 Pros/Cons?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: agr490</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I get 2750 with the 175 smk. I run 44.2 target cci br2 on a hornady case. Rifle is a 24 inch savage 10 fcp. Was checked last Saturday on my friends ohler chrono. </div></div>
Interesting! I average 2670 same exact load but Winchester brass. Is the Hornady brass "Match"?

 

[cuffm4615]

Re: .260 Pros/Cons?

Oh and I have a 26" BBL

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: .260 Pros/Cons?

Barrel length is not the only factor that affects velocities.

Bore diameters vary somewhat, as well as bullet bearing surface areas; and these also figure strongly in resulting velocities.

Greg

 

[cuffm4615]

Re: .260 Pros/Cons?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Barrel length is not the only factor that affects velocities.

Bore diameters vary somewhat, as well as bullet bearing surface areas; and these also figure strongly in resulting velocities.

Greg</div></div>

Gotcha ! So many factors involved in this game its hard to figure why things are a certain way sometimes.

 

[Johnny Lately]

Re: .260 Pros/Cons?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cuffm4615</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Barrel length is not the only factor that affects velocities.

Bore diameters vary somewhat, as well as bullet bearing surface areas; and these also figure strongly in resulting velocities.

Greg</div></div>

Gotcha ! So many factors involved in this game its hard to figure why things are a certain way sometimes.
</div></div>

At times it's simply overwhelming!

 

[psinclair]

Re: .260 Pros/Cons?

Or you could just drive 155 scenar's out of the Win mag at 3250fps.....a .260 wont come close to that.

 

[agr 490]

Re: .260 Pros/Cons?

Yes it is match brass. I run them just into the lands the lands. It also seems that my rifle has a tight chamber as the fired brass is very close to the same demension as sized brass. I get about 6 to 7 firings without trimming and if I do its only 2 thousands or so. Funny how every little thing adds up in this game.

 

[hammerhead]

Re: .260 Pros/Cons?

Essential,

In my .260 TRG, 123 &139 Scenars and 140 Amax still easily fit in the mag when jammed 20T. 140 Berger VLDs are just too long when jammed that much.

OALs (Jammed 20T)
123 Scenars 2.906"
139 Scenars 2.927"
140 Amax 2.920"
140 Berger 2.977"

My next barrel will suit mag fed Bergers.

 

[mavrick10_2000]

Re: .260 Pros/Cons?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: nut job</div><div class="ubbcode-body">@SS: How are you getting 2726 out of a 175 SMK 308 win round? 30" barrel? My accurate reloads are 2550 and factory FGMM loads are 2600. </div></div>

Not difficult at all with an aftermarket barrel. My TRG22 Factory 20" barrel gets 2600 with 178 AMAX at just above 44gr of Varget.

I've seen 24-26" barrels get over 2700 FPS with 175 SMK regularly without pressure signs. And both are accurate.

 

[mavrick10_2000]

Re: .260 Pros/Cons?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bowslngr</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TexasReaperM40</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have seen the 260 6.5CM and 6.5x47Lapua in action.IMO the 6.5x47 is the best.Against 1-260 and 2-6.5CM rifles,the 6.5x47 lapua was the faster and more accurate overall on the Chrony and on the firing line.My 6.5x47 Lapua out performed the other two calibers all the way out to 1760yds.Yeilding 7 out of 25 hits on a 25x15inch IPSC Target.We were shooting 139 Scenars and 142SMKs.The 260 and 6.5CM are great rounds but I will take 6.5x47 Lapua all day long! </div></div>

Seems to me that if your 6.5x47 is faster than the 260s or 6.5 CMs you are shooting next to it is because you are just pushing the bullets harder (and your pressure limits). </div></div>

6.5x47L is a high pressure cartridge to begin with. Very easy to tune a load for. But if you want top speeds with the heavies you're probably going to have to run Reloader or non "extreme" powders and give up some temp insensitivity. You simply don't have the case volume to take that much varget, or H4350 before pressure will get you (Generally).

 

[blurry6]

Re: .260 Pros/Cons?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Essential</div><div class="ubbcode-body">One thing I haven't seen mentioned about the 260 vs other popular 6.5's is overall length. If you are using a mag system you may run out of room with the heavier bullets if you want to jam or are chasing the lands. This isn't the case with the 6.5x47 or 6.5 CM. Just throwing a possible con using some DBM systems</div></div>

This is the only "downer" with the 260 - the typical long, sleek 6.5mm boat-tail bullets everyone loves to shoot out of these (myself included) tend to push the limit on most mag-fed actions - this doesn't allow the reloader a lot of wiggle room in regard to seating depth and having the ability to jam the lands,... or even get close to them and still maintain a workable mag-length cartridge. You can compensate, to a degree, by having your smith drop the amount of free-bore, but then you're dicking with SAAMI spec's and will need to account for it elsewhere - nothin' is free. I think the 6.5 Creedmore has a lot going for it in this regard as it addresses this issue with the simple solution of having the shoulder bumped back far enough to allow enough play in seating depth and still be within a workable mag length,... You should definitely check into it. I still love my little 260, but my next 6.5mm would probably be a 6.5 Creedmore, or a LA 6.5/284. Still a great cartridge through!

Ryan

 

[battlestick]

Re: .260 Pros/Cons?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: blurry6</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Essential</div><div class="ubbcode-body">One thing I haven't seen mentioned about the 260 vs other popular 6.5's is overall length. If you are using a mag system you may run out of room with the heavier bullets if you want to jam or are chasing the lands. This isn't the case with the 6.5x47 or 6.5 CM. Just throwing a possible con using some DBM systems</div></div>

I still love my little 260, but my next 6.5mm would probably be a 6.5 Creedmore, or a LA 6.5/284. Still a great cartridge through!

Ryan </div></div>

Not to be a turd - but why 6.5/284? I have to admit I had to go back and re-read the chuck hawks page as I am not familiar with it, however this is last little paragraph....

It is interesting that the top velocities listed for the 6.5mm-284 are identical to the top velocities for the .260 Remington (6.5mm-08) with the same bullet weights in the Hornady Handbook. The 6.5-284 just burns more powder to get there.

I am at the very beginning of a rebuild as I have been out of work for a few months and start a new job Monday. I was really interested in the 6.5's, but wanted more oomph. I will prob go 6.5x55 with my LA as I can them seat them wayyyy out there. Lapua brass, great BC bullets, light recoil, and not a ton of powder to get a 140 to 3kfps. What's not to like?

 

[raptor99]

Re: .260 Pros/Cons?

Trust me, the 6.5x47, the 260 and the creedmore are not even in the same class as a 6.5x284. I have a couple of 260s that I have rebarreled a couple of times and went through several 6.5x284s.

The 6.5x284 to a 260 is like a 300WM to a 30-06. The 6.5x284 is king of the 6.5s. Its very accurate and hard hitting. When I was shooting steel it sounded about the same as the 300WMs when you hit it.

I love the 260s but the 6.5x284 beats it in everyway hands down. The only down side of the 6.5x284 is barrel life!!
I was having to replace a barrel every winter when I was shooting a lot.

I also shoot the 6.5x55 now and love it. Its a nice compermise between the 260 class and the 6.5x284. You can load it down and get great barrel life (By using slow burning powders) or you can load it up to run close to a 6.5x284 but barrel life suffers.

I just got a straight 284 to try out I hope it will be as accurate as the 6.5x284s were.

 

[Hawk45]

Re: .260 Pros/Cons?

No downside to the .260 as long as you are a reloader.

 

[higginsworksforme]

Re: .260 Pros/Cons?

I'm seeing very little objective, empirical data in this thread.

 

[ChadTRG42]

Re: .260 Pros/Cons?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jrob300</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pat II</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Exterior ballistics of a .260 Remington are close/same to a .300 Win Mag. It does not deliver the same energy downrange.</div></div>

Not even close, try again. </div></div>

I'm confused by your response. I'd have to say I agree with Pat II.

The 300WM pushing 190's is not quite going to keep up with a .260 with 140 class bullets.

The 300WM with 208/210's will *slightly* outperform the .260 in ballistics to 1500 yds. with a growing advantage past that distance.

Where the 300WM *really* shines is downrange energy. NO COMPARISON. My 300WM at 2000 yds. has roughly the same velocity and energy as a 10mm Auto at muzzle.

John
</div></div>

Please show the numbers. Having an GAP AR 260 that shoots 139s at 2800 I'm sure it doesn't even come close to my A191 shooting the 190smk at 3050.

I'm leaving downrange energy out of it. Let's talk elevation and wind. </div></div>
Wow. Here is my field proven data from my TRG 42 300WM with a 190 SMK and the 2 bullets I use in my 260 Rem (both pointed 130 and 140 VLD's). Both 260 bullets are very close to a 300WM, and the 130 VLD exceeds the performace of the 300WM in wind and drop. So, stating the 300WM doesn't even come close to a 260 is incorrect. It comes close and even outperforms the 300WM when you look at the real data. All 3 are great long range calibers, and the 300WM does provide more energy on target. If I'm killing shit, I'll take a 300WM. For rapid fire, tactical shooting and playing the competition game, a 260 (or other short action 6.5mm variant) is as good as it gets.

The bottom table is the 130 VLD @ 2984 fps, which is what I shot at the Cup. The chart is at sea level with standard conditions (59 degrees, 29.92 pressure, 78% humidity, 0 altitude). At the Cup when the pressure was holding at 29.7 and 29.8 pressure, my dope was flatter than this 130 VLD chart to 1K.

 

[Pat M]

Re: .260 Pros/Cons?

OK, now try the 300wm using 190-220 Berger VLD's at 3100 and compare to the .260

I have both, and for long distance the 190 & 220 sure whop the hell out of the target compared to the 123 & 142

Putting VLD bullets against Sierra's HPBT's isn't apples to apples

 

[ChadTRG42]

Re: .260 Pros/Cons?

Yes. But in this example, it was stated the 190 SMK would outperform the 260. That's not the case.
I'm even playing with the new 225 grain Hornady BTHP n h 300WM, and this should trump the 208 A-max/210 VLD performance at extreme long range.

 

[Pat M]

Re: .260 Pros/Cons?

Just saying , they try and say the .260 is almost like a 300wm ( yes if you give the .260 a very good bullet and a high end velocity & the 300wm a ok bullet and a conservitive velocity )

 

[jrob300]

Re: .260 Pros/Cons?

Part of the reason these threads become pissing matches is because we're comparing numbers on paper. Go shoot 1000 yds or further. Watch trace. *THEN* you'll really see differences. Or not.

300WM vs. .308. Any bullet. Massive trace difference.

300WM vs. .260? Negligible.

My 300WM with its best load vs. my buddies 7STW shooting 165 Nosler's at nearly 3300 fps? Hah! You would have thought I was shooting the .308 by comparison. My trace was a rainbow and his was a laser to 1000 yds.

John