260 Rem

[2flhdn]

Good evening all,

I need you all to take a look at my series of targets. It seems like nothing I do or try works.

The rifle stats:

Rem trued action
Krieger heavy with 8.5 twist 24" long
Jewel trigger
Manners stock
Night force 3.5-15x 56
Badger Ord 20 MOA base

Currently I feel like I'm keeping Lapua, and several powder companies in business with this rifle. The target below only shows 123 grain bullets. Trust me I have tried every thing from 95 grainers all the way to 142s. Noslers, Hornadies, Bergers, sierras, every bullet out there for the .260 the 123s shoot the best.

Anyways please take a look and give me your thoughts. it shoots okay; however, constancy is just not there. Give me your thoughts.

Thanks in advance,

Jake

 

[buffybuster]

Could be a loose nut behind the trigger.

 

[GhengisAhn175]

Send me your h4350 and the bullets you got left and I'll test them.

Did you rule out your fundamentals? I'd suggest making a 6 rounds of a few loads and let someone else shoot. Have them do two groups of 3 (gives you more data to work with) .

Pick a shooter who really can shoot well . If results are similar you can be a bit more assured that it's the weapon and not you two (two people gives a BETTER idea, not 100% the gun is fucked up).

Next I'd check to see if you have any loose parts (scope, trigger, barrel assembly, etc). Start from muzzle to butt stock and check for any loose parts. If you can wiggle the barrel off the stock for example, you know that's an / the issue there.

Keep it at 100 yards.

I'm also assuming you're an experienced hand loader and the loads not extremely short or long and jammed into the lands. It would be nice when you do the group testing if you can throw in 1 box of factory 260 ammo (remington core lock with 50% reduced kick is pretty cheap and good at
100 yards).

You didn't tell us any gunsmith info (don't need to ) but if you feel that he didn't do a good job, do the muzzle to buttstock inspection for loose parts before you shoot again.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[bhoges]

Welcome to my world. My 260 is a full custom and has been a thorn in my side as well . Neskia Model K repeater, Mcmillan prone stock bedded by them, two shilen Select match barrels 1/8 and a 1/9. I just had a 308,6mmbr and 223 build and all tac drivers. Ive gone over everything from headspace, bore, crown, trigger, barrel torque you name it. Guess it just happens. Some rifles fight you tooth and nail for the sweet load.

 

[Elite_KG]

Just glancing I would work more with the H4350 123 gr sierra load. It looks the most promising. Seating depths? Different shooter? Just to get more info in that load.

 

[Theunforgiven]

Have you tried changing the cols from touching the groves to go a bit below minimum requirements. Changing the col has really done it for me on the 6.5x55 and my 308.


...
If you snooze it - you loose it

 

[mk44666]

I am currently in the process of load development on my dta srs 260 139 lapua scenars 31gr h4350 fed gold medal primer seated .005 off of the lands lapua brass produces 3/8 moa at 100 yds. The same results have come from 42gr h4350 no pressure signs yet so increasing charge slowly looking for moa improvement and pressure signs. I don't know if you have tried different seating depths or not but some bullets react differently to seating depth. I hope this helps you find the results you are looking for.

 

[LoanHarvey]

My smith recommended to take a serious look at RL19

 

[Mr. Burns]

Double check you are getting a consistent and solid cheek weld and the parallax on your scope is set correctly.

 

[Punisher29073]

Seating depth has made crazy amounts of difference in my experience. Has turned two of my guns from 1 1/4" guns to .5-.6" guns.

Ryan

 

[seanhagerty]

139 Lapua Scenars about 20 thou off the lands. Develop an H4350 load from there. If you are using lapua brass, look at abou 42.5 or 42.6gr.

 

[Deleted member 10043]

I only know one person that shoots .260 Rem and he uses H4831. That is one of the best shooting rifles I have seen in a while. He has been knocking the socks of 6BR rifles. I think that is funny because for a while it appeared to be an equipment race until this guy dumped his .243 and picked up a nice used custom .260 at a bargain. Hope you get it straightened out. Stay with it.

 

[LRJammer]

Strange. I have had 3 260s and had no problem whatsoever getting sub 1/2 MOA accuracy out of them with minimal testing. There was some testing involved in getting them down to 1/4 MOA and less, but that is pretty much to be expected.

 

[Sniper260]

I like to think that I have a little more experience with a 260 than most, I have had good luck with what I have done in the past with a 260... And I have and shoot several different 6.5 calibers, I love a 6.5 bullet! take this all as you may, PM me if you want to chat a little more in depth with this all.

I agree with most here on things to check, have someone else shoot it that shoots better than you, etc etc etc thats been said. I have had pretty good luck with my custom 260s that Ive built... Many people have said, and you will read a lot that 260s are a thorn in their side and they cant get them running right...

Now, with the pics you have posted the H4350 is your powder. This is what I run too, as do most people. Your groups with the H4350 are good. I'm fairly certain that your load is in the 41-42.5 range. Play with these loads more. DO NOT shoot them at 100 yards. load test at at least 200 to 300 yards.

Forget about other powders... you got what its going to take already.

I think you said your running a 2nd focal plane scope, make sure your cheek weld is in the same spot every time. A little advice here.. get a little tube of silicone.. lay on your rifle, find the exact spot that your cheek needs to be, take your time.. then put a dab of silicone on the top of the comb there on the stock and let it dry... it peels off easy enough if you don't get it in the right spot the first or even second time.. after it is dry lay on the rifle again and find exactly where that dab of silicone rest on your cheek/face... then every time you shoot make sure your face cheek is anchored with the dab in the exact same place every time... This will give your the best anchor point to insure that you have the exact same hold every time. Some rifles like to be held loose, others like to be held tight, find what the rifle likes and how you shoot best. Get your fundamentals perfect here... easy enough..

I shoot 140 gr bergers and run a 8 twist barrel... YOUR RIFLE WILL NOT SHOOT THESE CORRECTLY. There is a different 260 chamber designed to shoot 140 bergers. 142 gr sierras are more geared towards a 6.5x284, forget about these heavier bullets.

You need to stick with 120gr to 130gr bullets. Brass prep is ALWAYS a HUGE deal with tits cutting accuracy, research and hone in your brass prep skills, its amazing how much of a difference tedious brass prep makes. WHAT BRASS are you running? FL resizing or just neck sizing? Primers? I recommend you use a match primer. Many cant tell the difference using a match primer, but there is more consistency usually. AND CONSISTENCY IN EACH ASPECT IS KEY!

reload 5 rounds of H4350.... 41.0 gr to 45.5 gr in .2 incriments... 41.0, 41.2, 41.4, 41.6, 41.8 etc etc... ONLY LOAD TEST on nice CALM mornings before there is any heat waves, wind or anything... pick the right conditions to test in... just gives you better results and info to go by... When testing take a break between shots, dont heat up the barrel... take your time. make sure to have a heck of a study shooting foundation to shoot from, sand bagged is usually best for me when testing.

What scope rings do you have and scope base? NO ALUMINUM. Metal is just stronger and works better imo. DO NOT have a metal scope ring base, and aluminum rings, or aluminum base with metal rings... its either aluminum and aluminum or metal and metal... cant mix them, both metals have different properties and do not tighten to each other well.

123gr bullets, I think the hornady 123 Amax is one of the most popular. thats what I shoot in a 6.5 grendel. They are awesome bullets if thats what you are using.

Do you have a muzzle brake on it at all? There is a thing called muzzle brake pull off that could be doing this if you do have one.

Some wont agree, but its been working for years for me developing loads, and helped a lot with 6.5 cals... find your max seating depth first... then back off that a hair and test all the loads at this same seating depth.. once you find the best powder charge, then go back and play with seating depth at minUTE changes at a time...

get back to me if you try all this and lemme know what happens. I'm willing to bet that you will see better results if you try this all. Don't jump around on different bullets too much developing loads too. powder charge is going to make the biggest difference here with this caliber. the 260 is finicky, so just relax and take your time. If you find yourself getting aggravated or pissed off during load testing just stop... You will be wasting money as your body wont be relaxed anymore... been there more than once haha.

send me a PM and tell me how you reload, steps you take what you do.. brass prep.. what tools you use to do it etc.. many times there is a key step thats missing that helps a lot with people that I have helped out. I have a few buddies that have seen me run my 260 and have jumped on board and bought 260s too that I have been currently helping out with load development and stuff...

Let me know if I can help you more if you decide that my opinion has helped! in the end each to their own.

 

[DAVETOOLEY]

Reamer specs? Adjust seating depth and try other bullets.
In order of priority for me.
1. The rifle has to like the bullet. You can't force feed one no matter how inexpensive they were.
2. Adjust the seating depth. This can be like throwing a switch.
3. Then play with the powder charge. Start with a mid load based on pressure. Adjust slightly as you go from touching the lands to off the lands. Vertical usually means low pressure.

 

[2flhdn]

All thank you for the imput. I will try it all, and see what happens. I will post results in the coming weeks.

To answer some questions:

I neck size only
Lapua brass
Fed match primers
steel rings not sure about badger bass
no muzzle brake
Cant find sierra 123s

 

[stockdoc]

I have three different custom 260's by three different custom houses. All of them shoot way better than I can. My load is 47 gr of 4831sc at the prescribed length each rifle requires, rem brass, 210 or 210m primer (whichever is available at the time, no performance difference noted), 139 gr lapua scenar bullet. I trickle each and every powder charge to the exact grain. Tried 4350 for awhile but it gave me some goofy results in hot temps. Went back to 4831sc and never looked back.

Heres some questions about your set up

Rem trued action- are your firing pin indentations on the primers centered?

Krieger heavy with 8.5 twist 24" long-check the muzzle crowns for burrs

Jewel trigger-does it touch anywhere inside the stock (I have had this happen to me on a couple of builds)?

Manners stock-is it a chasis? Properly bedded? Barrel channel clear? Stock screws tight?

Night force 3.5-15x 56-is your reticle focused to your eye? Are the ring tops tight? Are the rings tight to the base?

Badger 20 moa base-are ALL your base screws tight?

I hope the answer to those questions will help you figure out whats going on. Good luck

 

[Fly_True]

What are your velocities? Are you getting any massive fps spreads? This could give you a lot more great information to look at to try and decipher your issue...

The last two load workups I did I didn't even bother attempting to shoot a group until I found a good fps node to work off of. Looking for the lowest ES essentially WITHOUT any pressure signs of course. I usually take my load workup up to seeing pressure signs and then come down to the next node under that limit. Gives some good wiggle room in the event of temp changes and condition changes in the field.

As someone else mentioned, seating depths are important. Some bullets are REALLY picky and others tend to give you lost of fudge factor high or low. Personally I found two great loads with 142 SMK's, seated to 15-20 thou off the lands, Lapua Brass, 210M primer, H4350@ 43.4 grs pushing 2830 fps and then another solid node running 44.0 grs pushing 2860. Both nodes had an extreme spread of 11 or less fps. Both are 1/3 minute loads for me (better than I can shoot and the errors are likely in my hands and not the rifle). I'm running a defiance action, 24" bartlein, brake, Timney Calvin, XLR Chassis and a Vortex Razor HD II glass.

 

[AMG04]

Double check you are getting a consistent and solid cheek weld and the parallax on your scope is set correctly.

Another vote for checking parallax and ensuring consistent eye relief and cheek weld.

 

[oldfatguy]

Have had very good results using Dan Newberry's OCW method to work up 260 loads. I seat .025" off the lands for the basic OCW charge weight work up then run it again to find the best seating depth.

SMK 107s, Varget, neck turned Lapua brass, and Fed 210M primers cosistantly put 5 rounds in >.375" at 100 yds.

OFG

 

[308220]

Play with seating depths and neck tension when seating.


All this brass prep talk makes shooting sound more and more like a job and not a fun hobby. When shooting feels like a job/chore, youre approaching it wrong. Keep it fun. You can shoot 1/2 moa and under without all that brass prepping. I do. And I only neck size, debur and clean primer pockets. Basics.

 

[Steel head]

Play with seating depths and neck tension when seating.


All this brass prep talk makes shooting sound more and more like a job and not a fun hobby. When shooting feels like a job/chore, youre approaching it wrong. Keep it fun. You can shoot 1/2 moa and under without all that brass prepping. I do. And I only neck size, debur and clean primer pockets. Basics.

This!

Beyond a double check for gun(or shooter) issues I'd try a few bullets at a few seating depths.
Once I find a bullet that seems to have potential I start with different powders if I'm not quite happy.

 

[dpsthomas]

I'm going through the same thing with my .308. I had a Remington 700 ltr that shot really well until I completed my "upgrades" as shooters tend to do. I first tuned the trigger to about 2.5 lbs. The decided to upgrade the stock, bottom metal, barrel..... Now it's a completely different gun. Manners t4-a with mini-chassis, 1 in 11.25 5r Bartlein m24 barrel, heavy lug, action trued, ya know "the works". AND IT SHOOTS HORRIBLY! I went from shooting 3/4 moa easily with the stock rifle to shooting 1.5-2 moa groups that look a lot like yours, which leave me scratching my head. The groups are strange in that they aren't even consistently bad. Each group shows different characteristics which make it difficult to diagnose. I took it out yesterday with 4 of my best loads, 175 black hills, and 175 fgmm. All were 1.5 or larger. So now I'm going over this rifle and my shooting technique with a fine toothed comb to try and figure out what's going on. (Any shooters willing to volunteer their skills to test this rifle in the Greenville, SC area?) The only thing I can think to do is bed the recoil lug and or work on my technique with the new stock/barrel setup. I'm thinking that since this is the first rifle I've had with this type of stock and this heavy of a barrel that I might need to adjust how I handle it. We'll see. Needless to say, I'm really interested to see what you find out.

 

[Red_SC]

If you don't get it figured out, bring it down one day and we'll get you squared away.

 

[mattsnuked]

You seem to be stringing most of the groups in your pics. If you feel it is not your shooting ability you should provide velocities, seating depth, and neck tension. If you can't get 139 Scenars to shoot 20 thou off and 2 thou neck tension IMO you have a bad barrel or something as before mentioned is out of whack.

 

[andydrose72]

I am assuming these are 100 yard groups? If so I would try your tests at 300 yards or farther. Best load I found for my 260 will only shoot about .75 inches at 100 yards on any given day but it will hold that .75 inches out to 300 yards pretty consistently. The biggest it gets at 300 is about 1.5 inches, after that im not sure because all I shoot is steel past 300 with it and I never bother to repaint for groups, I just shoot till I can see it anymore then repaint it.

 

[Clusterfrack]

My 142smk .260 load is very similar to Fly_True's: 43.6 H4350 in Lapua brass at 2850fps from an AIAE with a Bartlein 24". It's sub 1/3moa

 

[2flhdn]

Well as it turns out it was my night force. Not sure what is wrong with it, but tried a different scope and is now consistently shooting 1/4" groups at 100.. Thanks for all the input.

Jake

 

[Deleted member 10043]

Tee hee. Nightforce.

 

[6.5BR]

Lesson learned - use a bad scope - while refining loads and technique. Then mount a good scope - Voila!!
Glad problem solved.
Re: comments in Aluminum vs "metal" scope mounts. Is Aluminum non-metal?!?
Best groups I ever shot was w a 6BR - 66s and 105s both 1/4" at 200 yds. That Stiller action had Talley "METAL" ALL ALUMINUM - ALL IN ONE SCOPE MOUNTS.....

 

[Steel head]

Well as it turns out it was my night force. Not sure what is wrong with it, but tried a different scope and is now consistently shooting 1/4" groups at 100.. Thanks for all the input.

Jake

Glad you got it figured out.