Range Report .260 round and competition.

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: .260 round and competition.

I doubt you'll have subpar velocity issues with a 22-24" barrel. As long as you can get a 142SMK up to 2400fps, you'll still be just under 1200fps at 1Kyd, altitude 1000ft. Savage 24" barrel made 2900fps with a max/overload charge of 139 Scenar/40(41?)gr V-V N550, 2700fps is neither unreasonable nor difficult to achieve. Hodgdon specifies a load of 37.5gr of Varget delivering 2645fps in a 'rifle barrel' of unspecified length. My 28" uses 43.8gr H4350 to get the 142 up to 2850fps. That's a moderate load, but I think the powder may be a bit slow for a gas gun.

 

[goober]

Re: .260 round and competition.

Anyone have experience with 260rem and a 19inch barrel ? Ive just re-barreled day before yesterday and trying to put a load togeather for 130 grain diamond line normas .548bc.I am using
(ADI 2209 POWDER =H4350) I know there is a fair bit out there using longer barrels but havent seen much with below 20 inch barrels -id use 123gr lapua sceners but they are nearly 35% more to buy here and not always available -the ills of being way down under-anyway a few comments on what I might expect in velocities without having the Rem brass grow a big ass would be much appreciated [img:center]http://brianherlihy.myphotoalbum.com/view_photo.php?set_albumName=album02&id=pot_1385[/img]

 

[goober]

Re: .260 round and competition.

Today I went out and fired a few rounds with my new 19inch flutted barrel.I loaded ADI 2209 44 gr in Rem 260 brass with Winchester LR primmers and an average speed of
2710fps. I got at least one case that had gas release through the primer pocket but in general the cases appeared ok -will check them when I re-prime them. .The group from today is .4 -5 shot group at 110 yards with wind blustering 4-13 miles per hour.Im not the greatest shot but wasnt unhappy with this given conditions and every thing being new.Here are a few images of the build done at True Flight Barrels in New Zealand -Barnard Action , True Flight Barrel ,Timminy trigger , AICS stock and AU Jet suppressor

http://brianherlihy.myphotoalbum.com/view_album.php?set_albumName=album15

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: .260 round and competition.

If you had a pressure excursion around the primer cup I'd suggest presssure is higher than your brass can tolerate. Taking a wild guess, I'd be be thinking that your primer pockets may now be a fair bit looser after firing than before loading.

If this is actually the case, now would be a good moment to pause and ask why.

44.0gr of H4350 is not an overmax load with 142SMK's and if you're using a lighter bullet, I'd be seeing warning flags at this point. A tight bore, a 'hard' bullet, or seating long enough to jam the bullet could all be potential causes.

In any case, the outcome does not auger well for case/primer pocket life. I'd do <span style="font-style: italic">something</span> to resolve a possible pressure issue before continuing on the same path.

Greg

 

[lawrence97]

Re: .260 round and competition.

I just tested 42.9 of H4350 with fed. primers and 142 SMK using Lapua 243 brass and my velocity was an average of 2940 for 11 rounds, es=31 and sd=9.
The bad news is that my brass is toasted after one loading as the load completely opened up the primer pockets making primer seating a breeze with just the push of a finger !!!

I suggest extreme caution when going past 42 grs. using the above load combo.

 

[goober]

Re: .260 round and competition.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you had a pressure excursion around the primer cup I'd suggest presssure is higher than your brass can tolerate. Taking a wild guess, I'd be be thinking that your primer pockets may now be a fair bit looser after firing than before loading.

If this is actually the case, now would be a good moment to pause and ask why.

44.0gr of H4350 is not an overmax load with 142SMK's and if you're using a lighter bullet, I'd be seeing warning flags at this point. A tight bore, a 'hard' bullet, or seating long enough to jam the bullet could all be potential causes.

In any case, the outcome does not auger well for case/primer pocket life. I'd do <span style="font-style: italic">something</span> to resolve a possible pressure issue before continuing on the same path.

Greg </div></div> Yes , I will definately review this load Greg .I only had one piece of brass show gas leakage and a very little shinning on the back some of the cases , all signs though.Could one expect less pressure signs necking up or down lapua brass?Also I had someone inform me Lapua was intending to manufacture 260 brass -total bull I imagine ?

 

[Wil]

Re: .260 round and competition.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ch'e</div><div class="ubbcode-body">... I had someone inform me Lapua was intending to manufacture 260 brass -total bull I imagine ? </div></div>

Complete and total BULL...

with the new 6.5x47 out they will not be manufacturing any .260

that is a 'competing' cartridge so to speak...

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: .260 round and competition.

There was a magazine article which alluded to Lapua .260 brass. EMail dialogued with the mag editor, and the idea is a non-starter. At the time, it was not in the works, and I've heard nothing since.

Necking down, necks could get thicker; necking up, not so. BUT, neck donuts could become an issue after several firings with the neck-up. Neck i.d. should be measured at the mouth AND where neck and shoulder join. If it's narrower at the neck/shoulder junction, a deeply seated bullet <span style="font-style: italic">could</span> generate a pressure problem.

I've never had such pressure problems, so I tend to forget about donut issues, but it's well worth considering.

Greg

 

[Jedi]

Re: .260 round and competition.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Quote from Boot's Obermeyer.

"Each of the several chrome-moly match rifle barrels
in .260 Remington that I have used in conjunction with moly-coated bullets has exceeded 6000 rounds of accurate life."</div></div>

barrel life is a none issue i would say based on that and lets face this guy know a thing or to....i drank the koolaid

I run that new fancy boronslickerthansnot stuff, with a mild load 58K psi ...should be good for 5000 or so 6.5x47

 

[Deisel]

Re: .260 round and competition.

When I was at the last SHOT show, I talked to the Lapua rep there and asked him about the possibility of Lapua .260 brass and he said there were no plans to do that.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: .260 round and competition.

No need. Run Laupa .243 through a F/L dies with a sizer ball (preferably elliptical), and 'Presto' it's .260. As above, BOLO for donuts.

Me, I use Win .243 and am as happy as a clam in mud...

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: .260 round and competition.

I need to make something clear, before folks mistake me for somebody who walks on water. I appreciate the confidence and faith folks show in me, and I make a really honest effort to be worthy of it.

But people need to keep a sense of perspective.

I am not somebody who can be counted upon to diagnose and solve problems over the Internet, and especially ones involving handloading and safe loads. Further, I'm not sure I know anyone who can, nor am willing to utterly trust anyone who tries.

A healthy grain of disbelief is in order here.

I will help folks if I can, and if I think certain ideas will work within reason and safely, I'll make the suggestion. But never, never, never take anything I or anyone else says on the Internet as an excuse to ignore basic principles of safety and caution. I would be out of my mind and doubt the sanity fo anyone else who tells you they know all the asnwers, and are/am infallible. I ain't. Trust me at YOUR OWN RISK, not mine; I make no promises, and assume no responsibility for anything my own hands do not touch.

There; I feel better now...

Oh, sorry...; it was just gas...

Greg

 

[81sfo]

Re: .260 round and competition.

tag.

 

[6.5BR]

Re: .260 round and competition.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: deisel</div><div class="ubbcode-body">When I was at the last SHOT show, I talked to the Lapua rep there and asked him about the possibility of Lapua .260 brass and he said there were no plans to do that. </div></div>

Funny, I did the same in Jan. NO GO. Their loss. Was told by someone that knows them well, Lapua folks are hard to deal with....

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: .260 round and competition.

Pressure excursions from a single case out of a lot that does not show similar pressure signs is often a sign that the case length has grown beyond safe spec. Check them all.

Greg

 

[yavapai kid]

Re: .260 round and competition.

I'm surprised the Sierra 6.5 123/.510 BC does not get a lot more play.
At 3,100 mv with a long barrel it looks to best the 140 class bullets on paper at least, with less recoil.

 

[ChadTRG42]

Re: .260 round and competition.

The 120's would not be a bad choice for close in work. But when going long, they do not buck the wind as good as the 140's. Plus, the heavier one's retain a lot more energy at distance.

123 SMK
Range Velocity Energy Elev Wind
(yards) (ft/sec) (ft-lbs) (moa) (moa)
0 3040 2523.9 --- ---
100 2850.6 2219.2 0 0.55
200 2669.1 1945.6 -1.33 1.12
300 2495.2 1700.3 -3.33 1.74
400 2328.5 1480.8 -5.66 2.39
500 2168.5 1284.3 -8.29 3.08
600 2014.2 1108 -11.22 3.83
700 1866.8 951.7 -14.49 4.63
800 1726.9 814.4 -18.13 5.49
900 1595 694.8 -22.2 6.41
1000 1472.3 592 -26.77 7.4
1100 1360.6 505.6 -31.9 8.46
1200 1261.7 434.7 -37.67 9.59
1300 1176.1 377.7 -44.16 10.76
1400 1107.1 334.8 -51.44 11.97
1500 1051.5 301.9 -59.56 13.19
1600 1005.7 276.2 -68.55 14.4
1700 967.6 255.7 -78.42 15.59
1800 935.3 238.9 -89.17 16.76

130 VLD
Range Velocity Energy Elev Wind
(yards) (ft/sec) (ft-lbs) (moa) (moa)
0 3000 2597.8 --- ---
100 2826.3 2305.7 0 0.51
200 2659.3 2041.2 -1.37 1.05
300 2498.7 1802.1 -3.39 1.62
400 2344.3 1586.4 -5.73 2.22
500 2195.8 1391.8 -8.34 2.86
600 2052 1215.4 -11.24 3.55
700 1913.9 1057.3 -14.43 4.27
800 1782 916.6 -17.96 5.05
900 1656.9 792.5 -21.87 5.89
1000 1539 683.7 -26.21 6.78
1100 1429.6 589.9 -31.04 7.72
1200 1330.1 510.7 -36.42 8.73
1300 1241.9 445.2 -42.41 9.79
1400 1165.4 392 -49.1 10.89
1500 1103.2 351.3 -56.52 12.01
1600 1052.1 319.5 -64.72 13.14
1700 1009.5 294.2 -73.73 14.27
1800 973.6 273.6 -83.55 15.37

140 VLD
Range Velocity Energy Elev Wind
(yards) (ft/sec) (ft-lbs) (moa) (moa)
0 2840 2507.2 --- ---
100 2684.3 2239.9 0 0.51
200 2534.3 1996.4 -1.59 1.05
300 2389.6 1775 -3.85 1.61
400 2250.2 1573.9 -6.43 2.21
500 2114.9 1390.3 -9.29 2.84
600 1984.1 1223.7 -12.44 3.51
700 1858.5 1073.7 -15.89 4.23
800 1738.6 939.6 -19.69 4.99
900 1624.5 820.3 -23.86 5.79
1000 1516.8 715.2 -28.46 6.65
1100 1416.6 623.8 -33.53 7.56
1200 1325.3 546 -39.15 8.52
1300 1243.6 480.8 -45.35 9.53
1400 1171.9 426.9 -52.21 10.57
1500 1112.7 384.9 -59.76 11.63
1600 1063.5 351.6 -68.05 12.7
1700 1022.1 324.7 -77.1 13.76
1800 986.8 302.7 -86.91 14.8

 

[yavapai kid]

Re: .260 round and competition.

Thanks for posting that.

Just comparing at 1000, pretty close aren't they.

123SMK 1000 1472.3 592 -26.77 7.4

130VLD 1000 1539 683.7 -26.21 6.78

140VLD 1000 1516.8 715.2 -28.46 6.65

 

[kombayotch]

Re: .260 round and competition.

Throw JLK's 140 in as well:

140JLK 1000 1588 783 -27.2 6.0

 

[ChadTRG42]

Re: .260 round and competition.

A high BC trumps all!

 

[kombayotch]

Re: .260 round and competition.

Its the combination of BC and how fast you drive it. Highest BC doesn't always win...

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: .260 round and competition.

My experience with 120's is that they work well, but would probably need a slower twist to be effective at greater distances. Their smaller mass equates to a higher muzzle velocity, producing a higher rifling RPM; but their shorter length requires less twist. This produces a degree of gyroscopic stability that resists aerodynamic forces trying to cause the bullet to reorient its axis parallel to the trajectory curve, which is more pronounced further out. Just when the velocity is dropping greatest and this aerodynamic tipping is at its least, the bullet still retains most of its angular velocity, so resistance to tipping actually becomes a far greater effect just when we'd most benefit from its absence.

Net effect; the bullet flies with its axis increasingly misaligned to its direction of travel, increasing (maybe more like multiplying) its overall aerodynamic drag. Calculated drops and drifts become inapplicable because the initial drag factors assume a point-on attitude and no longer represent the true conditions of flight. Time-of-flight is extended due to increased deceleration, and the effects of gravity and crosswinds are magnified.

Less twist = less gryoscopic force to overcome = less axis misalignemnt = less aerodynamic drag = greater LR velocity = less time of flight = less drop and drift.

Greg

 

[ArcticLight]

Re: .260 round and competition.

Put a 142gr SMK and run it as fast as you can...

 

[dar1246]

Re: .260 round and competition.

Greg, Would you shoot 123s more than 139s. I notice that some people are shooting lighter bullets to get more vel. than heaiver. Doesn't appear to be any difference in wind drift but about 2 moa less.
I get about 2850 with 139s now. So I figured about 2990fps for the 123s.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: .260 round and competition.

I shoot 142's at 2850.

 

[Rich Emmons]

Re: .260 round and competition.

I've been playing with the 130 gr. Norma's again, they print real good at 100 and 200yd plus they are about MIL flatter at 1000yds VS. 142SMK. another plus is they are pretty cheap!

 

[wnroscoe]

Re: .260 round and competition.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rich Emmons</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've been playing with the 130 gr. Norma's again, they print real good at 100 and 200yd plus they are about MIL flatter at 1000yds VS. 142SMK. another plus is they are pretty cheap! </div></div>

Been running the 130 Bergers at about 2,925 fps, H4350, WLR's. 25.25 moa to 1k, very little verticle.

 

[30cal user]

Re: .260 round and competition.

What is the cost of reloading a .260 Rem vs. 300 WM, for the people who have been doing it awhile?

6.5 CM at $1.198 (140/120 A-Max-Hornady)per unit seems good a non re-loader
260 rem is $1.60 (139 Scenar-Corbon)
300 WM is $1.75 (190 smk-Corbon)

all retail Midway prices

as a noob, just curious what you guys pencil for per unit cost, thanks.

 

[dar1246]

Re: .260 round and competition.

Here is the math on a 260 components.
139 Scenar 26 cents
Rem Brass 45 cents
Primer 30 cents
4831 powder 48grs 18cents
total of 1.19
give and take a penny or two.
The 300 would go mostly up due to the vol of powder.

 

[30cal user]

Re: .260 round and competition.

thanks....interesting...so $.41 savings per unit on the 260 Rem, that will add up quickly.

 

[Rich Emmons]

Re: .260 round and competition.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">primer .30 cents?</div></div>
mine are about 4 cents.
bullet .26
brass .45
powder.18

total .93 cents/loaded round
next batch is only .48 cents a piece cuz brass is free.

reloading calculator

 

[dar1246]

Re: .260 round and competition.

That is true. Once the brass is purchased. That expense is no longer in the bottom line. But that would also be true about the other loads.

 

[30cal user]

Re: .260 round and competition.

thanks guys, i didnt include shipping cost in mine and i dont see where you have accounted for your re-loading equipment or for your time. do you include initial cost of equipment in cost for each unit or do you just figure the first one cost $2500 (a guess) and the rest are $.98 per unit...i guess this is off topic a bit...sorry...i am new and curious...

 

[dar1246]

Re: .260 round and competition.

The cost of reloading would depend on the amount of shooting. If I was only to shoot 100 to 200 rounds a month. I might consider not to reload but to find a factory round that would shoot good.
If you are shooting above these limits. Every cent counts. You get a more custom load for your gun. Every handload will be cheaper than factory usually by 1 dollar. The reason is brass.
If you spend 2500 on reloading equipment. You might have bought a little to much. Should be able to buy all your stuff for around 500 to 1500 depending equipment. Shoot 1500 rounds equipment is now paid for.

 

[30cal user]

Re: .260 round and competition.

thx, appreciate the knownledge!

 

[Tom Sarver]

Re: .260 round and competition.

Shooters,

I use .260 Norma brass, fed 210 primers, 42.5 of H4350 ,SMK 142 and run them 2878 fps. Awesome accuracy out to 1650 yards. I know it's not intended for that but it will do it just fine. Primer pockets are fine....so far.

Tom

 

[Rich Emmons]

Re: .260 round and competition.



how long is your barrel, maker?

 

[Tom Sarver]

Re: .260 round and competition.

Rich,

Barrel is a 1.250" to .900" HV 28.5" long 8 twist Krieger SS

 

[RayDog]

Re: .260 round and competition.

I get 2980 with 44 of RL17 and a 26" tube shooting the 139s. Big Horn Action is the BOMB.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: .260 round and competition.

I've been running HDY 95gr V-Max at various load levels, right on up to max over the past six months, and I gotta say, they are one tough bullet. They are not blowing up, period, despite max loads in a 28" 1:8" barrel. I am estimating peak velocities in the 3200-3400fps range.

But I don't seem to be able to find that match grade accuracy. At 200yd, I still have rounds leaking out of the 4" circle. There's also a very good likelihood that many of the 'leakers' are the product of faulty marksmanship on my part. It's been a tough year for me, made tougher by impatience and frustration.

I'm taking the Winter completely off from shooting, and getting away to Florida to wait out the weather. In the Spring, I'll be starting from scratch with the basics, working my way back from there. There's more than the rifle and ammo that needs work here.

Greg

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: .260 round and competition.

Finally, on reviewing this entire thread, I keep coming back to the pressure excursions with a small percentage of loads from a single batch.

In my limited experience, batches that are made with care and still exhibit these symptoms tend to have something going on in the neck area that curtails the bullet's release. First thing I'd check is excessive case length, which tends to appear in just a few cases from a batch at first. Check them <span style="font-style: italic">all</span>.

Greg

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: .260 round and competition.

Looking at this and other threads, I see a lot of interest in the .260, .260AI, 6.5x55, 6.5-284, and 6.5CM.

Of these, the only one I see being really comfortable in a short action is the 6.5CM. For the conventional shooter, the others would appear to be more comfortable in a long action.

But that's not really a cut and dried hard rule. It depends on your shooting regimen, and on your willingness to think just a single step out of the box.

If you're loading multiple rounds in the magazine, action length and bullet jump can be at odds.

If you can manage single feeding, there's till the matter of extracting an unfired round.

This is where we step outside the box. While bolt travel limits the COAL that will effortlessly extract/eject from the chamber, bolt travel can be extended using the bolt release. With a little bit of foresight and practice, this operation can become very accustomed, and remove itself from the list of objections.

So, I can see some advantage to the 6.5CM in shooting regimens that favor multiple loading. Otherwise, I see it as a cartridge with less case capacity than the others.

On a range of capacities from 6.5CM to 6.5-284, there's significant differences. IMHO, the most ideal capacity is with the 6.5x55. Not sure, but I rank it pretty much dead even with the .260AI. Given the choice, I will always favor a production cartridge over a wildcat, all other things being equal. This point is based on the proliferation of production cartridges, which often makes AI mods pointless. While I admire the inroads that Team Savage has made in International F Class competition using the 6.5-284, I also note that barrel replacement is a very central part of their strategic thinking. Not mine, despite my acknowledgement that no barrel lives forever. I don't have the kind of resources or support those folks have, and barrel replacement is not looked forward to eagerly in my humble abode.

So, while I humbly concede the 6.5-284 it's superior ballistics, I still gladly soldier on with the .260. I see it as a sorta tortoise/hare thing.

Greg

 

[dar1246]

Re: .260 round and competition.

Raydog that is smoking with the 139s.

 

[Pat Thomas]

Re: .260 round and competition.

tag

 

[81STFACP]

Re: .260 round and competition.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RayDog</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I get 2980 with 44 of RL17 and a 26" tube shooting the 139s. Big Horn Action is the BOMB. </div></div>

what sort of accuracy are you getting with this combo?