Range Report .260 vs. .243 for competition

[LoneWolfUSMC]

I have NO experience with either of these chamberings, but I find myself looking at purchasing a new stick for tactical competitions. I have been having to make too many compromises with my duty rifle I also want to try new things, which is NOT a good idea with a duty rifle.

This will be on a 700 short action (unless someone can give me a REAL good reason to go long action). I have a certificate for a Remington Factory Rifle (VIP Price) and was thinking about going with a .243 SPS-V and dropping it into a Manners T4A. If I was going to go the .260 route it would be a bit more expensive since I would just get the .308 SPS-V or SPS and pull the barrel.

What I really want to know is which cartridge is going to have the advantage for 1000 yard shooting at different elevations, in different temps, in different parts of the country.

I know I will probably not get a definite answer, but maybe someone will hit some points I didn't consider.

I do reload and rarely shoot factory ammo. Local component availability isn't much of a concern since I order most of my components my mail anyway.

I don't mind lugging a little extra weight if it's needed and the rifle will eventually be setup with a Surgeon or Badger magazine system.

I have read a bunch of postings on both cartridges, but I just seem to be going around in circles.

Thanks.

 

[BOLTRIPPER]

Re: .260 vs. .243 for competition

my thoughts are for the .260

i have seen WAY too many show up in the winners circle in five different states that i go to....your mileage will not vary

 

[deadly0311]

Re: .260 vs. .243 for competition

both are relative barrel burners. The 260 lets you push the heavies a little faster, and in the 260 you can get by with a shorter "er" barrel. The 243 pushes some good pills ( 115 DTAC) pretty well, but to take full advantage you need 25 plus in the barrel length. Both are great rounds ballistically, i would ask you what all you had in mind for the comp rifle? IE barrel length goal, speed, and then since you dont shoot factory stuff much, id also look and see which components are cheaper. I have a 308,6x47 Lapua, and 243. I know this isnt much help but think along the lines of 4000 rds if you push fast loads in both calibers

 

[jasonk]

Re: .260 vs. .243 for competition

243 and 260 is awfully close BC wise, etc. 243s you can launch a little quicker, but maybe less barrel life. 260 shoots a heavier bullet and I've heard that some guys feel in comps where you're shooting a lot of steel that an edge hit can be missed by the spotter with the 243 where the 260 hits with more energy and the hits are called correctly.

Can't go wrong either way, I like and own the 243 but plan on a 260 in 2010 too. If budget is a concern the Rem Varmint 243 would be a great place to start and then upgrade the barrel when the time comes. You should be able to shoot the 105 Amaxs and you'll be giving up very little compared to the customs shooting the 115 dtacs w/ 1-7.5 twists. As you know when the time comes to rebarrel you can go to 260 at that point or sport the fast twist 243.

For the bottom metal, I'd go Surgeon.

 

[Onemoretime]

Re: .260 vs. .243 for competition

Here is a comparison for you.

6.5 140gr VLD @ 2850fps
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Code:</div><div class="ubbcode-body ubbcode-pre" ><pre>
Range Drop Drop Windage Windage Velocity
(yd) (mil) (in) (mil) (in) (ft/s)
1000 -7.8 -281.3 1.7 61.7 1607.6

</pre></div></div>

.243 115 DTAC @ 2950fps
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Code:</div><div class="ubbcode-body ubbcode-pre" ><pre>
Range Drop Drop Windage Windage Velocity
(yd) (mil) (in) (mil) (in) (ft/s)
1000 -7.5 -271.2 1.8 64.9 1599.7
</pre></div></div>

I know some guys push these faster but these are reasonable.

 

[Scimitar]

Re: .260 vs. .243 for competition

The heavier the bullet, the more dirt its gonna kick up if you miss, which allows you to have good data for your next shot.

I was gonna build a 243, but after going to ASC and shooting
a loaner, I built a 7 WSM to shoot 180 Bergers.

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: .260 vs. .243 for competition

I agree with jasonk, taking into account the considerations you presented.

In addition I'd suggest looking at a R700 with a varmint barrel in 7-08 as an off the shelf option to drop in a T4A. Your powders would be similar, headspace tools are the same, and with the availability of 1X fired 308 brass you have as a LE shooter you are one FL sizing away from good brass. 162 Amax's at 2725fps are a 1.8mil windage load at 1K......

 

[SFC Carpentier jr]

Re: .260 vs. .243 for competition

I have both calibers and like them both. The 243 is a good caliber, but if you push your loads at 3000 fps you are going to shorten barrel life. Since you already have a chance to get the 243, I would get it. You can always have it rebarreled later to a 260.

 

[ChadTRG42]

Re: .260 vs. .243 for competition

You can push the 243 with the DTAC's at 3000 fps easy, and some up to 3150 fps. It will shoot flatter and buck the wind a little better than a 260. But, you decrease barrel life. And I have seen a 243 not knock over steel plates at 800+ yards. I have not seen any issues like this with the 140 bullets out of a 260. Just a thought.

 

[Powder_Burns]

Re: .260 vs. .243 for competition

Reason for a 700 Long action; loading the .260 rem with a 140gr VLD, A-max, scenar, accubond, or matchking the factory OAL is 2.8" but if you ran a Long action repeater + dbm you could load the .260 rem long, maximizing powder capacity, chase the lands, and still feed from a magazine.

 

[rksimple]

Re: .260 vs. .243 for competition

Using real world BCs and velocities, they run almost identical in windage. The 243 being flatter will yield better performance for UKD applications. But it comes at a 1-2k round barrel life disadvantage, depending on who you talk to. I have both but don't have enough time behind the 243 to give a real honest evaluation. The advantages of the 260 are the huge choice of good bullets and decent barrel life. The 243 is flatter, easier to find brass for, has less recoil, but barrel life suffers.

If you want to get a factory sps-v in 243, the twist in that barrel won't be compatible with most of the heavy, high BC pills. Just something to consider. Good luck!

 

[LoneWolfUSMC]

Re: .260 vs. .243 for competition

If running 105gr Amax in the .243 at 2900-3000 fps what type of barrel life will I be looking at?

Rebarreling ever year or two is not a big deal. Rebarreling every quarter would be.

 

[deadly0311]

Re: .260 vs. .243 for competition

LoneWolf, i would think that pushing them at that speed you could look at anywhere b/w 3500-5000

 

[JRose]

Re: .260 vs. .243 for competition

.260 seems to be the flavor this month.

 

[LoneWolfUSMC]

Re: .260 vs. .243 for competition

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JRose</div><div class="ubbcode-body">.260 seems to be the flavor this month. </div></div>

Yea, but if I start following the styles, then I will need to change my shoes and belt too and there just isn't enough room in my closet.

 

[JRose]

Re: .260 vs. .243 for competition

Exactly....

 

[jasonk]

Re: .260 vs. .243 for competition

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JRose</div><div class="ubbcode-body">.260 seems to be the flavor this month.</div></div>

I'd say the 260 has been popular a little longer than that. Some guys are just figuring out what the 260 has to offer. I'd venture to say that if anyone had made decent brass for it that the Creedmore may have never been.

How many years ago now did GAP have the 260 ammo made for them, seems it's at least 3 years.

 

[JRose]

Re: .260 vs. .243 for competition

I concur... I think you missed the point though.

 

[jasonk]

Re: .260 vs. .243 for competition

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JRose</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I concur... I think you missed the point though.</div></div>

Entirely possible...I'm slow today. And shot terrible at the range during lunch, so it must be some residual anger from that clouding my thoughts.

 

[jamesZ71]

Re: .260 vs. .243 for competition

i say go with 260
here is a 300 yrd group from a 260

 

[JRose]

Re: .260 vs. .243 for competition

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jamesz71</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i say go with 260
here is a 300 yrd group from a 260

</div></div>

If I were to show you a smaller group shot with a Savage .308, at 300y, would you say go with a .308???

 

[jamesZ71]

Re: .260 vs. .243 for competition

no because i know that a 260 can perform at a 1000yards pretty well

 

[LoneWolfUSMC]

Re: .260 vs. .243 for competition

Exactly.

There are plenty of .243 groups out there that are amazingly small as well.

Group size is only a fraction of the equation. I am looking for something that will cheat the wind and absorb some of the "oh shit" factor when I screw something up.

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: .260 vs. .243 for competition

That's why I suggested 7-08 for all the reasons I did......

 

[jamesZ71]

Re: .260 vs. .243 for competition

also i have a savage in 308 already and it shoots very well at 300yrds for having a factory 20in barrel

 

[JRose]

Re: .260 vs. .243 for competition

LW,

Being a big .243 fan, and also having a 6.5 that has really impressed me, I've found that your way into the "it's now the indians part" territory...

I've found, that ballistically, they are about neck and neck. If anything, I'd say you can only slightly give a nudge to the .260 due to it's launching a heavier pill. One more nudge I give the 6.5 is the fact that I can utilize a slightly shorter barrel length, but a few inches of barrel really makes a shit to me, but might be important to some.

Having both, I feel that either I grab, would take me to the top of the winners circle equally well if'n I could perform as well as they did.

Just for play time with your ballistic FTE, here's my numbers...

6.5:

139gr Scenar, 2900fps, 25" tube

6mm:

115 DTAC, 3010fps, 28" tube

 

[JRose]

Re: .260 vs. .243 for competition

BTW, believe the FTE numbers, I've found that they are pretty friggin close to my real world results when all the data is correct.

 

[LoneWolfUSMC]

Re: .260 vs. .243 for competition

Thanks.

I think what it's going to come down to is me picking up a .243 because I can get it for a cheap price. When I burn the barrel out I will have a handle on it's manners. If I don't like it or want to go .260, it's as simple as a rebarrel (which I would have to do if I was starting with the .260)

 

[LoneWolfUSMC]

Re: .260 vs. .243 for competition

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That's why I suggested 7-08 for all the reasons I did...... </div></div>

That was an option I looked at for awhile and may still be on the shelf, but I need to choose something right now that is a Factory rifle and I don't see any Varmint weight 7-08's in Remmy's lineup.

 

[JRose]

Re: .260 vs. .243 for competition

IMO, there isn't a factory offered Remmy .243 that's worth a shit. It's kinda a race gun caliber, you have to build to it's performance...

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: .260 vs. .243 for competition

There may still be some 7-08 VS's and such on shelves, I didn't realize they pulled them from the lineup.

Within the two choices then, I'd go 260 out of what's showing on their current lineup, for the reason JRose points out-barrel twist.

 

[LoneWolfUSMC]

Re: .260 vs. .243 for competition

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Within the two choices then, I'd go 260 out of what's showing on their current lineup, for the reason JRose points out-barrel twist. </div></div>

I don't think Remington offers a current varmint weight .260

What I have to choose from is the current factory offerings. Old stock on dealer shelves doesn't count. The .243 SPS-V is going to run me $385. (same price for any caliber SPS-V)

 

[Onemoretime]

Re: .260 vs. .243 for competition

LOL, have you been to Remington's site today??

Anyway, out of the ones they have for the SPS-V I'd get the .243 though I think the twist not ideal.

 

[LoneWolfUSMC]

Re: .260 vs. .243 for competition

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Onemoretime</div><div class="ubbcode-body">LOL, have you been to Remington's site today??</div></div>

Yep. I believe the just updated it today. I went on there to get the part numbers for the rifles I was interested in.

Too bad they don't have an SPS-V in .260 or 7-08.

 

[Onemoretime]

Re: .260 vs. .243 for competition

Yeah, I'm getting parts together to build a 7-08 on a long action.

 

[427Cobra]

Re: .260 vs. .243 for competition

IMHO get what ever you can and sell it, take that money and put it toward a custom action like a Surgeon, save your pennies for a nice hand lapped custom barrel, get a stock with decent bottom metal and a Smith to put it together, I gaurantee you'll be happier in the long run.

 

[Jasmck]

Re: .260 vs. .243 for competition

Nudge towards the .243Win. Lapua Brass.

James

 

[LoneWolfUSMC]

Re: .260 vs. .243 for competition

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body">save your pennies ....I gaurantee you'll be happier in the long run. </div></div>

That would be great, but it never works. I am more of a get it and beat the shit out of it, then replace what isn't working kind of guy.

The saving for "fun" stuff never works because I find "other" stuff that then takes priority. Like the pile of AR10 parts that I have been working on for over a year.

I think I am going to get the SPS-V and then run the stock barrel for awhile. If it's not acceptable to me, then I will put a custom tube on it. I have never had an issue with the factory 700 action. I would like a surgeon, but I can have a very well known local smith blueprint and true my action and install a custom barrel and still be under the cost of a Surgeon RSR Action alone.

I guess the main thing I am looking at is that even the slow twist of the factor .243 barrel should be an improvement over my .308 for the "tactical" game. And really, that is all this one will be. A game gun. It's not going to be a work gun used for any serious purpose.

I will call Remington to verify that they don't have any heavy barrel 7-08 or .260's but I haven't seen any in the catalog for awhile.

 

[Onemoretime]

Re: .260 vs. .243 for competition

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LoneWolfUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I will call Remington to verify that they don't have any heavy barrel 7-08 or .260's but I haven't seen any in the catalog for awhile. </div></div>

Good idea.

 

[Wild_Bill]

Re: .260 vs. .243 for competition

ok this is what i would do get a 243 heavy barrel as you cant get a heavy barreled 260 or 7mmo8 you can rebarrel a 243 same as rebarreling a 308. so if you dont want a 308 get the 243 i would go with the VLS not the SPS as they are more accurate in my experience. the laminate stocks are a good platform and work well when bedded aswell and have the higher cheekpiece. when you shoot the factory 243 varmint barrel out then decide if the 243 was good for you or if you think that a 260 is better, i would prefer a 243 with a 8 twist and shoot 115gr DTAc's after you fry the factory barrel with 105gr A Max's close to 3000fps. use H1000 and you will have good barrel life at a lower pressure and it is temp sensitive, also the CCI BR2's work realy well in this combination. you will likley want to fit an ACIS mag as it will give you 10 shot detachable capacity and a can if you have one or a break if you dont have the can. if you dont have a can leave the barrel at 26" if you have a can you can chop it down around the 22" mark without to much dramas but it will be realy loud shorter with a break.

Hope this helps but definately start with the 243 as you can shoot it straight from the box.

 

[spot69221]

Re: .260 vs. .243 for competition

Looks like you have decided. That being said, I would get the .243 Remmy. My shooting buddy wanted to try a factory Rem .243 so he picked up a used youth model. It for sure has a 20" pencil barrel. It is very close to the 9 1/4 twist and we have shot it 1000 asl at 40 degrees with 95 SMK. 11"x14" piece of steel had no chance at 800 yds. You can't get any lighter than that either.

I would say the best range of bullets would be 75-95 gr for what we do and where we shoot.

After you shoot the .243....you will have another. It just so damn easy to use the cheap Win brass with a factory setup and be shooting 3/4 MOA. I love the fact of little recoil.

 

[JRose]

Re: .260 vs. .243 for competition

Get a remmy action, stock, and spin a 7.5 or 8 twist 6mm barrel on it and rock out. If your not wanting to reload, Chad @ Dallas Reloads, or Cor-Bon has match DTAC loaded ammo that will make it run like a true game gun, w/o any compromises.

 

[yavapai kid]

Re: .260 vs. .243 for competition

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This will be on a 700 short action (unless someone can give me a REAL good reason to go long action). I have a certificate for a Remington Factory Rifle (VIP Price) and was thinking about going with a .243 SPS-V and dropping it into a Manners T4A.</div></div>

If you do go factory 243 I'm doubting you will have the right twist rate to shoot your longer/heavier bullets like the DTAC.

Getting into the 243 with a custom barrel and you'll get
a good 2,000 rounds.
Go 260 and you can double that.

 

[Rob01]

Re: .260 vs. .243 for competition

Moon had 3300 rounds through his .243 pushing 115 DTACs at 3100fps when he won the 1000 yard shot at the Cup a few years back. Barrel life isn't always set in stone.

.243 seems like the only option for you Lone Wolf. I'd say buy it and shoot it and if you don't like it then you can rebarrel to whatever you want, .260, .308, faster twist .243 or even the 6.5 Creedmoor

 

[jhead7416]

Re: .260 vs. .243 for competition

"I have a certificate for a Remington Factory Rifle (VIP Price) and was thinking about going with a .243 SPS-V"


Factory offerings by Remington have been made in 7-08, 243, 260 with varmint weight barrels in the VLS and VS line. None had the correct barrel twist rate to carry the heaviest bullets in the calibers. I wouldn't imiagine they had changed much on the 243 SPS-V line as far as twist rate. I think I would ask for a 700 trued in the custom shop and have a good smith barrel it for you in 260 or the 6.5 Creedmoor. Just my opinion. Interesing that not much has been mentioned about any long action calibers.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: .260 vs. .243 for competition

I think they are both quite good, relatively comparable in accuracy performance, and give my vote to the .260 by a small margin.

If I were to give a definitive test of how efficiently each handles the .308 parent cartridge's case capacity, my interest would be directed toward retained energy at longer range.

This, combined with barrel life expectancy, would govern my conclusions.

Greg

 

[LoneWolfUSMC]

Re: .260 vs. .243 for competition

Ok, so I have been thinking about this some more, and it's really kicking my ass.

Since I have a year to use this certificate, I can hang onto it for a little bit.

Since most of the suggestions required rebarreling with a faster twist AND since I have an AR10 without a barrel I am thinking about a .243, .260 or 7mm-08 barrel for it. I beleive the .308 mags will feed any of the above.

Any comments on this?

Obviously the gas system will need to be setup for the round in question, but will any of those choices be crippled by a semiautomatic platform? If I go this route I am leaning AWAY from the .243 because a 26" barreled AR really doesn't appeal to me.

Do I seem indecisive yet? Probably because the vast majority of my experience has been with the 308.

 

[Mike]

Re: .260 vs. .243 for competition

I have a .243 bolt and a .260 AR. Both are hammers. However, my go to rifle is the 243. I can shoot it real well, I know the numbers and is reliable as a Texas summer is hot.

Here are some thoughts on some of the myths perpetuated about the 243 rifle.

Barrel life. As pointed out Moon (gunsmith for GAP) shot the "dirty little whore" at a match and won the Shumway (sp) trophy at 1K. As stated, the barrel had at least 3300-3500 rounds down it (Moon said it may be more) and it still shot sub .5 moa. I currently have over 1100 on mine and as JRose can attest it is still accurate as can be.

Barrel length. I shoot a 27" barrel plus a Badger thruster brake equaling about 28.5" of barrel. That, on top of my 15" LOP makes for a pretty long rifle. Now not only is this "long" rifle light enough to hump on a hunt all day but its length has NEVER been an issue in any comp I have taken part in.

Data. My dope is 6.5 mils to 1K real world. It's about 1.5 10mph full value in the wind department. This is NOT a hot load. I have rapid fired this rifle in the Texas heat and have NEVER had any pressure signs. It would be nearly impossible to get a 260 close to that. It is difficult for my 6.5x284 to do that although I will hold judgment until Chad gets done with my load.

Another issue with barrel life. We either own or try to own completely custom rifles usually in the realm of $3000 plus. We have hand loaded ammunition with the best components and $2500+ scopes. If this is the case and you're honestly going to bitch about replacing a barrel for a few hundred bucks? It seems like the priorities are in the wrong order.

Don't get me wrong. I like the 260, I've owned a 260 bolt gun. If it wasn't for the 243 for comps I would have a 260 bolt gun. In fact, I'm seriously contemplating shooting the AR for the SHC. But for me, nothing beats everything about a 243.

That's my thoughts.

 

[bigmac125]

Re: .260 vs. .243 for competition

My thoughts are with the 243, it has won the ITRC shoot several years in a row. The other thing alot of us overlook is the time of flight with muzzle velocity. For example a 115 Dtac at 2800fps is no comparison to a 95 at 3300.Run this out in any ballistics program and you will find the 243 with a 95 gr berger to be far better than a 260 with a 130 or 140 gr bullet also.
Just my .02
Macs

 

[Mike]

Re: .260 vs. .243 for competition

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: macssubmoa</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My thoughts are with the 243, it has won the ITRC shoot several years in a row. The other thing alot of us overlook is the time of flight with muzzle velocity. For example a 115 Dtac at 2800fps is no comparison to a 95 at 3300.Run this out in any ballistics program and you will find the 243 with a 95 gr berger to be far better than a 260 with a 130 or 140 gr bullet also.
Just my .02
Macs</div></div>

I think if you run this out past 700 yards you will find this not to be true.