.280 Rem vs .284 Win

[Time Killer]

Was reading about some dude trying to decide on a couple of calibers. I am kind of in the same situation. I have a R700 Long Donor action. I will be shooting deer sized game out to 1000 and some steel targets.
I am currently shooting a 6.5-284,but want to pass it to my son.
I just started reloading.
You guys seems to have more infinite knowledge than me on this stuff. Which one would you go with and why? Hell, I don't even know the difference. Anyway, tell me something.

 

[Millsaps75]

Re: .280 Rem vs .284 Win

The 280 has a bit More velocity. It was formed by necking down the 30-06 Cartridge and belongs in a long action. The 284 is an excellent round and very popular in long range target shooting. It can be used in a short action but won't feed well with heavy, long bullets. There both very good round but I prefer the 284 .

 

[HANDYMAN]

Re: .280 Rem vs .284 Win

I'd say go .280 Ackley improved.

 

[Northman]

Re: .280 Rem vs .284 Win

7x57!

 

[ccoker]

Re: .280 Rem vs .284 Win

I am partial to the 280 Ackely
For deer I am running 140g Accubonds at 3150 FPS is fantastic deer medicine.
Running 162 Amax for long range

Moderate recoil and very accurate

Get the Nosler reloading manual as it has the latest data.
I also run their brass and neck size only have got many relaodings out of them.
Using IMR4831 for the 140s and stlll experimenting with the 162s

FWIW, I am running a Nosler Trophy Grade with a lightweight 24" Pacnor barrel with a 1-9 twist.

 

[RedGoat]

Re: .280 Rem vs .284 Win

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ccoker</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am partial to the 280 Ackely
For deer I am running 140g Accubonds at 3150 FPS is fantastic deer medicine.
Running 162 Amax for long range

Moderate recoil and very accurate

Get the Nosler reloading manual as it has the latest data.
I also run their brass and neck size only have got many relaodings out of them.
Using IMR4831 for the 140s and stlll experimenting with the 162s

FWIW, I am running a Nosler Trophy Grade with a lightweight 24" Pacnor barrel with a 1-9 twist.</div></div>

What velocities you getting with your 162 loads?

 

[ColbyLang]

Re: .280 Rem vs .284 Win

I'm running a 280 AI for whitetail and range play out to 1000. 24" 5.5 contour broughton SS barrel. 1 in 9 twist. That's my preference in caliber. Hell, my BIL has a .284 and when its time to re-barrel, he's making the switch to 280AI.

I shoot 162 AMAX for everything...Weather just changed a bit. Havent run it thru the chrony since the temp dropped. Velocity was 2980. My gun loves em. Using Reloader 17

 

[turbo54]

Re: .280 Rem vs .284 Win

I run a 284.

The 280/280AI wasn't an option for me, because I built mine on a short action (Medium, I guess...FN SPR) rifle.

The two are the same downrange. The 280AI may eek out a couple fps more than a 284, but it's just not going to show up until you are out past 1000 yards. Even there it is a minimal difference. Of course, the increased-capacity version of the 284 is the "Shehane" or 284-Shehane, I guess. It will ever so slightly outperform the 280AI, but again, we're talking a handful of fps.

If nothing else, I prefer the shorter stubbier case design of the 284. '06 cases look too long and spindly for me, but obviously, that no bearing on performance.

From a brass availability perspective, the 280 is probably better. You can even buy 280AI brass ready to roll with no fireforming required, which is a nice bonus.

Any of these chamberings loaded with 162, 175 or 180gr bullets will take you to 1000 yards with ease.

ETA: I run the 175smk from my 284 over 54gr H4831sc. That nets me ~2835fps. There is a little more on tap, as I've been to 55gr, but this gets to 1000 with such authority there is just no reason to "push". I've spent time with H4350, and dabbled with RE17, but honestly, I'm not interested in shooting out my barrel trying to find incremental gains over where I am now. My rifle is a hammer as is.

ETA2: Beware of the 162s from Hornady. Barrels seem to have a love/hate relationship with them. I have direct experience now with 5 different 7mm's, and 3 of them WON'T shoot the 162s for whatever reason. Two of them are 9 twist, and one is an 8.5 twist. I've read about this trait of the 162s elsewhere as well. The 175smk is a dream. Super BC, and super easy to load with.

 

[Weaselthis]

Re: .280 Rem vs .284 Win

I'd go w/ the 280AI as well. I use Nosler brass, 160 Accubond w/ 63g retumbo, Fed 215M primer, and get sub .25 MOA at times w/ 3000 fps. I've gotten 15 reloads on the brass by neck sizing only and annealing ever other firing. Bartlein 26" 1:9 w/ 1750 rounds down range. Still a Hammer of God! Good luck.

 

[Time Killer]

Re: .280 Rem vs .284 Win

These are all great comments. Exactly what I am looking for.
Keep em coming!

 

[Nortex]

Re: .280 Rem vs .284 Win

I'm leaning very hard at the 280AI for my next hunting rig.

 

[rusty815]

Re: .280 Rem vs .284 Win

My reasoning was that I don't like AI's, so it was between the standard 280 and the 284, and to me the 284 was the better one between the two, and it uses powders I have at hand so I don't have to go stock up on other powders.

 

[ccoker]

Re: .280 Rem vs .284 Win

Makes sense
We all know that a deer will never notice a 100 FPS difference so it really doesn't matter...

 

[RedGoat]

Re: .280 Rem vs .284 Win

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ccoker</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Makes sense
We all know that a deer will never notice a 100 FPS difference so it really doesn't matter...</div></div>

All depends on the conditions. If it's a long shot, the wind is blowing, and there is elevation involved; I'll take the extra 100fps.

 

[Overflow10]

Re: .280 Rem vs .284 Win

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body">.......Beware of the 162s from Hornady. Barrels seem to have a love/hate relationship with them. I have direct experience now with 5 different 7mm's, and 3 of them WON'T shoot the 162s for whatever reason. Two of them are 9 twist, and one is an 8.5 twist. I've read about this trait of the 162s elsewhere as well. The 175smk is a dream. Super BC, and super easy to load with.</div></div>

Interesting comment. Found my 7RSAUM does not like the Hornady 162s at all but likes the Berger 168 & 180s so far. I will have to give the 175 SMKs a try too.. Thanks Turbo

 

[Gunny81]

Re: .280 Rem vs .284 Win

Fuck em both. Go 7wsm long throated on a long action. Mine's half moa to 1760 with berg 180 hybrids and hits like a friggin hammer at 1k.

 

[VJJPunisher]

Re: .280 Rem vs .284 Win

284 Shooters have bigger cocks, just sayin

 

[The_FNG]

Re: .280 Rem vs .284 Win

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: VJJPunisher</div><div class="ubbcode-body">284 Shooters have bigger cocks, just sayin </div></div>

My wife agrees with this fact.

 

[ccoker]

Re: .280 Rem vs .284 Win

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RedGoat</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ccoker</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Makes sense
We all know that a deer will never notice a 100 FPS difference so it really doesn't matter...</div></div>

All depends on the conditions. If it's a long shot, the wind is blowing, and there is elevation involved; I'll take the extra 100fps.</div></div> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RedGoat</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ccoker</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Makes sense
We all know that a deer will never notice a 100 FPS difference so it really doesn't matter...</div></div>


Well, yes, but my point was for probably 99% of the shots taken on deer it wouldn't really matter.

I want it as fast as I can get them to shoot extremelmy accurately.


All depends on the conditions. If it's a long shot, the wind is blowing, and there is elevation involved; I'll take the extra 100fps.</div></div>

 

[Twist Fast]

Re: .280 Rem vs .284 Win

This shit cracks me the fuck up.

There are no F/F issues inherent the 284Win parent or it's spawn,no matter the projectile. I've more than a few S/A's so chambered,in (3) bore sizes. As case designs go,the 284Win is exceptional. 3" COAL latitude is easily arranged,via multiple avenues,none of which are daunting. In 7mm,that will do the 162 more than proud and that bullet has long rated building a rifle around.

If only for conversation,I don't have a .284" that doesn't dazzle with them,whether 7-08,7-08AI,284,7SAUM,7WSM,280,280AI or 7mmRemMag and that in either OEM or Custom guise. A SAAMI 7-08 chamber twisted 10" will stabilize them at sealevel.

Enjoyed the notion that the 284's appetite for propellant differs from the 280 and 280AI too. Funny shit!

Assuming a .473" 700 L/A donor,the 280AI is king. Nice blend of case capacity,to COAL latitude in OEM confines. The 284Win excells in a s/A and if going L/A...it's to add case capacity,because S/A COAL latitude is a breeze.

Hint.

 

[Limbic]

Re: .280 Rem vs .284 Win



Ive got a GAP 280AI that will get me 2925 with the 168VLD's. The fit in the mag which is nice.

I wanted a :
rare or wildcat round
.284 caliber
long action and a long action internal mag
160'ish bullets at 2850-3000 fps
Fairly efficient brass design
Brass that would be available from a higher end manufacturer (Nosler isn't the best I know but it works pretty darn good)

280AI fit the bill for all the above

 

[Twist Fast]

Re: .280 Rem vs .284 Win

The 280AI is far and away the best use of the '06 hull.

My 24" 7-08AI likes the 162 A-Max at 2825fps,from it's OEM 2.815" box. I've (3) Kimber Montana 7WSM's and they'll make 3100fps+ with same,which do tend to knock luster from a .473" .284" L/A.

Lots of ways to skin a cat,though I always start at the asshole.(grin)

 

[turbo54]

Re: .280 Rem vs .284 Win

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Twist Fast</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There are no F/F issues inherent the 284Win parent or it's spawn,no matter the projectile. I've more than a few S/A's so chambered,in (3) bore sizes. As case designs go,the 284Win is exceptional. 3" COAL latitude is easily arranged,via multiple avenues,none of which are daunting.</div></div>

A true 3.000" COAL with a DBM is not so easily achieved in a short action - at least as far as I'm aware. What are the multiple avenues you're referring to?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Twist Fast</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In 7mm,that will do the 162 more than proud and that bullet has long rated building a rifle around. If only for conversation,I don't have a .284" that doesn't dazzle with them,whether 7-08,7-08AI,284,7SAUM,7WSM,280,280AI or 7mmRemMag and that in either OEM or Custom guise. A SAAMI 7-08 chamber twisted 10" will stabilize them at sealevel.
</div></div>

Glad you've had such luck with the 162. Agreed it is a helluva nice bullet. It is very efficiently shaped and it's form factor (i7) is ~.95 which is way up there with the best. You specifically say it's worth building a rifle around, but I take a little pause at that. Maybe I'm the unluckiest guy in the world, but as I mentioned above, 2 out of 5 7mms I've set up don't want to shoot that bullet at all - as in 2+ MOA, and that is through premium barrels that will "single hole" at 100 yard with other bullets. My experience says no amount of load development, including charge weight and seating depth adjustments, is going to make the difference between 2+ MOA and sub MOA. The fact those same barrels that won't shoot the 162 WILL shoot other bullets great tells me there aren't any "gunsmithing" issues in the rifle causing inherent accuracy issues.

If you specifically "setup" a rifle to use the 162, and it doesn't shoot that bullet well, your other options (at least for long range use) are limited. You're either into the 168VLD (a finicky fucker), or the slower 175smk. And of course, your freebore was probably configured for the 162. The 175 is a fabulous bullet but the 162's characteristics are better suited for moderate case capacity cartridges that will be used at 1000 yards and in. The 162 will give up almost no drift, yet will be notably flatter.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Twist Fast</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Enjoyed the notion that the 284's appetite for propellant differs from the 280 and 280AI too. Funny shit!
</div></div>

I also find this a little "out there". H4350 and H4831 work great for both.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Twist Fast</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Assuming a .473" 700 L/A donor,the 280AI is king. Nice blend of case capacity,to COAL latitude in OEM confines. The 284Win excells in a s/A and if going L/A...it's to add case capacity,because S/A COAL latitude is a breeze.
</div></div>

Glad I'm not the only one (was starting to feel like I was) that is OK with a short action 284. Mine works great.

 

[Twist Fast]

Re: .280 Rem vs .284 Win

I used little words and did not state "multiple 3" DBM's",you inferred that. To eek a 3" COAL,one can simply opt a 3" COAL S/A receiver expressly designed to afford same,less any DBM impetus and that train of thought would be tough to slight for a Utility Rifle,to begin with. Or you can mod an existing 2.815"-ish receiver,to accept a more generous box. None of which is Rocket Science.

Fucking hilarious to boot,how you've zero grasp of throat geometry. Just how in the hell does a 162 kiss,take you out of the game with other projectiles?!!? The 162 is of modest bearing surface and wears a sleek profile a ways away from it's tip,which even a 1st Grader could discern as being indicative of a rather modest throat length. I get it that you don't shoot much and are prone to talking out your ass and I'm groovin' on the oblivious humor associated,with your best "efforts" at feigning a clue.

As to the 162,I'll sandbag by saying I've a whole fucking herd of 7mm's of various case capacities and that said projectile dazzles in all. I doubt there's much more than 100 tubes in said diameter,betwixt pards and I...with all parties largely gunning the 162 as a mainstay. I've yet to see or hear of said bullet being close to "picky",but I know my way around a rifle and the loading bench,as do pards. For giggles,feel free to cite the chambering,twist,throat geometry and load particulars which allow you to garner 2MOA 162 clusters as your best efforts. It'll be funny!

As mentioned from inception,this shit cracks me the fuck up...if only for the obvious reasons.

 

[Graham]

Re: .280 Rem vs .284 Win

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Twist Fast</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I get it that you don't shoot much and are prone to talking out your ass and I'm groovin' on the oblivious humor associated,with your best "efforts" at feigning a clue...</div></div>Larry, you're back!

 

[Twist Fast]

Re: .280 Rem vs .284 Win

You are going to make her cry.(grin)

 

[Twist Fast]

Re: .280 Rem vs .284 Win

And why do mean fuckers ALWAYS pick on us new guys?

 

[Graham]

Re: .280 Rem vs .284 Win

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Twist Fast</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And why do mean fuckers ALWAYS pick on us new guys? </div></div>We can't pick on the new members anymore; it's a rule. Now you'll often see new members whine to the mods about the rule having been 'violated', then beg for respect, even when they were not the subject of a personal attack.

I'll pick on you whenever I want, though.

 

[Twist Fast]

Re: .280 Rem vs .284 Win

Too fucking funny! I'll prolly pout,take all my marbles,go home and order a 30-'06 in despair.(grin)

Oh the horror.

 

[223ai]

Re: .280 Rem vs .284 Win

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Twist Fast</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Too fucking funny! I'll prolly pout,take all my marbles,go home and order a 30-'06 in despair.(grin)

Oh the horror.

</div></div>

As long as it's on a Salvage, I can let the 30-06 slide....

 

[Twist Fast]

Re: .280 Rem vs .284 Win

'Pipes,

'Sup?

The '06 being a given,alog with Vortex glass and Millet rings.

Pass the Partitions and get outta da way.(grin)