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.284 in Arctic Warfare - Anyone?

GasLight

GasLight

That Guy
Banned !
Full Member
Minuteman
May 2, 2008
1,962
13
Bozeman, MT
www.thevaultgunandloan.com
#1
Is anyone running the .284 in the Arctic Warfare magazines? How do they feed? What bullet?

I am in the neverending planning stage on a .284, my plan is short action and using the 162-168 class bullets. Not exactly squeeze every last foot per second, but I think it will compete nicely with anything else in a short action, and still carry good energy for long range hunting...
 
#2
Re: .284 in Arctic Warfare - Anyone?

The 284 needs a long action. The bullet has to be seated so deep in short action robbing valuable powder space. If your set on short action, go with 7mm-08 instead.
 
#3
Re: .284 in Arctic Warfare - Anyone?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: excaliber</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The 284 needs a long action. The bullet has to be seated so deep in short action robbing valuable powder space. If your set on short action, go with 7mm-08 instead. </div></div>

Disagree.

No doubt bullets have to be seated deeply to fit a short action, but 284 is still a great performer. Mine gets 2825fps with a 175smk without pushing at all. That's 54gr H4831sc, loaded to 2.950" COAL. That handily beats a 7-08.

It can be made to perform a bit better on a long action but then you give up a lot of magazine capacity.

That said, 284 is *more* than enough horsepower for 1000 yards and in, and there is really no need to futz with it for most practical purposes. 260, 6.5CM, 7-08, etc etc etc all work just fine to 1000.

As far as 284 running from AI AW mags: it sure seem like a no go. The mags are sized to double stack cases .473" in diameter, not .500". The cartridges don't fit right, and I don't see how you'd be able to "tweak" them to make it work, but I could be wrong.
 
#4
Re: .284 in Arctic Warfare - Anyone?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
As far as 284 running from AI AW mags: it sure seem like a no go. The mags are sized to double stack cases .473" in diameter, not .500". The cartridges don't fit right, and I don't see how you'd be able to "tweak" them to make it work, but I could be wrong. </div></div>

Turbo-
You using AICS mags with the plate removed?
 
#5
Re: .284 in Arctic Warfare - Anyone?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Onemoretime</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
As far as 284 running from AI AW mags: it sure seem like a no go. The mags are sized to double stack cases .473" in diameter, not .500". The cartridges don't fit right, and I don't see how you'd be able to "tweak" them to make it work, but I could be wrong. </div></div>

Turbo-
You using AICS mags with the plate removed? </div></div>

I'm using Alpha type 3s and 4s, with the ramp on the follower moved forward.
 
#6
Re: .284 in Arctic Warfare - Anyone?

The 284 will work in AIAW mags, you will just have less capacity, 5rnd mags will be 4 rounders, 10 rounders will be 8 rounders, otherwise should feed and function fine.

The 284 can perform well in a short action, but you will be limited in bullet selection, many heavier bullets will not work in a short action due to the ogives being too long, if you can find the right bullet to use in a short action (such as the 175gr. SMK mentioned above), you will get great performance.
 
#7
Re: .284 in Arctic Warfare - Anyone?

Rusty, those are AICS magazines. AW magazines are all 10 round double column magazines. They don't like improved cases let alone a .284.
 
#8
Re: .284 in Arctic Warfare - Anyone?

Limiting a 284 to a short action and mag is defeating the capabilities of the cartridge right out of the box. Go for a long action if you want to do it and get all the potential. They feed just fine from the 300WM AICS mags. That is what I run in my Templar.
 
#10
Re: .284 in Arctic Warfare - Anyone?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYS338</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Limiting a 284 to a short action and mag is defeating the capabilities of the cartridge right out of the box. Go for a long action if you want to do it and get all the potential. They feed just fine from the 300WM AICS mags. That is what I run in my Templar. </div></div>

I think this statement should be qualified...

For example, if a shooter's goal was to zing the 208amax @ ~2800fps, he could hotrod a 30-06, or he could cruise a 300WM.

If he chose the 300WM, would he be defeating the purpose of the cartridge? I guess so, but I don't think that's a bad thing.

I could argue that loading a 284 with anything less than 65ksi, with a pointed 180 hybrid, at a COAL of 3.300" would be defeating the capabilities of the cartridge - because *that* would be the peak possible performance available.

I can say from experience that given equal barrel length and the same bullet, the difference between a SA 284 and a LA 284 is 5 rounds in the magazine and 25-50fps.

Let's assume you're giving up the full 50fps... Crunch some numbers in JBM with a .65 BC bullet, and see what the difference between 2800 and 2850fps is at various ranges. It's pretty darn small.
 
#11
Re: .284 in Arctic Warfare - Anyone?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RyanScott</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Rusty, those are AICS magazines. AW magazines are all 10 round double column magazines. They don't like improved cases let alone a .284. </div></div>

I am speaking for the AW mags, although I am not speaking from experience (please keep that in mind) Savage staggered feed magazines function nearly the same as AW mags, they are double stack, and my 284 feed's and functions just fine from them, only at less capacity when compared to rimless cartridges.
 
#12
Re: .284 in Arctic Warfare - Anyone?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rusty815</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The 284 will work in AIAW mags, you will just have less capacity, 5rnd mags will be 4 rounders, 10 rounders will be 8 rounders, otherwise should feed and function fine.</div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rusty815</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am speaking for the AW mags, although I am not speaking from experience (please keep that in mind) Savage staggered feed magazines function nearly the same as AW mags, they are double stack, and my 284 feed's and functions just fine from them, only at less capacity when compared to rimless cartridges.</div></div>

I don't think so.

I tried loading an AW magazine with 284 cartridges. It was obvious the 284 case didn't sit in the mag properly, and wasn't positioned against the inside of the feedlip(s) right. I put another cartridge in, and they sat in there squea-hawed. By the time there were 4 or 5 loaded, they all sprang out.

Perhaps a follower modification/replacement, and/or a feedlip modification would make it work, I dunno, but they won't "work" as is.
 
#13
Re: .284 in Arctic Warfare - Anyone?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYS338</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Limiting a 284 to a short action and mag is defeating the capabilities of the cartridge right out of the box. Go for a long action if you want to do it and get all the potential. They feed just fine from the 300WM AICS mags. That is what I run in my Templar. </div></div>

+2
 
#14
Re: .284 in Arctic Warfare - Anyone?

I am not worried about squeezing every last bit out of it, I am going to build on a short action. The AW mags themselves will make up for the declined (marginally) performance if they will work. I am wondering if I can work up a follower solution to allow that first round to sit to the side better... Guess I will look into it some more

Dave
 
#15
Re: .284 in Arctic Warfare - Anyone?

The AW mags wont work like you want them to....

Glad someone sees my point Bill. Why get into a caliber when you are using half its potential?
 
#16
Re: .284 in Arctic Warfare - Anyone?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYS338</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Limiting a 284 to a short action and mag is defeating the capabilities of the cartridge right out of the box. Go for a long action if you want to do it and get all the potential. They feed just fine from the 300WM AICS mags. That is what I run in my Templar. </div></div>

I think this statement should be qualified...

For example, if a shooter's goal was to zing the 208amax @ ~2800fps, he could hotrod a 30-06, or he could cruise a 300WM.

If he chose the 300WM, would he be defeating the purpose of the cartridge? I guess so, but I don't think that's a bad thing.

I could argue that loading a 284 with anything less than 65ksi, with a pointed 180 hybrid, at a COAL of 3.300" would be defeating the capabilities of the cartridge - because *that* would be the peak possible performance available.

I can say from experience that given equal barrel length and the same bullet, the difference between a SA 284 and a LA 284 is 5 rounds in the magazine and 25-50fps.

Let's assume you're giving up the full 50fps... Crunch some numbers in JBM with a .65 BC bullet, and see what the difference between 2800 and 2850fps is at various ranges. It's pretty darn small. </div></div>

Where are you getting these numbers? I shoot a 162 AMAX and 168 Berger VLD's and they are well over 2900 out of a 27" barrel.
 
#17
Re: .284 in Arctic Warfare - Anyone?

20130218_183929_zps1244417d.jpg


The rib of the magazine is what creates the problem.

162 AMAX @ 2950ftps from a 24" barrel.
 
#18
Re: .284 in Arctic Warfare - Anyone?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cjgemm</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
20130218_183929_zps1244417d.jpg


The rib of the magazine is what creates the problem. </div></div>

Ah, I didn't know the rib was in that location, that would indeed cause a problem, similar to how the ribs on a standard AR magazine make it so the 6.8 doesn't fit. Looks like the 284 is a no go in the AW.
 
#19
Re: .284 in Arctic Warfare - Anyone?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYS338</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYS338</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Limiting a 284 to a short action and mag is defeating the capabilities of the cartridge right out of the box. Go for a long action if you want to do it and get all the potential. They feed just fine from the 300WM AICS mags. That is what I run in my Templar. </div></div>

I think this statement should be qualified...

For example, if a shooter's goal was to zing the 208amax @ ~2800fps, he could hotrod a 30-06, or he could cruise a 300WM.

If he chose the 300WM, would he be defeating the purpose of the cartridge? I guess so, but I don't think that's a bad thing.

I could argue that loading a 284 with anything less than 65ksi, with a pointed 180 hybrid, at a COAL of 3.300" would be defeating the capabilities of the cartridge - because *that* would be the peak possible performance available.

I can say from experience that given equal barrel length and the same bullet, the difference between a SA 284 and a LA 284 is 5 rounds in the magazine and 25-50fps.

Let's assume you're giving up the full 50fps... Crunch some numbers in JBM with a .65 BC bullet, and see what the difference between 2800 and 2850fps is at various ranges. It's pretty darn small. </div></div>

Where are you getting these numbers? I shoot a 162 AMAX and 168 Berger VLD's and they are well over 2900 out of a 27" barrel. </div></div>

Which numbers?

.65 is a reasonable BC for the 175-180 class 7mm bullets for comparison sake.

2825 is what my barrel can achieve from a 175 loaded to 2.950" without pushing.

2865 is what my barrel can achieve from a 175 loaded to 3.150" without pushing.

2865 minus 2825 = 40

Thus, the LA would provide 25-50fps more than SA.

So what if your LA is 2900+ with 162? My SA is too... Hell, my 25" barrel could run 162s @ 2950-3000 with H4350.
 
#20
Re: .284 in Arctic Warfare - Anyone?

Im running 3.210" OAL with a 168 and 4831SC. I am no pressure signs at 2900+. I could easily hop that load up and be well over 3k. Im just saying, why buy a Ferrari and put Wal Mart brand tires on it?

Your numbers are fine, Im looking at them from a performance base. I want to squeeze all the potential I can out of my cartridge. But if you start out with a SA and dont want to get a LA to run the cartridge, knock yourself out with it. Its just not my cup of tea when I go into a build to alter the caliber to fit my parts. I build around the cartridge, that is usually the way you go about it when diving into a new caliber. But if the parts are in front of you it would make no sense to buy more on top of it. I get where the OP is coming from, just not sure why you would pick the 284 by handicapping it.

Have you considered a 7mm Creedmoor? They will feed from AW mags, I have test the cartridge extensively.
 
#21
Re: .284 in Arctic Warfare - Anyone?

3050 with 4831sc on 162 A Max and a Moon chambered 27"Bartline.LA with std or Lapua mags! Hard to argue with and when I was running the same load with 168 bergers it made the Mile more than once.
 
#22
Re: .284 in Arctic Warfare - Anyone?

You guys are getting great speeds out of both a 284 LA and SA.

I can only get the 180 and 175 grain bullets to 2800 fps without
seeing ejector marks and loosening primer pockets. This is out of
a LA.

The Lapua brass is too expensive to only get 3-4 reloads per.
 
#23
Re: .284 in Arctic Warfare - Anyone?

You guys are getting great speeds out of both a 284 LA and SA.

I can only get the 180 and 175 grain bullets to 2800 fps without
seeing ejector marks and loosening primer pockets. This is out of
a LA.

The Lapua brass is too expensive to only get 3-4 reloads per.

I use RE17 over the 4831sc because I get a little move velocity.
 
#24
Re: .284 in Arctic Warfare - Anyone?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: m14er</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You guys are getting great speeds out of both a 284 LA and SA.

I can only get the 180 and 175 grain bullets to 2800 fps without
seeing ejector marks and loosening primer pockets. This is out of
a LA.

The Lapua brass is too expensive to only get 3-4 reloads per. </div></div>

If you want speed, change bullets! 162 AMAX is what Mark designed that chamber to run with. Im more then certain he used that same design on yours as its his go to reamer.
 
#25
Re: .284 in Arctic Warfare - Anyone?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: m14er</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

I use RE17 over the 4831sc because I get a little move velocity. </div></div>

That could be the root of your issue. You are getting more velocity and in turn spiking the pressure. This can also open from high velocity heating up the barrel rapidly which heats up the chamber, thus creating higher pressure then normal.

Try the 4831SC and I can give you my specs...
 
#28
Re: .284 in Arctic Warfare - Anyone?

I have a Badger SA on hand and another on the way. I'd like to get a spare bolt and barrel from BO to shoot the .284 on my actions.

My goal is 2900 with a 162amax.

KY, are you saying you are getting 2900 with 162amax in the 7 Creedmoor?

Don't want to use RL17 as it seems too temp sensitive to me.
 
#29
Re: .284 in Arctic Warfare - Anyone?

You are talking about maximizing cartridges, and I can understand what you are saying, what I am attempting to do is to maximize the short action. I know you can do a SAUM or a WSM, I prefer the .284 Win. It will beat the 7 Creedmoor by a more substantial margin than the LA vs SA .284 debate. By your own logic, why would you choose a Hyundai because it fits in your garage a little better than a Porche, but in order for the Porche to fit, you need to change tires to a cheaper brand...
 
#30
Re: .284 in Arctic Warfare - Anyone?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GasLight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">KY, what is the real world difference we are talking about? Windage, Elevation and energy at 1K?

Marginal at best.

The .284 will more than serve my purpose in the SA platform.

</div></div>

JBM, 162amax (Litz), 0' ASL, 30ºF ambient

Velocity , Drop (mrad) , Drift 10mph FV (mrad)

2900fps , 7.7 , 1.8

2950fps , 7.5 , 1.8

3000fps , 7.2 , 1.7
 
#31
The pressure issues I am experiencing ARE with the 4831sc. I get great accuracy (.25 MOA) and +50-70 fps over the 4831sc with RE17. Plus the brass lives to shoot another day.

KYS338 said:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: m14er</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

I use RE17 over the 4831sc because I get a little move velocity. </div></div>

That could be the root of your issue. You are getting more velocity and in turn spiking the pressure. This can also open from high velocity heating up the barrel rapidly which heats up the chamber, thus creating higher pressure then normal.

Try the 4831SC and I can give you my specs...
Click to expand...
 
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