Ok, my question (to get right down to it) what barrel length and twist would you get for a .30-06 shooting 175-200gr bullets out to 500yds maybe a little farther? I'm going to opt to flute this one so what do you all think? I'm looking to due a light heavy contour like you would find on a stock Rem. 700 PSS/SPS.
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Gunsmithing .30-06 barrel advice (length/twist)
- Thread starter paramil
- Start date
I use a 22.5 1/10 and i am happy with it. I was launcing 190s right at 2900 with no signs of pressure just the other day. I have taken it out to 730 yards with great results. I have some 210s loaded up but i have yet to test them.
500yds with an '06, anything above 18" would work just fine. If you are looking to hunt with it, 20-22" is ideal as it will keep the weight down some as well as not get caught up in the brush so bad. If you want something stricktly for LR shooting and such, slap a 26" on there so that way, with the heavies you can take advantage of some of the slower powders and bump up the velocity a little from the added length. A good load in an '06 with a 22" + barrel should get you to 1000yds maybe further, assuming you can do your business right. I love the 30-06. Its a great do everything round.
I'll agree with 20-26" 1-10 twist. Rem var or bull sporter would be a good choice for light but not too light / heavy but not too heavy contour
Recoil builds quickly with the .30-'06 as the bullet weights get heavier. A Varmint weight barrel can add mass to ease the impact. A .308 can drive a 155 to 1000yd, but slower twists and longer bore lengths appear to be the order of the day. I suspect the '06 can do the same thing with less bore length, and suggest about 26" as a good bore length compromise. A heavier barrel contour can delay heat-induced group growth, but the piper must get paid, and the same heavy contour will also take proportionately longer to cool. As mentioned above, if you're planning on heavier bullets, the rifling twist should get shorter, but I'd also consider 1:10" to be the max.
Uncle Sam got a lot of mileage out of the.30-'06 chambering. They held the bullet weight down to the 150gr-ish range, and put the chambering into a heavier rifle with a 24" bore length and 1:10" rifling twist. Somewhat of a compromise regarding the optimal spec for the cartridge, IMHO; but clearly good enough to play a huge part in winning WWII.
My personal choice would be a medium/light varmint contour, 28" or 30" length, 1:12" twist. I probably couldn't handle recoil from bullet weights above 175-180gr anyway, so a faster twist would be pointless for my own purposes. This would require restraint, keeping the firing cadence and volume slow/low enough to keep bore heating down to a manageable rate.
Greg
Uncle Sam got a lot of mileage out of the.30-'06 chambering. They held the bullet weight down to the 150gr-ish range, and put the chambering into a heavier rifle with a 24" bore length and 1:10" rifling twist. Somewhat of a compromise regarding the optimal spec for the cartridge, IMHO; but clearly good enough to play a huge part in winning WWII.
My personal choice would be a medium/light varmint contour, 28" or 30" length, 1:12" twist. I probably couldn't handle recoil from bullet weights above 175-180gr anyway, so a faster twist would be pointless for my own purposes. This would require restraint, keeping the firing cadence and volume slow/low enough to keep bore heating down to a manageable rate.
Greg
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i had a bartlein #15 straight taper (Hunters class) 26" 1-10 twist recently put on a Win 70 receiver, its not very heavy; the muzzle is .750.
I've had my 10tw 26" with 208's out to a mile, it's not a mile cartridge, but it does get there.
For 500, maybe a little further I think just about anything you could choose would work, that's a chipshot for a properly loaded 30-06 bolt rifle.
The 10 twist with a 22-26" barrel is handy and not "too long" but you don't get much benefit over 25-26" according to the quickload trends. I've shot them down as short as 18.5" and it is handicapped there but still an easily capable round at 1000yd on paper targets, I wouldn't worry that it would be inadadequate against medium sized/skinned animal.
My "go to" loads in my 26" are a 178 Amax at 2950fps (not a hot load) and the 208's stoked up with H4831sc or RL22 in the 2750/2800 range (respectively).
Contour-wise, I see little reason to worry about groups growing substantially from the barrel walking around. The reason I say this is that I've chambered and shot a lot of premium quality match barrels from straight truck axles down to #3 hunting contours. A properly fitted top level barrel will shoot and the only heat issue that I've seen is that the barrel-heat induced mirage can cloud up the target with longer fire strings. In most cases I find it not to be an issue.
For 500, maybe a little further I think just about anything you could choose would work, that's a chipshot for a properly loaded 30-06 bolt rifle.
The 10 twist with a 22-26" barrel is handy and not "too long" but you don't get much benefit over 25-26" according to the quickload trends. I've shot them down as short as 18.5" and it is handicapped there but still an easily capable round at 1000yd on paper targets, I wouldn't worry that it would be inadadequate against medium sized/skinned animal.
My "go to" loads in my 26" are a 178 Amax at 2950fps (not a hot load) and the 208's stoked up with H4831sc or RL22 in the 2750/2800 range (respectively).
Contour-wise, I see little reason to worry about groups growing substantially from the barrel walking around. The reason I say this is that I've chambered and shot a lot of premium quality match barrels from straight truck axles down to #3 hunting contours. A properly fitted top level barrel will shoot and the only heat issue that I've seen is that the barrel-heat induced mirage can cloud up the target with longer fire strings. In most cases I find it not to be an issue.
25" , 1 in 10", If you are a true 30-06 guy or want the REAL skinny in the 30 gov 06 do your self a favor and read all you can here!
The Rifleman's Journal
very best my friend
The Rifleman's Journal
very best my friend
You might want to also consider that lapua 30-06 brass will you give the extra leeway pressure wise to achieve higher velocities with heavier bullets, I have run a 210 berger to 2730 and a 200 swift a frame to 2720 with a 24" tube. With Winchester brass these speeds have not only been hard to reach but not very accurate for me, but always remember to work up slowly and work up again for every lot change of powder
I'm curious why most people are recommending a 1:10 twist barrel. I'm no expert, that's why I'm here, I'm just trying to weight the 1:10 advice against the advice given at riflemansjournal.com on this very topic. I'll quote them, "The 1:11" twist will stabilize all useful match bullets, whereas a 1:12" twist is marginal with some 190 gr. bullets and all of those that are heavier. Accordingly, we can rule out the 1:10" twist as unnecessarily fast, the 1:12" as potentially too slow, and settle on the 1:11" as being just right. Accuracy won't necessarily suffer much with a 1:10", so if you have one, that's fine, if a touch less than optimal. I would avoid the 1:12", however, because it will limit your bullet choices."
If shooting > 165 grain match bullets with a 22" barrel, wouldn't a 1:11 twist be the best choice? Are you guys saying that because the barrel is 22" and not 26", that's why I would choose the 1:10, I would want the faster twist because I'll be 100-175 f/s slower out of the 22" when compared to the 26" barrel?
The Rifleman's Journal: Cartridges: Accuracy Secrets of the .30-06 - Part 1
If shooting > 165 grain match bullets with a 22" barrel, wouldn't a 1:11 twist be the best choice? Are you guys saying that because the barrel is 22" and not 26", that's why I would choose the 1:10, I would want the faster twist because I'll be 100-175 f/s slower out of the 22" when compared to the 26" barrel?
The Rifleman's Journal: Cartridges: Accuracy Secrets of the .30-06 - Part 1
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they are saying go faster because you might want to sling 210 and up weight class. 11 twist will be marginal. if you are going for 175 and under class, a 12 twist is what will work.
.30-06 barrel advice (length/twist)
OP,
Care to share your planned use for the rifle, or are you soliciting random combinations of barrel contours that will get a bullet to 500 yards?
Meanwhile, 10-twist because at some point you might want to shoot heavy bullets in cold weather.
OP,
Care to share your planned use for the rifle, or are you soliciting random combinations of barrel contours that will get a bullet to 500 yards?
Meanwhile, 10-twist because at some point you might want to shoot heavy bullets in cold weather.
I'm collecting the components for a '06 build. It will be my Elk rifle - shooting 180-190 gr bullets to 400 yds.
I'm going with a Bartlien #4 at 22" with 10 twist. I will probably have the smith flute the barrel.
I'm going with a Bartlien #4 at 22" with 10 twist. I will probably have the smith flute the barrel.
So, the compliment of what you are saying is that: between 175-210 grain bullets weights, a 1:11 twist would be perfect?
Not always, it depends on which 210gr bullet you're interested in
SMK? Yes
Berger or Hornady Amax, especially at low equivalent density altitudes? No.
There's no benefit to running an 11 twist over the 10 twist from the 30-06. Not even in a 308.
They're not going to reliably shoot faster, they don't make the bullets "tip in" better like certain barrel makers claim (it's a mathematical issue, the numbers don't work), and they don't foul any less. Building a 30-06 in an 11 instead of a 10 just means you're limited to shooting 200SMK or lighter, 195 Hornady, 190 SMK, 185 Berger instead of putting 208 Amax and 210 Berger's in there
Interesting. You're confident that feedback is relevant considering I'll be using a 22" barrel and I won't have the the higher linear velocity (and hence angular velocity) that a 26" barrel would offer. I'm just trying to separate historical data or tribal knowledge on 30-06 from a 26" barrel from 30-06 from a 22" barrel. Seems like, for a 22" barrel, if I wanted to achieve the same angular velocity as a 26" barrel with 1:10 then I might need that 22" barrel in 1:11. Does that make sense?
I just realized my error. My statement above makes no sense, it should read: "Seems like, for a 22" barrel, if I wanted to achieve the same angular velocity as a 26" barrel with 1:10 then I might need that 22" barrel in 1:9. Does that make sense?"
any velocity change due to twist rate is minimal at best. velocity is mostly powder/bullet selection and barrel length. shorter tube to save weight or be easier to handle, longer tube for speed. as has been said, going to a 10 twist barrel wont affect much on the low end as "over stabilizing" is not nearly as bad as under stabilizing.
Been down this road...instead, fell ass backwards into a rifle.
$635 for 26" for a fluted varmint profile -06. Rifle weighs about 9.5#s empty & just under 11lbs loaded...heavy for a carry rifle, but i'm young and humped my 11.5# 308AR around Wyoming mountains last year.
My suggestions are:
1. Keep the barrel length at 26". For the same barrel contour, the weight savings will be 4-6 ounces if you go to 20-22" barrel instead. There is little to no benefit to a shorter barrel in the mountains. All it does is rob you of velocity (& maximum range).
2. Select a profile that will result in a rifle whose recoil you can manage when sighting in the rifle but also not too heavy to carry. It's a balance. while you don't notice the recoil at the moment of truth, you will curse the rifle when you go sight it in.
3. Make sure you get the most expensive and lightweight glass you can afford. While i have the funds for a nightforce, I don't want a 2lb+ scope on my carry rifle. I also wanted a FFP scope to serve as my back-up rangefinder/ballistic table if my batteries went dead or if i forgot my rangefinder back at camp...trust me, you don't wanna be doing math when that Elk shows up and you know there are other hunters in the area.
4. Make sure you train...i thought i was in shape when i went up there...I lost 15lbs in 9days...we hiked everywhere...it sucked..be prepared for that unless you have a horse.
I've developed a load w 185Bergers and H-4350.
185gr Berger VLD
57.7gr H-4350
Korean Surp Brass
Tula Large Rifle Primers
2,900ft/s.
Next up is some 210VLDs and 215Hybrids...the 1-10 twist will allow my to play w those as well...that advise is also spot-on.
$635 for 26" for a fluted varmint profile -06. Rifle weighs about 9.5#s empty & just under 11lbs loaded...heavy for a carry rifle, but i'm young and humped my 11.5# 308AR around Wyoming mountains last year.
My suggestions are:
1. Keep the barrel length at 26". For the same barrel contour, the weight savings will be 4-6 ounces if you go to 20-22" barrel instead. There is little to no benefit to a shorter barrel in the mountains. All it does is rob you of velocity (& maximum range).
2. Select a profile that will result in a rifle whose recoil you can manage when sighting in the rifle but also not too heavy to carry. It's a balance. while you don't notice the recoil at the moment of truth, you will curse the rifle when you go sight it in.
3. Make sure you get the most expensive and lightweight glass you can afford. While i have the funds for a nightforce, I don't want a 2lb+ scope on my carry rifle. I also wanted a FFP scope to serve as my back-up rangefinder/ballistic table if my batteries went dead or if i forgot my rangefinder back at camp...trust me, you don't wanna be doing math when that Elk shows up and you know there are other hunters in the area.
4. Make sure you train...i thought i was in shape when i went up there...I lost 15lbs in 9days...we hiked everywhere...it sucked..be prepared for that unless you have a horse.
I've developed a load w 185Bergers and H-4350.
185gr Berger VLD
57.7gr H-4350
Korean Surp Brass
Tula Large Rifle Primers
2,900ft/s.
Next up is some 210VLDs and 215Hybrids...the 1-10 twist will allow my to play w those as well...that advise is also spot-on.
1. Barrel length has been the most difficult decision. I think I'm set on 22". I will have a 10", 20 oz. suppressor hanging off the end of the rifle (I guess I don't have to while hunting though), I'd rather not have the barrel longer or heavier than needed. If people can ding steel out to 1k with a 20" .308, I don't see any reason it can't be done with a 22" 30-06. I don't have any plans of hunting past 600 yards.
2. Dude, tell me about it. I sighted in my rifle with a 22" sporter barrel this past weekend. I shoot and then take a few seconds to get back on target....it was rough.
3. Viper PST 4-6x50 FFP weighs 1.4 lbs. That's not too bad and I'm happy with the glass and features. I have lightweight aluminum rings, that's not a big deal. The weight came from the one piece mount....it's awesome but it's damn heavy. There are few choices for Savage 110's with flat back and very few of those I found in stock when I went to buy. The Farrell were high quality and in stock so that's what I got.
4. I always try to stay in shape. Love some kettle bells.
Should I assume that you're using the 185gr Berger VLD HPBT hunting bullets and not the match? Thanks for the load info, if I can ever find H-4350 again I'll give your load a try. Right now I'm stuck with IMR4895, and Norma 204.
[MENTION=49404]Tx_Flyboy[/MENTION]: love pics of rifles, do you have any of yours you can share?
Thanks for the clarification. Did not realize you intended to hunt suppressed.
I also have an AAC Cyclone that i;m waiting for the Form4 to be approved...it may also accompany me on my hunts.
You asked for pictures, so see below.
I also have an AAC Cyclone that i;m waiting for the Form4 to be approved...it may also accompany me on my hunts.
You asked for pictures, so see below.
I wonder how many people that have posted in this thread have a lot of time behind a 30-06 because a lot of what I am reading here does not correlate with my experience and I am burning out a 30-06 barrel every 5-6 months.
I have used a 1-10 for everything. It may be a tad fast for lighter bullets but it is spot on for 215's so it is the perfect compromise in the 190-200 range. I have pushed 168 Bergers out of it at 3,150 fps and put 5 holes in a group the size of a dime at 100 yards. Twist rate did not hurt my accuracy. I am not splitting hairs like German Salazar is.
I read a lot of the velocities mentioned and I have to scratch my head.... If you are not driving 190's at 2950 to 3K fps or 208's at 2850 to 2900 then you are not getting all you can out of a 30-06. Granted I am using a 28" barrel and that length DOES provide a big improvement in velocity. I would never use a barrel that is less than 28" on a 30-06.. I'd just go with a 308 if you want a 22" barrel. You wont gain anything going to a 30-06 in that short of a barrel.
Quickload is wrong. Minimum length for a 30-06 barrel is 28" to get the most out of the slower burn rate powders that will give you the best velocity. 30" Is as long as you want to go if you want to squeeze out every bit of performance you can out of the cartridge. Anything less than 26" is a complete waste and you may as well stick to a .308
OP, I know you want this for hunting, but honestly, if all you plan to hunt is 600 yards and shoot a short barrel, you may as well use a 308 because you will gain nothing using a 30-06 in a 22" in barrel. The rifle in 22" will be functionally obsolete.
I have used a 1-10 for everything. It may be a tad fast for lighter bullets but it is spot on for 215's so it is the perfect compromise in the 190-200 range. I have pushed 168 Bergers out of it at 3,150 fps and put 5 holes in a group the size of a dime at 100 yards. Twist rate did not hurt my accuracy. I am not splitting hairs like German Salazar is.
I read a lot of the velocities mentioned and I have to scratch my head.... If you are not driving 190's at 2950 to 3K fps or 208's at 2850 to 2900 then you are not getting all you can out of a 30-06. Granted I am using a 28" barrel and that length DOES provide a big improvement in velocity. I would never use a barrel that is less than 28" on a 30-06.. I'd just go with a 308 if you want a 22" barrel. You wont gain anything going to a 30-06 in that short of a barrel.
Quickload is wrong. Minimum length for a 30-06 barrel is 28" to get the most out of the slower burn rate powders that will give you the best velocity. 30" Is as long as you want to go if you want to squeeze out every bit of performance you can out of the cartridge. Anything less than 26" is a complete waste and you may as well stick to a .308
OP, I know you want this for hunting, but honestly, if all you plan to hunt is 600 yards and shoot a short barrel, you may as well use a 308 because you will gain nothing using a 30-06 in a 22" in barrel. The rifle in 22" will be functionally obsolete.
Thanks for the input but I think you're missing the spirit of the original question or maybe you didn't read all my previous posts. I'm already tooled up for 30-06, why would I jump into .308 if it's only going to perform the same as a 30-06 out of a 22" barrel.
When I'm ready to push past .308 ranges and ballistics then I'll just go to 260 or 6.5 Creedmoor.
OK - Why jump into a 30-06 when it is only going to perform the same as a .308 with a 22" barrel?
If you are going to build a 30-06, then build a 30-06 that performs like a modern 30-06 and not a 30-06 that performs like a .308 otherwise it is a waste of potential.
6" of extra barrel length allows you to shoot 30-06 loads that perform like a 300 Win Mag. 6" of barrel length = another 350 - 400 FPS in velocity. If you are hunting at 600 yards that is a lot less drop and a hell of a lot more terminal performance out of the exact same bullet. Cutting off 6" of barrel that gives you that kind of additional performance is like cutting off your nose to spite your face.
Plan to shoot on days with no wind when you do.
Cracks me up... at our long range you can tell who is shooting the 6.5's and under because as soon as the wind kicks up, they pack their shit and go home.
They are not doing that with factory ammo and a standard COAL. Even the best load's bullet is thinking hard about going transonic at that range if it hasn't already.
You don't seem to really grasp the ballistics differences between the 308 and the 30-06. In a 22" barrel - there is no difference. Every advantage a 30-06 will give you has been lost when you cut the barrel down to that length. This statement from above is extremely misleading: I use a 22.5 1/10 and i am happy with it. I was launcing 190s right at 2900 with no signs of pressure just the other day.....
That is impossible in that length of barrel and that bullet weight. I have been at this for YEARS and I am lucky to kiss 3000 FPS with a 190 and if I do, it has to be with Lapua brass and I am going to absolutely trash that case in the process and my accuracy is shit. The best I have ever been able to push a 190 out of a 28" barrel with extreme accuracy is 2940 fps. And this guy is going to do 2900 out of a 22? That is 300 Win Mag performance out of a 22" barreled 30-06? Sorry, that is not going to happen.
If you want 22" then go for it. But I am suggesting to you that it is a waste of potential. If you are going to do a custom barrel then you are insane for cutting it off that short when that extra 6" turns it into a whole different gun. German Salazar was not kidding when he said the optimum length for a 30-06 is 28".
A 22" barrel may be good for brush hunting / quick swings but for peak performance, keep the barrel as long as you can.
As a follow up, a customer of ours was using Quickload and it told him that 76.5 grains of N170 was well below max load on a 300WM. Well, it's above max Just food for thought. I keep my paper books with load data and don't rely on every electronic bang whiz load calculator that comes around
How then do we have two schools of people when it comes to barrel length. From what I've observed from precision rifle instructors, new media (podcasts, gun blogs, online gun media, etc.) and forums, I see two schools of thought on this:
1) Keep the barrel long. Get the most powder burn you can. This will result in the best accuracy.
2) Barrel length should be kept to a reasonable minimum (20" for .308, 300 WSM, etc.) Keep the barrel short and stiff. This will result in the best accuracy.
Anyone care to explain why there is such a divergence in opinion? Can anyone share data that disproves either (1) or (2) above?
NotiousAPP,
The first school of thought is correct. The second school of thought is trendy and theoretical in nature.
Without going into a long dissertation I'll simply leave you with this observation;
What do all the long range precision (bullseye type) shooters run? Yes, long barrels. 30-32". I understand the stiffness argument of short barrels, but it's mostly theoretical. What ever rigidity one gains is more than offset by the crappy velocity they produce making your bullets subject to being acted upon by environmental conditions for a longer period of time.
If there was any real life edge to going with short barrels, the US F-class team, Palma teams, NRA long range teams, 600yard & 1,000yard benchrest crowds, etc would be shooting short barrel rifles.
My recommendations to go with 26" or longer still stands...
Btw, i don't consider "tactical shooting" or shooting silhouette targets "precision shooting".
The first school of thought is correct. The second school of thought is trendy and theoretical in nature.
Without going into a long dissertation I'll simply leave you with this observation;
What do all the long range precision (bullseye type) shooters run? Yes, long barrels. 30-32". I understand the stiffness argument of short barrels, but it's mostly theoretical. What ever rigidity one gains is more than offset by the crappy velocity they produce making your bullets subject to being acted upon by environmental conditions for a longer period of time.
If there was any real life edge to going with short barrels, the US F-class team, Palma teams, NRA long range teams, 600yard & 1,000yard benchrest crowds, etc would be shooting short barrel rifles.
My recommendations to go with 26" or longer still stands...
Btw, i don't consider "tactical shooting" or shooting silhouette targets "precision shooting".
Trendy can sometimes be confused with challenging the status quo.
I'll point you to one study: The Truth About Barrel Length, Muzzle Velocity and Accuracy | The Truth About Guns. I will admit that this study is missing a fundamental piece of information in the results: measurement of error or std dev.....however, it does challenge the long thought belief that simply increasing barrel length increases accuracy.
One guy in the comments sections summed it up perfectly, "There’s more truth to “longer barrel – more energy” than “longer barrel – more accuracy”. But optimum barrel length varies based upon load."
Do you have links to any studies which show that longer barrel life equate to higher precision/accuracy? I'm not being a smart ass here, I'd love to read them. I'm an engineer, I can't help but make decisions based on data.
Notorious,
I am an engineer as well, a Chemical engineer. I also believe in data driven decision making. I've also been out of school long enough to know when when u need to act with best available information rather than wasting your time studying problems or deriving equations that have been solved a long time ago.
I gave you real world examples...you walked right past them without acknowledging it.
One more try. I also shoot competitively. My area of shooting is Highpower rifle shooting,prone (F-class style) shooting and NRA Long range. All my shooting though is done with iron sights, at bullseye targets from 200yards to 1,000yards. While I'm no nationally recognized shooter, or high master, I've shot enough matches and fired many thousands of rounds in these comps to know a little bit about the barrel length issue.
I've also witnessed many new shooters that spent too much time on Internet forums come out to our matches with their "16-20in sub-MOA all day, if I do my part rifles" and realize that their set-ups leads them to drop points that would not have been lost if they had the proper tools (longer barrel) for the job.
Those r my "data points".
It's your turn to find anyone that shoots bullseye type targets (not silhouette, not steel, x-ring targets) at distance and is competitive and recommends short barrel rifles for competition.
I am an engineer as well, a Chemical engineer. I also believe in data driven decision making. I've also been out of school long enough to know when when u need to act with best available information rather than wasting your time studying problems or deriving equations that have been solved a long time ago.
I gave you real world examples...you walked right past them without acknowledging it.
One more try. I also shoot competitively. My area of shooting is Highpower rifle shooting,prone (F-class style) shooting and NRA Long range. All my shooting though is done with iron sights, at bullseye targets from 200yards to 1,000yards. While I'm no nationally recognized shooter, or high master, I've shot enough matches and fired many thousands of rounds in these comps to know a little bit about the barrel length issue.
I've also witnessed many new shooters that spent too much time on Internet forums come out to our matches with their "16-20in sub-MOA all day, if I do my part rifles" and realize that their set-ups leads them to drop points that would not have been lost if they had the proper tools (longer barrel) for the job.
Those r my "data points".
It's your turn to find anyone that shoots bullseye type targets (not silhouette, not steel, x-ring targets) at distance and is competitive and recommends short barrel rifles for competition.
[MENTION=49404]Tx_Flyboy[/MENTION]:
I do absolutely see the value in longer barrels when shooting iron sights. All my comments above are in regards to scoped rifle shooting.
To be fair, I do see logic in your comment regarding F-class/NRA vs silhouette/steel and how there could be a divergence in opinion on barrel length. Several of the "experts" who preferred shorter barrels were shooting scoped rifles at steel, not paper for small groups.
Would love to join you for a match the next time I'm in Houston. I'll bring my SBR
I do absolutely see the value in longer barrels when shooting iron sights. All my comments above are in regards to scoped rifle shooting.
To be fair, I do see logic in your comment regarding F-class/NRA vs silhouette/steel and how there could be a divergence in opinion on barrel length. Several of the "experts" who preferred shorter barrels were shooting scoped rifles at steel, not paper for small groups.
Would love to join you for a match the next time I'm in Houston. I'll bring my SBR
Notorious,
Come in down, we'd love to have ya.
My comments about the long barrel is irrespective of iron sights/scoped rifle class.
Look at it this way; Say your SBR shoots 100% better groups than a 26" barreled rifle in same caliber (the difference in accuracy is nowhere near this, but we r taking extremes to illustrate a point) but you are giving up about 200ft/s in velocity. Let's also assume we r talking about a 308 rifle shooting 175 SMK.
Furthermore, Both rifles r capable of the following groups at 1,000yards:
SBR: 4"
26" rifle; 8"
A missed 1mph change in wind speed will move your POI horizontally by 1.3MOA (~13.4inches) more than the longer barrel rifle killing whatever theoretical advantage in accuracy your SBR has.
See what I mean?
Come in down, we'd love to have ya.
My comments about the long barrel is irrespective of iron sights/scoped rifle class.
Look at it this way; Say your SBR shoots 100% better groups than a 26" barreled rifle in same caliber (the difference in accuracy is nowhere near this, but we r taking extremes to illustrate a point) but you are giving up about 200ft/s in velocity. Let's also assume we r talking about a 308 rifle shooting 175 SMK.
Furthermore, Both rifles r capable of the following groups at 1,000yards:
SBR: 4"
26" rifle; 8"
A missed 1mph change in wind speed will move your POI horizontally by 1.3MOA (~13.4inches) more than the longer barrel rifle killing whatever theoretical advantage in accuracy your SBR has.
See what I mean?
OK what is wrong with this statement is, you wont get the best accuracy, you will get the best velocity. Accuracy has nothing to do with barrel length.
And this is wrong as well for the exact same reason. Barrel length has nothing to do with accuracy.
Assuming your hardware is tuned and used correctly what do you do to make an accurate shot? You tune the ammo to what the barrel likes. That is where you get your accuracy.
Good thread guys! Graham and Greg. You guys have me re-thinking my 22" 10 twist barrel
for a 400 yrd 06 Elk rifle. Now 25-26" seems to have a certain appeal now. I like to have the
deck stacked in my favor
for a 400 yrd 06 Elk rifle. Now 25-26" seems to have a certain appeal now. I like to have the
deck stacked in my favor
Going back to the original question - My 30-06 has a 27" 11twist pipe and does just fine with 200Hybrid, 210VLD & 208Amax even at sealevel in winter.. Have never tried 215Hybrids but I would take a SWAG that they would want a bit more RPM..
Good thread guys! Graham and Greg. You guys have me re-thinking my 22" 10 twist barrel
for a 400 yrd 06 Elk rifle. Now 25-26" seems to have a certain appeal now. I like to have the
deck stacked in my favor
Does that mean you'll be selling your 30-06 barrel?
So now we agree a few more inches is better? Don't ask my wife that question
Bazinga!!!
...the need or desire for a few more inches depends on the application. 22" may still be ideal for my intended application of this rifle but I've decided to up the length to 24".
Anyone have recommendations on how I should request the neck diameter for the barrel? Will they really ream it to whatever I want or do barrel makers typically have one reamer and you get what they have? I'm doing a Savage pre-fit from Criterion.
Is neck diameter something I need to measure on my reloads or reload to for the next batch of handloads?
Is neck diameter something I need to measure on my reloads or reload to for the next batch of handloads?
Notorious,
If it's a pre-fit barrel, you may not have a choice. Dont worry, the savage barrels turn in outstanding accuracy.
If this is a custom barrel, insist on the Serengeti reamer from PTG. It lets you play with the heavies without requiring mid-weight bullets (175s & 185s be unable to reach the lands).
Glad to see you opting for a 24" tube...you will not regret it. Remember, long range hunting is more like bullseye shooting than simply hitting anywhere on steel; you have to place the shot in the 12" vital for an Elk and 8" vital for deer/antelope....very hard to do with shorter barrels. Stack the odds in your favor with the longer tube.
My savage factory barrel is amazing!
If it's a pre-fit barrel, you may not have a choice. Dont worry, the savage barrels turn in outstanding accuracy.
If this is a custom barrel, insist on the Serengeti reamer from PTG. It lets you play with the heavies without requiring mid-weight bullets (175s & 185s be unable to reach the lands).
Glad to see you opting for a 24" tube...you will not regret it. Remember, long range hunting is more like bullseye shooting than simply hitting anywhere on steel; you have to place the shot in the 12" vital for an Elk and 8" vital for deer/antelope....very hard to do with shorter barrels. Stack the odds in your favor with the longer tube.
My savage factory barrel is amazing!
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Yep, will be a pre fit manufactured by criterion, they will be reaming the chamber. I'll ask them about the Serengeti reamer. What do you mean "175 & 185's be unable to reach the lands"?
Placed the order for the Criterion barrel today...feels good to finally put that past me! 24", varmint contour, 1:10, recessed crown, stainless bead blast, 5/8x24 threaded. Now I have 4 months to wait .
Criterion only offered one choice for a reamer. They said they use a "hunting freebore", I'm guessing that this is a short freebore and will limit the maximum bullet weight I can use. Does anyone see any issues with using bullets up to 200 grain with this type of freebore? Unfortunately I can't tell you the exact freebore distance, I've requested the print for the reamer they're using but haven't received it yet. I can tell you the following:
Neck diameter = 0.3404"
Throat = 0.3106
.Criterion only offered one choice for a reamer. They said they use a "hunting freebore", I'm guessing that this is a short freebore and will limit the maximum bullet weight I can use. Does anyone see any issues with using bullets up to 200 grain with this type of freebore? Unfortunately I can't tell you the exact freebore distance, I've requested the print for the reamer they're using but haven't received it yet. I can tell you the following:
Neck diameter = 0.3404"
Throat = 0.3106
Thanks for your order! I attempted to forward the requested reamer print earlier this afternoon. Please let me know if it didn't make it into your inbox. Hopefully that helps answer your question, but if it doesn't do the trick please let me know. In the meantime we'll get to work on that order. It just crossed my desk and will be added to the next batch scheduled to begin production.
-Josh
-Josh
Great choice in my opinion.
1/10 twist gives you a little more latitude if you ever want to go subsonic. Also the extra cetrifugal force helps opening up the monolithic hunting bullets and higher goo factor with varmint bullets.
I've got a Douglas #7 contour on my heavy 30-06. It's a little heavier than needed. Shoots great, but no need to carry around that much weight.
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Well isn't that just damn cool. I put in an order for a Criterion barrel with a 3rd party vendor and the OEM hits me up on the forum to let me know they received my order and it's in the queue. We're living in the future! Thanks Josh.
....one request Josh, can you make sure my barrel is fabricated Tues-Thurs only....I don't want the Monday hangover contour on my barrel!!!
Forgot to mention that I did not receive the reamer print in my inbox. Were you sending it as a snipershide PM or my personal email?
All I can say is I am launching 190s out of a 22.5 inch barrel at 2800 FPS, using RL22. I did go up to 2850 but I figured I should back off because I developed the load in the fall/winter so I didn't know what it would do come July. I switched to H4350 and I am still 2780 so I didn't loose much. I think that is a vast improvement over a .308..
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