$300 Billion in student loan "forgiven".... how generous

[Aussieusa]

Hmmm, no one complained about getting a $600 check to buy gun stuff....

I was thinking the same thing. I’m not sure if this is mentioned else where in the comments, but is anyone else going to buy gun stuff now that wife’s student loan balance that you have been paying off the past 12 years will be a little less?

I’ve got my eye on a Gen III Razor.

 

[Downzero]

There is no good guy capable of changing this shit from the inside. He is only adding lower to the system itself. I view all in government including the low level employee as being either active conspirators, complicit of it once recognized, or ignorant to the realities. Either way the end result is tyranny. Every single person in all institutions work together with directives starting at the top and carried out towards the bottom. I can not look past the man that is “just doing his job” working for this Satanic behemoth of a gov’t.

I really think there are two serious problems with this logic.

The first is that institutions have a culture and they do change. So if everyone believed like you and were absolutely opposed to changing things from the inside, that is a self-fulfilling prophecy. The reason I say that I agree with you more than I disagree is that 14 or so years ago when I left federal government service, I cashed out my federal pension. I did so because I had zero intention of ever working in government again. I was persuaded otherwise because I learned that there really are accountable government officials and it takes good people inside and outside to make that happen. Government is inefficient and sluggish, but in most cases, government is not evil. I also worked in the private sector and didn't see a whole lot of difference--20% of the people do 80% of the work everywhere. I still don't work for the feds and I don't think I would seriously consider it again. But the logic still stands--if you can work for a good place and do some good for the people, then the government, like any other employer, can be a good place for a decent and hard working person to work.

The other reason I have a serious problem with this thinking is that it is ad hominem. Think about it this way: one of my good friends is a police officer. He's just as digusted with law enforcement abuses and excess as any of us. The complaints you and I would have, he would agree with. And he's really really good at his job. We'd all be better off if every cop was even half as good as him. So what is he to do? He only has a few years left. Is he supposed to quit and find a new way to support his family? Even though he knows that he's doing his very best work for the people and that will leave only the incompetent people behind? Why should he feel guilty that other people suck? And why does he carry the blame for the incompetence and ineptitude of others, when he himself goes to work every day and is the change we all want in the world?

America is a very individualistic country. The allegation that any institution is "top down" and everything is carried out is just wrong. That's why good managers pretend like we're all a family or a team, because Americans don't like being told what to do. No person in any American institution exercises power this way, not even in a business where one guy owns the whole thing. It may seem like that, but if you think about it, no American institution works that way. To be that way would be unamerican. That's not how we function.

 

[wade2big]

I really think there are two serious problems with this logic.

The first is that institutions have a culture and they do change. So if everyone believed like you and were absolutely opposed to changing things from the inside, that is a self-fulfilling prophecy. The reason I say that I agree with you more than I disagree is that 14 or so years ago when I left federal government service, I cashed out my federal pension. I did so because I had zero intention of ever working in government again. I was persuaded otherwise because I learned that there really are accountable government officials and it takes good people inside and outside to make that happen. Government is inefficient and sluggish, but in most cases, government is not evil. I also worked in the private sector and didn't see a whole lot of difference--20% of the people do 80% of the work everywhere. I still don't work for the feds and I don't think I would seriously consider it again. But the logic still stands--if you can work for a good place and do some good for the people, then the government, like any other employer, can be a good place for a decent and hard working person to work.

The other reason I have a serious problem with this thinking is that it is ad hominem. Think about it this way: one of my good friends is a police officer. He's just as digusted with law enforcement abuses and excess as any of us. The complaints you and I would have, he would agree with. And he's really really good at his job. We'd all be better off if every cop was even half as good as him. So what is he to do? He only has a few years left. Is he supposed to quit and find a new way to support his family? Even though he knows that he's doing his very best work for the people and that will leave only the incompetent people behind? Why should he feel guilty that other people suck? And why does he carry the blame for the incompetence and ineptitude of others, when he himself goes to work every day and is the change we all want in the world?

America is a very individualistic country. The allegation that any institution is "top down" and everything is carried out is just wrong. That's why good managers pretend like we're all a family or a team, because Americans don't like being told what to do. No person in any American institution exercises power this way, not even in a business where one guy owns the whole thing. It may seem like that, but if you think about it, no American institution works that way. To be that way would be unamerican. That's not how we function.

If I dedicated my life to gov’t as you did, It would be harder for me to see and understand the truth as well. A man literally and willfully signs over his individuality and personal sovereignty when he takes the job and this especially rings true to mil and to a lesser extent, the police. A man has to have total and unquestionably confidence in the handful of men that make the decisions for millions. A gov’t true believer if you will. Knowing all this, it would take a lot of courage and honesty to pause and look at things as they are and not what is a manufactured lie and admit to one’s self that he lived a lie and worked for something he thought to be good and was anything but. He would have to admit to being deceived by the ones he trusted his life too. That pill is hard to swallow for most. I admit that I was deceived and what I once thought was at least neutral was anything but.

As for your cop friend in your example, it all depends on his perspective and what he can live with. Understanding what I know to be true now, I couldn’t continue on if I was him. I would have to make too many moral concessions to do so and I WILL NOT MAKE A ONE at this point in my life. Maybe your friend can take shots he doesn’t want, arrest parents at school board meetings, and continue to do what he is told even though it can change on a political whim and goes against what he knows to be true and right while being able to sleep like a baby at night afterwards. I’ve come to realize that most men can do such things and there are few that actually wouldn’t under any circumstance.

Good conversation. Have a good one.

 

[pineoak]

@Downzero

I agree with you.

Institutional inertia is real (Travis Haley says so). That said, if it was insurmountable, Leftists would not have taken over higher education, lower education, churches, corporations, etc.

My issue with not supporting good police individuals is that in time they will leave the force. Then they WILL be replaced. By the not-good police individuals. Leaving us as citizens in a state worse than we were in previously. Same applies to any large organization.

 

[Downzero]

@Downzero

I agree with you.

Institutional inertia is real (Travis Haley says so). That said, if it was insurmountable, Leftists would not have taken over higher education, lower education, churches, corporations, etc.

My issue with not supporting good police individuals is that in time they will leave the force. Then they WILL be replaced. By the not-good police individuals. Leaving us as citizens in a state worse than we were in previously. Same applies to any large organization.

These institutions need good people. It's us, the 20%, who do 80% of the work. Even if they ought not exist. Even if they're corrupt. If no good people stay, these institutions will be as awful as the people who remain.

I used to teach college and I would have loved to do it--but with what is going on in the university these days, I'm glad that I'm FAR away from that stuff. It'd take someone much tougher than me to deal with that--private or public just the same there.

 

[DarnYankeeUSMC]

So you cashed out a retirement and didn't pay your financial responsibility?
Please keep digging your hole.

I really think there are two serious problems with this logic.

The first is that institutions have a culture and they do change. So if everyone believed like you and were absolutely opposed to changing things from the inside, that is a self-fulfilling prophecy. The reason I say that I agree with you more than I disagree is that 14 or so years ago when I left federal government service, I cashed out my federal pension. I did so because I had zero intention of ever working in government again. I was persuaded otherwise because I learned that there really are accountable government officials and it takes good people inside and outside to make that happen. Government is inefficient and sluggish, but in most cases, government is not evil. I also worked in the private sector and didn't see a whole lot of difference--20% of the people do 80% of the work everywhere. I still don't work for the feds and I don't think I would seriously consider it again. But the logic still stands--if you can work for a good place and do some good for the people, then the government, like any other employer, can be a good place for a decent and hard working person to work.

The other reason I have a serious problem with this thinking is that it is ad hominem. Think about it this way: one of my good friends is a police officer. He's just as digusted with law enforcement abuses and excess as any of us. The complaints you and I would have, he would agree with. And he's really really good at his job. We'd all be better off if every cop was even half as good as him. So what is he to do? He only has a few years left. Is he supposed to quit and find a new way to support his family? Even though he knows that he's doing his very best work for the people and that will leave only the incompetent people behind? Why should he feel guilty that other people suck? And why does he carry the blame for the incompetence and ineptitude of others, when he himself goes to work every day and is the change we all want in the world?

America is a very individualistic country. The allegation that any institution is "top down" and everything is carried out is just wrong. That's why good managers pretend like we're all a family or a team, because Americans don't like being told what to do. No person in any American institution exercises power this way, not even in a business where one guy owns the whole thing. It may seem like that, but if you think about it, no American institution works that way. To be that way would be unamerican. That's not how we function.

And just like your cop buddy. Why should the taxpayers be on the hook for your lack of financial stability?

 

[UKDslayer]

^^^^^ This. Reparations.

Not just that. To the people who are saying "It's to but votes"...thats might be true but it serving a greater purpose of pissing off those who follow the rules.

 

[UKDslayer]

Nothing has happened yet. They have been saying they were going to forgive loans nationally for how many election cycles now?

Why not just remove the interest on the loans and have everyone pay them back?

They said they were going to spend 30M on crack pipe kits, that included pipe, a few vitamins, alcohol swab. They then said they wouldn't do it due to pushback...and then they did it anyway.

 

[Rthur]

They are signing up/have signed loans exactly like the ones and for the degrees that cried for this handout right this second...

R

 

[Downzero]

So you cashed out a retirement and didn't pay your financial responsibility?
Please keep digging your hole.


And just like your cop buddy. Why should the taxpayers be on the hook for your lack of financial stability?

You seem confused about the fact. A FERS retirement is a tiny amount of self contribution that you can cash out if you walk after a few years. Mine wasn't enough to pay for a cart full of groceries. The day I did that, I had zero debt in the world. Not a car, not a house, nothing. So if you're mad that I didn't save that $300 to give to you, my apologies.

The answer to your second question for PLSF participants is that the taxpayers are on the hook because they promised us they would in a bill that was passed by a bipartisan majority of Congress and signed into law by President George W. Bush. If that hadn't happened, I would not have even considered spending the last 8 1/2 years working for less than half of the median salary for my occupation, and I'm sure that is true for a lot of other PLSF participants, e.g., physicians who joined the Army after medical school with $200k in debt on a $70k salary or whatever a Captain is making these days.

If we were talking about someone with an average amount of undergraduate college debt, paying their student loans is a matter of inconvenience, but for those of us with professional school bills to pay + the joke of a salary the government pays, it is literally impossible to pay the debt. When I began my (new) career, the monthly obligation exceeded my entire after tax income. No that isn't an exaggeration. That is why people need to think critically about this, because it's not as simple as it seems. The government loaned money to people that it KNEW many would not be able to pay. Maybe I could have paid it, but I made the decision a long time ago to do PLSF. Maybe that was a good gamble, I'll never know. But now that I'm 8 years along a 10 year path, I do not have the option to go back and make twice what I made for the last 8 years and put half of that much greater income toward the loans.

The taxpayers owe my cop friend because he took an oath to give his life for the community if need be and that means leaving his wife and kids behind. I have no problem with that, and if you do, you're a bad person.

 

[Redmanss]

Here's a thought...

What will the psychological result of this bailout be for those still holding loans, in hopes there's another round of the same or greater? Will this further disincentivize paying off their loans ahead of schedule? If so, to what degree? Depending on that, how much greater will those balances become when they aren't even meeting their accrued interest each month?

I have a feeling it will be exactly that, a much higher percentage of people will seek to pay the minimums on their loans only, letting balances balloon while many additional fall into default, all because they have been encouraged to not pay what they government will likely pay for them.

It will eventually hit "too big to fail" classification. I'd like to see some estimates of those numbers, but we all know not a single university would dare approve and much less publish any study on this subject.

 

[AngryKoala]

They said they were going to spend 30M on crack pipe kits, that included pipe, a few vitamins, alcohol swab. They they said they wouldn't do it due to pushback...and then they did it anyway.

I'll believe all this when I see it actually happen. They said it was illegal to do it without congress (Yea, I know when has that stopped them) but this is all a ploy for votes.

 

[Dmvadala]

its so easy for them to spend other peoples money just to buy votes.

 

[W54/XM-388]

Will this further disincentivize paying off their loans ahead of schedule?

The way most student loans are structured, there is NO reason (other than just wanting to be debt free) to pay them off early as you still pay the full amount of interest (which you paid up front in the beginning of the payments) regardless of if you pay it off early.

Student loans are just about the most evil, predatory, unconscionable loans possible in mainstream society.

It's a big scam to enslave the youth while helping the rich and politicians get richer.

To hell with "forgiving" the student loans which means the taxpayers or the national debt picks up the full amount.
What we should be doing is kicking the greedy bankers, universities and politicians in the non-existent nuts and saying oh guess what, you don't get to get all the ill gotten gains you thought you were going to get. You'll get your money back and that's all as a punishment for your corrupt evil ways.

 

[Redmanss]

The way most student loans are structured, there is NO reason (other than just wanting to be debt free) to pay them off early as you still pay the full amount of interest (which you paid up front in the beginning of the payments) regardless of if you pay it off early.

Student loans are just about the most evil, predatory, unconscionable loans possible in mainstream society.

It's a big scam to enslave the youth while helping the rich and politicians get richer.

To hell with "forgiving" the student loans which means the taxpayers or the national debt picks up the full amount.
What we should be doing is kicking the greedy bankers, universities and politicians in the non-existent nuts and saying oh guess what, you don't get to get all the ill gotten gains you thought you were going to get. You'll get your money back and that's all as a punishment for your corrupt evil ways.

Um, maybe I'm reading this wrong but it sounds like you're saying all interest is paid up front and you only pay on the principal after the interest portion is paid in full, with no further accrual from that point. Perhaps that's the case with some types of loans, but typical federally subsidized loans are like any traditional loan where interest accrues either daily or monthly, based on the terms of the loan when accepted.

Now maybe I'm off base with that general understanding, especially since I've never had a student loan, but I know about my wife's loan and it's exactly that, accruing interest all the time and very easy to balloon.

 

[W54/XM-388]

Um, maybe I'm reading this wrong but it sounds like you're saying all interest is paid up front and you only pay on the principal after the interest portion is paid in full, with no further accrual from that point. Perhaps that's the case with some types of loans, but typical federally subsidized loans are like any traditional loan where interest accrues either daily or monthly, based on the terms of the loan when accepted.

Now maybe I'm off base with that general understanding, especially since I've never had a student loan, but I know about my wife's loan and it's exactly that, accruing interest all the time and very easy to balloon.

I'm just going by what the student loans one of my relatives has.
After the better part of 10 years of paying they were finally the principal of the loan.

 

[AngryKoala]

Um, maybe I'm reading this wrong but it sounds like you're saying all interest is paid up front and you only pay on the principal after the interest portion is paid in full, with no further accrual from that point. Perhaps that's the case with some types of loans, but typical federally subsidized loans are like any traditional loan where interest accrues either daily or monthly, based on the terms of the loan when accepted.

Now maybe I'm off base with that general understanding, especially since I've never had a student loan, but I know about my wife's loan and it's exactly that, accruing interest all the time and very easy to balloon.

Interest is accrued monthly based on the rate/total. Paying them off faster means less interest paid thus a lower total. That's how I understand it which is why this freeze has been great. Made some good headway on the total.

 

[KZP]

I just took out a loan to pay for the loans the government loaned to people who didn't want to pay back their loan. Email has been sent to the white house to get this loan forgiven too. Pretty sure we can solve the debt crisis if the government just forgives all their own loans. I'm not understanding why they haven't done this strategy sooner.

 

[n2ishun]

I just took out a loan to pay for the loans the government loaned to people who didn't want to pay back their loan. Email has been sent to the white house to get this loan forgiven too. Pretty sure we can solve the debt crisis if the government just forgives all their own loans. I'm not understanding why they haven't done this strategy sooner.

Wait......
What ?

 

[143lrsd]

 

[Marinevet1]

I believe that if you aren't making enough money to pay off the loan(s) you took out to get an education, you made a bad career choice.

 

[pineoak]

ZeroHedge

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero

www.zerohedge.com

 

[DIBBS]

 

[Hobo Hilton]

And here is how kids got into this mess.

The University of Texas is offering a class on the songs of Taylor Swift | CNN

A Texas university is giving students a chance to study Taylor Swift lyrics alongside works by such icons of literature as Shakespeare, John Keats and Robert Frost.

www.cnn.com

 

[pineoak]

studying Taylor Swift... lazy rivers... alcohol... hot females...

Are students paying for an education or a 4 year vacation?

 

[babyguppy]

studying Taylor Swift... lazy rivers... alcohol... hot females...

Are students paying for an education or a 4 year vacation?

ahhh, relax, you are paying for it, not them.

 

[lariat]

Interesting read

Axios: Biden and team stunningly unprepared for their trillion-dollar Academia bailout

hotair.com

 

[pineoak]

Everything they do is:

1. announce first
2. don't tell the office in charge of it
3. don't have a website that works
4. don't worry about whether it's legal or not
5. blame the other side for any issues
6. promise more BS for voters
7. deliver more disaster to our economy

 

[AngryKoala]

Everything they do is:

1. announce first
2. don't tell the office in charge of it
3. don't have a website that works
4. don't worry about whether it's legal or not
5. blame the other side for any issues
6. promise more BS for voters
7. deliver more disaster to our economy

It is legal unfortunately.

 

[Rthur]

It is legal unfortunately.

Elaborate.

R

 

[AngryKoala]

Elaborate.

R

Mainly because there is no one with legal standing to challenge it except maybe the loan institutions but they may not be able to either.

 

[Rthur]

Mainly because there is no one with legal standing to challenge it except maybe the loan institutions but they may not be able to either.

Im interested in the legal standing that says the Pres can pull an EO to do this.

R

 

[AngryKoala]

Im interested in the legal standing that says the Pres can pull an EO to do this.

R

Enactment of the Heroes act from 2003.

Also, not the president but the education secretary is given the power.

 

[Softtail103]

My wife and I passed up many very nice vacations and other things to save for our 3 sons educations. Now they are all done and working and prospering. We have now been cheated out of at least the feeling of a parental accomplishment. No drag on society, no need for help. Now to have this bullshit with no refund coming our way. Did these people even finish their degrees? If yes then are they using their degrees? They won’t even let you feel satisfied in life.

 

[Bigfatcock]

Full refunds.

 

[pineoak]

 

[Sean the Nailer]

I believe that if you aren't making enough money to pay off the loan(s) you took out to get an education, you made a bad career choice.

While this is one-hundred percent accurate..... I have to ask, what/how can repercussions of said 'bad career choices' be formalized?

As much as I like the idea of 'stocks' in the public square.... the very minimum that I would support is "chain-gangs" to EARN the ability to pay-off their debts AND the interest accrued.

There are plenty of roads that need work, and it don't need to be done by a single machine driven by a single operator. There are fleets of shovels and sledgehammers and picks ready to be issued. There are plenty of ditches that need digging, and/or cleaned-out. Again, shovels and picks.

All without a single cent due from the taxpayer. But ALL the taxpayers benefit. Hell, even the ditch-diggers will benefit. In the end.

"bad career choices" should have repercussions. As should 'bad choices'. At the same time, "stupidity SHOULD be painful".....


Is anyone seeing a trend here?

 

[Bigfatcock]

Make debtor prisons great again.

 

[AngryKoala]

While this is one-hundred percent accurate..... I have to ask, what/how can repercussions of said 'bad career choices' be formalized?

As much as I like the idea of 'stocks' in the public square.... the very minimum that I would support is "chain-gangs" to EARN the ability to pay-off their debts AND the interest accrued.

There are plenty of roads that need work, and it don't need to be done by a single machine driven by a single operator. There are fleets of shovels and sledgehammers and picks ready to be issued. There are plenty of ditches that need digging, and/or cleaned-out. Again, shovels and picks.

All without a single cent due from the taxpayer. But ALL the taxpayers benefit. Hell, even the ditch-diggers will benefit. In the end.

"bad career choices" should have repercussions. As should 'bad choices'. At the same time, "stupidity SHOULD be painful".....


Is anyone seeing a trend here?

Government sponsored sex workers would get their debt paid off pretty quickly.

 

[cnwrobb]

Just a thought….maybe reduce welfare payments and other entitlements given to the so called “poor and disadvantaged” to pay for the college debt fiasco instead of raising taxes on the working class……or maybe layoff 1/3 of the government work force till debt is repaid

 

[wade2big]

Just a thought….maybe reduce welfare payments and other entitlements given to the so called “poor and disadvantaged” to pay for the college debt fiasco instead of raising taxes on the working class……or maybe layoff 1/3 of the government work force till debt is repaid

They couldn’t cheat elections as easily if they don’t feed their voters. You just attacked their base. Welfare rats and gov employees (one in the same actually) sprinkled with indoctrinated youth make up almost all who vote democrat.

While the republican party is just as evil and twisted as the democrat party, the bulk of the people who still for some reason identify with and vote for the republican party aren’t. The same cannot be said about the other side.

 

[W54/XM-388]

Just a thought….maybe reduce welfare payments and other entitlements given to the so called “poor and disadvantaged” to pay for the college debt fiasco instead of raising taxes on the working class……or maybe layoff 1/3 of the government work force till debt is repaid

Or maybe you know give less kickbacks and payments to the mega rich and to corrupt foreign countries that bribe politicians?

I'll bet that 20 billon, 40 billion, 60 billion, 80 billion or however much we are giving to that corrupt Zelensky to give kickbacks to our politicians could go a long way towards paying for college for folks in our country.

 

[Bigfatcock]

Full refunds.

 

[LawnMM]

Just a thought….maybe reduce welfare payments and other entitlements given to the so called “poor and disadvantaged” to pay for the college debt fiasco instead of raising taxes on the working class……or maybe layoff 1/3 of the government work force till debt is repaid

That's why government shutdowns are a joke

They'll never last. Frankly, all they do is illustrate how useless government is.

I remember the last one under Trump and all the hand wringing. I say great, shut it down and leave it that way.

Once people realize how little the big bad federal government actually does for the average citizen they'll be less apt to worry about dumb political posturing like this in the future.

They might not want to pay taxes anymore. Might not want to keep electing criminals to office to enrich themselves off the backs of the common folk. Probably be a great thing for the country as a whole.

 

[W54/XM-388]

That's why government shutdowns are a joke

They'll never last. Frankly, all they do is illustrate how useless government is.

During all the last "shutdowns" the government actually spent more money trying to punish citizens for not handing over unlimited money than they would normally spend.

For example, barricading normally wide open monuments, sending storm troopers to kick people off their beach homes, barricading national parks and such.

Oh and that was just because they were upset they had to live with the same amount of money in the next year as the last year instead of getting a huge bump up.

 

[SnowMan]

Sometimes you have to look for a positive. We got a half built wall and several billion doses of Hydroxychloroquine, so we got that going for us.

 

[Downzero]

While this is one-hundred percent accurate..... I have to ask, what/how can repercussions of said 'bad career choices' be formalized?

As much as I like the idea of 'stocks' in the public square.... the very minimum that I would support is "chain-gangs" to EARN the ability to pay-off their debts AND the interest accrued.

There are plenty of roads that need work, and it don't need to be done by a single machine driven by a single operator. There are fleets of shovels and sledgehammers and picks ready to be issued. There are plenty of ditches that need digging, and/or cleaned-out. Again, shovels and picks.

All without a single cent due from the taxpayer. But ALL the taxpayers benefit. Hell, even the ditch-diggers will benefit. In the end.

"bad career choices" should have repercussions. As should 'bad choices'. At the same time, "stupidity SHOULD be painful".....


Is anyone seeing a trend here?

The loans were made with the taxpayer's money, so there is no money "due." It's gone. The question is what to do with the receivable. That probably shouldn't have happened, but it's the reality.

Bad career choices do have repercussions. The difference is that unlike any other business-type investment, student loans are forever. At least Sears and KMart's owners aren't hitched up to the plow forever; those businesses are just gone.

The best part of this debate I've seen this week are two classes of my friends who are going off half cocked about the loan forgiveness:

1. At least one professor on my facebook friends list came out against it. The student loan fiasco is perhaps the greatest welfare program in the history of the United States in his favor, but we should hitch up to the plow forever so he can enjoy his $300k a year salary to teach 3 classes a week.

2. Police officers. They get $50-60k in "training" for free just to be able to do their job, and not only do we pay for it, they get paid while they are doing it even though a good number of them never make it to the end. Now they're mad that other people got some debt forgiveness after they gave up years of their lives to go to school and then have to hitch up to a huge debt.

I definitely don't have a solution, but I know there are people out there that could never pay it back. Those are the ones we should be worried about. The ones who owe $20k or something need to pay. But $20k doesn't buy much college these days thanks to the government ruining everything.

 

[Bigfatcock]

Full refunds

 

[lariat]

The loans were made with the taxpayer's money, so there is no money "due." It's gone. The question is what to do with the receivable. That probably shouldn't have happened, but it's the reality.

Bad career choices do have repercussions. The difference is that unlike any other business-type investment, student loans are forever. At least Sears and KMart's owners aren't hitched up to the plow forever; those businesses are just gone.

The best part of this debate I've seen this week are two classes of my friends who are going off half cocked about the loan forgiveness:

1. At least one professor on my facebook friends list came out against it. The student loan fiasco is perhaps the greatest welfare program in the history of the United States in his favor, but we should hitch up to the plow forever so he can enjoy his $300k a year salary to teach 3 classes a week.

2. Police officers. They get $50-60k in "training" for free just to be able to do their job, and not only do we pay for it, they get paid while they are doing it even though a good number of them never make it to the end. Now they're mad that other people got some debt forgiveness after they gave up years of their lives to go to school and then have to hitch up to a huge debt.

I definitely don't have a solution, but I know there are people out there that could never pay it back. Those are the ones we should be worried about. The ones who owe $20k or something need to pay. But $20k doesn't buy much college these days thanks to the government ruining everything.

I have read your posts and replied to them. You seem to be a decent dude and I do sympathize with the situation you and others here have with school debt. I had some and paid them off, up to and including selling an operational vehicle to pay them off at the expense of a reliable ride but I wanted that debt off my mind. I was able to do that because I worked full time while I went to school and limited my debt load. Working through college caused malnutrition issues among other things because I couldn't afford food, but I got through it. I paid off my loans because it was owed. I'm not saying you are one of those that just want the world to pay for their loans, but they are out there and I suspect the number isn't small. Those people I have little regard or sympathy for because they are not grateful for the chance to go to college on the back of everyone else in society. It also seems that they have learned nothing from the experience; all indications are that they do not intend to learn anything and will move to the next handout when things get "hard".

But to address your points: professors are overpaid. I think that most profs will find that their skill set will not allow them to find a job in the free market that values what little they can offer. Most educators should not be expected to want non-forgiveness of loans because it means they would have to "step down" in to the real world of WORK. Not all profs are like this, but there are many. I have contempt for those types.

Regarding the officers - if I am correct (someone tell me if this is not so), they are employed during the time of the academy, so getting through the academy is their job. Few would be able to go through if they had to pull out of their savings. Its a catch-22. I get where you are coming from but the police officer route you used may be a bad example. Later in life when I was going through my medical training I wasn't paid, but some who were with the FD or were cops were. It is what it is.

What you are seeing on this thread is an acknowledgement and flat out rejection of a lack of gratitude and an unwillingness to work to fulfill one's obligations. This is mixed with an administration that has issued an EO that may well be unconstitutional just to get votes in November from those who are unthinking/uncaring for their fellow citizen and want their fellow citizen to pay for their decisions. How is this different from welfare? Not all of these debt holders are bad, so don't think I am saying that. What I am saying is that most are being manipulated (again) and don't even know it. I'm not saying you are in this camp or anyone else here, but I am definitely saying that this disregard for self responsibilities and others is indicative of how far we have fallen in this country.

 

[Forrest84]

Our dollar value is so fucked lol oh man y’all better hang on for the ride cause it ain’t slowing down no time soon