Hunting & Fishing 300 whisper Deer Eradication Program

[reeljob]

I am beginning my research tonight with the goal of finding a sub-sonic deer round for a deer eradication program I will be working with. The rifle will be 300 whisper and will be used in an urban enviroment. I know someone is expierenced in this and I am seeking help based on facts and not opinions. The rifle is intergally surpressed and the load will need to be at or near subsonic. I am looking for leathality inside 100 yards with terminal ballistics which will with a well placed shot not allow deer to run off and expire.
Does anyone have expierence with the Lapua 200 subsonic bullet in this application or am I starting off in the wrongplace.I am also studying the Hornady 200 RN. I do not want to use match bullets or bullets seated backwards. The finished load must be both leathal and "professional" for lack of a better word.
I appreciate any help you may offer. You may also PM me if you have firsthand info that you do not wish to share with the public. This is a LE program and I understand possible sensitivity with open discussion related to this topic.

Barry

 

[tansinator]

Re: 300 whisper Deer Eradication Program

With subsonics they will run off, period. Sure with brain shots they will drop. Anything other than that you never know. I have shot numerous whitetails with 300 whisper and zero fell right where shot with subs.


Eddie

 

[Bill the Lurker]

Re: 300 whisper Deer Eradication Program

Barry, PM sent.

 

[reeljob]

Re: 300 whisper Deer Eradication Program

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bill the Lurker</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Barry, PM sent. </div></div>

Thank you

 

[coldboremiracle]

Re: 300 whisper Deer Eradication Program

Meat test for your viewing pleasure;

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthre...811#Post2942811

 

[bachelorjack]

Re: 300 whisper Deer Eradication Program

Be careful.

The projectiles are EXTREMELY prone to ricochets.

I would instead suggest a 45acp or 44mag. Although a standard suppressed 10/22 does work wonders.

 

[6.5x61Super]

Re: 300 whisper Deer Eradication Program

Head Shot = ZERO runoff...

...double-lungs will kill them ..albeit akin to getting shot with a field point arrow.....bad choice


....my advice, aim for the head

 

[tansinator]

Re: 300 whisper Deer Eradication Program

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BachelorJack</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Be careful.

The projectiles are EXTREMELY prone to ricochets.

I would instead suggest a 45acp or 44mag. Although a standard suppressed 10/22 does work wonders.</div></div>

He knows a little bit on this subject!

 

[bachelorjack]

Re: 300 whisper Deer Eradication Program

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tansinator</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BachelorJack</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Be careful.

The projectiles are EXTREMELY prone to ricochets.

I would instead suggest a 45acp or 44mag. Although a standard suppressed 10/22 does work wonders.</div></div>

He knows a little bit on this subject! </div></div>

We shot a pile of critters and the sound of the projectile exiting and bouncing off the clay dirt or tree or rock and then zinging off to who know where is real. And throat closing scary when doing it in a urban setting. Which we were.

What it comes down to is the long projectiles act like a football when they hit something hard on the other side of the animal. And you want something that acts like a hackysack. And we have yet to find anything optimal. Did I mention we have shot everything out there commercially right now?

If you want one shot drops you need to take head shots. That's the only real way to anchor them and prevent runoffs.

I cannot recommend this caliber for your application in an urban setting. And we ship over 20k pieces of converted brass a day. Food for thought.

 

[Southbreeze]

Re: 300 whisper Deer Eradication Program

Bachelor Jack, did y'all ever get your hands on any of the 180grn Norma plastic points? I've been told, They're not avaliable on this side of the pond.

I've got some boys in Norway trying to source a couple thousand to hand carry home.

 

[bachelorjack]

Re: 300 whisper Deer Eradication Program

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Southbreeze</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Bachelor Jack, did y'all ever get your hands on any of the 180grn Norma plastic points? I've been told, They're not avaliable on this side of the pond.

I've got some boys in Norway trying to source a couple thousand to hand carry home. </div></div>

Nope. We didn't test anything that required importing or smuggling. Just stuff that's already out there. From modified designs, to dead soft cast lead, to lehigh monolith giant HP's---nothing did what we wanted as well as 45acp. Which was a ricochet free head shot, that instantly kills and incapacitates.

And don't get me wrong. I think the cartridge is more than capable as a subsonic deer killer given the proper projectile and shot placement. But the OP wants no run offs, subsonic and to use it in an urban setting and this just is not the way to go.

Do call SSK and speak to JD Jones. Tell him what you want to do, exactly. To include accuracy requirements and average distance to target. Let him tell you what caliber to go with.

 

[Southbreeze]

Re: 300 whisper Deer Eradication Program

Sound advice and thanks for the depth of response.

I believe you are exactly correct with the 45acp statement as well. I have a SRT Arms Camp 45 integral and believe it's the cat's ass when working in tight. True to marlin camp carbine accuracy, while good, isn't exactly precise. I've just picked up a 45 acp AR upper and sent it to Doug for his integral treatment.

OP, don't/didn't mean to hijack your thread. My apologies. I hope this helps your question as well.

Cheers,
Breeze

 

[762frmafr]

Re: 300 whisper Deer Eradication Program

If it were me, I would purchase an AWC Ultra 2 CZ bolt action, or some other integrally suppressed bolt action 22 rifle, and take head shots. Dead quiet and deadly lethal inside 100 yards.

 

[reeljob]

Re: 300 whisper Deer Eradication Program

I do appreciate all the input. I am discussing the above info with the agency. In the mean time I have been playing with what Bullets I have on the bench and I am not to impressed with the results thus far. I do not currently have the whisper in my possesion so I did this development with my .308 bolt gun and 150 Nosler BT and Sierra 125 flat base. The best results where with the polymer tip removed. Penetration was good with all loads, of course good penetration could be bad in this application. These where fired at 50 yards into a bucket filled with wet magazines and water. Most bullets stopped at the 5/8 gypsum behind the bucket just in front of my usual target stand. Here is a pict of the recovered bullets. One looks like it is out of the box except for the rifling grooves(This bullet was fired before bucket was set up and traveled through dense foam only). I did not have chrony set up for this brief back yard testing.

 

[bachelorjack]

Re: 300 whisper Deer Eradication Program

I've got some dead soft lead projectiles I can send you to play with. They are designed for subsonic work only and need to be run out of a bolt gun or single shot because the lead is so soft. The goal being they deform on impact dumping all their energy and reduce the likely hood of ricochets. They do kill like hitting stuff with an anchor, but I haven't been able to check on if they ricochet yet.

You will need at least an 8 twist to stabilize them. Let me know and I will get your info for a care package.

Link to what I'm talking about:
http://www.blackoutbrass.com/products/246gr-lead-flat-point-projectile

 

[reeljob]

Re: 300 whisper Deer Eradication Program

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BachelorJack</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've got some dead soft lead projectiles I can send you to play with. They are designed for subsonic work only and need to be run out of a bolt gun or single shot because the lead is so soft. The goal being they deform on impact dumping all their energy and reduce the likely hood of ricochets. They do kill like hitting stuff with an anchor, but I haven't been able to check on if they ricochet yet.

You will need at least an 8 twist to stabilize them. Let me know and I will get your info for a care package.

Link to what I'm talking about:
http://www.blackoutbrass.com/products/246gr-lead-flat-point-projectile </div></div>

Your PM box is full.

Barry

 

[reeljob]

Re: 300 whisper Deer Eradication Program

After further testing in this quest here are the results:

The two bullets on the left have been pictured previously in this discussion. The bullet on the far right is a 210 grain Outlaw State bullet. The two on the right have been fired thru the same test media which was a bucket of water stuffed with wet magazines. The OSB was chronographed at 998 fps out of my 20" 308 at 50 yards. The OSB weighed 209.9 grains when loaded and was recovered at 204.7 grains and did not pass thru the bucket as the other two did.
This week I will load and test this bullet in the 300 whisper on wet newspaper and if all goes well, then in the field.
Thank you to all who have PMed me, your information has been most helpful.
Barry

 

[malaga2]

Re: 300 whisper Deer Eradication Program

Hornady XTP billets over about 4 grains of Trailboss is real quiet and should help with the ricochet issue