300 WSM with Berger 230 OTM Tactical

[Brentc]

Some info for those of you that like running heavy loads in the 300 WSM, I did some experimenting today with IMR 7828SSC and the Berger 230 OTM tactical Hybrid. I was intrigued with this combo because of the downrange energy. There simply is not a .308 hunting bullet on the market that can match the energy of this bullet even if flying 100 fps faster. Not even the 210 VLD at 2850.


My rifle is a factory Winchester M70 Extreme Weather, 24" bbl, topped with a Zeiss Conquest 4.5-14x44.

Load information: I used resized and trimmed Norma brass and CCI 200's for the test. I seated the bullets right at the lands, .000 jump which ends up at 3.010" COAL. BTW they still fit in the M70 magazine.

I loaded 18 rounds ranging from at 64 - 66 grains of 7828SSC and fired 3 shot groups to determine an OCW. the weather was a little drizzly today, and I ended up losing two chrono readings, but I still feel like I got good data. Here are the results.


Load #1 64.0 grains IMR 7828SSC (Good group .35" all touching)
#1 2650 fps
#2 2624 fps
#3 -------
ES = 26 fps
Ave = 2637 fps (baseline)

Load #2 64.4 grains (Good group .55" in a cluster)
#1 2677 fps
#2 2656 fps
#3 2645 fps
ES = 32 fps
Ave = 2659 fps (+22)

Load #3 64.8 grains (scattered group 1.5")
#1 2682 fps
#2 2666 fps
#3 ------
ES = 16 fps
Ave = 2674 fps (+15)

Load #4 65.2 grains (tightening group .40" group - horizontal all touching)
#1 2688 fps
#2 2704 fps
#3 2672 fps
ES = 32 fps
Ave = 2688 fps (+14)

Load #5 65.6 grains (Tight group .30 with slight vertical)
#1 2721 fps
#2 2710 fps
#3 2682 fps
ES = 39 fps
Ave = 2704 fps (+16)

Load #6 66.0 grains (max load - slightly stiff bolt lift, not a horrible group - group was 2 shots on top of each other and the 3rd was about 1" to the left)
#1 2693 fps
#2 2688 fps
#3 2704 fps
ES = 16 fps
Ave 2695 fps (-9)

You can see the classic pressure curve leading up to the max load. It appears that the accuracy node is 65.4 or 65.5 grains. ES could improve a bit and it might with either of these charges. Overall, I think the test was a success and it opens up a bit more capability with the WSM. This bullet is about as close to wind proof as you'll find for a .30 cal and the down range energy is phenomenal. These are my results in my rifle. Load at your own risk.

 

[SWRichmond]

Re: 300 WSM with Berger 230 OTM Tactical

I am extremely interested in this, am currently using the 210VLD out to 1,000 @ about 2750fps muzzle in .300WSM (Norma brass, showing slight pressure signs). Also am going to pursue this bullet, and the 225 Hornady, in .300 Win Mag. Just ordering bullets now, no info to add at this time. I have emailed Berger for load data, will use it as a starting point and will also refer to your data above. TY.

 

[SWRichmond]

Re: 300 WSM with Berger 230 OTM Tactical

The Berger data sent by email says max of 62.3 gr IMR 7828SSC, with a velocity of 2606. I see you're "a bit" over that. My current 210VLD load uses H4350, is also a bit over their recommended max, and on a hot day I get a few sticky lifts.

I am gonna try Retumbo with the .300WM, and am thinking about RE-22 for the .300WSM. I also need to get some federal 215M primers. I use 210M's with H4350 and IMR 4831, but probably shouldn't with Retumbo.

 

[MALLARD]

Re: 300 WSM with Berger 230 OTM Tactical

what kind of chrono are you using ?

 

[Brentc]

Re: 300 WSM with Berger 230 OTM Tactical

I didn't have complete Berger data for this bullet and I saw that the Berger's data for the 210 was a very conservative 62.5 max 7828SSC, therefore I researched data manuals and calculated my starting loads. The information I based my calculations from was the Barnes 3rd edition manual using information from their 220 grain and 250 grain bullets. I loosely figured barnes bearing surface into the equation and came up with a 64.0 grain starting load. Hodgdon also shows pushing a high bearing surface 200 grain bullet with 67.5 grains of 7828.

The chronograph I was using is a Competition Electronics Prochrono. It's simple and gives good readings.

 

[ChadTRG42]

Re: 300 WSM with Berger 230 OTM Tactical

I love the heavy bullets in a magnum. We have been playing with the Hornady 225 grain BTHP out to a mile, and they are awesome!

also, if you are testing these heavy bullets a 100 yards, you may not get a true accuracy reading. I've seen they need about 200 to 300 yards to settle down to see the true picture on their accuracy potential. The one's that shot great at 100, were not the best load out at 300 yards (where I do most all my load testing) and further.

 

[Brentc]

Re: 300 WSM with Berger 230 OTM Tactical

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ChadTRG42</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I love the heavy bullets in a magnum. We have been playing with the Hornady 225 grain BTHP out to a mile, and they are awesome!

also, if you are testing these heavy bullets a 100 yards, you may not get a true accuracy reading. I've seen they need about 200 to 300 yards to settle down to see the true picture on their accuracy potential. The one's that shot great at 100, were not the best load out at 300 yards (where I do most all my load testing) and further. </div></div>

There was a definite pattern with the groups. It wasn't hard to see that this gun wanted to shoot them. I plan to run them out further next week and make the necessary tweaks to get them to shoot better. I went with a charge of 65.4 grains to test at varying distances.

Most of my load testing was to see the velocity numbers with the 230 OTM/7828SSC combo. I was guessing I could hit 2650 pretty easily and I hoped to hit 2700.

 

[SWRichmond]

Re: 300 WSM with Berger 230 OTM Tactical

Brent,

I wasn't fussing. I did the same thing, and experimented carefully just like you did. Given the incredibly wide list of variables that can affect pressure (esp. primer selection, throat design, case weight), I don't blame anyone who publishes conservative load data. We all know we're on our own when we deviate.

Santa is bringing me some of the stuff I need to start my own experiments. I am anxious to shoot the 230's in 300WM. I've still got a box of 500 of the Berger 210VLDs that I will feed to the .300WSM in matches, and those will probably finish barrel life on that gun.

The .300WM I have is actually an experiment itself. It's a Savage 110FP that I bought used for $350.00 (couldn't pass). It shot like absolute crap; 2.5" - 3" groups prone / bipod at 100 yards with handloads, even after doing the seating depth experiment. I noted all of the many things that were wrong with it as it came from the factory and I started modifying it. The short version: I have under $1000.00 in it (including new stock, the scope, mount, rings, etc) and it will now put four out of five into a half inch at 100 yards with Sierra 190's, at about 2900 fps muzzle (same loads as above...). The rifle weighs about 15#.

I absolutely hate the trigger, it is the ickiest thing imaginable, though it does seem to be wearing in a bit. Trying to stay under $1000.00 so I ain't gonna replace it (yet).

I just shot it at 800, 900, 1000 and, considering what it is and what conditions were, it did quite well at 800 (141-3X / 150) and 900 (138-2X) but not so well at 1000 (168-0X / 200). Lots of vertical became apparent at 1000, as well as very variable wind and bad light making mirage hard to read. Everyone was struggling; the vertical, though, is something I have to figure out.

Anyway, gonna start after Christmas with Retumbo and the 230's in the .300WM "Budget Long Range Tactical Rifle Project," as that is the gun I will probably use to shoot tac matches. I don't wanna shoot fast follow-up / multiple target shots in my F-class match magnum gun.

I will also try them in the .300 wsm before rebarreling (which is probably coming soon) to find a starting point. Am thinking about RE-22.

I don't have a chrono but will post what results I get.

Edit: I just ran some ballistics with the Berger 230 OTM and the 230 hybrid. OMFG. Putting this on the front burner with the 300WSM.

 

[Brentc]

Re: 300 WSM with Berger 230 OTM Tactical

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SWRichmond</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Brent,

I wasn't fussing. I did the same thing, and experimented carefully just like you did. Given the incredibly wide list of variables that can affect pressure (esp. primer selection, throat design, case weight), I don't blame anyone who publishes conservative load data. We all know we're on our own when we deviate.

Santa is bringing me some of the stuff I need to start my own experiments. I am anxious to shoot the 230's in 300WM. I've still got a box of 500 of the Berger 210VLDs that I will feed to the .300WSM in matches, and those will probably finish barrel life on that gun.

The .300WM I have is actually an experiment itself. It's a Savage 110FP that I bought used for $350.00 (couldn't pass). It shot like absolute crap; 2.5" - 3" groups prone / bipod at 100 yards with handloads, even after doing the seating depth experiment. I noted all of the many things that were wrong with it as it came from the factory and I started modifying it. The short version: I have under $1000.00 in it (including new stock, the scope, mount, rings, etc) and it will now put four out of five into a half inch at 100 yards with Sierra 190's, at about 2900 fps muzzle (same loads as above...). The rifle weighs about 15#.

I absolutely hate the trigger, it is the ickiest thing imaginable, though it does seem to be wearing in a bit. Trying to stay under $1000.00 so I ain't gonna replace it (yet).

I just shot it at 800, 900, 1000 and, considering what it is and what conditions were, it did quite well at 800 (141-3X / 150) and 900 (138-2X) but not so well at 1000 (168-0X / 200). Lots of vertical became apparent at 1000, as well as very variable wind and bad light making mirage hard to read. Everyone was struggling; the vertical, though, is something I have to figure out.

Anyway, gonna start after Christmas with Retumbo and the 230's in the .300WM "Budget Long Range Tactical Rifle Project," as that is the gun I will probably use to shoot tac matches. I don't wanna shoot fast follow-up / multiple target shots in my F-class match magnum gun.

I will also try them in the .300 wsm before rebarreling (which is probably coming soon) to find a starting point. Am thinking about RE-22.

I don't have a chrono but will post what results I get.

Edit: I just ran some ballistics with the Berger 230 OTM and the 230 hybrid. OMFG. Putting this on the front burner with the 300WSM. </div></div>

No fuss here either. I was also surprised when I ran the numbers. I had a chance to run the 65.4 load out to 570 yards. I shot a group at 100 measuring .27" to verify zero and then took a 12" gong out to 570. After verifying my drops, I fired a 3 shot group measuring 2.4" with a 1/4 value 10 mph wind. I'm happy so far. I'm curious to see how higher temps will affect pressure. It has shot extremely well between 25-50*F.

Barnes has data for RL25 in the 300 WSM with the heavies.

 

[SWRichmond]

Re: 300 WSM with Berger 230 OTM Tactical

OK started load development with the .300 WSM. Started with 230 Berger Hybrid Tactical OTM, Fed 210M primers, Winchester brass.

(also, I am somewhat embarrassed to say that I have started using a small brick bag as a rear bag. It's almost like cheating.) The following results are fired prone, from a bipod. 100 yards, half-value wind at 6pm, gusting to 9-10 mph; 38F, sunny.

First, fired control group, 210 Berger VLD with 60.0 gr H4350, Fed 210M, Norma Brass, jumping 0.015" ==> group size = 0.550"


The following are the 230 Bergers, jumping 0.025".

58.0 gr Re-22, 0.670"
58.4 gr Re-22, 0.575"
58.8 gr Re-22, 0.530"
59.3 gr Re-22, 0.700" (might have been me)
59.8 gr Re-22, 0.330", only three shots, I expected to run into pressure right about here so I only loaded three of these.
60.3 gr Re-22, 0.450", also only three rounds

This bullet showed a significant POI change from the 210VLDs. POI moved left by 2.3" at 100 yards. No evidence of excessive pressure or, IMO, even approaching max pressure in my 26" bbl 700SA. The barrel already has 1150 rounds through it.

I also started dev with the 225 Hornadys in the .300WM (budget long range tactical rifle project), Fed215M, Retumbo. Showing lots of pressure way under recommended max loads, something I've not run into before with this gun. I think I need to jump them more, I've got them seated to jump about 0.020". Primers flat and shiny. I'm in the neighborhood of 73 gr Retumbo.

 

[Brentc]

Re: 300 WSM with Berger 230 OTM Tactical

Looks good so far. Any velocity numbers?

BTW just for some perspective. The Barnes #3 manual is showing RL22 max for their 220 Solid at 65.5, and max for their 250 grain Original at 60.0. Based on my experience with the 230 my guess is that you'll hit max somewhere between 64 and 65 grains. Since the Barnes heavies are such a high bearing surface bullet, comparisons with their max loads and simple calculations seem the most appropriate in the absence of data for this bullet.

 

[SWRichmond]

Re: 300 WSM with Berger 230 OTM Tactical

I just ordered a chronograph. Velocities sometime soon (I hope).

 

[SWRichmond]

Re: 300 WSM with Berger 230 OTM Tactical

Updates:

Chronograph was a bust, will try it again when I feel like pissing myself off some more.

Beginning to try Berger 230 OTM's in .300WM and .300WSM.

<span style="font-weight: bold">300WM</span>, I am getting schooled on large powder column magnums and their sensitivity to seating depth / jump (or lack thereof). Blew out a couple of primers way below max powder charges listed. Already getting the satisfying crunch when seating the bullets. More crunch = no more blown primers but bigger groups. Changed from Retumbo to H1000 and started over. More later. I am hoping (but as for right now it's just hope) that the 230 OTM hybrids will demonstrate less sensitivity and will let me jump them a lot, like 0.100" or more.


<span style="font-weight: bold">300WSM & Re-22, Fed210M primers, seated 2.970" and jumping about 0.020", WIN brass:</span>


next trip shot:
conditions: not recorded (horrible mood, thought getting out would help, I shouldn't have gone but went anyway...)
61.5gr 1.0"
62.0gr 0.570"
62.5gr 0.680"

next trip shot:
conditions: 70F, wind calm - maybe 3mph, 6 o'clock. Sunny.

control group first as above: 0.540"
63.4gr 0.720"
63.7gr 0.800" bolt getting sticky
control group after: 0.625"

 

[amaxwell5]

Re: 300 WSM with Berger 230 OTM Tactical

Anybody know the bullet length of the otm compared to a 208 amax?

 

[dk17hmr]

Re: 300 WSM with Berger 230 OTM Tactical

I saw this bullet and didnt think I could push it fast enough in my 300wsm to make it any better than the 200gr SMK Im shooting now. But it looks like it might actually be worth trying.

 

[rusty815]

Re: 300 WSM with Berger 230 OTM Tactical

I would like to know the length of the 230 hybrid as well, might try developing a load for them.

 

[Burleyboy]

Re: 300 WSM with Berger 230 OTM Tactical

I've got a box of 225 hornady's on their way. My new 300 wsm is here and I've just started working with it. Right now I'm getting 2880 fps from my 24" brux with 208 amax's and the extreme spread is single digits. Running cci 250's, norma brass, and 62g of rl-17. I've only shot 2 groups on paper and both were right at 1" at 100 but it was really windy and I was in a hurry. Plus the bullets are factory seconds with noticeable defects.

I'll probably run the 208's but I just had to try a box of the 225's. I've heard the working BC for them is .700. I wonder if RL-17 is too fast for the 225's? I plan to try them with H1000, magnum, and 7828 but I might have to give RL-17 a try too.

Bb

 

[SWRichmond]

Re: 300 WSM with Berger 230 OTM Tactical

The Berger 230 OTMs measure 1.625" long, the Hornady 225s about 1.580". The Hornadys appear to have a longer bearing surface. As I noted a few posts above, in my 300Win Mag I ran into pressure signs with the 225 Hornadys before I expected to, though I admit I was interpolating powder charges and bullet weights.

I have just today fired some more 3 shot groups with 300 Win Mag rounds loaded with H1000, Federal 215M, WIN brass, and the Berger 230 OTMs. Note this is 300 Win Mag, not 300 WSM. I now have a Hornady seating depth measuring tool and it works really well; these are jumping 0.030". This is "Budget Long Range Tactical Rifle Project" described above and its purpose is to enable me to shoot tactical matches without burning up my LR Match gun. Doing it on the cheap, but I broke down and bought a scope level for it.

Conditions: 55F, intermittent sun and overcast, winds variable from 5 O'Clock to about 7 O'Clock, 3-12 mph gusting to 20+. Dust devils forming, debris blowing, etc etc. Groups shot prone from bipod and rear brick bag.

<span style="font-weight: bold">300 Win Mag</span>
71.5 gr cold bore shot 1" high and slightly right, other two touching
72.0 gr 0.630"
72.5 gr 0.650"
73.0 gr 0.400" (one primer leaked around the circumference a little)
73.5 gr 0.880"

Berger's supplied load data says 73.0 gr max with H1000. I will next try loading 73.0 gr and seating them different depths. Anyway, for just under $1,000.00 in a used rifle, new stock, samplelist scope, cheapo bipod off of some other thing I had, a quality +20MOA mount and cheap rings (plus reloading stuff and time of course), we have the above results. Doesn't suck.

I am shelving the .300WSM / 230 Berger OTM work. I am already well past 1000 rounds through my WSM and don't want to invest more barrel life in load development. I just opened my third 500 count box of Berger 210VLDs and will use them up in that gun.

A new barrel would be another story, though I am not sure I could appreciably improve on the 210VLDs ballistics by using the heavier bullet, <span style="font-style: italic">going slower</span>.

 

[rusty815]

Re: 300 WSM with Berger 230 OTM Tactical

Well I ran A lot of data in my ballistic calculator and was surprised when I saw the 230 hybrid with your data actually outperformed the 210 at long range, I always thought that 210 was the theoretical limit for the 300 WSM (as opposed to everyone else's theoretical limit of 180gr.), I think that if you manage to somehow squeeze an extra 50fps out of the 230 hybrid, it would make it an ideal long range round for the 300 WSM, I'm sure I'm not the only one who would like for you to continue your load development to see how hard you can push the round, its been an interesting read thus far.

 

[SWRichmond]

Re: 300 WSM with Berger 230 OTM Tactical

Agree. Not saying it's not possible. According to ballistics (not chrono) right now I am just under 2775fps with the 210VLD in my 300wsm, and am also just under "sticky bolt land." Using H4350.

With the Hybrid bullet, in theory at least, I could experiment with deeper seating depths and different powders and get close to 2700 fps, or perhaps higher. Berger's supplied data says 2700 fps max for the 230 OTM / 300 WSM. That would buy me about 5 inches less drift (than the 210VLD) in a 10mph full value wind at 1,000. Admittedly, that's a scoring ring.

I DID have a load at the upper end with the WSM that showed promise.

If I could get the damned stupid (brand new) chrono to work I'd know if I was accomplishing anything. If I could get to the range on a day when the conditions were right for using it (moon and planets aligned, light directly overhead, bullets not too big or too small, or too fast or too slow, or too much muzzle blast, "projectile too bright or shiny," "strong reflection is cast off the ground," "Try using a black marker to paint the shiny surface of the bullet black [no, they're apparently not kidding]," "Always position your chronograph with sunlight to the left, overheard, or right angles," [IOW, if you're on the equator or if your range faces east-west, our product works. Otherwise, thanks for the money.] "If you experience late afternoon or early morning light, light may be entering the chronograph from the side...," "discontinue use until better light conditions exist." People have balls selling stuff with a list of "Oh By The Way" this long.

 

[rusty815]

Re: 300 WSM with Berger 230 OTM Tactical

I'm guessing you haven't seen the commercials for anti-depression pills

Damn chronographs, thats why I dont own one, I would rather spend time shooting than fussing with the thing. I do believe that 2750 is possible with the right powder, maybe try something like Rl-22 or Ramshot magnum. I wish I had the resources to do load development right now to help you guys, my magazine has an AOL of 2.840 in. so I can load rounds almost long enough to compensate for the size of the thing. Right now I plan on doing load development for the 200gr. TTSX (now LRX), which is exactly the same length as the 230 VLD, so I should experience similar cartridge constraints, it'll at least be good prep for when I get around to testing the Berger.

 

[rusty815]

Re: 300 WSM with Berger 230 OTM Tactical

After a lot of research and planning, I have decided to give this round a shot, I'm going to develop a load for it along side the 200gr. TTSX and see what I can get. I'm going to use Re-17 for the TTSX and maybe Re-19 for the Berger, might even try Re-17 with the Berger, though I'm pretty sure its too fast. I think that I might be able to get the necessary performance out of these rounds using slightly faster burning powder than already tested, its just a hunch though.

I'll report both my findings in a new thread when I'm done.

 

[LongArm]

Re: 300 WSM with Berger 230 OTM Tactical

looks like its time to get the 300WSM out and start loading up some rounds.

 

[rusty815]

Re: 300 WSM with Berger 230 OTM Tactical

All the data on my ballistic calculator shows that if we can get this round to come out at 2750 fps, it'll be the best performing long range round for the 300WSM, beating out the 208 AMAX and 210 berger target, which were both at the top of my calculations.

I've never been excited to develop a load before, hopefully I can get a chrono and the rounds soon to start.

 

[SWRichmond]

Re: 300 WSM with Berger 230 OTM Tactical

230 OTM / 300 Win Mag results, today's trip. I decided to go longer, not shorter. Glad I did.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Note again: this is 300 Win Mag</span>. 73.0 gr H1000, Fed 215M, WIN case. This is not a recommendation, this is what I am doing and the results I am getting in my rifle.

0.005" jump: 5 shot group 0.370"
This is shot prone, bipod and rear brick bag, from 'budget long range tactical rifle project'. Thanks to Berger. This project has enabled me to achieve (what I consider to be) Champagne taste on a beer budget. Recoil, though noticeably stouter than the 180 factory hunting ammo, has not been an issue as long as I pay a bit of attention to eye relief. Next step: a swivel bipod with notched legs, leveling takes too long using the spring loaded / thumbscrew leg adjustment. I also have begun trying shooting positions (sitting, kneeling, leaning on objects) with sling support.

I have not yet demonstrated that I can push this excellent bullet fast enough in the 300WSM to make a difference from the 210 VLD. I do love the bullet, however.

 

[SWRichmond]

Re: 300 WSM with Berger 230 OTM Tactical

I just looked (again) at the Berger 215 Hybrid. If I can get it to 2750fps it will buy me 9" less horizontal drift wind at 1000 yards in a 10mph full value wind than the 210VLD at 2775, and it stays supersonic to 1600 yards. Maybe the 230 is trying a bit too hard wit the WSM.

 

[Brentc]

Re: 300 WSM with Berger 230 OTM Tactical

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rusty815</div><div class="ubbcode-body">All the data on my ballistic calculator shows that if we can get this round to come out at 2750 fps, it'll be the best performing long range round for the 300WSM, beating out the 208 AMAX and 210 berger target, which were both at the top of my calculations.

I've never been excited to develop a load before, hopefully I can get a chrono and the rounds soon to start. </div></div>

2750 should be attainable with a 230 depending on how long your barrel is. A 24" tube may have a hard time getting there.

The 230 really works great in the 300 WSM. I have since put a lot of 230's down the tube and have bumped the load to a safe 65.5 grains of 7828ssc for an even 2705 fps average and a solid 1/2 MOA or better accuracy.

I have also found that even though Berger claims these are less sensitive to jump, they still like to be up close to the lands in every rifle I shoot them from.

I also have a 210 VLD 7828 combo for the same rifle at 2850 fps. Both loads are 1/3 - 1/2 MOA beyond 300 yards.

 

[rusty815]

Re: 300 WSM with Berger 230 OTM Tactical

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Brentc</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
2750 should be attainable with a 230 depending on how long your barrel is. A 24" tube may have a hard time getting there.

The 230 really works great in the 300 WSM. I have since put a lot of 230's down the tube and have bumped the load to a safe 65.5 grains of 7828ssc for an even 2705 fps average and a solid 1/2 MOA or better accuracy.

I have also found that even though Berger claims these are less sensitive to jump, they still like to be up close to the lands in every rifle I shoot them from.

I also have a 210 VLD 7828 combo for the same rifle at 2850 fps. Both loads are 1/3 - 1/2 MOA beyond 300 yards. </div></div>

I have the load data from Berger, and surprising 7828 is one of the lowest on their chart, AA Mag Pro achieves the best velocity, but the representative recommended RE-22 for the best combination of accuracy and velocity, on the load data provided RE-22 is listed at over 2700fps loaded out to SAAMI specs (2.830), while 7828 was listed as 2620fps at SAAMI specs. Judging from the load data that you have compiled, a similar load (not in terms of grains, I'm talking about the max load) should achieve about 50-80fps more than 7828 while still maintaining great accuracy, theoretically of course. I have loaded a few test rounds with RE-19 for the 230's that should bring me close to my goal of 2750 with a 24" barrel, I'll be heading to the range soon and will report my findings along with chrono data when the day comes. I'll also try picking up RE-22 as soon as possible to test out as well.

 

[Brentc]

Re: 300 WSM with Berger 230 OTM Tactical

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rusty815</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Brentc</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
2750 should be attainable with a 230 depending on how long your barrel is. A 24" tube may have a hard time getting there.

The 230 really works great in the 300 WSM. I have since put a lot of 230's down the tube and have bumped the load to a safe 65.5 grains of 7828ssc for an even 2705 fps average and a solid 1/2 MOA or better accuracy.

I have also found that even though Berger claims these are less sensitive to jump, they still like to be up close to the lands in every rifle I shoot them from.

I also have a 210 VLD 7828 combo for the same rifle at 2850 fps. Both loads are 1/3 - 1/2 MOA beyond 300 yards. </div></div>

I have the load data from Berger, and surprising 7828 is one of the lowest on their chart, AA Mag Pro achieves the best velocity, but the representative recommended RE-22 for the best combination of accuracy and velocity, on the load data provided RE-22 is listed at over 2700fps loaded out to SAAMI specs (2.830), while 7828 was listed as 2620fps at SAAMI specs. Judging from the load data that you have compiled, a similar load (not in terms of grains, I'm talking about the max load) should achieve about 50-80fps more than 7828 while still maintaining great accuracy, theoretically of course. I have loaded a few test rounds with RE-19 for the 230's that should bring me close to my goal of 2750 with a 24" barrel, I'll be heading to the range soon and will report my findings along with chrono data when the day comes. I'll also try picking up RE-22 as soon as possible to test out as well. </div></div>

7828 is low on their chart because they aren't pushing it to it's capabilities like they are with RL22 and Magpro. Hornady and Barnes data has been a better representation of actual performance than Berger in regards to actual expected performance with 7828.

I'm really curious to see how RL19 does in this application and if it actually gets that last 50 fps before pressure signs. RL22 maybe, but I have my doubts with 19. I think 19 is a bit too fast. I may be surprised though.

 

[blakejw]

Re: 300 WSM with Berger 230 OTM Tactical

I am thinking about trying the 230 Otm tactical hybrid, but my mag only accepts an OAL of 3". do y'all know what this will do if i need to seed the bullet to meet this? I ask because Brentc has his OAL of 3.3, i am newer to this so any advice would be great

 

[rusty815]

Re: 300 WSM with Berger 230 OTM Tactical

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: blakejw</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am thinking about trying the 230 Otm tactical hybrid, but my mag only accepts an OAL of 3". do y'all know what this will do if i need to seed the bullet to meet this? I ask because Brentc has his OAL of 3.3, i am newer to this so any advice would be great </div></div>

It means your max load will be much lower than his.

I have shot the 230's a few times now and have a load with 61.4gr. of RL-19 at just about 2660fps. My rounds were loaded to mag length at 2.975", I'm waiting until I get some RL-22 to keep trying the Bergers since RL-22 is better suited for this round than RL-19.

 

[blakejw]

Re: 300 WSM with Berger 230 OTM Tactical

Ok great, I appreciate it. Does the RL 22 perform a whole lot different than the 7828ssc? Or is it pretty similar?

 

[rusty815]

Re: 300 WSM with Berger 230 OTM Tactical

Their burn rates are similar, but I believe RL-22 provides more velocity than 7828, but RL-22 is known for not being very temp stable, I live in cali so its usually always warm here, I'm not worried about temp stability, but that may be an issue for some.

 

[Brentc]

Re: 300 WSM with Berger 230 OTM Tactical

Blake, sorry the 3.310 OAL was a typo. I fixed it. it's actually 3.010" and your magazine length will work fine.

 

[hillian]

Re: 300 WSM with Berger 230 OTM Tactical

Hello,

I've been working with 230gr OTM in my 300WSM since November 2011. I have a 27" bbl and "load long," my COAL is 3.175" and is jumping .030." I use WLRM primers.

(Before 230gr OTM I shot 210gr VLD's. I used H100V and got 2775fps.)

I've worked with several powders: H4831SC, Winchester Supreme 780, VV N560, VV N165, H1000, Retumbo. Up until late June of this year I was sold on VV N165: 66.5gr for 2725fps. I'd be happy to PM more data if anyone is interested.

In July it started to get real hot in Iowa. I ran into significant pressure problems with N165 at 66.5gr. Above 100F with a good sun load on the ammo I could only use 63.2gr for 2680fps.

I reviewed past load data and decided to focus on H1000 and Retumbo. During testing the ambient air temp was 107F. Sitting in the sun cases got hot enough that I couldn't hold them for very long. With ladder tests Retumbo had a wider precision node and shot better than H1000. In those temps 66.5gr of Retumbo was safe.

At 90F the chronograph suggested 66.5gr of Retumbo was about 2650fps. With ambient air temps at 78F I tested at 750yds and the actual measured drop indicated 2665fps. I had a nice 3.2" 5 shot group. I don't care that I've lost some fps. This is a safe load and is easy to shoot. I'm happy.

If a shooter isn't opposed to tuning loads for temp changes, Supreme 780 was interesting. I think 2730-50 would be possible in normal conditions if the chamber allowed the powder capacity.

Andy

 

[rusty815]

Re: 300 WSM with Berger 230 OTM Tactical

I'm getting a bit over 2600fps with 62.2gr. of RL-19 with my 24" barrel. I plan on testing it with RL-17, I believe I can hit 2700 with RL-17 without pressure sign's, just need to go get some more RL-17 to do it.

I use CCI LRM primers, Win Brass and load them to 2.950OAL, which I am able to mag feed from Alpha magazines. My barrel length is 24".

I used to fire them with 61.2gr. of RL-19 and a smidge under 2600fps, but I like the added velocity of an extra grain, and it didn't open up my groups much.

 

[Malium]

Re: 300 WSM with Berger 230 OTM Tactical

With my 300 WSM, I tried RL-17, RL-22, H4350, H4831sc, H1000 pushing the 210 Berger VLD and 230 Berger Hybrids.

RL-17 gave very good velocities, but was temperature sensitive

RL-22 worked decently, but was also temperature sensitive

H4350 worked well, but ran into pressure signs before it was even close to the velocities of H4831sc.

H4831sc was the standout performer (for me) with the 230 Berger Hybrids. Doing a pressure workup (new lot of powder), 8 rounds chewed a single ragged clockwise ½" circle into a 100 yard target as the powder charge was increased. Rounds hit 12 o'clock, 2 o'clock, 4 o'clock, etc., all around a single point on the target. Worked great on targets at 1000 yards, worked great hunting as well.

230 Berger Hybrids, Federal 210M primers, H4831sc powder, Norma 300 WSM brass.

 

[jakel]

Re: 300 WSM with Berger 230 OTM Tactical

tag

 

[hillian]

Re: 300 WSM with Berger 230 OTM Tactical

Malium, can you share what velocity you think 4831 is yielding in your configuration? I thought 62gr yielded about 2650 @45F. It didn't give good case fill in my configuration so I didn't use it.

I've put quite a bit of effort into loading long. I'm still trying to figure out if it has been worth the effort. Thanks for any info you can share.

 

[rusty815]

Re: 300 WSM with Berger 230 OTM Tactical

I don't thing 4831 yields enough velocity to be worthwhile as an ELR round. Reloader 19 yeilds better velocity, and with good accuracy, but its not the best. I'm more interested in RL-22, RL-17 and Win Supreme 780 velocities.

 

[Saracen]

Some info for those of you that like running heavy loads in the 300 WSM, I did some experimenting today with IMR 7828SSC and the Berger 230 OTM tactical Hybrid. I was intrigued with this combo because of the downrange energy. There simply is not a .308 hunting bullet on the market that can match the energy of this bullet even if flying 100 fps faster. Not even the 210 VLD at 2850.


My rifle is a factory Winchester M70 Extreme Weather, 24" bbl, topped with a Zeiss Conquest 4.5-14x44.

Load information: I used resized and trimmed Norma brass and CCI 200's for the test. I seated the bullets right at the lands, .000 jump which ends up at 3.010" COAL. BTW they still fit in the M70 magazine.

I loaded 18 rounds ranging from at 64 - 66 grains of 7828SSC and fired 3 shot groups to determine an OCW. the weather was a little drizzly today, and I ended up losing two chrono readings, but I still feel like I got good data. Here are the results.


Load #1 64.0 grains IMR 7828SSC (Good group .35" all touching)
#1 2650 fps
#2 2624 fps
#3 -------
ES = 26 fps
Ave = 2637 fps (baseline)

Load #2 64.4 grains (Good group .55" in a cluster)
#1 2677 fps
#2 2656 fps
#3 2645 fps
ES = 32 fps
Ave = 2659 fps (+22)

Load #3 64.8 grains (scattered group 1.5")
#1 2682 fps
#2 2666 fps
#3 ------
ES = 16 fps
Ave = 2674 fps (+15)

Load #4 65.2 grains (tightening group .40" group - horizontal all touching)
#1 2688 fps
#2 2704 fps
#3 2672 fps
ES = 32 fps
Ave = 2688 fps (+14)

Load #5 65.6 grains (Tight group .30 with slight vertical)
#1 2721 fps
#2 2710 fps
#3 2682 fps
ES = 39 fps
Ave = 2704 fps (+16)

Load #6 66.0 grains (max load - slightly stiff bolt lift, not a horrible group - group was 2 shots on top of each other and the 3rd was about 1" to the left)
#1 2693 fps
#2 2688 fps
#3 2704 fps
ES = 16 fps
Ave 2695 fps (-9)

You can see the classic pressure curve leading up to the max load. It appears that the accuracy node is 65.4 or 65.5 grains. ES could improve a bit and it might with either of these charges. Overall, I think the test was a success and it opens up a bit more capability with the WSM. This bullet is about as close to wind proof as you'll find for a .30 cal and the down range energy is phenomenal. These are my results in my rifle. Load at your own risk.

Excellent stuff, but I'd certainly go with a 215M Primer, preferably by Federal.