300wm as my first bolt action gun?

[dombeyblue]

Hello good people,

I can't decide which caliber to go for my first long-range precision bolt action rifle. Unfortunately, I can't buy more rifles, so I must choose carefully for years ahead. I won't be competing, I just want to shoot for fun but I love challenges in terms of how accurately can I shoot and how far. At first 6.5 Creedmoor looked like a perfect caliber...not too expensive, flat, and very accurate...but since I am shooting for fun and not that often, I think I want something with a bigger recoil (for the experience). So I found 300 Win Mag as an option + I will have the chance to go shoot on long distances and I worry 6.5 is not going to be enough, that 300wm has a longer range..but then again I worry 300wm is not that accurate...

Can you maybe help me with your experiences what would be a better caliber if you have to pick one...shooting primarily for fun at long distances and accurately?

Thanks for everything!

 

[The D]

If you can’t buy more rifles, buy or build something that you can easily replace the barrel on. This way you can start with something more manageable(like the creedmoor) and not develop bad habits. Then all you need to do is swap barrels once you get comfortable and/or grow out of that. And the big brane move will be buying/building something that has replaceable bolt heads or entire bolts. This opens you up to dozens more options

fyi: I talk about the above firearm Lego scenario all the time. You’ll also get people recommending separate rifles for separation situations. Nobody is “right” or “wrong”. You just need to make your own decision based on as much info as possible

 

[redneckbmxer24]

You’ll shoot a 6.5 Creedmoor more because of ammo costs and lower recoil and become a better shooter. Unless you’re regularly shooting behind 1200 yards there’s really no reason to run a magnum. Getting beat up by recoil doesn’t enhance the experience.

 

[acudaowner]

I think depending on where your going to have in your area to shoot it it may not be the best caliber . that's repetitively a lot of hard to get powder per shot + magnum primers that's a lot of gun to only shoot 100 yards . It's your money spend it however you want to . best of luck send pics .

 

[nn8734]

Hello good people,

but then again I worry that i wont be precise or accurate with a 300wm

Fixed it. Magnums expose even the slightest weaknesses in your fundamentals and not generally recommended as a first bolt gun. Plus your bbl life is between 1000-1500 or so with SS cut-rifled or button rifled barrels.

How far do you plan on typically shooting?

If 800m or less, either .308 or something that takes a 6.5mm bullet (creedmoor, 6.5x47 lapua, 260 Remington, etc). A well built .308 running something like a 169smk will get you to 1000m comfortably (assuming your skill level is commensurate) and last appx 5000 round’s compared to between 2500-3000 for a 6.5 class cartridge. Something to think over…

 

[K2e2vin]

I have a Tikka with magnum action that I just swap the barrels on. Currently shooting 6.5PRC; Norma GT that's about $1.25/rd right now...averaging .5MOA with a take-off Superlite barrel. I also have a 300WSM and 7RM barrel; debated going 300WM but will be going 7PRC in the future.

With that said, if you're looking for trigger time, stick with the 6.5CM. It'll reach out relatively far(it's common at the range here that goes out to 1000yd), cheaper and more pleasant to shoot. I think I saw Walmart had a whole bottom-shelf filled with 6.5CM so it's definitely easy to find; right next to it's older brother the .308Win(which is even cheaper to shoot). My brother's first rifle is a lightweight Savage 110 in 300WM....I think he's only shot it twice at most but that was just intended for hunting. No sense in having all that umph if you can't put it on target.

 

[Obi-WanKannoli]

I'm a magnums or bust kind of guy, and I will tell you if you're just looking to punch paper and make steel ring go with something like the good old 308 or a 6.5 creedmoor. Cheap off the shelf ammo everywhere, good barrel life, and you can shoot it all day.

 

[Robert4]

The blast and recoil of a 300 mag will likely get old pretty quick. At least the bolt head will work with other cartridges like a 6.5 or 7 PRC.

 

[pineoak]

If you can’t buy more rifles, buy or build something that you can easily replace the barrel on. This way you can start with something more manageable(like the creedmoor) and not develop bad habits. Then all you need to do is swap barrels once you get comfortable and/or grow out of that. And the big brane move will be buying/building something that has replaceable bolt heads or entire bolts. This opens you up to dozens more options

fyi: I talk about the above firearm Lego scenario all the time. You’ll also get people recommending separate rifles for separation situations. Nobody is “right” or “wrong”. You just need to make your own decision based on as much info as possible

+1

Options. They are good.

Research into the custom actions available like Zermatt TL3 or Origin, Impact Precision, Lone Peak Fuzion, etc.

I'm a fan of new shooters to start with a cheaper but high quality option like Tikka CTR, but in your case, I'd definitely spend a bit more up front and get a custom action (they're called that but they're all mass produced CNC machined metal Legos), quality trigger, and the best quality barrel $ can buy.

If you have lots of $, Accuracy International makes some nice guns with easy swap barrels. (Terminus Zeus has easy barrel swap as well, but I've never touched one)

If you have access to shoot regularly at 800+ yards, I'd recommend 6.5CM.

If you only have access to 800 or under, I'd recommend .308 (longer barrel life, easier to find factory ammo)

Magnums stop being fun earlier as your barrel heats up quicker, and your shoulder gets beat up. Maybe after a 6.5 barrel or two, but if it's your first rifle, I'd skip the magnums.

 

[Chickentoast]

In 30 cal, I have 308's, a 300 WM, and 300 RUM's. WM is a nice balance with 70 grains of powder and a mile is no problem with a good throat and 220 LRHT's or even 208 eld-m's. 308 is great out to 1K, and again, with a long throat, 208's will shoot inside a Creed with 147's. While I don't have one, I always thought 284 Win strikes a great balance of BC, capacity/heat... as does 7 SAUM, and a 300 WSM in a Med action is also no slouch. On the wildcat side, check out the Shermans, a 7mm or 300 SS would also be a nice all-rounder.

 

[Obi-WanKannoli]

If you are dead set on a 30 cal magnum and are new to them, I'd reach for a 300 PRC with all of its improvements over the 300 wm. Not worth upgrading if you already have the winmag, but if you're starting fresh I'll take the 300 PRC.

 

[Magixx]

Given that you want to shoot for fun and at longer distances, the .300 Win Mag is an excellent choice. It has great penetration capabilities and is known to be an accurate shooter. It also has great recoil, which will give you the experience you are looking for. At the same time, the .6.5 Creedmoor is known to be an incredibly accurate and flat-shooting cartridge. It is perfect for longer-range applications, although its lower velocity, compared to the .300 Win Mag, may limit its effectiveness at very long distances. Ultimately, the decision here is yours to make, based on what exactly you are looking for.

 

[Supersubes]

The 300 wm would be a terrible choice. Its a perfectly accurate cartridge, and yet you’ll have worse results with it day in and day out compared to the creed, for a number of reasons. Its a classic mistake for new long range shooters to go for the magnum first.

 

[kthomas]

Hard no on a magnum .30 cal.

Get a 6.5 Creedmoor.

- Lots of quality rifle options
- Plenty of quality factory ammunition available
- Recoil is light enough to shoot all day, but enough to reward good fundamentals
- Decent barrel life
- Ammunition is relatively reasonable in price, especially in comparison to a magnum

 

[Hawk in WY]

Hard no on a magnum .30 cal.

Get a 6.5 Creedmoor.

- Lots of quality rifle options
- Plenty of quality factory ammunition available
- Recoil is light enough to shoot all day, but enough to reward good fundamentals
- Decent barrel life
- Ammunition is relatively reasonable in price, especially in comparison to a magnum

Good advice here particularly on the hard no on a magnum 30 cal for a rifle to learn on.

In fact, I very tempted to recommend a .223.

All of the above benefits plus longer barrel life and ammunition from the cheapest for learning to heavy bullets that will reach out just as far as the .308. You will need to learn to read wind eventually. Best way to do that is with the good old .22 lr, but the .223 is close behind.

Good luck.

 

[DocRDS]

I once bought a 300 WM as a first rifle...AND IT WAS ON SALE!

while I love that rifle, it was not a good choice. A lot of people associate magnums and long range, 6 and 6.5 Creedmore can get you to a mile or more.

I've shot .243 to 1000, no issues.

Magnums recoil HARD.
Magnums cost $$ Ammo and Barrels

It's not that 'you aren't ready', it's that unless you are moose hunting or bear hunting a 6.5 is the same at less cost and less recoil. We overgun the heck outta everything.

I like the idea of a 223 as well. We underestimate what those "little" cals can do. There was an ELR match That shot to 2500 yards IIRC, (at least 2000), one of the too 10 used a 6 creed.

 

[dombeyblue]

Thanks for all the help!

I decided to go with 6.5 Creedmoor as my first gun caliber and I will be building my own gun so I can swap barrels in the future easy.

Chassis: MDT

Barrel: I am in Europe so its hard to get things from the US...so I heard a lot of good things about Lothar Walther barrels (made in Germany, close to me, so ordering one is no problem and they have a wide variety of barrels.)

Action: didn't do any research on actions...I only know most pros use Defiance and Surgeon, but i don't know the availability in my country

 

[davsco]

Barrel: I am in Europe so its hard to get things from the US...so I heard a lot of good things about Lothar Walther barrels (made in Germany, close to me, so ordering one is no problem and they have a wide variety of barrels.)

i've heard of them but know nothing about them. if you want to easily be able to replace barrels, yourself without a gunsmith, you prob want to look for a "shouldered prefit" barrel. it will mate with a specific action/brand so you'll want to figure out your action before you pull the trigger on a barrel.

look on proofresearch.com and carbonsixllc.com (and bartlein and others) and you'll see some of the brands/models/actions that they'll typically mate with. maybe walther also makes prefits for various actions.

if you're ok having/paying a gunsmith to put it all together, then you can pretty much mix and match but check with him first as not everything works together.

 

[The D]

Thanks for all the help!

I decided to go with 6.5 Creedmoor as my first gun caliber and I will be building my own gun so I can swap barrels in the future easy.

Chassis: MDT

Barrel: I am in Europe so its hard to get things from the US...so I heard a lot of good things about Lothar Walther barrels (made in Germany, close to me, so ordering one is no problem and they have a wide variety of barrels.)

Action: didn't do any research on actions...I only know most pros use Defiance and Surgeon, but i don't know the availability in my country

Depending on availability and how much flexibility you want, look for something that has replaceable bolt heads and you can eventually shoot magnum cartridges as well from the same gun.

 

[spife7980]

What country? That’ll influence some of what recommendations are even possible

 

[perttime]

Looks like gunsmiths who build rifles often have a variety of barrels available. For example, a company in my corner of Europe offers Lothar Walther (DE), Peurala (FIN) and Shilen (USA). https://ensiofirearms.com/2019/05/31/piipunvaihto/

 

[Greg Langelius *]

I figure that if the guy has a semi-death wish about Magnum recoil, let him learn about it the hard way. I'm pretty sure it's a lesson he will never forget.

In addition to lingering muscle/frame soreness after range sessions, there's the added expense, assuming one can even find the 300 Mag ammunition.

Firm recoil means accelerated fatigue, which degrades accuracy fast, and develops a gradual aversion to the kind of extended practice that is essential to developing reliable accuracy skills. If you develop a lingering injury from some completely unrelated activity, the 300 and you would likely have a love/hate relationship.

Consider also that selling the rifle will be harder; a big portion of the shooting community has already learned the above issues, and won't even give the rifle a second look.

I was going to suggest a .22LR for extended practice; but some years ago I realized that .223 was a lot more available, and had a lot more distance capability. I have shot it in competition at 600yd, and it goes further than that. There's also the question of whether the .223/5.56 is legal in your country, since it is a very common military cartridge.

I fired the 300 magnum on an occasion, and immediately recognized it was more gun than I could ever begin to love. Best advice I can give; go out and shoot one for an afternoon before you make an offer on one, and wait a few days before making it.

Greg

 

[Chickentoast]

Weird, doesn't affect me that way - 22lr, zero recoil. 223, almost the same, basically no recoil. 300 RUM / Winmag / or even hot 308 - not much difference to me, all have recoil, all cause fatigue at about the same rate. 12 ga high brass 3" or 3.5", much more recoil, much quicker fatigue for me - also think the fatigue builds faster due to shooting offhand. But centerfires, once into a hot 6.5 or a small 30 cal, seems roughly equivalent with regard to fatigue for me.

 

[Texaslongshot]

Good advice here particularly on the hard no on a magnum 30 cal for a rifle to learn on.

In fact, I very tempted to recommend a .223.

All of the above benefits plus longer barrel life and ammunition from the cheapest for learning to heavy bullets that will reach out just as far as the .308. You will need to learn to read wind eventually. Best way to do that is with the good old .22 lr, but the .223 is close behind.

Good luck.

This seems like potentially terrible advice to me. The guy said he can't own very many guns and wants to have fun shooting at long range.

You claim "heavy bullets that will reach out just as far as the .308" I don't know what you mean by reach just as far and this guy didn't mention specific distances but i just can't imagine a .223 is gonna be very much fun from 600-1000 with very much wind. Also it gets really hard to spot misses or even hits with a .223 at those far distance.

The .308 or 6.5 seem like insanely getter choices. I don't under stand any temptation to recommend a .223 given the parameters given

 

[Hawk in WY]

He also mentioned wanting to learn.

I don’t disagree with the 6.5 CM choice, but a .223 is an insanely better choice for learning to shoot than 300 WM to use your your choice of words.

70 to 90 grain .223 bullets will definitely run with a .308 to 1,000 yards, cost less, and are a great round for learning to read wind.

Amateurs learn to shoot small groups. Professionals learn to read wind.

It’s true that it is harder to spot hits from 600 to 1,000 yards, but no one should learn to shoot starting at 600 yards.

So I’m still tempted to recommend .223, but won’t.

 

[jcw001]

I own a 300WM and absolutely love it. It's a great gun that is ridiculously accurate and with the right brake, the recoil is minimal. Now, if all you want to do is shoot small bullets all day at 100m, then a 6.5 will work well.

 

[Sig Marine]

Personally, I’d try to obtain a LONG ACTION Bighorn Origin or TL-3. The advantage of the Bighorn is the ability to change bolt-heads and swap barrels using your existing stock and scope. They were also one of the first actions made to such precise machining that pre-fit barrels could be ordered and installed by the user.

I also agree with what most above have said, start out with a standard bolt face and shoot the 6.5 Creedmoor and then, at a later date, order a magnum bolt-head and swap out the barrel for a WinMag or PRC to scratch your magnum itch.

 

[Riverlife87]

308 for the fun factor, great trainer. And you can push it pretty far. Always a good challenge, cheap also