300wm VS 338lm accuracy at ELR

[archad]

I'am a big .300 Win Mag fan. Yesterday I was shooting one my .300 Win Mags at 1400 yards with little 190 SMK. I have yet to try 230 Bergers I saw some at LGS tonite.

.300 Win Mag 1400 yards Hells Canyon - YouTube

 

[Rotortuner]

I love my TRG 22 so much , i wanted to get a 42. Once I did the research the 300WM just made sense. out to 1500yds almost the same as 338 and WAY cheaper to shoot. The 208 Amax's are downright reasonable in price.

CJG

 

[Glacier 10x]

Maybe this will help show differences in power and range. 230 Berger pushed to extreme vs a moderately loaded 300 Berger hybrid

Let's reverse this and try the 300 Berger pushed to the extreme and the 230 Berger pushed moderately. Seems a little unfair to shoot the big bore modestly and push the smaller bore hard. Or better yet, shoot them both out of a 26" bbl pushed to about the same level for comparison.

 

[Aimsmall55]

Let's reverse this and try the 300 Berger pushed to the extreme and the 230 Berger pushed moderately. Seems a little unfair to shoot the big bore modestly and push the smaller bore hard. Or better yet, shoot them both out of a 26" bbl pushed to about the same level for comparison.

The whole point of that was to show the .300 mags capability with a 230 Berger ,a REALLY long barrel, and a lot of freebore. It was not meant to degrade the .338. But I can't spend the $$$ it takes to shoot the .338 lapua. Fuck, 300$ dollars for brass... No thank you. I had a .338, and sold it because it was so expensive to shoot. That's when I decided to get a .300 built that would be good to 2,000 yards. It is FAIR in the context of which it was posted

 

[mouse07410]

The whole point of that was to show the .300 mags capability with a 230 Berger ,a REALLY long barrel, and a lot of freebore. It was not meant to degrade the .338. But I can't spend the $$$ it takes to shoot the .338 Lapua. Fuck, 300$ dollars for brass... No thank you. I had a .338, and sold it because it was so expensive to shoot. That's when I decided to get a .300 built that would be good to 2,000 yards. It is FAIR in the context of which it was posted

I don't think it was fair. To be completely fair you need to include expected barrel life and number or rounds in your comparison.

E.g., $300 for brass - how many rounds/reloads do you get from it? For both 338 LM and 300 WM? After how many rounds will you have to replace the barrel for each caliber (the re-barreling cost would be the same, I'd say)?

 

[Blacktical]

I don't think it was fair. To be completely fair you need to include expected barrel life and number or rounds in your comparison.

E.g., $300 for brass - how many rounds/reloads do you get from it? For both 338 LM and 300 WM? After how many rounds will you have to replace the barrel for each caliber (the re-barreling cost would be the same, I'd say)?

Considering that both calibers are magnums they're both going to be hard on barrel life.

I've read and experienced things all over the board on brass life based on the manufacturer - I shoot a Lapua and typically get 8-10 reloads out of my (Lapua) brass but anneal after reloads 4 or 5...

Rebarreling would be a interesting and tough factor to account for due to the fact that if you want to go custom, OEM, etc. it affects the cost.

Bottom line is the .300WM is a great round and the .338 is as well. For the extremist that doesn't want to push load limits to the extreme but wants the absolute "best" without going to a .408 Cheytac or something, the .338 is the obvious choice. If not, and you'd like to keep a few more pennies in your pocket, then grab the .300WM and don't worry about the few bits of performance lost to a .338.

 

[timelinex]

I guess at the end of the day, I'm still not seeing how 300wm is that much cheaper... It sure is cheaper when you talk about buying Hornady from the 300 while burgers for the 338, but that's not a fiat comparison. My 1.25 cost is the best of the best components. You can definitely get it to a bit under a dollar each if you start buying 'regular' components instead of premium and in bulk to null the shipping costs.

However keep in kind the comparison between the two calibers where they were relatively close, was with the best 300 components (berger) and a barrel burner load.

 

[mouse07410]

Considering that both calibers are magnums they're both going to be hard on barrel life.

Certainly - except that 300WM load has to be a real barrel-burner to offer performance comparable to 338, while 338LM load can be a decent "economy" level .

The original poster claimed that 300WM would offer comparable performance for much cheaper price than 338LM. I challenged that claim, pointing out that to have that performance with 300WM round one would wear out barrels much more rapidly.

I've read and experienced things all over the board on brass life based on the manufacturer - I shoot a Lapua and typically get 8-10 reloads out of my (Lapua) brass but anneal after reloads 4 or 5...

Probably both 300WM and 338LM would be comparable here, assuming comparable degree of "pushing" the load (either both "moderate", or both "extreme")?

Also, would you expect longer brass life if you annealed more often (say, every 2nd or 3rd reload)? Also, do you do FL sizing on your brass?

Rebarreling would be a interesting and tough factor to account for due to the fact that if you want to go custom, OEM, etc. it affects the cost.

It would be fair to assume the same level of expense - i.e., either both OEM, or both custom...

Bottom line is the .300WM is a great round and the .338 is as well. For the extremist that doesn't want to push load limits to the extreme but wants the absolute "best" without going to a .408 Cheytac or something, the .338 is the obvious choice. If not, and you'd like to keep a few more pennies in your pocket, then grab the .300WM and don't worry about the few bits of performance lost to a .338.

Sure. But I've been told (don't have direct experience) that 300WM burns barrels quicker than 338LM, with comparable loads (pushed to the same degree within the respective caliber capability).

I guess at the end of the day, I'm still not seeing how 300wm is that much cheaper... It sure is cheaper when you talk about buying Hornady from the 300 while burgers for the 338, but that's not a fiat comparison. My 1.25 cost is the best of the best components. You can definitely get it to a bit under a dollar each if you start buying 'regular' components instead of premium and in bulk to null the shipping costs.

However keep in kind the comparison between the two calibers where they were relatively close, was with the best 300 components (berger) and a barrel burner load.

This was my impression too.

 

[Blacktical]

Certainly - except that 300WM load has to be a real barrel-burner to offer performance comparable to 338, while 338LM load can be a decent "economy" level .

Hadn't considered a "economy" 338LM load.

The original poster claimed that 300WM would offer comparable performance for much cheaper price than 338LM. I challenged that claim, pointing out that to have that performance with 300WM round one would wear out barrels much more rapidly.

I'd have to agree with you here, 300WM is going to be a bigger barrel burner at the loads that push the round to 338LM performance levels.

Probably both 300WM and 338LM would be comparable here, assuming comparable degree of "pushing" the load (either both "moderate", or both "extreme")?

Also, would you expect longer brass life if you annealed more often (say, every 2nd or 3rd reload)? Also, do you do FL sizing on your brass?

The re-barreling cost was just another factor I wanted to toss out there for the groups consideration as I'm not familiar with 300WM all too much since I've never owned one.

I don't really feel the need to anneal my brass after every 2nd or 3rd reload but suppose I could give it a shot to see if anything changes by way of brass longevity. I do do FL sizing on my brass assuming it's needed.

It would be fair to assume the same level of expense - i.e., either both OEM, or both custom...


Sure. But I've been told (don't have direct experience) that 300WM burns barrels quicker than 338LM, with comparable loads (pushed to the same degree within the respective caliber capability).

Again, in the same boat as you here, no experience with 300WM myself just reading. Hopefully someone with a 300WM and a 338LM can chime in and confirm or deny our speculations.

 

[briang7511]

The barrel for one thing. Broughtons are known for higher speed. Plus the 30" 's. not sure what the bearing surface is. But I'm running them with Retumbo And the SHOOT

What s the twist rate of the barrels everyone is using in their 300wm with these heavy bullets?

 

[bhart89]

1/10 for what I've seen.

 

[timelinex]

The original poster claimed that 300WM would offer comparable performance for much cheaper price than 338LM. I challenged that claim, pointing out that to have that performance with 300WM round one would wear out barrels much more rapidly.

You got the wrong guy! Haha. I just said I had a discussion with someone about this and I thought he was WRONG about the 300 being as good.

I think at the end of the day, you just have to compare apple to apples. If your talking about a custom 30" barrel on the 300 then you would have to compare it to the equivalent barrel 338. If you are talking about improved wildcats of the 300,well there are plenty of those for the 338 as well.

The equipment between the two are gonna be almost the same costs, for equivalent quality. So far it looks like the components of equal quality are similar in price as well, with a slight edge to 300wm.

So at the end of the day you are comparing BC of the bullets and the 338 will always win.

Obviously every job has the right tool and the 300 has its place then. I take my 308 when I'm shooting at 500 yards, not my 338. If you only shoot 1400 yards or less, maybe the savings on the 300 make it a great alternative. But when we are talking LR, I'm not convinced that the 300 is a close substitute.

 

[mouse07410]

You got the wrong guy! Haha. I just said I had a discussion with someone about this and I thought he was WRONG about the 300 being as good.

What on earth gave you an idea that I was referring to you as the original poster?

I quoted your opinion that 300WM would not be much cheaper, which I agree with.

I think at the end of the day, you just have to compare apple to apples. If your talking about a custom 30" barrel on the 300 then you would have to compare it to the equivalent barrel 338. If you are talking about improved wildcats of the 300,well there are plenty of those for the 338 as well.

The equipment between the two are gonna be almost the same costs, for equivalent quality. So far it looks like the components of equal quality are similar in price as well, with a slight edge to 300wm.

So at the end of the day you are comparing BC of the bullets and the 338 will always win.

Precisely.

 

[mouse07410]

Hadn't considered a "economy" 338LM load.

Well, an "economy" load is one that is not "extreme".

The re-barreling cost was just another factor I wanted to toss out there for the groups consideration as I'm not familiar with 300WM all too much since I've never owned one.

I'd imagine that the labor efforts & costs would be the same regardless of the caliber (e.g., cutting a crown is cutting a crown, difference in 0.38" would hardly make a difference), and barrel blanks cost comparably the same (assuming same quality, same manufacturer, etc).

I don't really feel the need to anneal my brass after every 2nd or 3rd reload but suppose I could give it a shot to see if anything changes by way of brass longevity. I do do FL sizing on my brass assuming it's needed.

People more experienced than I am say that reloads for bolt guns have longer brass life when FL resizing is done as rarely as possible, doing neck sizing and shoulder bumping instead. And I'd be eager to hear how annealing on every 3rd reload affects your brass life.

 

[timelinex]

What on earth gave you an idea that I was referring to you as the original poster?

Because I am the original poster in this thread......

 

[mouse07410]

Because I am the original poster in this thread......

Priceless!!


Mouse
NRA Life Member Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk - now Free

 

[MMH]

Tag - great thread!

 

[Alpine 338]

I have and shoot both 300WM and 338LM. I shoot my 300WM much more than the 338LM, even though I have the time and place to shoot out to 2070-yards.

I bought a TRG in 338LM way before I ever imagined owning a 300WM. The 338LM is a fabulous cartridge, and very accurate. It does push you around some when shooting it, and almost prefer shooting it over a 300WM with the 230-gr Bergers as they push you around also. However, the 338LM really is meant for those real long distances. I have all the reloading gear, bullets, powder, primers, virgin brass, etc. to reload, but yet to do so as I have only fired around 300-rounds through my TRG. I have been told by a reliable source that the Finnish Defense folks swap out their barrels at 3K rounds regardless if they're still shooting well, and also change the barrel anytime the accuracy drops outside of 1-MOA. This tells me that they have determined 338LM barrel life to be just over 3k rounds, at least with the TRG.

In my 300WM's, I exclusively shoot the 208 AMax and Berger 215 Hybrids, I feel they perform for my needs better than any other bullet offerings in the .30-cal class. I don't load them hot, and at my altitude, they fly very well out to almost a mile. Barrel live I'm told is 2k with the 300WM. My oldest 300WM has around 1500-rounds through it so far, and with the throat hardly moving, and rifling still crisp, I fully expect to get 2500-rounds.

In the end, you really can't compare the two cartridges any more then comparing the 243Win to the 260Rem, both great cartridges, with both having pros and cons.

 

[Saracen]

Re: 300 win mag VS 338lm accuracy at ELR

Get Bryan Litz's new book - Accuracy and Precision for Long Range Shooting. Entire chapter on this very subject. His conclusion, based on extensively computer program analysis-

300Win Mag loaded with Berger's 230gr OTM outperforms the 338 Lapua at 1000-1500 meters when the 338 is loaded with SMKs, Scenars and the lighter Berger Hybrid and is literally right below the 338 loaded with 300gr Berger Hybrid. This is on hit percentage of first rounds for an average shooter (elite stud shooters might be able to eek out higher % with the 338).

Conclusion - they are very very close.

I saw that, and it was certainly an eye opener.

 

[THEIS]

HI,

@Saracen

You do realize you are digging up years old threads in this subsection of the forums right? This one and the optics one....
Advancements have been made in every thread you have dug up, so much that the advancements almost nullify the thread in its' entirety.

Sincerely,
Theis

 

[Lynn Jr]

OP
I am a former 600/1000 yard Benchrest shooter who now runs 2000 yard URSA matches in NorCal.

When the guy told you that very few 338 rounds are used in 1000 yard Benchrest he was spot on.
Most of the 30 caliber rifles are 300 Ackley's which is a 300 Weatherby magnum that has been Ackley Improved without the double radiused shoulder and the 300 WSM.
You won't find many 300 Win Mags on the line and one of the better bullets is the BIB 187 flat based bullet. With that bullet most are shooting 13-14.25 twist rates. Groups are simply outstanding but a gun set-up for the 187 BIB bullet usually has too much freebore for most of the better boattail bullets

The biggest issue I see with the 338 Lapua is the freebore is 0.175 - 0.190 to short for the 300 grain MatchKing bullet requiring it to be seated way too deeply which hurts velocity as well as accuracy.
For ELR work the 338 is still very accurate and most importantly you can see the missed shots much easier.
The 338 Lapua,338 Lapua Ackley Improved 338 Norma Ackley Improved and 338 SnipeTac all work very well at 2000 yards.
Black gun is a 338 Lapua Ackley Improved.
Blue gun is a 300 Ackley.