Gunsmithing 308, 243, or 260 rem?

[huntersedge89]

I'm trying to decide on which of the above calibers (308, 243, or 260 rem) to go with for my build. It will be used for target shooting to 600 yards for now and hopefully out to 1000 yards in the future. As well as for whitetail hunting occasionally.

Which caliber would you recommend for this use and what barrel length, twist, and profile? I will be going with a Shilen barrel.

I would also like to have a muzzle break installed that works well, but also could be taken off easily for hunting. What would you recommend for this?

 

[BOLTRIPPER]

Re: 308, 243, or 260 rem?

everyone must have a go-to .308....it is said , it is written



if you can drive a .308 well....you can do any other caliber decently also

 

[FCS]

Re: 308, 243, or 260 rem?

260 as it has better ballistics than the 308 and better barrel life than the 243.

I prefer a 26" barrel but as short as 22 isn't going to hurt you.

Mainly target shooting I'd go heavy, AMU or there abouts. If you are going to be carrying rifle for hunting than might want to go more along the lines of a light Palma/Rem Varmint or even to a magnum sporter. Magnum sporter would be as light as I'd go, again personal preference.

 

[aggiesig]

Re: 308, 243, or 260 rem?

I think we need more info...

you going to reload? what do you currently own/ have you already shot? what stock/action are you going to use for your build?

Are you going to be shooting prone? from a bench/table/blind? That info will help us help you out by giving you good info.

Vias makes a hell of a muzzle brake, but if you are going to be shooting prone it's going to leave you feeling like pig-pen from Charlie Brown

for Prone an RWS, or Hollands, or other "fish-gill" brake would be best.

lenght will depend on type of shooting you plan on doing, and twist will depend on the bullet weight you plan on shooting. Profile depends on how much you are going to be lumping it around vs/ inherent accuracy. Super heavy short barrels are the most accurate, but don't get the best velocity.

everything is a compromise, which ones are you making?

 

[huntersedge89]

Re: 308, 243, or 260 rem?

The build will be on a Remington 700 SA with a HS take off stock (probably will upgrade to a McMillan or AICS later down the road).

Yes, I will be reloading for it. I am already set up for reloading for the 308, so that is a plus for that caliber.

Most of the shooting will be from the bench or prone. Hunting will be from a tree stand.

I will mostly be doing target shooting within 600 yards, but would like to move out out to 1000 yards if/ when I can find a place close enough to shoot that far.

 

[pinzmann]

Re: 308, 243, or 260 rem?

260

 

[jasonk]

Re: 308, 243, or 260 rem?

243

 

[Tunanut]

Re: 308, 243, or 260 rem?

Just getting in from my range. Shot a 7mm-08 160g slugs had some recoil, very close to the 308. My 12lb 243ai was shootin lights out today though we were only shooting out to 400. It's just so damn easy to shoot out to 600. After that the wind really pushes my 90g pills around. If I had to pick one gun it'd be the 243 these days, but I'd probably go with a 1:8 twist so I could turn some 115's. I don't have a 260 or a 6.5x47, but am considering them for an easy on my shoulder over 600 shooter.

 

[jacq220]

Re: 308, 243, or 260 rem?

.308

 

[aggiesig]

Re: 308, 243, or 260 rem?

I would say to stick with .308 for your purposes, with the 155's or 175's you can hit 1K supersonic and not have to change up too much stuff. And you can shoot just about anything reliably out to 600. (my gun likes 168 SMK's but they don't stay subsonic out to 1K from a 20" barrel)

that being said, I'm building a .260 with virtually identical goals in mind. But I am a big fan of .264 caliber bullets. Since I'm starting to reload rifle rounds from the ground up I might as well start with something I have a prior preference for. If I ever go big magnums I'll probably shoot a 264 Win Mag over a 300, just because I like it.


Nothing against the .308 and the .243 (I've killed 2 out of 3 of my last deer with a .243) Just different strokes for different folks.

 

[TCA4570]

Re: 308, 243, or 260 rem?

.260
It does all a .308 does.
Only better.
You already have the brass.
Get poked in the eye at over a mile with a .260, or sledge-hammered by a .338?

I have seen.
Maybe I'm kinda biased.

 

[Bacarrat]

Re: 308, 243, or 260 rem?

.243 shooting the 115gr bullets are hard to beat.

 

[sniperaviator]

Re: 308, 243, or 260 rem?

308 is super easy to load for and components are the MOST abundant. 308 barrels last a long time, like 5000 rounds. Kicks reasonably hard, but not punishing. Decent but not great ballistics

243 is actually a hot little round. To shoot the heavy bullets you need a custom barrel, 7 twist I believe. Pretty good ballistics. 243 is a barrel burner. Like 1200 rounds.

260 shoots flat as a 300 win mag. Bucks wind like a 300 winmag too. Kicks less than a 308. Barrels last maybe 2500 rounds. Good compromise on everything, with really good ballistics. 140 grain 260 bullets have VERY high BC's.

All are good rounds.

 

[jeepwilson]

Re: 308, 243, or 260 rem?

You could also do a 6.5 Creedmoor on the same action as what you are already thinking about.I like mine a lot!

 

[sermonator]

Re: 308, 243, or 260 rem?

I also think it depends whether you reload or not. If not, .308 is a no-brainer. If you reload: .260, hands down. Lapua is now making excelent brass. Easy to load for, exceptional accuracy, lower recoil, excellent bullets, much better ballistics. IMHO.

 

[Ouch!!]

Re: 308, 243, or 260 rem?

I love my .243 with the 115's.

I am building a .308 precision ar right now.

I have a friend that shoots the .260 and it has crossed my mind a million times, but for a little more bang I can move up to a 7saum and send bigger bullets faster and have better ballisics all around the board.

 

[fred3]

Re: 308, 243, or 260 rem?

flip a coin heads 308,tails 260, and enjoy

 

[Bacarrat]

Re: 308, 243, or 260 rem?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sniperaviator</div><div class="ubbcode-body">308 is super easy to load for and components are the MOST abundant. 308 barrels last a long time, like 5000 rounds. Kicks reasonably hard, but not punishing. Decent but not great ballistics

243 is actually a hot little round. To shoot the heavy bullets you need a custom barrel, 7 twist I believe. Pretty good ballistics. 243 is a barrel burner. Like 1200 rounds.

260 shoots flat as a 300 win mag. Bucks wind like a 300 winmag too. Kicks less than a 308. Barrels last maybe 2500 rounds. Good compromise on everything, with really good ballistics. 140 grain 260 bullets have VERY high BC's.

All are good rounds. </div></div>

If you want flat. The .243 will smoke the 260 with ease. The .260 will blow primers trying to catch up. And as for barrel life, I know people with more rounds in both the .243 and .260 with the numbers you quoted.

 

[JWV]

Re: 308, 243, or 260 rem?

If you want to take it to 1000 in the future the 308 is the last choice of the 3 but it can be done. However, you will need a bit longer barrel. 243 will have the best ballistics of the three.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: 308, 243, or 260 rem?

For the case capacity, I adjudge the .243 a bit overbore, and the .308 a bit under.

I consider the .260 (or the 7-08) to be more ideally suited for the case capacity. I consider them to be a better bet for energy transfer, especially at extended range.

For target work, I like the .260 better, due to bullet selection.

For 7mm, good bullets are appearing; and for 7mm, I would prefer the .280 Rem case to drive them at extreme ranges. The .280 Rem (AKA 7mm Rem Express) may turn out to be an ideal non-Magnum LR chambering for both hunting and LR target work. While the .280 rem May also be better for LR hunting, I am not such a huge fan of the practice. I don't believe in relying on the rifle to make up for stalking skills. I'd rather pass up the shot than risk botching it.

While the .260 Rem may lack that last bit of LR punch, the .280 Rem has no such issue.

For a Tactical Comp, I would feel more confident with a .280 Rem or .30-'06 than with a .260 Rem or a .308.

Incidentally, I would not hesitate to use the .280 Rem or .30-'06 for a short action LR target gun, or other application where single hand feeding is all you need to do. Empties should still extract and eject, and when required, a loaded round can still be removed by simply tripping the bolt release and withdrawing the bolt less than an inch further. I think it's unlikely that will happen all that often.

Greg

 

[RobertB]

Re: 308, 243, or 260 rem?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For the case capacity, I adjudge the .243 a bit overbore, and the .308 a bit under.

I consider the .260 (or the 7-08) to be more ideally suited for the case capacity. I consider them to be a better bet for energy transfer, especially at extended range.

For target work, I like the .260 better, due to bullet selection.

For 7mm, good bullets are appearing; and for 7mm, I would prefer the .280 Rem case to drive them at extreme ranges. The .280 Rem (AKA 7mm Rem Express) may turn out to be an ideal non-Magnum LR chambering for both hunting and target work.

While the .260 Rem may lack that last bit of LR punch, the .280 Rem has no such issue.

For a Tactical Comp, I would feel more confident with a .280 Rem or .30-'06 than with a .260 Rem or a .308.

Greg </div></div> Exactly.............. I have all 3 cartridges. Depends on if you load or not. I love my .260 and .243 BUT I will never be without a .308 if I can help it. I say .308 and learn with it first. It is not a bad round at all with good bullets. I do shoot my ,260 alot more and enjoy it more but I am loading for it. You cant go wrong either way. All 3 have their advantages. Good luck

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: 308, 243, or 260 rem?

I had ammended my post while you were responding. I think the additions are significant to your response; but I also agree, the .308 is a great LR starter cartridge, and the others offer a path to improved performance.

I would just add that my philosophy about training and learning is to get as much of the traffic off the centerfire rifle as you can, and to expend whatever wear and tear as you can manage on a rimfire.

IMHO, for LR training, very little of it actually needs to be done at the full distance. I do that more as a matter of confidence achievement and load performance confirmation than as an actual training goal.

Greg

 

[patriotoutlaw]

Re: 308, 243, or 260 rem?

First a .308, then get a .260, then get a .243...in that order. EVerybody needs a .308, the other two are luxuries IMHO.

 

[huntersedge89]

Re: 308, 243, or 260 rem?

Thanks for all the advice! I Already have a Remington 700 VSF in 308 which shoots well for what it is (I have shot consistent groups around 1/2 MOA with 110 grain sierra HP's out of it) but so far I haven't found a heavier load that will shoot that well.

I reload for it and all of my other guns, so which ever caliber I go with I will be reloading for.

 

[bowslngr]

Re: 308, 243, or 260 rem?

260, or 6.5 Creedmoor even better. 24" barrel. Palma or slightly lighter contour.

 

[1fstTA]

Re: 308, 243, or 260 rem?

243

 

[Cmonroe]

Re: 308, 243, or 260 rem?

260 enough said!

 

[huntersedge89]

Re: 308, 243, or 260 rem?

I wondering if someone can explain to me why the barrel life on the 243 win is said to be so much less than the 260 rem and 308 win? The bullet diameter of the 243 is only .021" less than the 260 rem, how does that small of bullet diameter difference account for around half that barrel life?

I really like the ballistics of the 243 win, but I don't want to be having to replace the barrel in a year or two.

 

[huntersedge89]

Re: 308, 243, or 260 rem?

What about the 6.5 creedmoor? does it have any advantages over the 260 rem?

 

[FCS]

Re: 308, 243, or 260 rem?

Overly simplified it is becuase you run roughly the same powder charge, possibly a touch more of a slower burn rate powder, in 243 as you do 260 but the bore is only 85% the area.

Funneling same amount of hot, high pressure, abrasive gas down a smaller bore is going to yield faster throat erosion.

 

[Quickdraw40]

Re: 308, 243, or 260 rem?

260
1:8, 24", medium palma
R&D rapid brake

 

[AKAce]

Re: 308, 243, or 260 rem?

.260, No Doubt

I started with .243, Ballistics are there, Horsepower is Not

.308 is Fun, cheap and great barrel life. Ballistics Suck

.260 just flat gets it done

 

[huntersedge89]

Re: 308, 243, or 260 rem?

Alright, I've decided on the 260 Rem or the 6.5 Creedmoor. Which of the two is better and why? From looking at the ballistics they seem to be about the same, with maybe a slight advantage going to the 6.5 Creedmoor.

Would a 22"-24" barrel be alright in either of these calibers? or what do you think the optimal barrel length would be for these calibers without sacrificing too much velocity?

 

[sniperaviator]

Re: 308, 243, or 260 rem?

There are 3 and soon to be 4 (Lapua) mfgs of 260 Remington brass. There is only one maker of 6.5 Creedmoor brass and only one maker of 6.5x47 Brass. Creedmoor brass is slightly shorter brass so you may have an easier time fitting the AICS magazines but really, if you throat your barrel right (touch the lands at 2.84" with your bullet) you will be ok with either. Ballistically the three are essentially the same. Right now midway shows that it has available 260 Remington brass and the 6.5x47 as available and 6.5 Creedmoor brass as out of stock. As for dies, Redding has all three and so does RCBS. Lee does not have dies in 6.5 creedmoor or 6.5x47 that I can find. Hodgdon does not show 6.5x47 load data but it has data for the other two. I'd say it doesn't really matter which one you choose so long as you can find brass and dies you like and your gunsmith has the right reamer.

 

[fw707]

Re: 308, 243, or 260 rem?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: huntersedge89</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I will mostly be doing target shooting within 600 yards, but would like to move out out to 1000 yards if/ when I can find a place close enough to shoot that far.
</div></div>

After pestering the crap out of some very knowledgeable folks on here, I decided on the .260 for the same use as you have planned. Hopefully it'll be here in a few days. I'm getting a 23" #3 contour barrel in an 8.5 twist.
I ran 20 pieces of new .243 brass through the new .260 die a few days ago and it worked slicker than boiled owl turds.

 

[KPK]

Re: 308, 243, or 260 rem?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sniperaviator</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There are 3 and soon to be 4 (Lapua) mfgs of 260 Remington brass. There is only one maker of 6.5 Creedmoor brass and only one maker of 6.5x47 Brass. Creedmoor brass is slightly shorter brass so you may have an easier time fitting the AICS magazines but really, if you throat your barrel right (touch the lands at 2.84" with your bullet) you will be ok with either. Ballistically the three are essentially the same. Right now midway shows that it has available 260 Remington brass and the 6.5x47 as available and 6.5 Creedmoor brass as out of stock. As for dies, Redding has all three and so does RCBS. Lee does not have dies in 6.5 creedmoor or 6.5x47 that I can find. Hodgdon does not show 6.5x47 load data but it has data for the other two. I'd say it doesn't really matter which one you choose so long as you can find brass and dies you like and your gunsmith has the right reamer. </div></div>

That's what I worry about with the 260. Will you get full potential from a 140 berger in AICS mag??

 

[sniperaviator]

Re: 308, 243, or 260 rem?

You can get the full potential out of an AICS mag if you throat the barrel right. I have a Rem 260 and 140 Bergers touch the lands at 2.85". I load 2.845" OAL. The AICS mag will accept round 2.88" long. For Bergers you need short throating as their "ogive base" (where the .264 starts) is quite far back. It is a very pointed bullet. The 139 Lapua Scenars have to be loaded at 2.775" OAL, so you see they are different. Still usable though, however I am going with the Bergers (for now).

You have discovered the main advantage of Creedmoor (and 6.5x47), over 260 Remington. Shorter case length allows more tolerance in fitting into AICS magazines. But 260 Remington will fit fine if you get it throated right.

Lapua Brass is a thing of beauty. I have 200 in .308. They are within 1 grain of weighing the same! Lapua is going to be making 260 Remington REAL SOON NOW! Of course Lapua makes 6.5x47. Having Lapua brass is what's good about 6.5x47 (and soon to be 260 Remington).

Both will work fine. GA Precision seems to favor 260 Remington. Surgeon is putting out the 6.5 Creedmoor rifles, so I guess they like that one a little better. Both of these rifles are $4k+ rifles and shoot really well.

 

[bolt56]

Re: 308, 243, or 260 rem?

Very good discussion. 308

 

[crazedone2]

Re: 308, 243, or 260 rem?

I vote 260

 

[dar1246]

Re: 308, 243, or 260 rem?

I believe in starting with the 308 and learning the wind. This is the best round. Great barrel life, accurate. Once you get good with this. All other are easy. This gives you a gun that can be shot daily in practice and not to worry about barrel life.

 

[gvanhyning]

Re: 308, 243, or 260 rem?

I have a .243AI, 2 .308 Winchesters and have a custom build 6.5 in the works. I like the .308 Win and it has a lot of versatility in terms of hunting. I shoot the .308's in matches and hunt them as well. I did see you were looking at a HS Precision stock but wanting a McMillan down the road ... get what you want now. Buying something now to change later is a waste of money. One other tip, I would only buy bottom metal that utilizes AICS magazines. The other magazine types don't always allow for a longer C.O.A.L. and they definitely don't feed as well.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: 308, 243, or 260 rem?

The 6.5CM has a marginally smaller OAL with the same bullets than the .260 Rem. This is intended to allow magazine loading with an OAL that has a better (closer) relationship to the rifling. There is some validity to this as truly close jumping OAL's with the .260 and the longer bullets will often exceed max OAL for the standard short action magazine. The 6.5CM has a slightly smaller case capacity and a slightly longer case neck. The latter is believed by some to favor longer throat life.

Conversely, 6.5CM brass availability can be spotty, while .260 cases can be bought as Rem brass more readily and/or very easily necked up/down from .243Win/7mm-08 brass from essentially any source. I have even made some from .308, but it didn't turn out as well as using .243/7-08.

IMHO, performance is virtually identical.

Greg

 

[michael_aos]

Re: 308, 243, or 260 rem?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sniperaviator</div><div class="ubbcode-body">260 shoots flat as a 300 win mag. Bucks wind like a 300 winmag too. Kicks less than a 308. Barrels last maybe 2500 rounds. </div></div>

The believe the winner at our local Prairie Dog match yesterday has ~4800rds on his 260 Remington.

He's going to rebarrel it soon, but obviously still working fine. Shoots 142SMK & H4831.

 

[Smokin99]

Re: 308, 243, or 260 rem?

Plain 260
Sendero Contour 20-22" 1:8.5 twist, JP Tactical muzzl break, 120gr VLD. Killed an Elk this year with one so killing deer will work fine shot abunch of Speed goats too and busted tons of rocks/steel passed 1000yards
I use 308Lapua brass in my 260 but lapua is making 260brass so wont be doing that anymore once its availible.

If you go with a 243 make sure you Ackley it!

 

[psinclair]

Re: 308, 243, or 260 rem?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I believe in starting with the 308 and learning the wind. This is the best round. Great barrel life, accurate. Once you get good with this. All other are easy. This gives you a gun that can be shot daily in practice and not to worry about barrel life. </div></div>

IMO, this sums it up to a tee...

 

[SScott]

Re: 308, 243, or 260 rem?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Quickdraw40</div><div class="ubbcode-body">260
1:8, 24", medium palma
R&D rapid brake </div></div>
Thats what we need, someone to just spell the shit out for us.
I am currently running a .308 with 175 SMK's at around 2715fps, my goal is to shoot it this year and in the Fall convet it to a .260, thanks for all of the good input.
SScott

 

[OFIS]

Re: 308, 243, or 260 rem?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PGS</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I believe in starting with the 308 and learning the wind. This is the best round. Great barrel life, accurate. Once you get good with this. All other are easy. This gives you a gun that can be shot daily in practice and not to worry about barrel life. </div></div>

IMO, this sums it up to a tee... </div></div>

+1
Same conclusion I came to.

 

[2clicks]

Re: 308, 243, or 260 rem?

260 Remington

Just had GA Precision whittle me out a 26" Medium Palma Bartlein 1-8 twist barrel. (Haven't shot it yet, I can't take the suspense just got it back 2/14)
To me it was a better choice than 243, 308 or 6.5Creedmoor. Yes I have a .308 and a .243 they both shoot well out to 600. Considering all the variables I think 260 is one of the best all around options.

And since your talking about hunting with it, I believe you would be hard pressed to find a better choice for a Short Action I think a 24" barrel would serve you well. I went 26" since my rifle is for NRA Long range matches.
I also have a 22" remington 700 260 for deer hunting it doesn't need a brake. The 129 Hornady SST's I use have no problem putting down deer.

Since you already have a .308.

Yeah what Scott said....

 

[Emouse]

Re: 308, 243, or 260 rem?

+1 on the above. 260,..its a no brainer.

 

[Quickdraw40]

Re: 308, 243, or 260 rem?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sunnyside Scott</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Quickdraw40</div><div class="ubbcode-body">260
1:8, 24", medium palma
R&D rapid brake </div></div>
Thats what we need, someone to just spell the shit out for us.
I am currently running a .308 with 175 SMK's at around 2715fps, my goal is to shoot it this year and in the Fall convet it to a .260, thanks for all of the good input.
SScott </div></div>

..... and I'll add: quickly change to a Thunderbeast 30P-1 to keep your squad mates happy.