Re: 308, 243, or 260 rem?
I shoot a .243, but if your already set up for 308 thats what I'd shoot.
I shoot a .243, but if your already set up for 308 thats what I'd shoot.
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Gunsmithing 308, 243, or 260 rem?
- Thread starter huntersedge89
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Re: 308, 243, or 260 rem?
go 308, factory ammo abundant, components endless, get a 308 learn to shoot it and do not look back
go 308, factory ammo abundant, components endless, get a 308 learn to shoot it and do not look back
Re: 308, 243, or 260 rem?
Hunter, ask when they answer to include experiences such as how long they've been shooting, hunting, what kind of shooting or hunting, whether they load, and most importantly, why they feel the choice they vote for is the better one. You'll get a much better answer without absent the chaff.
For example:
Been shooting and much load testing since 1978 from 17hmr to 460 WhyMag (I'm 48 now), shooting Metallic Silhouette, deer hunting in LA and TX, never killed anything over 150lbs, many coyotes, some ducks, dove, rabbits..mostly varmints, crows.
My order of preference of the three are;
243, 260, 308 dictated by exterior ballistics / performance.
A 115 DTAC at 3000 fps the 243 performance superior to the other two, but only slightly better than 260 with a 142 smk at 2950. However, that's merely an illustration since you're interested in hunting and I'm not familiar with hunting bullet performance. I think Berger makes a 115 hunting bullet.
Folks are carried away with barrel life. Five hundred dollars buys a fine hunting barrel and smithing. Second, no rule mandates every round fired must be of full capacity, mach 3 velocity; third, once you wear out a 243 you'll be an accomplished...maybe an expert with your hunting rifle; fourth, how many $500 will you earn in the time taken to wear out a barrel?; five, how many other $500 will we squander on junk during that time? That's ten tanks of gas in my car just to go get an espresso!
Shooting your 243 twenty rounds per range session, which is reasonable if they are 20 deliberate, slow, shots, one weekend per month, which is about all a married man might get to shoot (alter as it might apply), assuming the normal 243 barrel life of 1500 rounds means the time necessary to wear out your 243 will be 20 rounds divided into 1500 equals 75 (months) divided by 12 to get years equals 6.25 years or can be expressed as 6 years and three months.
Check my homework. I'm a lawyer. I don't do math good.
Or you could shoot it three times more frequently or three times more ammo when you do shoot, and still take two years to wear it out.
Guys, please get off that barrel life horse. Its dead, dude.
Hunter, ask when they answer to include experiences such as how long they've been shooting, hunting, what kind of shooting or hunting, whether they load, and most importantly, why they feel the choice they vote for is the better one. You'll get a much better answer without absent the chaff.
For example:
Been shooting and much load testing since 1978 from 17hmr to 460 WhyMag (I'm 48 now), shooting Metallic Silhouette, deer hunting in LA and TX, never killed anything over 150lbs, many coyotes, some ducks, dove, rabbits..mostly varmints, crows.
My order of preference of the three are;
243, 260, 308 dictated by exterior ballistics / performance.
A 115 DTAC at 3000 fps the 243 performance superior to the other two, but only slightly better than 260 with a 142 smk at 2950. However, that's merely an illustration since you're interested in hunting and I'm not familiar with hunting bullet performance. I think Berger makes a 115 hunting bullet.
Folks are carried away with barrel life. Five hundred dollars buys a fine hunting barrel and smithing. Second, no rule mandates every round fired must be of full capacity, mach 3 velocity; third, once you wear out a 243 you'll be an accomplished...maybe an expert with your hunting rifle; fourth, how many $500 will you earn in the time taken to wear out a barrel?; five, how many other $500 will we squander on junk during that time? That's ten tanks of gas in my car just to go get an espresso!
Shooting your 243 twenty rounds per range session, which is reasonable if they are 20 deliberate, slow, shots, one weekend per month, which is about all a married man might get to shoot (alter as it might apply), assuming the normal 243 barrel life of 1500 rounds means the time necessary to wear out your 243 will be 20 rounds divided into 1500 equals 75 (months) divided by 12 to get years equals 6.25 years or can be expressed as 6 years and three months.
Check my homework. I'm a lawyer. I don't do math good.
Or you could shoot it three times more frequently or three times more ammo when you do shoot, and still take two years to wear it out.
Guys, please get off that barrel life horse. Its dead, dude.
Re: 308, 243, or 260 rem?
Most I know are more interested in 260s instead of 243s because of the increased energy with a hit. 105-115s do not always show a visible hit (movement) on an AR500 target and therefore can be counted as a miss in competition. $0.02
Most I know are more interested in 260s instead of 243s because of the increased energy with a hit. 105-115s do not always show a visible hit (movement) on an AR500 target and therefore can be counted as a miss in competition. $0.02
Re: 308, 243, or 260 rem?
They both should have close to the same amount of energy out to distance. Last time I ran the numbers, it was around 30-40ft lbs of energy.
They both should have close to the same amount of energy out to distance. Last time I ran the numbers, it was around 30-40ft lbs of energy.
Re: 308, 243, or 260 rem?
i have a .308 and love it. But i think you should be happy with any of em.
i have a .308 and love it. But i think you should be happy with any of em.
Re: 308, 243, or 260 rem?
.308 to learn on.
Once your good with that at 1000 yards, moving onto a .260 will only be easier.
.308 to learn on.
Once your good with that at 1000 yards, moving onto a .260 will only be easier.
Re: 308, 243, or 260 rem?
..
.308 if you can't or won't reload.
.308 if you can't or won't pay for a wildcat.
.308 if you need to learn the basics.
.308 if you need to resell your rig fast
.260 if you want much better ballistics, are willing to reload, shoot way out.
.243 if your hunting varmint or punching paper and haven't realized it is all better with a .260.
..
.308 if you can't or won't reload.
.308 if you can't or won't pay for a wildcat.
.308 if you need to learn the basics.
.308 if you need to resell your rig fast
.260 if you want much better ballistics, are willing to reload, shoot way out.
.243 if your hunting varmint or punching paper and haven't realized it is all better with a .260.
Re: 308, 243, or 260 rem?
Boltripper says .308 if you don't have one and a lot of people would agree. Luckily you already have one and reload for it, so my recommendation would be the .260 or some other similar round like the 6.5x47mm Lapua.
The 6.5s have much better external ballistics than the .308, and are much more resistant to the wind at longer distances than the .243 is.
Here is a link to my range report for my new 6.5x47 and I think the specs of the rifle would suit your needs pretty well. If it was going to see more hunting duty I would just go with a slightly lighter contour barrel and smaller scope.
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthre...421#Post2274421
In the calibers you are considering, a muzzle brake is not necessary. Save it for bigger calibers.
Boltripper says .308 if you don't have one and a lot of people would agree. Luckily you already have one and reload for it, so my recommendation would be the .260 or some other similar round like the 6.5x47mm Lapua.
The 6.5s have much better external ballistics than the .308, and are much more resistant to the wind at longer distances than the .243 is.
Here is a link to my range report for my new 6.5x47 and I think the specs of the rifle would suit your needs pretty well. If it was going to see more hunting duty I would just go with a slightly lighter contour barrel and smaller scope.
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthre...421#Post2274421
In the calibers you are considering, a muzzle brake is not necessary. Save it for bigger calibers.
Re: 308, 243, or 260 rem?
With Laupa soon to be releasing 260 Rem brass there really is no need to use a 6.5x47 unless you already have one. I'll regress from repeating all the attributes of the 260 Rem laid out here but will say that is best route.
Jason
With Laupa soon to be releasing 260 Rem brass there really is no need to use a 6.5x47 unless you already have one. I'll regress from repeating all the attributes of the 260 Rem laid out here but will say that is best route.
Jason
Re: 308, 243, or 260 rem?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: McCrazy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In the calibers you are considering, a muzzle break is not necessary. Save it for bigger calibers. </div></div>
The muzzle brake makes it easier (I know with perfect form, we don't need it, but we shoot in field/awkward positions) to call your own shots. I appreciate a spotter/scorekeeper calling shots, but seeing them yourself is a tremendous help. YMMV
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: McCrazy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In the calibers you are considering, a muzzle break is not necessary. Save it for bigger calibers. </div></div>
The muzzle brake makes it easier (I know with perfect form, we don't need it, but we shoot in field/awkward positions) to call your own shots. I appreciate a spotter/scorekeeper calling shots, but seeing them yourself is a tremendous help. YMMV
Re: 308, 243, or 260 rem?
If you are "learning" then the .308
If you have time in and have the fundamentals then add a .260 (still keep a .308)
If you are "learning" then the .308
If you have time in and have the fundamentals then add a .260 (still keep a .308)
Re: 308, 243, or 260 rem?
I don't want to disillusion anyone, but the .260 has been doing quite well for years without Lapua's intervention. Yes, folks could neck up Lapua .243. I just don't think it's been happening all that often; and I'm not hearing any indications that the Lapua .260 brass is going to be manna from heaven when it finally does apopear. It will undoubtedly do all the good/great things Lapua brass is noted for; but I just don't see it as being the kind of game changer many folks appear to be expecting.
I welcome its arrival. I just don't want folks setting themselves up with exalted exectations.
Greg
I don't want to disillusion anyone, but the .260 has been doing quite well for years without Lapua's intervention. Yes, folks could neck up Lapua .243. I just don't think it's been happening all that often; and I'm not hearing any indications that the Lapua .260 brass is going to be manna from heaven when it finally does apopear. It will undoubtedly do all the good/great things Lapua brass is noted for; but I just don't see it as being the kind of game changer many folks appear to be expecting.
I welcome its arrival. I just don't want folks setting themselves up with exalted exectations.
Greg
Re: 308, 243, or 260 rem?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: huntersedge89</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks for all the advice! I Already have a Remington 700 VSF in 308 which shoots well for what it is (I have shot consistent groups around 1/2 MOA with 110 grain sierra HP's out of it) but so far I haven't found a heavier load that will shoot that well.
I reload for it and all of my other guns, so which ever caliber I go with I will be reloading for.
</div></div>
the reason your gun likes the lightweight stuff is it's twist rate remingtons typically are a 1-12, to shoot 155-175 bullets well you need a 1-10. to shoot stuff over 220 you will need a 1-8. I want to retube my LTR with a short(16-18") 1-8 barrel to shoot the 240SMK's subsonic.
good luck with the .260 it's my next gun too
I just got in the forster benchrest Dies last week, along with 100 lapua 139 gr. scenars, and 100 pieces of remington brass. All I need now is an action and trigger and a little time at the smiths...and I'll be GTG!!!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: huntersedge89</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks for all the advice! I Already have a Remington 700 VSF in 308 which shoots well for what it is (I have shot consistent groups around 1/2 MOA with 110 grain sierra HP's out of it) but so far I haven't found a heavier load that will shoot that well.
I reload for it and all of my other guns, so which ever caliber I go with I will be reloading for.
</div></div>
the reason your gun likes the lightweight stuff is it's twist rate remingtons typically are a 1-12, to shoot 155-175 bullets well you need a 1-10. to shoot stuff over 220 you will need a 1-8. I want to retube my LTR with a short(16-18") 1-8 barrel to shoot the 240SMK's subsonic.
good luck with the .260 it's my next gun too
Re: 308, 243, or 260 rem?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> In response to:
Poster: Greg Langelius *
Subject: Re: 308, 243, or 260 rem?
I don't want to disillusion anyone, but the .260 has been doing quite well for years without Lapua's intervention. Yes, folks could neck up Lapua .243. I just don't think it's been happening all that often; and I'm not hearing any indications that the Lapua .260 brass is going to be manna from heaven when it finally does apopear. It will undoubtedly do all the good/great things Lapua brass is noted for; but I just don't see it as being the kind of game changer many folks appear to be expecting.
I welcome its arrival. I just don't want folks setting themselves up with exalted exectations.
Greg
</div></div>
That's a good point. But the primary reason that I find the Lapua news exciting is less time doing redundant case prep and more time and effort concentrated shooting.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> In response to:
Poster: Greg Langelius *
Subject: Re: 308, 243, or 260 rem?
I don't want to disillusion anyone, but the .260 has been doing quite well for years without Lapua's intervention. Yes, folks could neck up Lapua .243. I just don't think it's been happening all that often; and I'm not hearing any indications that the Lapua .260 brass is going to be manna from heaven when it finally does apopear. It will undoubtedly do all the good/great things Lapua brass is noted for; but I just don't see it as being the kind of game changer many folks appear to be expecting.
I welcome its arrival. I just don't want folks setting themselves up with exalted exectations.
Greg
</div></div>
That's a good point. But the primary reason that I find the Lapua news exciting is less time doing redundant case prep and more time and effort concentrated shooting.
Re: 308, 243, or 260 rem?
This might be the wrong time and place for this question:
but I would rather neck down 7mm-08 than neck up 243. the dimensions are more similar, and you wouldn't worry about thinning out your neck area as much.
am I wrong on this? I don't do any necking up or down or cartridges currently but If I ever decide to play wildcat is there a preferred method?
This might be the wrong time and place for this question:
but I would rather neck down 7mm-08 than neck up 243. the dimensions are more similar, and you wouldn't worry about thinning out your neck area as much.
am I wrong on this? I don't do any necking up or down or cartridges currently but If I ever decide to play wildcat is there a preferred method?
Re: 308, 243, or 260 rem?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jayman_10X</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> In response to:
Poster: Greg Langelius *
Subject: Re: 308, 243, or 260 rem?
I don't want to disillusion anyone, but the .260 has been doing quite well for years without Lapua's intervention. Yes, folks could neck up Lapua .243. I just don't think it's been happening all that often; and I'm not hearing any indications that the Lapua .260 brass is going to be manna from heaven when it finally does apopear. It will undoubtedly do all the good/great things Lapua brass is noted for; but I just don't see it as being the kind of game changer many folks appear to be expecting.
I welcome its arrival. I just don't want folks setting themselves up with exalted exectations.
Greg
</div></div>
That's a good point. But the primary reason that I find the Lapua news exciting is less time doing redundant case prep and more time and effort concentrated shooting.</div></div>
On this I have to agree with both of you. I only run Lapua brass, for reasons stated by Jayman, and on my 308 nothing could make me think any different. On my 260, Im necking up Lapua 243, and I am kinda leaning towards Greg's persuasion. I've seen some insane bughole shooting, match winning rifles running RP 260 brass, with THE MOST LAZY ASS PREP that makes me cringe!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jayman_10X</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> In response to:
Poster: Greg Langelius *
Subject: Re: 308, 243, or 260 rem?
I don't want to disillusion anyone, but the .260 has been doing quite well for years without Lapua's intervention. Yes, folks could neck up Lapua .243. I just don't think it's been happening all that often; and I'm not hearing any indications that the Lapua .260 brass is going to be manna from heaven when it finally does apopear. It will undoubtedly do all the good/great things Lapua brass is noted for; but I just don't see it as being the kind of game changer many folks appear to be expecting.
I welcome its arrival. I just don't want folks setting themselves up with exalted exectations.
Greg
</div></div>
That's a good point. But the primary reason that I find the Lapua news exciting is less time doing redundant case prep and more time and effort concentrated shooting.</div></div>
On this I have to agree with both of you. I only run Lapua brass, for reasons stated by Jayman, and on my 308 nothing could make me think any different. On my 260, Im necking up Lapua 243, and I am kinda leaning towards Greg's persuasion. I've seen some insane bughole shooting, match winning rifles running RP 260 brass, with THE MOST LAZY ASS PREP that makes me cringe!
Re: 308, 243, or 260 rem?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: aggiesig</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This might be the wrong time and place for this question:
but I would rather neck down 7mm-08 than neck up 243. the dimensions are more similar, and you wouldn't worry about thinning out your neck area as much.
am I wrong on this? I don't do any necking up or down or cartridges currently but If I ever decide to play wildcat is there a preferred method? </div></div>
Necking down is much easier.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: aggiesig</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This might be the wrong time and place for this question:
but I would rather neck down 7mm-08 than neck up 243. the dimensions are more similar, and you wouldn't worry about thinning out your neck area as much.
am I wrong on this? I don't do any necking up or down or cartridges currently but If I ever decide to play wildcat is there a preferred method? </div></div>
Necking down is much easier.
Re: 308, 243, or 260 rem?
I ordered a .260, thought about this a lot and went with the .260 because of better ballistics.
I ordered a .260, thought about this a lot and went with the .260 because of better ballistics.
Re: 308, 243, or 260 rem?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: aggiesig</div><div class="ubbcode-body">the reason your gun likes the lightweight stuff is it's twist rate remingtons typically are a 1-12, to shoot 155-175 bullets well you need a 1-10. to shoot stuff over 220 you will need a 1-8. I want to retube my LTR with a short(16-18") 1-8 barrel to shoot the 240SMK's subsonic. </div></div>
Please dont tell my factory barreled LTR this. Shot exactly 3, 5 rnd groups with it at 1K, the best was sub 5", the other two sub moa, all pushing 178 Amax's.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: aggiesig</div><div class="ubbcode-body">the reason your gun likes the lightweight stuff is it's twist rate remingtons typically are a 1-12, to shoot 155-175 bullets well you need a 1-10. to shoot stuff over 220 you will need a 1-8. I want to retube my LTR with a short(16-18") 1-8 barrel to shoot the 240SMK's subsonic. </div></div>
Please dont tell my factory barreled LTR this. Shot exactly 3, 5 rnd groups with it at 1K, the best was sub 5", the other two sub moa, all pushing 178 Amax's.
Re: 308, 243, or 260 rem?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: okiefired</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: aggiesig</div><div class="ubbcode-body">the reason your gun likes the lightweight stuff is it's twist rate remingtons typically are a 1-12, to shoot 155-175 bullets well you need a 1-10. to shoot stuff over 220 you will need a 1-8. I want to retube my LTR with a short(16-18") 1-8 barrel to shoot the 240SMK's subsonic. </div></div>
Please dont tell my factory barreled LTR this. Shot exactly 3, 5 rnd groups with it at 1K, the best was sub 5", the other two sub moa, all pushing 178 Amax's. </div></div>
he he he your a lucky man my LTR won't do much with anything over the 168 SMK. I haven't shot the 178 Amax's but mine really likes the 155's
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: okiefired</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: aggiesig</div><div class="ubbcode-body">the reason your gun likes the lightweight stuff is it's twist rate remingtons typically are a 1-12, to shoot 155-175 bullets well you need a 1-10. to shoot stuff over 220 you will need a 1-8. I want to retube my LTR with a short(16-18") 1-8 barrel to shoot the 240SMK's subsonic. </div></div>
Please dont tell my factory barreled LTR this. Shot exactly 3, 5 rnd groups with it at 1K, the best was sub 5", the other two sub moa, all pushing 178 Amax's. </div></div>
he he he your a lucky man my LTR won't do much with anything over the 168 SMK. I haven't shot the 178 Amax's but mine really likes the 155's
Re: 308, 243, or 260 rem?
243 is a sweet caliber. My factory Remy with 26" barrel and 9.125 twist loves to send hand loaded 70grainers down the same path creating clover like patterns all day. The 100grainers are fine also, my rifle shoots just into MOA (in the .8 or mostly in the .9's) to slightly out of MOA (up to 1.5") with the 100's.
I haven't locked down a solid recipe yet for the 100s but getting closer. And beyond these weights I haven't found a performer for my 243. Mostly to the barrel twist - I think.
Once this barrel is shot out, I'll likely re barrel it to 260 also. <smile>
243 is a sweet caliber. My factory Remy with 26" barrel and 9.125 twist loves to send hand loaded 70grainers down the same path creating clover like patterns all day. The 100grainers are fine also, my rifle shoots just into MOA (in the .8 or mostly in the .9's) to slightly out of MOA (up to 1.5") with the 100's.
I haven't locked down a solid recipe yet for the 100s but getting closer. And beyond these weights I haven't found a performer for my 243. Mostly to the barrel twist - I think.
Once this barrel is shot out, I'll likely re barrel it to 260 also. <smile>
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