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308 Barrel Twist How to Decide
- Thread starter kwak
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Re: 308 Barrel Twist How to Decide
What bullets do you plan on driving with the rifle? What ranges do you plan on shooting?
What bullets do you plan on driving with the rifle? What ranges do you plan on shooting?
Re: 308 Barrel Twist How to Decide
Ultimately it would depend on your needs and what weight bullet you were looking to use primarily. I wanted the ability to have a wide variety of options which is why I went with 11.25:1 (standard Remington 5R twist rate). At short distances my rifle produces similar results with bullets ranging from 168 to 190 grains. I have not experimented with anything lighter of heavier yet (if its not broke, don't fix it). Perhaps if you fill in exactly what you intend on using the rifle for it could be clarified better. I do not have much experience with an 18 inch barrel because I opt for a 24" barrel not because of Muzzle velocity but because I like the balance and my needs are not usually impeded by mobility.
Ultimately it would depend on your needs and what weight bullet you were looking to use primarily. I wanted the ability to have a wide variety of options which is why I went with 11.25:1 (standard Remington 5R twist rate). At short distances my rifle produces similar results with bullets ranging from 168 to 190 grains. I have not experimented with anything lighter of heavier yet (if its not broke, don't fix it). Perhaps if you fill in exactly what you intend on using the rifle for it could be clarified better. I do not have much experience with an 18 inch barrel because I opt for a 24" barrel not because of Muzzle velocity but because I like the balance and my needs are not usually impeded by mobility.
Re: 308 Barrel Twist How to Decide
I decided to go with the 308 over the 6.8spc because it offered bullets from 110-200grain. I doubt that I will ever shoot over 300yards. Longest range in the area. I enjoy reloading but would normally shoot the 168-175. Looking for a load for the 110 Hornady V-Max.
I decided to go with the 308 over the 6.8spc because it offered bullets from 110-200grain. I doubt that I will ever shoot over 300yards. Longest range in the area. I enjoy reloading but would normally shoot the 168-175. Looking for a load for the 110 Hornady V-Max.
Re: 308 Barrel Twist How to Decide
1:12, 1:11, 1:10 will all do what you want. I have a 1:10 and it does okay for 150-168 grain stuff and great with 175+ stuff.
110 VMAX? No idea. I use 223's for varminting, unless you mean some sort of low pressure load with it?
1:12, 1:11, 1:10 will all do what you want. I have a 1:10 and it does okay for 150-168 grain stuff and great with 175+ stuff.
110 VMAX? No idea. I use 223's for varminting, unless you mean some sort of low pressure load with it?
Re: 308 Barrel Twist How to Decide
The problem is that you can't have your cake and eat it too. While technically, you can run 110gr to 200gr bullets in the .308, doing it all with a single barrel is not ideal, nor will you likely get great results across the range of bullets weights you are thinking of using.
If you want to shoot as light as 110gr, I don't think that either barrel twist option you are considering is "ideal." You'd be better suited with a 1:12 twist for those purposes, but by doing so, you narrow your ability to stabilize the heavier pills. You would probably be better served with a 1:11.25 twist rather than the tighter 1:10 if you are primarily running up to 175gr bullets. Your mileage may vary in terms of performance with the heavier, 190gr+ bullets which is where the 1:10 begins to shine. I have switched to 1:10 twists in almost all my 308s, but I am only running as light as 155gr bullets (and as heavy as 208gr).
Frankly, I agree with BCP re: "varmint" bullets in a .308...I see no need whatsoever to run anything lighter than 150gr bullets from a 308. If you want a varmint gun, buy a varmint gun...but I will tell you, varmints get dead just as well and just as easy with 155gr bullets as they do with the lighter pills (TRUST ME...I've been doing it for years with an AR-10 or a .308 bolt gun when an AR-15 wasn't handy)!!
The problem is that you can't have your cake and eat it too. While technically, you can run 110gr to 200gr bullets in the .308, doing it all with a single barrel is not ideal, nor will you likely get great results across the range of bullets weights you are thinking of using.
If you want to shoot as light as 110gr, I don't think that either barrel twist option you are considering is "ideal." You'd be better suited with a 1:12 twist for those purposes, but by doing so, you narrow your ability to stabilize the heavier pills. You would probably be better served with a 1:11.25 twist rather than the tighter 1:10 if you are primarily running up to 175gr bullets. Your mileage may vary in terms of performance with the heavier, 190gr+ bullets which is where the 1:10 begins to shine. I have switched to 1:10 twists in almost all my 308s, but I am only running as light as 155gr bullets (and as heavy as 208gr).
Frankly, I agree with BCP re: "varmint" bullets in a .308...I see no need whatsoever to run anything lighter than 150gr bullets from a 308. If you want a varmint gun, buy a varmint gun...but I will tell you, varmints get dead just as well and just as easy with 155gr bullets as they do with the lighter pills (TRUST ME...I've been doing it for years with an AR-10 or a .308 bolt gun when an AR-15 wasn't handy)!!
Re: 308 Barrel Twist How to Decide
What maufactures would you recommend in the 155 grain varmit bullet for the 308? I agree that the 110 is light and I should be using the 223 but it was just a thought to play with. But from what you and the others have told me I would not want to compromise the accuracy of the 160-180 range just to play with a 110 grain varmit load. Thanks
What maufactures would you recommend in the 155 grain varmit bullet for the 308? I agree that the 110 is light and I should be using the 223 but it was just a thought to play with. But from what you and the others have told me I would not want to compromise the accuracy of the 160-180 range just to play with a 110 grain varmit load. Thanks
Re: 308 Barrel Twist How to Decide
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kwak</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What maufactures would you recommend in the 155 grain varmit bullet for the 308? I agree that the 110 is light and I should be using the 223 but it was just a thought to play with. But from what you and the others have told me I would not want to compromise the accuracy of the 160-180 range just to play with a 110 grain varmit load. Thanks
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110s are GREAT! I have a load for my LTR that I love shooting.
It's great for long range varminting. It is also believed by Hornady to be the ideal LE sniping bullet because it's highly frangible and won't penetrate much of anything without breaking up quickly - very little chance of hitting target and passing through in order to hit an innocent person who may be on the other side.
Perhaps most will very likely never be in the scenario, but it's nice to train for what I would hope is never going to happen.
As far as 155 bullets, there is a 155 Amax that is outstanding. The Lapua Scenars are also outstanding, especially at long range.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kwak</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What maufactures would you recommend in the 155 grain varmit bullet for the 308? I agree that the 110 is light and I should be using the 223 but it was just a thought to play with. But from what you and the others have told me I would not want to compromise the accuracy of the 160-180 range just to play with a 110 grain varmit load. Thanks
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110s are GREAT! I have a load for my LTR that I love shooting.
It's great for long range varminting. It is also believed by Hornady to be the ideal LE sniping bullet because it's highly frangible and won't penetrate much of anything without breaking up quickly - very little chance of hitting target and passing through in order to hit an innocent person who may be on the other side.
Perhaps most will very likely never be in the scenario, but it's nice to train for what I would hope is never going to happen.
As far as 155 bullets, there is a 155 Amax that is outstanding. The Lapua Scenars are also outstanding, especially at long range.
Re: 308 Barrel Twist How to Decide
I have a 1:11 and a 1:11.25 both seem to like 168 and 175s the best but had some issues with the Lapua 155s in the 1:11.25. The 1:11 eats really anything bigger than a 150 but shines with the heavier ones.
I have a 1:11 and a 1:11.25 both seem to like 168 and 175s the best but had some issues with the Lapua 155s in the 1:11.25. The 1:11 eats really anything bigger than a 150 but shines with the heavier ones.
Re: 308 Barrel Twist How to Decide
Well, the thing for me with light varmint bullets in a 308 is that I have a safe full of 243, 22-250 and 223 rifles that are all tack drivers so why bother?
Depending on how much accuracy you want you could probably do just fine with a 150FMJ of your choice. If you don't mind buying LOTS of bullets at once, the 155 and 168 noslers come in bulk packs of 1k for 190$ from powdervalleyinc. 150FMJ stuff is typically 175 per 1k so that's not a big price increase and they are much better bullets.
Well, the thing for me with light varmint bullets in a 308 is that I have a safe full of 243, 22-250 and 223 rifles that are all tack drivers so why bother?
Depending on how much accuracy you want you could probably do just fine with a 150FMJ of your choice. If you don't mind buying LOTS of bullets at once, the 155 and 168 noslers come in bulk packs of 1k for 190$ from powdervalleyinc. 150FMJ stuff is typically 175 per 1k so that's not a big price increase and they are much better bullets.
Re: 308 Barrel Twist How to Decide
I don't think you would be making a mistake to go 1 in 1. Especially if you decide you want to suppress it later. My DPMS and LWRC were both 1 in 10 and shot very well with 168 and 175 grain bullets.
I don't think you would be making a mistake to go 1 in 1. Especially if you decide you want to suppress it later. My DPMS and LWRC were both 1 in 10 and shot very well with 168 and 175 grain bullets.
Re: 308 Barrel Twist How to Decide
+ 1 for 1-10 when I first started building my 308 AR-10T rifle I was living in Columbus NE . The home of Jerome Slusarski (Distinguished Riflemen , PALMA team late 80`s) and asked him what to go with and he said 1-10
as a side note I was pulling his target at a match and from prone 20 rds 600yd reduced for our 200 yd range we counted the bullets in the 10 ring to get the count for the x and it was 3 in the 10 and 17 x`s
here is a target from my AR-10
+ 1 for 1-10 when I first started building my 308 AR-10T rifle I was living in Columbus NE . The home of Jerome Slusarski (Distinguished Riflemen , PALMA team late 80`s) and asked him what to go with and he said 1-10
as a side note I was pulling his target at a match and from prone 20 rds 600yd reduced for our 200 yd range we counted the bullets in the 10 ring to get the count for the x and it was 3 in the 10 and 17 x`s
here is a target from my AR-10
Re: 308 Barrel Twist How to Decide
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kwak</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What maufactures would you recommend in the 155 grain varmit bullet for the 308? I agree that the 110 is light and I should be using the 223 but it was just a thought to play with. But from what you and the others have told me I would not want to compromise the accuracy of the 160-180 range just to play with a 110 grain varmit load. Thanks
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I didn't say anything about "varmint" bullets in the 155gr class...any 155gr bullet will do fine (I run a LOT of Lapua Scenars and A-MAX). Trust me, the groundhog/PD/yote/etc. doesn't care what type of bullet or what weight bullet they get shot with!!! If you can shoot worth a damn and you can put a bullet where you want it on a target, then pick a bullet that you can do that with and don't get hung up on the bullet type. In the last couple years, I have shot more varmints at varying ranges with 175gr SMKs that any other bullet on average and they get just as dead as the ones that get taken with lightweight "varmint" bullets. If you are one of "those people" that say it is wrong or otherewise unethical to take game with match bullets, then try the Barnes TSX/TTSX bullets (150-180gr).
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kwak</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What maufactures would you recommend in the 155 grain varmit bullet for the 308? I agree that the 110 is light and I should be using the 223 but it was just a thought to play with. But from what you and the others have told me I would not want to compromise the accuracy of the 160-180 range just to play with a 110 grain varmit load. Thanks
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I didn't say anything about "varmint" bullets in the 155gr class...any 155gr bullet will do fine (I run a LOT of Lapua Scenars and A-MAX). Trust me, the groundhog/PD/yote/etc. doesn't care what type of bullet or what weight bullet they get shot with!!! If you can shoot worth a damn and you can put a bullet where you want it on a target, then pick a bullet that you can do that with and don't get hung up on the bullet type. In the last couple years, I have shot more varmints at varying ranges with 175gr SMKs that any other bullet on average and they get just as dead as the ones that get taken with lightweight "varmint" bullets. If you are one of "those people" that say it is wrong or otherewise unethical to take game with match bullets, then try the Barnes TSX/TTSX bullets (150-180gr).
Re: 308 Barrel Twist How to Decide
I shoot 1/10 whenever possible and usually don't like 1/12... Rock uses 1/11.25 which is fine by me too, but 1/10 does it right. That includes shooting a bunch of 155gr Scenars...
I shoot 1/10 whenever possible and usually don't like 1/12... Rock uses 1/11.25 which is fine by me too, but 1/10 does it right. That includes shooting a bunch of 155gr Scenars...
Re: 308 Barrel Twist How to Decide
10 twist is great in the .308. Either that or an 11 would be my choice. Either will send out the bullets most used in a .308 without any troubles. You are fine with the 10 twist.
10 twist is great in the .308. Either that or an 11 would be my choice. Either will send out the bullets most used in a .308 without any troubles. You are fine with the 10 twist.
Re: 308 Barrel Twist How to Decide
Very interesting topic!
I have found it helps to think of a bullet's stability in terms of rotations per second of flight than rotations per inch. Muzzle velocity comes into play in determining what twist rate works with what bullet.
It also helps to think of the bullet's length rather than wieght. Long bullets, no matter their wiegth, seem to work better with faster rotational speeds. That is accomplished either through twist rate or increased velocity. Might help to explain why some bullets print tighter groups at the max pressure and fall apart in other rifles trying to acheive the same velocity.
Might be the differing twist rate, though altitude can 'save' a marginal load.
When it comes to the 'golf bag' approach to shooting, I tend toward one rifle, one bullet, one load and have at it. 155 'skinneys' to 175 Amax should do right by a marksman who can do his part. I tend toward a slightly heavier bullet thats not to deep into the VLD mystic.
Many any internet squabble has started over match bullets for game. I'll just say if you put the bullet where it needs to be the rest seems to work itself out. I've taken deer at distances most gun rag experts claim only a magnum can reach. slapped down coyotes over 3 football fields away I cant complain, but guess will never write for magazines that always seem to push the latest and greatest even if the laurels are doubtful at best.
The 308 is no laser, but I havent longed for a safe full of wonderweapons, just more time to practise.
1-10 will get you where you need to be, if thats all you can find you have found enough.
Good luck and clean follow through.
Very interesting topic!
I have found it helps to think of a bullet's stability in terms of rotations per second of flight than rotations per inch. Muzzle velocity comes into play in determining what twist rate works with what bullet.
It also helps to think of the bullet's length rather than wieght. Long bullets, no matter their wiegth, seem to work better with faster rotational speeds. That is accomplished either through twist rate or increased velocity. Might help to explain why some bullets print tighter groups at the max pressure and fall apart in other rifles trying to acheive the same velocity.
Might be the differing twist rate, though altitude can 'save' a marginal load.
When it comes to the 'golf bag' approach to shooting, I tend toward one rifle, one bullet, one load and have at it. 155 'skinneys' to 175 Amax should do right by a marksman who can do his part. I tend toward a slightly heavier bullet thats not to deep into the VLD mystic.
Many any internet squabble has started over match bullets for game. I'll just say if you put the bullet where it needs to be the rest seems to work itself out. I've taken deer at distances most gun rag experts claim only a magnum can reach. slapped down coyotes over 3 football fields away I cant complain, but guess will never write for magazines that always seem to push the latest and greatest even if the laurels are doubtful at best.
The 308 is no laser, but I havent longed for a safe full of wonderweapons, just more time to practise.
1-10 will get you where you need to be, if thats all you can find you have found enough.
Good luck and clean follow through.
Re: 308 Barrel Twist How to Decide
notquiteright, Thank you and the rest again for your knowledge.I am looking forward to reloading for this gun, it is very cold here and I need something to do. 30 years ago I had a 308 and loaded some SMK bullets in 168 and they worked good. LWRC offers a 1-10 and a 1-11.25. I've been told that I an not quite right but that is ok.
notquiteright, Thank you and the rest again for your knowledge.I am looking forward to reloading for this gun, it is very cold here and I need something to do. 30 years ago I had a 308 and loaded some SMK bullets in 168 and they worked good. LWRC offers a 1-10 and a 1-11.25. I've been told that I an not quite right but that is ok.
Re: 308 Barrel Twist How to Decide
Use a 1 in 10 i have shot them as that is the factory specification for a 308 and i have shot thousands of 125 and 130gr projectiles through them and they all shot well under MOA i have also shot the 110's but found that the velocity was similar tot he 125-130gr class of projectile so i just settled on the slightlyheavier projectile. you should see what a 130gr Speer HP does to a goat from a SLR or FAL they just used to bore holes in them i would reccomend the 10 twist and just shoot it and dont worry about the theorys behind things just know it will work and use it as you are also using a slightly shorter barrel the extra twist will also help with the heavier projectiles.
Use a 1 in 10 i have shot them as that is the factory specification for a 308 and i have shot thousands of 125 and 130gr projectiles through them and they all shot well under MOA i have also shot the 110's but found that the velocity was similar tot he 125-130gr class of projectile so i just settled on the slightlyheavier projectile. you should see what a 130gr Speer HP does to a goat from a SLR or FAL they just used to bore holes in them i would reccomend the 10 twist and just shoot it and dont worry about the theorys behind things just know it will work and use it as you are also using a slightly shorter barrel the extra twist will also help with the heavier projectiles.
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