.308 bullets 175-178- Berger, Hornady, Nosler. I want to hear your opinions.

[DP425]

I'm interested in using my M24 in tactical division just for fun; I've used 175SMK's since I went to sniper school in 2009, but it seems there are a number of better options out there now. I thought I had thousands of them, but upon further inspection, realized I really only have 800 or so left... which means I've got good reason to look into other alternatives now.

So I'm looking for some input- first, between the two Berger 175's (Long Rang BT, and VLD), what are your experiences? Performance? Ease of finding a load? Advantages and disadvantages between the two? Their BCs spec out identical.

Nosler RDF; I've heard some pretty bad things about nosler bullets, but I've not found all that much on the RDF given it's fairly new. The specs are impressive... are the advertised BC's close? Or heavily exaggerated?

Hornady 178 ELD- I'd like to hear anything anyone has to say on this as well. Hornady quality across the line seems pretty solid, but from what I've ready, their BC's are sometimes the most heavily exaggerated in the industry.



Let me hear your input on these bullets.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

I haven't used any of the newer higher BC 175gr class bullets (RDF, ELD, TMK) but I did do a lot of shooting with 175SMK's, 178Amax, and tried the 175gr Berger BT. The SMK's and Bergers were the two most consistent with Berger taking the cake, the Sierras performed inconsistently on game (was important to me at the time) and the Amax performed great on game and well as distance as far as consistency but not great. The Berger and Sierra's were easy to tune and not picky about seating depth but the Hornady bullets have always been picky about seating depth for me. Not a huge concern in a 308 though since the throat doesn't grow too quick, but still something to consider.

That said, for 308 bullets the 155gr Scenar and 185gr Juggernaut are my go to bullets for 308 performance. The latter obviously isn't an option for you in tactical division. The 155gr scenars pushed to 3K+ beat the hell out of any of the 175 class bullets I used. In a good barrel at least 22" 3000fps is safely achievable with Varget. 24" aftermarket barrels I generally saw 3050fps and the same for a factory 26" Rem 700P, and the one 26" Bartlein I ran them in was just shy of 3100fps. 46gr of Varget in Lapua cases has been the go to load in all of them. Start a little lower of course to verify safe pressure but that has always been were I've ended up for every rifle I shot them in. Pressure generally showed up around 47-47.5gr which is a nice buffer. For these velocities a .501-.504 G1 BC got me very close overall and always lined up to my 100 yard zero and 1000 yard drop. In between though I did have a true it a bit but this was before G7 and my understanding is this bullet matches a G7 form factor so that's probably why.

I don't shoot 308 much anymore and when I do it's with 185 Juggernauts since they perform a touch better, and way better at the low velocities I'm normally getting from the shorter barrels and gas guns I'm normally running for 308. I probably have a handful of the Scenars left over somewhere I could send you if you want to give them a shot in your rifle. Lapua for some reason thinks the bullets should cost half again more packaged by the 100 vs 1000 so they're certainly not cheap if you're wanting a few to test.

 

[Rob01]

Hornady 178 ELD- I'd like to hear anything anyone has to say on this as well. Hornady quality across the line seems pretty solid, but from what I've ready, their BC's are sometimes the most heavily exaggerated in the industry.

The BCs on the ELDs are not exaggerated. They are doppler radar derived and they list the 3 bands below.
https://www.hornady.com/support/ballistic-coefficient

I have not shot the 178 ELD yet but shot a lot of the 178 AMAX and 178 BTHPs and the BCs held true on those and accuracy was excellent. I would think nothing else of the ELD-Ms from the other bullets in the line I have shot.

 

[JMGlasgow]

I've shot all of the bullets you listed except Nosler in my Savage 308. I've given up on Nosler after trying it in all my rifles, and they don't shoot well in any of them. Hornady is the clear winner in ease of finding a great accuracy load, price and consistency. I just shot a no joke 3 shot group at 100 yards that measued 1/4 moa, with other groups shooting around 1/2. I'm not saying I can shoot that all day every day, I just had a good outing and was impressed. This factory barrel has over 6500 rounds through it, and I was thinking for sure the barrel was shot out. Turns out I got another bad lot of Barnes MatchBurners. I have also switched powders to RL15 over IMR4064, the rifle seems to like it better overall.

 

[Dave62677]

I did two 3/8 moa 5 shots group in the row for 178 eldx. 43.5 varget and 0.010 jam. Primer a little flat but no heavy bolt lift.

 

[AZgeek]

I did two 3/8 moa 5 shots group in the row for 178 eldx. 43.5 varget and 0.010 jam. Primer a little flat but no heavy bolt lift.

I can confirm similar results with the 178 ELDx. 43.2 or 43.3 of Varget seems to be the sweet spot in my testing. In my guns, this bullet shot best close to SAMMI with a COAL of 2.805. Based on bullet splash on steel 43.3gr stays stable out to 1200 yards out of a 24" barrel. Since this is a hunting bullet as well, its now the only .308 bullet I use.

 

[gunsnjeeps]

Buy some of each and see how your rifle does with them. The only ones I've shot are the SMK's in M118LR. From service rifle competition I've heard the Noslers are temperamental by lot. One may be good the next not. I have shot Berger's in 5.56 for one long range match. They shot as well as a 5.56 at 1K will do. Have Sierras underperformed or are you looking to see if something may shoot better? I'd try Berger first.

 

[gigamortis]

About a year ago, I ran out of the 175 Amaxes which performed very well for me and performed pretty close to their advertised BC. I switched to the Berger 175 OTM bullet when the newly announced Hornady ELDs couldn't be found yet. The Berger 175 OTM is now my go to bullet. It was easy to tune due to its tangent ogive and it has a better BC than the Amax. It has a shorter bearing surface than the 175 Amax and my accuracy node came in 60 fps faster at 2730 fps with less pressure signs than my Amax load. This Berger is a solid a .25 moa bullet when I do my part. Sure, they cost more, but being a tangent ogive bullet, it shouldn't require much retuning at all as my barrel throat wears.

 

[z7.jled]

I'm interested in using my M24 in tactical division just for fun; I've used 175SMK's since ....

Hornady 178 ELD- I'd like to hear anything anyone has to say on this as well. Hornady quality across the line seems pretty solid, but from what I've ready, their BC's are sometimes the most heavily exaggerated in the industry.

Let me hear your input on these bullets.

I have shot s few hundred 178ELD-M through my 308. 24" barrel I get 9.9 mils to 1000 yds. They are as accurate for me as the 175smk and load development was easy, no seating depth tests, I had a wide node and picked a middle load

The Published BC works in trasol with 1st round cold clean bore hits at 600 yds and good elevation calls at 1000, I just suck at doping the wind

I am using 44g of varget in Winchester brass, Cci br2 .005" or so off the lands, I set seating depth to not jam into the lands and left it, getting 2700fps if I work backwards from the dope (no chrono)

They are accurate and shoot flat for a 308

As accurate as my 175smk with better Bc's


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Conrad]

Getting 2750 fps with low SD with the 178 ELDX from 22" Desert tech barrel. Shoots under 1/2 MOA. Haven't taken it to 1000 yet but good elevation at 700 yards and was smacking a 4" plate at 525.

 

[DP425]

Looks like the BC discrepancies from Hornady are the older bullets.

I'll order up some of the 178's and see what they do. Looks like a lot of happy customers so far. The SMK's have clearly been eclipsed; I need to take advantage of that.

 

[Eric32]

Be aware of the speed limit for the tactical division, if you happen to get serious about it.

2.2.1.2 7.62 NATO/.308 Winchester has a bullet weight cap of 178 grains and muzzle velocity cannot exceed 2,800 fps.

just so you don't buy the 155gr and try to run them at 3K

 

[Chaseerickson12]

I have shot both the 178 eldm and 175rdf. Both are great I have shot both at range Eld to 1200 and rdf to 1000. Both rounds are capable of under 10mil elevation to 1k. I like the RDF the most because they are cost effective. You can find a box 100 for $19 vs. ELD $32.. Trigger time Trigger time.. Make sure you run a G7 it's been accurate. The RDF and 44.8gr varget get me 2700fps 21.5in barrel

 

[Rob01]

I have shot both the 178 eldm and 175rdf. Both are great I have shot both at range Eld to 1200 and rdf to 1000. Both rounds are capable of under 10mil elevation to 1k. I like the RDF the most because they are cost effective. You can find a box 100 for $19 vs. ELD $32.. Trigger time Trigger time.. Make sure you run a G7 it's been accurate. The RDF and 44.8gr varget get me 2700fps 21.5in barrel

Where you finding the 175 RDF for $19/100? Just did a search and cheapest I found them was $28.99. You buying blems?

 

[Chaseerickson12]

Where you finding the 175 RDF for $19/100? Just did a search and cheapest I found them was $28.99. You buying blems?

I'm buying blem. They are just repackaged they look perfect.. also a bunch of us in the nwprl run the blem 175rdf

 

[Tango down]

OP, almost same here, recently got a few thousands of 175 SMK as a gift, so shooting these for now, good bullets anyway but...was sending Hornady 178 AMAX as go-to bullets for years in a TRG 22 308, great results. When 178 AMAX got terminated, tried 178 ELD-M but it didn't work as well as the AMAX in my rifle. Among other bullets, tried Berger 175 OTM and...bingo, especially far away (800+)! Purchased a few more boxes of these to establish dope up to 1200 and that's when the gift of a few thousands 175 SMK arrived as the party pooper but Hey...not complaining, cool gift!
Your rifle may like something else but that's my experience with these bullets. Used 43.5 Varget with both 175 SMK/178 AMAX and 44.5 with 175 OTM.
Good luck!

 

[gigamortis]

OP, almost same here, recently got a few thousands of 175 SMK as a gift, so shooting these for now, good bullets anyway but...was sending Hornady 178 AMAX as go-to bullets for years in a TRG 22 308, great results. When 178 AMAX got terminated, tried 178 ELD-M but it didn't work as well as the AMAX in my rifle. Among other bullets, tried Berger 175 OTM and...bingo, especially far away (800+)! Purchased a few more boxes of these to establish dope up to 1200 and that's when the gift of a few thousands 175 SMK arrived as the party pooper but Hey...not complaining, cool gift!
Your rifle may like something else but that's my experience with these bullets. Used 43.5 Varget with both 175 SMK/178 AMAX and 44.5 with 175 OTM.
Good luck!

I went from the 178 Amax to the Berger 175 OTM just as you did. The Amax and the Berger are both 1/4 MOA loads in my rifle. The tangent ogive of the Berger is very similar to the 175 SMK, but its boat tail is longer which shortens up the bearing surface while improving the BC. The Berger 175 OTM was very easy to tune for me. I view these Bergers as a SMK on steroids!

 

[JMGlasgow]

I'm having the same results with the 178 ELDM bullets. My rifle doesn't like them at all. The A-Max shot way better.

 

[ubet]

I never have liked hornadys bullets. Tried a box of the amax in a 5r 700, they shot like bowling pins. Berger, sierra or lapua for me.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

 

[dttheliman]

Buy some of each and see how your rifle does with them. The only ones I've shot are the SMK's in M118LR. From service rifle competition I've heard the Noslers are temperamental by lot. One may be good the next not. I have shot Berger's in 5.56 for one long range match. They shot as well as a 5.56 at 1K will do. Have Sierras underperformed or are you looking to see if something may shoot better? I'd try Berger first.

All the Nosler comments are right - I cannot get them to shoot accurately in anything 556 or 308 they are now my "Hey kids you wanna go shooting .... here shoot these out" rounds - SMK's , Bergers, and Hornady A-Max in 308 - great results with ELD-M's in 6.5 and 260 Rem.

 

[Canuck1977]

Hi all,

anybody tried those Berger 175gr OTM in a 1/12 twist barrel? My AIAT likes the 185gr juggs alot but a no go for tactical division.

it will not shoot the Hornady 178gr BTHP!

Cheers to all

 

[squib-load]

I found that the RDF 175s had horrible lot to lot issues and within lots even. I had one lot of blems from shooters pro shop where there were 2 distinctly different swaged bullets which had a tangent/secant curve that was .010 thou further up the bullet.. so seating them and touching lands they were .010 thou different.

in 3 lotts I had one 1586 lot where these bullets were mixed.. nightmare

on lot 1600 where they were all 'long' curve .. ie seated deeper.. and one lot... cant remember the number .. but all 'short'

even the lots that were homoginous could not find a node or grouping .030 off the lands from 42 to 45 grains of 4064...

they are garbage..

my barrel on holes 168 smk, hornady and berger .. and shoots 1/2 or better 175 smk

Shooters pro shop sells them as cosmetic issues only will not effect performance .. well that was a lie.. and when I called and said that I have all this data that shows there are 2 different bullets comming off the line they did nothing about it.. even sent in exemplars and never heard back. they must be aware since lot 1586 they were mixed and later lots they were segregated but obviously they have die issues and hence the inconsistency many are finding with them.

my other post explains a bit better but basically I used comaritros from .30 down to .22 all the way up the secant/tangent of the bullets and they produced 2 seperate groups where they measured base to comparitor off by .10 +/1 a thou all the way up... and they touched lands my barrels off by exactly that as well.. even though BTO with the 30 comparitor were almost identical so the die is off somewhere just above the ojive in the hybrid radius between sectant/tangent junction more likely. If I was still in the service I could have taken them to the NDI shop and run them under a laser comparitor to hightlight the diffs but I am out now...