F T/R Competition 308 ft/r go to bullet?

[diderr]

I'm having a 308 being built as we speak. It's going to be a practical rifle, as well as an f-class rifle. Now I've decided on few components for my load I know I'm going to be using Lapua brass, BR2's, and Varget. The last thing I have yet to decide is my bullet. I know I want either Sierra MK 155 or 175. I might eventually work up both, but what should be my primary go to bullet for 600 and 1k matches? I'm going to launch them out of a Bartlein 5r with a 1 in 10, and it's going to be 22" from the recoil lug. I'm not going to be hunting with this rifle, so "knock down power" will not be an issue. Thanks!

 

[Beepy]

I have been working on this as well. I actually use a 208gr Amax! It stays in the F class T/R rules, and cheats the wind alot better. In fclass you have a known distance, the biggest thing you need to worry about is wind, it doesnt matter that you have the rifle setup like a mortar, the range doesnt change......

That 208gr Amax also stays supersonic past 1,200 yards if the muzzle velocity is above 2,500 fps. I worked up a load using Reloader 17....

 

[diderr]

I was also looking at r17, but it is more temp sensitive than Var. I think the heaviest ever I want to go in the 308 is 185; probably a Berger Hybrid. I have nothing against heavy bullets; I shoot 210 bergers in my 300wsm with good results.

 

[diderr]

well, I was playing with JBM and the 155 @ 2850 has 8.3 moa of wind in a 10mph. the 175 @ 2600 is 8.5 moa. Berger 185 target hybrid @ 2500 is 7.1 moa. 208 amax @ 2400 is 6.6 moa. 210 berger @ 2400 is 6.6moa Interesting.

 

[gstaylorg]

diderr,
You might also want to take a look at the Berger 175 gr Tactical bullet. Very forgiving to load and has a better G7 BC that the SMK 175. I have used these loaded by Applied Ballistics for both 600 yd and 1000 yd F-Class matches and they perform extremely well. Based on the barrel length you mentioned (22"), I think the biggest issue you will have to deal with is getting enough MV to reach out to 1000 yd. As long as you can push something in the 175 gr size bracket around 2700 fps or so, you ought to be fine.

 

[diderr]

I've had superb luck with Bergers have only tried the tangent ogive type, but now that they're $15 more a box than the Sierras I think twice. I know they have tight tolerances and uniform meplats, but I might just weight sort and buy a meplat uniforming tool. I plan on doing ALOT of shooting once this gun is finished and the added cost will add up.

 

[HighRez]

You might also consider the Hornady 178 BTHP Match. I'm working up a load right now using that bullet and Varget. I just returned from the range, and 45 gr. of Varget gave me 1/3 MOA vertical at 300 yards. Horizontal was about a MOA .... I'll work on that with seating. Cost of the Hornady's is substantially less than the Bergers and you can still find them these days.

 

[diderr]

You might also consider the Hornady 178 BTHP Match. I'm working up a load right now using that bullet and Varget. I just returned from the range, and 45 gr. of Varget gave me 1/3 MOA vertical at 300 yards. Horizontal was about a MOA .... I'll work on that with seating. Cost of the Hornady's is substantially less than the Bergers and you can still find them these days.

I def. will give Hornady's a thinking. What is youre standard deviation in weight?

 

[HighRez]

I def. will give Hornady's a thinking. What is youre standard deviation in weight?

Usually about 20 pounds depending on the time of year.

Otherwise I'm not sure if I'm following you. If you're speaking of bullet weight, I have no idea. I open the box, load 'um and choot 'um.

 

[diderr]

Usually about 20 pounds depending on the time of year.

Otherwise I'm not sure if I'm following you. If you're speaking of bullet weight, I have no idea. I open the box, load 'um and choot 'um.

yeah, sorry. I meant bullet weight.

 

[HighRez]

yeah, sorry. I meant bullet weight.

No problem. I haven't been doing this long ... only a couple of years. One thing I've learned about reloading is to carefully select the rabbits I want to chase. Otherwise, I'd drive myself crazy. Sorting bullets by weight ain't one of them. I figure Berger, Hornady and Sierra can build a better bullet than I can shoot anyway.

 

[5R Milspec]

Have ya'll thought about the 200gn hybrid,I think the numbers a pretty good for 1000.I even worked up a load with 4064 at 2520fps from my rifle.Only 7.5 moa in a 10mph wind,and 36.5 for elevation for a 1000 yards. 24" barrel

 

[cmh2007]

I like my Lapua Scenars.

 

[esromvre]

diderr,
You might also want to take a look at the Berger 175 gr Tactical bullet. Very forgiving to load and has a better G7 BC that the SMK 175. I have used these loaded by Applied Ballistics for both 600 yd and 1000 yd F-Class matches and they perform extremely well. Based on the barrel length you mentioned (22"), I think the biggest issue you will have to deal with is getting enough MV to reach out to 1000 yd. As long as you can push something in the 175 gr size bracket around 2700 fps or so, you ought to be fine.

These shot well for me but you are looking at a 22 inch barrel not giving you a advantage in the F-Class relm at all.

I am hoping to find any bullet that will make up for my mistakes..LOL

 

[Whiskey Tango Foxtrot]

I def. will give Hornady's a thinking. What is youre standard deviation in weight?

Iwas using Hornaday 178s but when I started weighing them they were up to +/- a full grain.
Went to Bergers and stoped having to sort.

 

[HighRez]

Iwas using Hornaday 178s but when I started weighing them they were up to +/- a full grain.
Went to Bergers and stoped having to sort.

You guys have caused me to think about variation in bullet weight and my willingness to just accept what's in the box. So I did a very un-scientific test over coffee this AM by weighing 20 bullets each from what I have on hand.

Hornady 178 BTHP Match 177.8 - 178.3 gr.
Sierra 175 Match King 174.7 - 175.3 gr.
Berger 185 Juggernaut 184.9 - 185.1 gr.

Obviously the Bergers are way more consistent. But is there a real world effect on trajectory with the .5 gr variation of the SMK's and Hornady's? I went to JBM's calculator which allows 1/10 gr variation in bullet weight and entered the high and low weights for the SMK, which has the lowest BC of the 3. JBM says no difference in trajectory at all to the 10th of a MOA out to 1,000 yards.

It's an interesting discussion, but it seems to me to be a matter of confidence in what you're shooting. I know that does make a difference.

 

[30SMK]

You guys have caused me to think about variation in bullet weight and my willingness to just accept what's in the box. So I did a very un-scientific test over coffee this AM by weighing 20 bullets each from what I have on hand.

Hornady 178 BTHP Match 177.8 - 178.3 gr.
Sierra 175 Match King 174.7 - 175.3 gr.
Berger 185 Juggernaut 184.9 - 185.1 gr.

Obviously the Bergers are way more consistent. But is there a real world effect on trajectory with the .5 gr variation of the SMK's and Hornady's? I went to JBM's calculator which allows 1/10 gr variation in bullet weight and entered the high and low weights for the SMK, which has the lowest BC of the 3. JBM says no difference in trajectory at all to the 10th of a MOA out to 1,000 yards.

It's an interesting discussion, but it seems to me to be a matter of confidence in what you're shooting. I know that does make a difference.

Sierra has a weight variance allotment of +- .3 grains for their SMK's so you shouldn't find more variance than that. I do not think there is anything to worry about with that little amount of weight variation, and their are probably much more important things to worry about.

I get kind of technical but my thoughts are spend less time reloading and more time shooting, if I wanted to nitpick about every little thing I would be shooting benchrest not F-Class.

 

[HighRez]

Sierra has a weight variance allotment of +- .3 grains for their SMK's so you shouldn't find more variance than that. I do not think there is anything to worry about with that little amount of weight variation, and their are probably much more important things to worry about.

I get kind of technical but my thoughts are spend less time reloading and more time shooting, if I wanted to nitpick about every little thing I would be shooting benchrest not F-Class.

I totally agree. That's the reason I open the box, load 'um and choot 'um.

 

[George63]

if you weigh enough bullets from any company you will eventually find the "oops" that is a few grains off and will affect point of impact - eliminating the outlier would be the logical reason for checking - but of course once you are checking anyway the "illogical" sorting into categories creeps in

checking bullets for base to ogive and bearing length also holds some logic - again eliminating the outlier is the main benefit but once you are checking the tendency is to sort

the main problem is that proving or disproving the merits of controlling the many factors affecting long distance consistency would require absolute control to manipulate only one variable at a time and collecting a lot of data on each variation - this kind of testing never actually occurs so the shooter is left with hunches, guesses and legends to help with decisions on what is worth checking

 

[Whiskey Tango Foxtrot]

You guys have caused me to think about variation in bullet weight and my willingness to just accept what's in the box. So I did a very un-scientific test over coffee this AM by weighing 20 bullets each from what I have on hand.

Hornady 178 BTHP Match 177.8 - 178.3 gr.
Sierra 175 Match King 174.7 - 175.3 gr.
Berger 185 Juggernaut 184.9 - 185.1 gr.

Obviously the Bergers are way more consistent. But is there a real world effect on trajectory with the .5 gr variation of the SMK's and Hornady's? I went to JBM's calculator which allows 1/10 gr variation in bullet weight and entered the high and low weights for the SMK, which has the lowest BC of the 3. JBM says no difference in trajectory at all to the 10th of a MOA out to 1,000 yards.

It's an interesting discussion, but it seems to me to be a matter of confidence in what you're shooting. I know that does make a difference.

And then there is this variation in meplats that sent me over the edge...

 

[HighRez]

And then there is this variation in meplats that sent me over the edge...

If you ain't careful you'll develop a nervous twitch and mumble unintelligible jibberish when you go to the loading bench.

 

[Whiskey Tango Foxtrot]

Yep.. My comfort zone is about a 5 on the anal retentiveness scale

 

[XTR]

Meplats don't bother me, I point everything I shoot to 1000 yards. After they've been thought the pointer they all look about alike. For 600 in I'll load and shoot but to 1000 I point them all.

Now, my go to bullet this year may end up being what ever 308 that I can find that I can get to 1000 super sonic. (wonder if a 168 Berger hunting VLD will make it?) I had an epiphany last night sitting here in my motel I realized that my assumption 3 months ago, when I was ordering all my reloading supplies for this yr, that I had enough bullets to last the yr was wrong. It was based on thinking that I had 1000 178s on the shelf along with my supply of 185s. In my ruminations last evening it occurred to me that I've only got 2 boxes of 178s, and that I must have shot up more than I recalled last yr. Now just after I solved my primer shortage this shortage stuff if biting me in the arse again.

 

[BumRush6]

My 308 has a 20" 1in10 twist. Grouping @ 100 yds 168 Sierra HPBT's shoot best. But they don't hold up as well out to 1000. Once I get past 300 yds I get the best results with 175 Sierra HPBT's. I also have good results with Hornady 178 HPBT's for long range. But again, nothing shot better inside of 300 than the 168's so I keep two loads depending on what I'm shooting at.

 

[XTR]

Sierra 168s wont shoot to 1000, that's been proven time and time again, the BC is just too low and they are erratically unstable when they go transonic.

 

[Blue Streak]

I received some good advice from right here on the Hide regarding 185 bergers and Varget. In my last 1000 yard match I shot a 99 on my last string of 10. Pretty good for a hack like me. I don't neck turn, point, weight bullets, brass, etc...I already spend too much time reloading and not enough time shooting.

I only shoot once fired Lapua brass out to 1000 with 185 Berger Hybrids and Varget. I have a 1:11 Krieger 4 groove s/s 28" barrel. Velocity is around 2725 fps. The load is pretty stout and close to the upper limit for my rifle.

For practice, mid range matches, and for fire forming brass I use the less expensive 175 SMKs and Varget.

 

[chefcam864]

I wonder if 155's are even a viable option for 1k out of a 22" bbl? I know intl. Palma shooters use them, but that's only because they have to. They also launch them at close to 3,000fps out of 30-32" bbl's. anybody have any input on whether or not 155's will work at 1k with such a short bbl?

I do like the Sierra Palma bullet very much, and am going to use it to shoot a 300 yard F-TR match in April. The difference in recoil from a 190 CC is substantial.

 

[stealthgoat]

Meplats don't bother me, I point everything I shoot to 1000 yards. After they've been thought the pointer they all look about alike. ....

While I know a 175SMK point isn't the weakest link in MY shooting, now I will think about this when I throw an uncalled 7 out there ; - )

 

[memilanuk]

I wonder if 155's are even a viable option for 1k out of a 22" bbl? ...anybody have any input on whether or not 155's will work at 1k with such a short bbl?

I have a load worked up in one of my 'shorty' rifles... a Savage 10PC-SR w/ 20" tube... S155MKs over I4895, running about 2840-2850fps. Not exactly what I'd call a go-to load for 1000, but I wouldn't consider a 20-22" gun as a go-to rifle for that kind of distance either. For mid-range F-class, it should work acceptably.