Range Report .308 load critique/help

[pickpick]

I have been testing some loads for my DPMS LR308. It has the 18' bull barrel, 10 twist, RRA 2stage trigger, Nikon Buckmaster 4-14x40md, Burris rings, Midwest Px stubby mags, and PRS. I'm wanting to take it to a 600 yrd f-class match on the 22nd. I've loaded some 168's and 155's in SMK. I'm wanting to run Varget since that is the powder I use in my bolt 308 and bolt 223. I've not ran them through a chrony yet. I'm looking for the accuracy first. Here is what Im getting. 300yrd groups, the 168 on the grid target is a six shot group. The rest are five shot groups. All of the grid targets are shot with Varget not IMR 4064. Thanks for any help/advice .

 

[SnkBit]

Re: .308 load critique/help

the vertical dispersion on the 155 with 44gr load is by far the best.

 

[pickpick]

Re: .308 load critique/help

Does it look like I should try and run the 155's faster? And maybe slow the 168's down. I started my bolt gun 168 loads through it. Which is 45.7 varget, 168smk, and it was way too hot. I don't have any experience loading 155's. So, I don't know if they like to run fast or not. Help please.

 

[SnkBit]

Re: .308 load critique/help

Honestly, it looks like there are some marksmanship issues that need to be worked out prior to putting a bunch of effort into load development. And don't think that I'm trying to knock you down because I'm right there with you. I would load the 44gr with the 155's and work on my fundamentals for a while. Then you can come back and fine tune the load when your more consistent on the shooter end. That's the realization I have come to with my loads as well. I'm shooting 168's over 44gr of Varget. Is there more accuracy in the load, probably, but I can't shoot consistent enough to be comparing minute differences in loadings.

 

[pickpick]

Re: .308 load critique/help

I totally agree that I need some training. I've never shot as good a group as the 44 grain 155's before with this rifle. I have shot a better group with the 168's but, it was through a bolt gun. I'm hoping to find a load for the 168's since that is what I have the most. This ten twist gas gun may not like 168's. I've read through the 308 reload section and it looks like most of the loads are either the 155's or 175's. I've never done load testing at 300. I've always done it at 100yrds. 300yrds magnifys my lack of training. Thanks for the help.

 

[SnkBit]

Re: .308 load critique/help

I would do the same for the 168's. Just pick a load with a decent velocity to start with and just shoot it until your'e consistent. Then you can start to tune that load and your efforts will be far more rewarding.

 

[MALLARD]

Re: .308 load critique/help

i would probably focus on the 168 because your twist is better suited for it. hodgdon website says 45.9 max load ,but sierra has 43.4 max load for imr4064 168 bullet , sierra has the max load with 155gr around 45.5 ,hodgdon is on the hot side in my opinion , i think sierra load data is pretty good, so you could try increasing it alittle , but that load is for a bolt gun. You are suppose to reduce the charge when its a gas gun. Are you seeing signs of pressure ? What kind of reloading tools are you using ?

 

[BOLTRIPPER]

Re: .308 load critique/help

ok...you're making paper....my thoughts are you are shooting to the ability of your gear..read to shake out any better groups.... you would need a better class of optics and a better trigger with bench rest type of let off......

 

[pickpick]

Re: .308 load critique/help

Mallard, I started with my bolt gun loads of 45.7 varget behind the 168's and it was way too hot. I backed of to 42 and 42.5 gr of varget and it shot pretty bad at 100. I loaded 43.0 and it grouped way better at 100 yrds. So, I tried those loads at 300 and they were okay, but not what I was hoping. I loaded the 43.2grn loads of varget and it sucked at 300 yrds. I loaded the 44.0grn loads under the 155's just to see if they liked to go faster. I think I will try some .2 grain increments on the 155's, starting at 44.0. I sure wish I could figure out a load for the 168's though.

Boltripper, thanks for the input. I'm working with bottom of the barrel stuff as far as f-class is concerned. I've competed in this same match, only three times prior to this coming one. I ran my bolt gun in the ftr class. I was just going to compete with this rifle to see if it would be any better. But, if I cant find a recipe for the reloads by Tuesday, any better than I have, I think I better leave it at home. I can't justify upgrading the optics(it has a Nikon 4-14x40 buckmaster) or a trigger(it has a RRA 2stage in it) with this rifle, it rides in the back seat of my truck in case of coyote or deer sightings. If I get to were I can make more than 50% of the matches, I may get a dedicated rifle just for it.

Are gas guns really this much more difficult to find a reload for than bolt rifles?

 

[doc76251]

Re: .308 load critique/help

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pickpick</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Are gas guns really this much more difficult to find a reload for than bolt rifles? </div></div>

No but they ARE that much more difficult to drive correctly.

Cheers,

Doc

 

[pickpick]

Re: .308 load critique/help

That's what I've heard. I don't know why I think I can shoot better with this rig when I haven't master the bolt guns I already have. Just giving it a go.

 

[pickpick]

Re: .308 load critique/help

Here are the 100yrd targets.

The bottom target is 168's too.

The 4064 does better. Is there not a way to tweak the varget to get the same results, or does this have something to do with burn rate and the effects it has on a gas system?

 

[doc76251]

Re: .308 load critique/help

Looking at your targets this ain't got nothing to do with your loads it has to do with your pre-load on the bipod and your breathing.

That or you are hunting the targe "I see it, I don't, I see it, I don't, I see it, sqqueezze I don't (guess) bang:.

Cheers,

Doc

 

[pickpick]

Re: .308 load critique/help

Damn your good. How can you tell that from my targets? I was using the 1" grid target for my 300 yrd test and, you're right, the black center would disappear behind the cross hairs, with mag set at 14, then i would see it again, then I wouldn't. I haven't had any training, only trying to do what I read to do on here. I can't seem to get away from work or home long enough for some real teaching. I hope I'm not as good as i'll ever be because I want to be a looooot better shot than I am now.

 

[doc76251]

Re: .308 load critique/help

Ummmmm, blind pig - truffle you know the story

Something you may have forgotten about scopes is that they will allow you not only to move the location of the bullet impact to the center of the cross hair but they will also let you move the location of the bullet impact to the point where you want it to go, even if that is not where the cross hair is.

If you can practice so that the vertical and horizontal stadia of your scope JUST touch the circle in both places (the circle will be in the top left quadrant) you can dial up 1/2" and left 1/2" and the bullet will go in the center of the target. More importantly it will give you a repeatable aiming point that you can use. JUST DON'T FORGET TO TAKE IT OFF when your done.

FWIW: I just about ALWAYS dial UP 3 MOA, or 1 Mil when shooting for groups. If you change the appearance of what you are shooting at you will not have the same POA when the bullet holes make your target bigger.

Or you could just use a bigger aiming point that you can quarter and dial off.

Cheers,

Doc

 

[pickpick]

Re: .308 load critique/help

I've never tried to "corner " my POA. I will give that a try. Also, I plan on giving myself a MOA aiming point the next time out. One inch at 300 is hard for me to see at 14 power, much less hold the same spot on it. And, are you saying use the same target with a few loads, just dial up, and have the same POA? Thanks for the replies. I'm soaking it in.

 

[doc76251]

Re: .308 load critique/help

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pickpick</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> And, are you saying use the same target with a few loads, just dial up, and have the same POA? Thanks for the replies. I'm soaking it in. </div></div>

No, I would just dial off my POA on my targets so that the boolets didn't screw up my sight picture by making the "aiming black" larger.

Not dinging you but I would be leery of working the knobs on a hunting type scope like that too much. Most cannot handle it. A couple of minutes might not be too bad but hunting scopes are not built to be turned a lot and most do not do what the knob says they will.

Cheers,

Doc

 

[pickpick]

Re: .308 load critique/help

Thanks Doc for staying with this subject and trying to help me. I'll do all of what you're suggesting, next time out. It's rainingthis morning, so it will be a day before I get back to my range. Thanks again.

 

[TDaly25]

Re: .308 load critique/help

I dont know if your completely wedded to the Varget or not. If you are open to other powders I have had some great luck with BL-c(2) under 168 A-Maxs in my Remington 5-R...

Hope it helps!

 

[pickpick]

Re: .308 load critique/help

Here is what I found today. I guess I'm going to forget the 168's, the 155's look like they'll shoot better than I can drive.
These are five shot groups, the bottom target is for size info. Doc, I cornered the POA like you said.

 

[doc76251]

Re: .308 load critique/help

Off the top of my head (read that internet diagnosis) I'd say that you are probably where you need to be with your loads. The problem you are having is with weapon control. Without watching you shoot I would hazard a guess that that rifle is bouncing all over the place. The more you shoot the more consistent your position becomes (or you get tired and relax some).

Try shooting a 5 shot string w/o coming off the gun. If it recoils straight back and you are still on target take the next shot. If it doesn't stay on target mentally interrogate yourself and see if you can figure out what changed. TAKE NOTES!!!

Then try taking EACH shot individually, as in get into position shoot and then stand up. Don't look at the target, just get up and then go back down and re build the position and shoot again. Take notes about what the gun felt like, where it stopped moving, how long you held your breath, how hard you pushed into the rifle w/ your shoulder, anything else you can quantify.

AR-10's are not easy to drive, they have three recoil impulses that you have to ride out. If your position is off just a bit it will toss your shot. Find a position that you can control and repeat.

Best guess.

Cheers,

Doc

 

[okiefired]

Re: .308 load critique/help

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MALLARD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i would probably focus on the 168 because your twist is better suited for it.</div></div>

Why would a faster twist (10 twist in .308)be better suited for a shorter bullet like the 168's than the long profile 155's and 175's? Even in my slower twist LTR (1:12), I have not found one situation or distance where the 168's will group as well as 178 Amax's....... and that goes for all my 308's from 10 to 12 twist. Havn't used a 168 of any kind in years.

okie

PS. Doc's giving good advice. The "10's" are hard to drive at first.

 

[SnkBit]

Re: .308 load critique/help

It looks like that rifle really likes those 155's with somewhere in the neighborhood of 44-44.5gr of powder behind them. Doc is giving really good advice. I would load them with a consistent 44gr and work on what Doc has said. After you get the rifle figured out a little better, then you can come back and do load workup between 44 and 44.5gr to find the loads sweet spot.

 

[SnkBit]

Re: .308 load critique/help

It looks like that rifle really likes those 155's with somewhere in the neighborhood of 44-44.5gr of powder behind them. Doc is giving really good advice. I would load them with a consistent 44gr and work on what Doc has said. After you get the rifle figured out a little better, then you can come back and do load workup between 44 and 44.5gr to find the loads sweet spot.

 

[pickpick]

Re: .308 load critique/help

Thanks all, for the helpfull advice. Extra thanks to you Doc, I appreciate it. I will load up several rounds of ammo and go to my range and work it out. I should stay practicing at 300 to be far enough for me to see the result of what I do wrong or right, true.? Thanks again.

 

[Dionis]

Re: .308 load critique/help

Try BL-C(2) 44.8 gr i had luck in my LR308 24"1-10

 

[SwatSgt]

Re: .308 load critique/help

If it helps any my DPMS LR-308 is the 24" version and shoots 168 SMK very well. 1/2" 5 round groups at 100 yds. I load 44 grns of Varget. I have had the same results with 168 AMax's as well using the same charge. I am wanting to try the 155's but I have not got to load any out yet even though I have had a box for over 3 months sitting on the top of the old gun safe.

 

[SwatSgt]

Re: .308 load critique/help

Sorry not at home but here is a link with a pic of one of my shot groups. Not sure which pic as the server I am on will not allow pics to be viewed but it should be a nice one. If you have anymore questions please feel free to PM me. I can shoot you more load info after I get home.

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthre...035#Post1899035

Good luck. If you can get the hang of it I know my LR-308 is one hell of a shooter for a factory gun.

 

[pickpick]

Re: .308 load critique/help

Took it to the 600 yard line at MSSA for the f-class match. Shot the 155smk on top of 44.5 of varget, loaded to 2.798 coal. I shot 92%, averaged 185 with 7 X's. I forgot to check the wind on some of the low numbers and plane flubbed the shot on the other low numbers. I'm going to call this a Sub MOA rifle and load, with the right guy behind it. I knew most of my bad shots were wrong when they left. I cant't blame the rifle or load. Thanks for the help guys.

 

[SnkBit]

Re: .308 load critique/help

Looks really good!