.308 loading issues.

[3-0-hate]

So I have been having these issues, independent it seems of which dies I use (I have tried Hornady, Lee and RCBS)

I have been noticing that the seating process is actually stripping away some of the copper jacket that I can actually fully separate with my thumbnail leaving me with a small copper ring of jacket material.. And the flip side to this is that the process is also leaving me with small rings in the bullet ogive. I have been toying with the idea of picking up some Redding competition seating dies, but I'm afraid that the problem lies elsewhere.

I have checked the diameter of the case mouth expander on the sizing die and it checked out ok. When I do trim, I use an RCBS 3-way cutting head on one of their Trim-Pro's. So everything is being chamfered as its being trimmed.

The issue on the .308 really is the copper ring I am able to extract from the bullet being shaved, as the ring is small and somewhat insignificant.. On my .223 though, the ring is much more pronounced, but no copper is being stripped off.

I am using a Dillon 550B, and I most always do my rifle loading on this machine as if it were a single-stage or turret press. I only use it as a progressive when I am loading plinking or handgun ammo.

Thanks for the help.. Here is a photo of what I am talking about.

 

[RyeDaddy]

Re: .308 loading issues.

I'd say the 3 way cutter is not chamfering enough, no? That's the only time I've seen the jacket shaving, when I didn't chamfer enough. The rings on the nose I've never worried about, I've had them with certain dies with certain bullets. Amax's and VLD's had that ring when seating with Redding dies, disn't seem to affect accuracy.

 

[George63]

Re: .308 loading issues.

if the shaved copper bothers you use a VLD inside chamfer bit, but what do you think this means compared to what the lands do to the bullet?

if the seating marks bother you use a bushing neck sizer at .002 tension and dry lube inside the neck

if it shoots fine the way it is why bother?

 

[3-0-hate]

Re: .308 loading issues.

But if it weren't, wouldn't the sizing die flare out the mouth enough? I mean I know that there will be a small amount of spring back (minimal) once its opened up but it shouldn't be enough to shave off some of the jacket though.. At least not in my own twisted mind.

Do you have a photo of what some of your brass looks like after chamfering?

Here are a couple more photos...

The inner cutting head that does the chamfering is non-adjustable.. The outer cutting head on the other hand is, but that shouldn't be causing these issues..

And here is the inside diameter of the case mouth after sizing..

ANY IDEAS? I'm at my wits end almost.

 

[jkonzal]

Re: .308 loading issues.

Get a K&M Tapered Case Mouth Reamer. They are awesome!!!

 

[3-0-hate]

Re: .308 loading issues.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: George63</div><div class="ubbcode-body">if the shaved copper bothers you use a VLD inside chamfer bit, but what do you think this means compared to what the lands do to the bullet?

if the seating marks bother you use a bushing neck sizer at .002 tension and dry lube inside the neck

if it shoots fine the way it is why bother? </div></div>

I will have to check out the VLD chamfer tool.. Its cheap enough to give it a try.

The ammo does shoot just fine. My whole thing is though, if Im trying to get every last bit of accuracy out of it, I want the end product to be as close to perfect as possible.

Thanks for the info.

 

[BirdEyes]

Re: .308 loading issues.

It looks like your 3-way cutting head needs adjustment. Are you using boat tail bullets? Try chamfering a few cases by hand and see if that resolves the issue. If so, adjust your cutter head in accordance with the instructions.

 

[RyeDaddy]

Re: .308 loading issues.

In your first pic in your original post the loaded rounds do not appear to have the same amount of outside chamfer as the other pic of the brass in your second post. It appears from the pic of the brass that you are outside chamfering too much, it shouldn't be a sharp knife edge when you touch the case mouth. You only need enough outside chamfer to remove any burrs if they're present. Maybe I'm seeing the pic wrong on my tiny iPhone screen, but it appears you should back off the outside cutter on the trimmer. I'm at work so I don't have any pics to share, but if nobody posts any I'll put some up when I get home late tonight(shift work's a bitch). Is it possible the the outside cutter is going in so deep that it's curling the edges inward from the pressure? Are you trimming before or after sizing? After I hope.

You probably already thought of the above, but that's all I can come up with:

The inside bevel looks ok to me, although a bit shallow on the angle but I wouldn't think that would cause the shaving, if trying a VLD chamfer tool by hand fixes it then there you have it.

Inside diameter of the case mouth shouldn't be 0.310" for a 308 Win after sizing, it should be 0.307" or smaller. What does your expander ball measure and what diameter bullets are you loading? How does a .310" case mouth hold a 0.308" diameter bullet, ya know?

 

[3-0-hate]

Re: .308 loading issues.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RyeDaddy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In your first pic in your original post the loaded rounds do not appear to have the same amount of outside chamfer as the other pic of the brass in your second post. It appears from the pic of the brass that you are outside chamfering too much, it shouldn't be a sharp knife edge when you touch the case mouth. You only need enough outside chamfer to remove any burrs if they're present. Maybe I'm seeing the pic wrong on my tiny iPhone screen, but it appears you should back off the outside cutter on the trimmer. I'm at work so I don't have any pics to share, but if nobody posts any I'll put some up when I get home late tonight(shift work's a bitch). Is it possible the the outside cutter is going in so deep that it's curling the edges inward from the pressure? Are you trimming before or after sizing? After I hope.

You probably already thought of the above, but that's all I can come up with:

The inside bevel looks ok to me, although a bit shallow on the angle but I wouldn't think that would cause the shaving, if trying a VLD chamfer tool by hand fixes it then there you have it.

Inside diameter of the case mouth shouldn't be 0.310" for a 308 Win after sizing, it should be 0.307" or smaller. What does your expander ball measure and what diameter bullets are you loading? How does a .310" case mouth hold a 0.308" diameter bullet, ya know? </div></div>

Thanks for the info and ideas. I am going to double check everything and try to adjust the cutter head. If I still end up with the copper shavings, I will give the VLD chamfer tool.. Seems like it wouldn't hurt to try it, they are only around $10 after all.

Thanks for the info guys.

 

[dbkonkle]

Re: .308 loading issues.

Easy fix for the ring on the bullet from seating is to remove the seating stem and use a bullet with some 2000 grit paper wrapped around it to deburr the edge of the seater. A quick twist or two is all that should be required. Follow the sandpaper up with another bullet with some polishing compound and the rings will be history.

 

[crazyjz]

Re: .308 loading issues.

This is an older thread so I will not waste much time on it. The answer to your second question has already been answered. Either contact your die mfg. and ask them to give you a new die stem or modify the one you have. Die manufacturers have been trying to find a way to accomodate both VLD and regular bullets for a long time. If you use a regular stem, meant to be used for regularly shaped bullets on a VLD bullet, the nose of the bullet will bottom out on the cone shaped seater die without supporting the sides of the bullet. Like trying to push a string in a straight line. You will experience excessive runout at the least. On the other side, if you use a VLD seater stem cone on a regular bullet, the steep secant will cause the sides of the bullet to become forced into the cone by the seating lever pressure that will leave a mark on the bullet, often near the ogive. I have not found this mark to be detrimental to accuracy but I cannot help but believe that runout would be easier to eliminate if the entire surface of the bullet were supported during the seating process. Besides, it's ugly!

Ok, the thin brass ring. Unless you are REALLY overdoing your brass prep, here is what I think is happening. I have seen this before and it may be happening in your case.

During "trim to length" operations, aside from the small shaving of brass that are cut off the cartride, there is also a small amount of brass that is being swaged into the inside and outside of the case mouth. This small ring is still attached to the case but is cut loose by the chamfering action done in preparation to loading. This thin ring will show up in the darndest places. If this is not the case, and you have already eliminated this as a possability, I apologize for the interruption.

 

[Deadshot2]

Re: .308 loading issues.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SVThuh</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
The inner cutting head that does the chamfering is non-adjustable.. The outer cutting head on the other hand is, but that shouldn't be causing these issues..

</div></div>

Yes it is. On the RCBS 3-Way trimmer the pilot, which creates the chamfer, is seated against an adjusting screw. Remove the head from the trimmer, slip the allen wrench down the center of the threaded stud and adjust away.

Also, invest in a mandrel type expander die. They do a straighter job with less size variation than the "ball" expander in most sizing dies.

BTW, check your caliper. At .310" bullets should not only slip in easily, they'd literally fall in.

 

[base]

Re: .308 loading issues.

i had the same problem with the ring on the bullet of my 308. unscrew the seating stem and you'll see a concave part at the end that actually seats the bullet. i too fine grit sand paper and sanded the edges til the rings were no more.

 

[uracowman]

Re: .308 loading issues.

Do you anneal your brass?