308 M118 175 and IMR 4895
- Thread starter shamanlcs
- Start date
Re: 308 M118 175 and IMR 4895
Um...
I would try 2.8 COAL and then load from 41 to 43 grains. Then I'd go make 100000000 of whichever grouped the best. If you want to shorten the COAL to make sure that they feed well then try 2.78.
Um...
I would try 2.8 COAL and then load from 41 to 43 grains. Then I'd go make 100000000 of whichever grouped the best. If you want to shorten the COAL to make sure that they feed well then try 2.78.
Re: 308 M118 175 and IMR 4895
Did you re-port your M-1A or is this OEM from SA?
IF, OEM get a recoil buffer(or 2)because you will be working that op-rod hard.
Respectfully,
LG
Did you re-port your M-1A or is this OEM from SA?
IF, OEM get a recoil buffer(or 2)because you will be working that op-rod hard.
Respectfully,
LG
Re: 308 M118 175 and IMR 4895
Probably more likely 41.0-43.0 of IMR as already suggested.
I think I ended up at 42.2 of mil-surp IMR to get the 2640fps out of a Garand, but don't have the chrono data stored on the laptop I'm using. Charge would vary for different lot numbers or new mfg anyway. OAL 2.82, LC LR brass.
Zediker says 41.5 of H4895 to get approx 2550fps.
http://www.zediker.com/downloads/m14.html
308 Garand Match Loads from Pacific Loading Manual of 1971:
This old manual has .308 Match loads for 168 grain and has loads for a Rem 40XB, NM M14, and .308 M1 Garand.
.308 M1 loads.
Case:LC 67 Match Primer: CCI #200
BULLET POWDER CHARGE VEL. GROUP SIZE
168 MATCH IMR 3031 41.0 2720 2"
168 " IMR 4895 44.0 2750 7/8"
168 " IMR 4064 42.0 2730 1 5/8"
168 " IMR 4320 44.0 2525 1/16"
168 " H-414 47.5 2680 3/8"
168 " Rx-11 41.0 2590 1 1/2"
Please remember that these loads are about 40 years old. The powders you buy today are probably NOT the same powder that was sold 40 years ago under the very same name and label.
Probably more likely 41.0-43.0 of IMR as already suggested.
I think I ended up at 42.2 of mil-surp IMR to get the 2640fps out of a Garand, but don't have the chrono data stored on the laptop I'm using. Charge would vary for different lot numbers or new mfg anyway. OAL 2.82, LC LR brass.
Zediker says 41.5 of H4895 to get approx 2550fps.
http://www.zediker.com/downloads/m14.html
308 Garand Match Loads from Pacific Loading Manual of 1971:
This old manual has .308 Match loads for 168 grain and has loads for a Rem 40XB, NM M14, and .308 M1 Garand.
.308 M1 loads.
Case:LC 67 Match Primer: CCI #200
BULLET POWDER CHARGE VEL. GROUP SIZE
168 MATCH IMR 3031 41.0 2720 2"
168 " IMR 4895 44.0 2750 7/8"
168 " IMR 4064 42.0 2730 1 5/8"
168 " IMR 4320 44.0 2525 1/16"
168 " H-414 47.5 2680 3/8"
168 " Rx-11 41.0 2590 1 1/2"
Please remember that these loads are about 40 years old. The powders you buy today are probably NOT the same powder that was sold 40 years ago under the very same name and label.
Re: 308 M118 175 and IMR 4895
Read your M1-A OPS manual and CALL SA and LISTEN to what they say about you choice of loads.
Do this BEFORE your range trip.
Cheers,
LG
Read your M1-A OPS manual and CALL SA and LISTEN to what they say about you choice of loads.
Do this BEFORE your range trip.
Cheers,
LG
Re: 308 M118 175 and IMR 4895
Finally got to range..Used 43.5 grains IMR 4895 with M118 Bullets pulled.
also 40 grains RL-15 on some Hornady 168 A-max.
Fired some 147 FMJ Sellier and Belliot factory loads.
First off I am pumped with my Gun,,It is a CMP kit.I have a previously owned SWFA variable 40X Scope with a Bassett mount..
Everything went great.One FTE out of 80 rds.
The SWFA was mounted on some rings when i got it and It took me a while to realize that the elevation and windage knobs were not in the normal locations because of the top ejection.
After that because my range time is limited At 200 yds I was in a 4" gropu ...Thanks for the help.
Finally got to range..Used 43.5 grains IMR 4895 with M118 Bullets pulled.
also 40 grains RL-15 on some Hornady 168 A-max.
Fired some 147 FMJ Sellier and Belliot factory loads.
First off I am pumped with my Gun,,It is a CMP kit.I have a previously owned SWFA variable 40X Scope with a Bassett mount..
Everything went great.One FTE out of 80 rds.
The SWFA was mounted on some rings when i got it and It took me a while to realize that the elevation and windage knobs were not in the normal locations because of the top ejection.
After that because my range time is limited At 200 yds I was in a 4" gropu ...Thanks for the help.
Re: 308 M118 175 and IMR 4895
The recipe for M118 match OR M852 match is:
LC brass ( match brass if you can find it ) but, LC has the same capacity.
41.5gr IMR 4895 and, my supermatch loves them loaded to 2.83 with the 175smk and cci primers.
You can use either bullet and, the bullet itself is the difference between M118 and M852. The charge weight was the same for both LC match loadings.
Don't know where that special ball paperwork came from but, I'd never load 44gr of IMR 4895 and shoot it though my supermatch. That's pretty hot.
The recipe for M118 match OR M852 match is:
LC brass ( match brass if you can find it ) but, LC has the same capacity.
41.5gr IMR 4895 and, my supermatch loves them loaded to 2.83 with the 175smk and cci primers.
You can use either bullet and, the bullet itself is the difference between M118 and M852. The charge weight was the same for both LC match loadings.
Don't know where that special ball paperwork came from but, I'd never load 44gr of IMR 4895 and shoot it though my supermatch. That's pretty hot.
Re: 308 M118 175 and IMR 4895
many people get M118, and M118LR confused... M118 wasn't a 175SMK... M118LR was
many people get M118, and M118LR confused... M118 wasn't a 175SMK... M118LR was
Re: 308 M118 175 and IMR 4895
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: force_multiplier</div><div class="ubbcode-body">many people get M118, and M118LR confused... M118 wasn't a 175SMK... M118LR was </div></div>
Yep. There was the LC white box match M118, the M118 special ball and, the M118LR and, they're all different.
I hated those 173gr bullets. The ass end of them was open and the lead was exposed partially. The consistancy wasn't that great with those FMJBT bullets. I belive that's the only reason M852 was so much better... it was a better made bullet.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: force_multiplier</div><div class="ubbcode-body">many people get M118, and M118LR confused... M118 wasn't a 175SMK... M118LR was </div></div>
Yep. There was the LC white box match M118, the M118 special ball and, the M118LR and, they're all different.
I hated those 173gr bullets. The ass end of them was open and the lead was exposed partially. The consistancy wasn't that great with those FMJBT bullets. I belive that's the only reason M852 was so much better... it was a better made bullet.
Re: 308 M118 175 and IMR 4895
actually... white box and special ball are the same... special ball was just at the end of the machinery's life cycle and inferior... the both used the same components, but by the time the name was changed, LR was being developed, and QC on the special ball was way down
actually... white box and special ball are the same... special ball was just at the end of the machinery's life cycle and inferior... the both used the same components, but by the time the name was changed, LR was being developed, and QC on the special ball was way down
Re: 308 M118 175 and IMR 4895
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: force_multiplier</div><div class="ubbcode-body">actually... white box and special ball are the same... special ball was just at the end of the machinery's life cycle and inferior... the both used the same components, but by the time the name was changed, LR was being developed, and QC on the special ball was way down </div></div>
Hmmm, I hadn't heard that before but, I have no reason to doubt you. I remember we used to get some of that from time to time from DCM back in the day and, like you said, it was about the end of when we were getting the freebies from them.
What I'm wondering now is where that paperwork above in the post came from? 41.5gr of IMR 4895 is about as hot as I'd ever shoot in my SuperMatch. 44gr of 4895 is HOT HOT HOT for an M1A with an op rod and, I've even pulled bullets in M118 and M852 match and found them to be 41.5gr on the scale.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: force_multiplier</div><div class="ubbcode-body">actually... white box and special ball are the same... special ball was just at the end of the machinery's life cycle and inferior... the both used the same components, but by the time the name was changed, LR was being developed, and QC on the special ball was way down </div></div>
Hmmm, I hadn't heard that before but, I have no reason to doubt you. I remember we used to get some of that from time to time from DCM back in the day and, like you said, it was about the end of when we were getting the freebies from them.
What I'm wondering now is where that paperwork above in the post came from? 41.5gr of IMR 4895 is about as hot as I'd ever shoot in my SuperMatch. 44gr of 4895 is HOT HOT HOT for an M1A with an op rod and, I've even pulled bullets in M118 and M852 match and found them to be 41.5gr on the scale.
Re: 308 M118 175 and IMR 4895
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jwoolf</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: force_multiplier</div><div class="ubbcode-body">actually... white box and special ball are the same... special ball was just at the end of the machinery's life cycle and inferior... the both used the same components, but by the time the name was changed, LR was being developed, and QC on the special ball was way down </div></div>
Hmmm, I hadn't heard that before but, I have no reason to doubt you. I remember we used to get some of that from time to time from DCM back in the day and, like you said, it was about the end of when we were getting the freebies from them.
What I'm wondering now is where that paperwork above in the post came from? 41.5gr of IMR 4895 is about as hot as I'd ever shoot in my SuperMatch. 44gr of 4895 is HOT HOT HOT for an M1A with an op rod and, I've even pulled bullets in M118 and M852 match and found them to be 41.5gr on the scale. </div></div>
Concur that Special Ball was the same as M-118 except primers were crimped.
Regarding the powder charge. Military bought powder by the box car load and did sampling to load by velocity. It is not the same powder as you buy in the store.
IMHO there is no reason to hot load an M1-A. Load 41.5 to 42.0 grains of IMR-4895 - whatever shoots the best in your barrel and go practice.
Good luck
Jerry
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jwoolf</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: force_multiplier</div><div class="ubbcode-body">actually... white box and special ball are the same... special ball was just at the end of the machinery's life cycle and inferior... the both used the same components, but by the time the name was changed, LR was being developed, and QC on the special ball was way down </div></div>
Hmmm, I hadn't heard that before but, I have no reason to doubt you. I remember we used to get some of that from time to time from DCM back in the day and, like you said, it was about the end of when we were getting the freebies from them.
What I'm wondering now is where that paperwork above in the post came from? 41.5gr of IMR 4895 is about as hot as I'd ever shoot in my SuperMatch. 44gr of 4895 is HOT HOT HOT for an M1A with an op rod and, I've even pulled bullets in M118 and M852 match and found them to be 41.5gr on the scale. </div></div>
Concur that Special Ball was the same as M-118 except primers were crimped.
Regarding the powder charge. Military bought powder by the box car load and did sampling to load by velocity. It is not the same powder as you buy in the store.
IMHO there is no reason to hot load an M1-A. Load 41.5 to 42.0 grains of IMR-4895 - whatever shoots the best in your barrel and go practice.
Good luck
Jerry
Re: 308 M118 175 and IMR 4895
I checked and re-checked the load, weighed it and measured.
I don't have the best scales and measures but ..After breaking down the weapon for cleaning ,no damage anywhere.
I have struggled trying to find a "good "load so I can reload a 1000 rds for stockpile.But Lee,Hornady,IMR,Hodegons,CMP Sniper Hide everybody has a different read on the "Max"
load..One max is another perfect load...
I think after this outing i will maybe change the COAL to 2.750 and load a bunch..Then go to fine tuning.
Thank you for your service.
I checked and re-checked the load, weighed it and measured.
I don't have the best scales and measures but ..After breaking down the weapon for cleaning ,no damage anywhere.
I have struggled trying to find a "good "load so I can reload a 1000 rds for stockpile.But Lee,Hornady,IMR,Hodegons,CMP Sniper Hide everybody has a different read on the "Max"
load..One max is another perfect load...
I think after this outing i will maybe change the COAL to 2.750 and load a bunch..Then go to fine tuning.
Thank you for your service.
Re: 308 M118 175 and IMR 4895
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jerry M</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
IMHO there is no reason to hot load an M1-A. Load 41.5 to 42.0 grains of IMR-4895 - whatever shoots the best in your barrel and go practice.
</div></div>
That's some good advice, I found that 40.5g was the g-spot for my supermatch lobing 175's at steel targets out to 1k. Haven't shot it at paper to check groups but it does excellent hitting 2moa size plates so far.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jerry M</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
IMHO there is no reason to hot load an M1-A. Load 41.5 to 42.0 grains of IMR-4895 - whatever shoots the best in your barrel and go practice.
</div></div>
That's some good advice, I found that 40.5g was the g-spot for my supermatch lobing 175's at steel targets out to 1k. Haven't shot it at paper to check groups but it does excellent hitting 2moa size plates so far.
Re: 308 M118 175 and IMR 4895
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bcrich</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jerry M</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
IMHO there is no reason to hot load an M1-A. Load 41.5 to 42.0 grains of IMR-4895 - whatever shoots the best in your barrel and go practice.
</div></div>
That's some good advice, I found that 40.5g was the g-spot for my supermatch lobing 175's at steel targets out to 1k. Haven't shot it at paper to check groups but it does excellent hitting 2moa size plates so far. </div></div>
Yep, I can make the 1000yd line just fine with 175gr SMK and 41.5 all day long so, for me, there's no reason to jack with changing things that may hurt the accuracy of my supermatch.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bcrich</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jerry M</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
IMHO there is no reason to hot load an M1-A. Load 41.5 to 42.0 grains of IMR-4895 - whatever shoots the best in your barrel and go practice.
</div></div>
That's some good advice, I found that 40.5g was the g-spot for my supermatch lobing 175's at steel targets out to 1k. Haven't shot it at paper to check groups but it does excellent hitting 2moa size plates so far. </div></div>
Yep, I can make the 1000yd line just fine with 175gr SMK and 41.5 all day long so, for me, there's no reason to jack with changing things that may hurt the accuracy of my supermatch.
Re: 308 M118 175 and IMR 4895
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: force_multiplier</div><div class="ubbcode-body">actually... white box and special ball are the same... special ball was just at the end of the machinery's life cycle and inferior... the both used the same components, but by the time the name was changed, LR was being developed, and QC on the special ball was way down </div></div>
I can't agree that they are "the same" The line at LC was slowed down when they produced 118 match. This produced better cases "match", and bullet seating. 118 special "ball" used Ball cases and was made at full production speed. The machines were not worn out. Never shot any SB that was close to white box when both were reasonably fresh. Trying to make "mexican match" out of SB by replacing the projo with a 168 sierra was a total waste of time.
You have to remember that they quit making white box as serious competition ammo around 1983. Any 118 Match worth being called that is 28 years old and the tar seal in the neck is hard as a rock so performance is poor. If torn down and reassembled it will shoot better. Even using the old trick of seating the bullet deeper to "crack" the seal will help.Using the 118 match load and the 175 Sierra is a good lick for M1As I wouldn't use LR its to hot in my opinion.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: force_multiplier</div><div class="ubbcode-body">actually... white box and special ball are the same... special ball was just at the end of the machinery's life cycle and inferior... the both used the same components, but by the time the name was changed, LR was being developed, and QC on the special ball was way down </div></div>
I can't agree that they are "the same" The line at LC was slowed down when they produced 118 match. This produced better cases "match", and bullet seating. 118 special "ball" used Ball cases and was made at full production speed. The machines were not worn out. Never shot any SB that was close to white box when both were reasonably fresh. Trying to make "mexican match" out of SB by replacing the projo with a 168 sierra was a total waste of time.
You have to remember that they quit making white box as serious competition ammo around 1983. Any 118 Match worth being called that is 28 years old and the tar seal in the neck is hard as a rock so performance is poor. If torn down and reassembled it will shoot better. Even using the old trick of seating the bullet deeper to "crack" the seal will help.Using the 118 match load and the 175 Sierra is a good lick for M1As I wouldn't use LR its to hot in my opinion.
Re: 308 M118 175 and IMR 4895
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jwoolf</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bcrich</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jerry M</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
IMHO there is no reason to hot load an M1-A. Load 41.5 to 42.0 grains of IMR-4895 - whatever shoots the best in your barrel and go practice.
</div></div>
That's some good advice, I found that 40.5g was the g-spot for my supermatch lobing 175's at steel targets out to 1k. Haven't shot it at paper to check groups but it does excellent hitting 2moa size plates so far. </div></div>
Yep, I can make the 1000yd line just fine with 175gr SMK and 41.5 all day long so, for me, there's no reason to jack with changing things that may hurt the accuracy of my supermatch.
</div></div>
41.5 is what I am using as well. I use 2.8-2.82 OAL as I load for an AR too I don't change my seating die.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jwoolf</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bcrich</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jerry M</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
IMHO there is no reason to hot load an M1-A. Load 41.5 to 42.0 grains of IMR-4895 - whatever shoots the best in your barrel and go practice.
</div></div>
That's some good advice, I found that 40.5g was the g-spot for my supermatch lobing 175's at steel targets out to 1k. Haven't shot it at paper to check groups but it does excellent hitting 2moa size plates so far. </div></div>
Yep, I can make the 1000yd line just fine with 175gr SMK and 41.5 all day long so, for me, there's no reason to jack with changing things that may hurt the accuracy of my supermatch.
</div></div>
41.5 is what I am using as well. I use 2.8-2.82 OAL as I load for an AR too I don't change my seating die.
