308 or 260 for younger shooters?

[coldboremiracle]

Er.....for children that shoot..... Ya, that sounds better.

So, I am building a rifle for my son. He will soon be of age to hunt big game in utah, and I would like to finish it with PLENTY of time for him to get good, proficient, and comfortable with it before the time comes. I've decided to go with the short barrel, 16 inches. I have considered The performance of both cartridges at that length, and I am okay with that. I chose these two calibers, because I already have one of each, and love both of them. As well as I have all the components for both.
Both cartridges have their pros and cons, Im kinda favoring the 260 because of the lighter bullet selection, even though both cartridges would be loaded light for him, until he got bigger of course.

So I was hoping you guys could talk me in one way or the other, perhaps one of you has done the same thing.
Thanks

 

[29aholic]

If you advance edit your thread you can edit the title

I would go 260 for less recoil

 

[bkw1911]

I'd definitely go 260. Never realized the recoil of a 308 til I went back to one after shooting 6.5s For a while. For hunting especially I've had far better luck with the 260 than I ever did hunting with a 308. You could get away with some lighter faster 308 bullets but I always had problems with the 308 no matter the bullet selection, I found it just too slow over all. Lots and lots of blood trailing and the actual wounds not that great. 260 even slow I've had excellent luck from coyotes up to mule deer. Drops em like a rock. And all the standard benefits of a flatter round with less wind drift if your kid has to take a 3-400yd shot.

 

[B Cart]

I hunt mule deer in Utah as well, and I just switched from hunting with a .308 to a .260. If you and your son will be mainly hunting mule deer and not elk, there are many benefits of a .260 over .308 for that role. As mentioned, your son will have lighter recoil and a more forgiving bullet when it comes to drop and wind affect. I would go .260

 

[MJY65]

If you advance edit your thread you can edit the title

Yes, please do that. No need to have an anti taking screenshots of the title page without the thread explanation.<script type="text/javascript" src="safari-extension://com.ebay.safari.myebaymanager-QYHMMGCMJR/b71f9caf/background/helpers/prefilterHelper.js"></script>

 

[MLC]

260 will always beat the 308 ballistically but for recoil concerns a 308 loaded with match bullets meant for the 30BR's would be a great way to learn without beating him up.
Then again 107 Sierras aren't so bad either.

 

[bunsen27]

I'd go .260Rem and reconsider going with the uber shorty 16" barrel. Your Son is still young and at the small size now, but what about in 3-5 years when he hits the teen growth spurt? I wouldn't go less than 20" and keep the rifle weight up as a lighter rifle recoils worse than a normal or heavy rifle. Case in point I started with a Rem 700 Mountain rifle (6.5lbs w/o scope) in .280Rem when I was 11-12 years old. Handloaded it kicked less than my Dad's .308Win and didn't bother me one bit. Now fast forward 20 years and I pulled it out of the safe to do some load development and re-zero it. The damn thing kicks like a mule after shooting my 10+ lbs 6.5mm comp guns.

 

[coldboremiracle]

Bunsen, by the time he is 15-16, the barrel will probably be shot out and ready for a new one.

 

[GhengisAhn175]

My vote is for a 308!
Well favored cartridge
can buy it In a jam at gun stores Vs a 260
(Say he runs out of ammo and needs to make a stop)
Learn about ballistics and wind before taking a wind cheating cartridge.
Take a fair amount of recoil
And appreciate a lighter recoil rifle and keep a 308 as his standard.

16" barrel + longer barrel life (he isn't gonna shoot it out vs a 260).

My younger brother is visiting me now. He's 16 and first time
Behind a 308 (16" semi auto) and a 260 (26" bolt gun).

He got scope kissed by my eotech magnifier because he didn't listen to me about position and proper buttstock weld, whereas the 260 he was
Fine all day.

Funny enough his shooting on the 260 was a bit better after learning on a 308



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[Flex686]

I know the thread title is intended to be humorous, but to outsider's, the ignorant, and the fearful it may well continue to perpetuate anti-2nd amendment sympathies..No need to ad fuel to that fire.

 

[coldboremiracle]

Very difficult choice, I want to go 260, but the .308 has so much virtue...

 

[Redmanss]

Neither. Like the old cadence goes, napalm...

And I think sarcasm is dead on the Hide. What the fuck...

 

[Redmanss]

And short barrel? Go with .308, but honestly I'd give him a 24" .260 instead for the ballistic advantage when it comes time to take that longer shot or even better 22" and suppress it. Aside from some scrub oak, there's not much brush busting to do. At least from where I grew up in Sanpete there wasn't and the rest of the state doesn't necessarily get any more dense.

 

[308220]

LOL'd at thread title. Good humor.

Now for a caliber. Id go with the 308. It has buttloads of knockdown power. Easy to load for and you can find ammo anywhere in a pinch. Sure, the 260 doesnt drop as much, but with modern tactical scopes, whos holding over? Adjust the turrets and shoot!

[MENTION=52069]bkw1911[/MENTION] Obviously you didnt make good hits with your 308. A smaller diameter bullet with less ft pounds of energy is never going to kill anything faster than a larger diameter bullet with more ft pounds of energy. Unless of course you hit the deer in the heart with the 260, and hit the deer in the ass with the 308.

 

[coldboremiracle]

The ammo availability is not a concern, I havent bought ammo from a store in probably 5 years. I roll my own, and will keep doing so.

 

[bkw1911]

LOL'd at thread title. Good humor.

Now for a caliber. Id go with the 308. It has buttloads of knockdown power. Easy to load for and you can find ammo anywhere in a pinch. Sure, the 260 doesnt drop as much, but with modern tactical scopes, whos holding over? Adjust the turrets and shoot!
[MENTION=52069]bkw1911[/MENTION] Obviously you didnt make good hits with your 308. A smaller diameter bullet with less ft pounds of energy is never going to kill anything faster than a larger diameter bullet with more ft pounds of energy. Unless of course you hit the deer in the heart with the 260, and hit the deer in the ass with the 308.

Perfect hits, rolled animals over, heart and lungs, but then they get up and run off. Berger hunting, accubonds, ballistic tips, not impressed with the results. Found all the deer and a few of the coyotes after extensive blood trailing and like I said the wounds were not impressive. I've used a 243, 223ai, 270, 7mm08, 260, and 6.5 creed besides the 308 for hunting and the 308 was by far the least impressive in hunting. The only load that worked ok was a ttsx 130gr going right around 3k but it still wasn't any better than the other calibers I was using.

 

[coldboremiracle]

Whoa there, I'll not stand for bad mouthing of the 308. I've rolled most of my best game with a .308, and without using all those spendy super bullets you describe. The .308 will do anything any of those other calibers you mentioned does, its all about the nut behind the trigger.

Lets not get off track...

 

[bkw1911]

Whoa there, I'll not stand for bad mouthing of the 308. I've rolled most of my best game with a .308, and without using all those spendy super bullets you describe. The .308 will do anything any of those other calibers you mentioned does, its all about the nut behind the trigger.

Lets not get off track...

Just my experience. I tried using it since folks said it worked well. Perhaps a cheap soft point wouldve done the trick but I got sick of it quick hence my 260 vote. My results there have been superb. $27 box of Hornady bthps (same load as my match load) have killed bear, deer and coyotes at all sorts of distances.

 

[PRDRIVER]

My DTA in .260 has noticeably less recoil than when running the .308 conversion. When my kids are ready for centerfire rifles, I will put them on the same caliber that I am shooting. Right now it is .260, though the .243 and 6 CM are sorely tempting me to make a switch.

 

[hahco]

hell, I'm a grown ass man and I still prefer an 18-20" barrel for hunting. My vote is for .260, and I wouldn't be afraid to go even "smaller" ...

I'm a .308 lover too, such an easy cartridge to reload and get accuracy out of. But it's got more recoil than necessary for the performance you get.

 

[308Gunner]

You can't go wrong with either one the 260 will recoil less and handloading will make it that much better, I would go with 308 but my son is 6 and weighs 65 lbs in 2 years he will be able to shoot my 308 after I take some spacers out of the stock. If recoil is your main concern as stated above a can or a good brake and the 260 will shoot like a 222.

 

[hollowoutadime]

Using an AI/AE .260. I take lots of prairie dogs with 100g Sierra Varminters. While it's not a light hunting rifle, my high school age daughters enjoy shooting that round (at paper). You can always move to 140g for whitetails. Put a brake on it and very little recoil. .243 is also great, but pretty close to a .260 (and since you have a .260)

 

[PRDRIVER]

I know you are wanting to build one up, but for the $ I would look at the new Tikka CTR in .260. 20" barrel, 10 round mags, great action, and if it is like the other Tikkas I have shot, it will be fantastic in the accuracy department. Plus is it threaded so you can easily run a brake or suppressor.

 

[kurt]

my 9 year old shot my 308 then i re barreled to a 6.5 creed and he told me dad your new gun has alot less punch and wants to shoot it as much as he can now.

 

[coldboremiracle]

That looks great Rob, but I'd have to cut it up to fit my requirements.

Back to the caliber question, Im not real worried about recoil. I can load both 308 and 260 quite light, and the boy is no stranger to recoil anyhow. Not that I want to pound on his shoulder though. I think a 308 with a soft 125gr load would be a fine starting point, as would a 95-100 gr 260 load. I guess it just comes down to choice, and I dont want my son to show up at his first match with a 308! Every body knows you go 6.5 or not at all.

 

[PRDRIVER]

How about we get you another SRS/Covert chassis (It doesn't get much more compact than that. A 26" .260 will be about the same overall length as a 16" barreled standard bolt gun.)? You already have all the conversions necessary to have a couple rifles together. My boys love shooting right now. If they want to attend comps with me when they are older, I would like them to be on the same platform/caliber that I am shooting if my funds allow.

As for the caliber, I shot .308 for 10 years before switching to .260. I loved shooting my .308. It's incredibly accurate and fun to shoot. I started shooting .260 about 4 years ago. Since then my .308 bolt rifle has managed to escape from the safe twice.

 

[GhengisAhn175]

.308 entry MAN caliber. All of us made choices into better
Calibers after we worked on the basic calibers where there's data for.

Why not have the young'un learn to make those calicluations then make a decision? After all, caliber choice is based on the person. He might end up liking more recoil and get magnum cartridges and never go lighter!


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[steve123]

260, the main reason being that your son will retain the intuition of where the bullet will strike in the wind. He won't have to relearn this later when he makes the change to 260 from 308 later on in life.

Plus the lower recoil will be nice for him.

 

[GhengisAhn175]

Steve, wouldn't the opposite hold true where he learns to read wind better when it's a bigger factor?


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[PRDRIVER]

A .308 is not as forgiving in the wind. Some like to practice with it as it makes it that much more important to read the wind. I just figure why handicap yourself if you don't need to. .260 all the way when the other choice is a .308.

 

[FCS]

260 - can learn to read wind just fine with a 6.5mm. If/when your son switches to a 308, he'll just need to factor in additional drift and drop. Lower recoil, easier for him to learn w/o developing bad habits. 260 over 308 for a younger shooter, 6 / 6.5 Creed wouldn't be bad choice either if you were open to another caliber.

One day, when my boy is a little older I'll probably start him on a 6/223 or 6.5 Grendel bolt rifle for his first centerfire that is of legal caliber for big game in NM. Once he has basics down with air rifle / 22 LR of course.

 

[steve123]

Steve, wouldn't the opposite hold true where he learns to read wind better when it's a bigger factor?


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If I want to have fun playing in the wind I have the air rifles, 22's and 223. They all blow in the wind a lot and some wind reading intricacies can be learned using them. When I attempt to shoot the 223 at longer distances I have to tell myself to more than double my wind hold compared to what I normally am used to using for long range. I really don't enjoy having to do that. If it's getting pretty windy I find hitting the same steel with the 223 vs the 6x47L frustrating (I don't use wind flags and mostly shoot in the forest service). In those same winds I can keep most shots on the steel with a 105 grainer going 3150 fps. With the 223 I'm missing most of the time and I'm not really learning anything at that point because a 1-2 mph change in speed or a change in direction means completely missing the steel.

When I want to get serious and hit something at long range I pick up my 6x47L, the cartridge that I've been shooting for 7 years now. Because it does so well in the wind to begin with, and since I'm on my 4th and 5th barrel now, I have developed a intuition of where to aim in the wind with that cartridge in combination with my favorite reticle. For the most part, "in my minds eye", for lack of a better way to describe it, the wind solution is right there back in the subconscious.

A little story...
A couple years ago we found out that the new kid who had gotten a job at the local gun store was one of Phoenix's top shooters in some type of long range paper match at Ben Avery. A friend invited him along to shoot our long range steel match. We were very intimidated to say the least. Since he was shooting in our squad
I got to watch what happened. The wind came up and he struggled horribly. He actually shot a respectable score at about halfway up the roster with his 308. He came back 3-4 times later on and shot a little better but just could not compete with the rest of us shooting 6.5's and 6's.

 

[Assault116]

That looks great Rob, but I'd have to cut it up to fit my requirements.

Back to the caliber question, Im not real worried about recoil. I can load both 308 and 260 quite light, and the boy is no stranger to recoil anyhow. Not that I want to pound on his shoulder though. I think a 308 with a soft 125gr load would be a fine starting point, as would a 95-100 gr 260 load. I guess it just comes down to choice, and I dont want my son to show up at his first match with a 308! Every body knows you go 6.5 or not at all.

IMO, 260, from this statement alone. Think of it this way, if you're looking at a 125gr bullet for 308, you can load a similar weight bullet in 260, same recoil, and better ballistic performance, and you aren't giving up anything but a bit of barrel life. Look at the BC on 125gr ish bullets in both calibers and 260 is always going to be better in that department.

For hunting, the question comes down to putting a good shot on game resulting in a clean kill. The exterior ballistic advantages of the 6.5 make that easier to do. Wind and drop both become less critical (not dramatically but there's an advantage there) and you want to inspire confidence fully in your son before setting him in front of game, which is going to most likely have him amped up beyond belief the first couple times. Make it as easy for him as possible, give him every advantage possible. Energy delivered on target is going to be roughly the same at close range given similar velocity and bullet weight, but the 6.5 will retain more energy at longer distance due to better BC.

 

[coldboremiracle]

IMO, 260, from this statement alone. Think of it this way, if you're looking at a 125gr bullet for 308, you can load a similar weight bullet in 260, same recoil, and better ballistic performance, and you aren't giving up anything but a bit of barrel life. Look at the BC on 125gr ish bullets in both calibers and 260 is always going to be better in that department.

For hunting, the question comes down to putting a good shot on game resulting in a clean kill. The exterior ballistic advantages of the 6.5 make that easier to do. Wind and drop both become less critical (not dramatically but there's an advantage there) and you want to inspire confidence fully in your son before setting him in front of game, which is going to most likely have him amped up beyond belief the first couple times. Make it as easy for him as possible, give him every advantage possible. Energy delivered on target is going to be roughly the same at close range given similar velocity and bullet weight, but the 6.5 will retain more energy at longer distance due to better BC.

I like your line of thinking, and its basically what I had been planning for.

 

[Rockfish Dave]

I think there is allot to be said for a lighter recoiling caliber/cartridge. I took a frail coworker shooting who was terrified of recoil. He shot my 260 and was smiling ear to ear. The load was full power berger 140grn vld's. Even with his inexperience, behind a trigger, he printed a group just under 3/4 moa.

I think that there will be less of a chance with the younger one's developing a flinch not to mention if they have a positive experience they will be more likely to want to do it more. Definitely something to build on.

 

[BCP]

After shooting my 260 a little bit I already like it more than 308. It's a neat balance between the larger 30cal and the smaller bullets of the 243. I can't wait until my rifle is 100% set up the way I want it.

Not sure about a 16" though. I think 20-22 is about the shortest you should do. Also for a hunt/stalk rifle for a kid weight will be a serious concern. He's not going to be happy with a 10-12lb rifle on his back.

 

[Punisher29073]

Who are we kiddin? Give him both. Let hike decide and start ordering parts for your next two builds to replace the ones yours son stole, errr was given.

Ryan

 

[coldboremiracle]

Not sure about a 16" though. I think 20-22 is about the shortest you should do. Also for a hunt/stalk rifle for a kid weight will be a serious concern. He's not going to be happy with a 10-12lb rifle on his back.

I understand what your saying. JFcomfort is shooting a 16.5" creedmoore and based on his performance, I am fine with a 16" for a 10yr olds first rifle.

 

[Tonele6]

My 16 year old son just had a 260 built, he really likes it. His older brother has a 308 he plays with it to when his brother allows him. Either would do fine i reckon, no doubt he will have a good teacher.
Regards Toni

 

[SharpsNitro]

Why not start him with a .243?

 

[Sniper260]

I run a 260 so thats my reccommendation. I have a brake on it, and it kicks like a ruger 10/22... NOTHING...

 

[coldboremiracle]

Why not start him with a .243?

There is nothing wrong with the .243, and I considered it as well. But this little guy cant wait to go elk hunting, and I would rather he shoot bigger bullets for elk. A 243 would work, but I think a .260 would do better. Add to that, I already have a .260 and everything to roll 'em, so that helps as well.