308 or 260 Rem

[Unknown]

I'm considering changing out my DPMS LR308 that has a 24 inch fluted barrel (in 308) for a 20 inch 260 Remington barrel made by Black hole weaponry with a 1-9 twist and 3P rifling.

I would like to shoot 140-142 and similar weight bullets, but don't know if this barrel will properly stabilize them. I have heard that this barrel may have gain twist, and the 3P rifling along with the twist WILL stabilize the bullets, but would like to hear from anyone having experience with these barrels first.

I have a bolt gun in 260, and 308, so either way, I'll end up with a gas gun to match one or the other of my bolt guns. I just don't know which one would give me better performance out of a gas gun (308 or the 260 with shorter tube).

 

[Five7guy]

Re: 308 or 260 Rem

I dunno which will give better perfomance between a 308 and 260, But to throw a wrench into the pot I would say go with a 6.5 Creedmoor if your considering a 260. The 6.5 seems to have a better following Hornady makes good brass and they also have factory Match ammo available. I was dead set on getting a 260 till I found out about the 6.5 Creed and the 6.5x47 Lapua. I just bought a 6.5x47 which is very close to the Creedmoor. In terms of ballistics the Creedmore, 6.5x47 Lapua and 260 are all running right next to each other one isnt hands down better than another one. Just some food for thought at least thats the route I'd go.

 

[EROCO]

Re: 308 or 260 Rem

I doubt the i in 9 twist would be enough for the 140 grain bullets. You also have to consider the mag length for the coal, the 140 grainers are way long.

 

[EROCO]

Re: 308 or 260 Rem

by the way to answer your question..

260 has better ballistic properties and a flatter trajectory but the 308 has more energy for 600 yds or less

just stick with the 308 if I were you..

 

[bowslngr]

Re: 308 or 260 Rem

1:9 will do the shorter 140 gr hunting bullets, but not the higher BC target bullets (or hunting VLDs, Amaxs, etc) in that weight range.

 

[Unknown]

Re: 308 or 260 Rem

The barrel comes with the bolt that is already headspaced for the 260 Remington, so going with the 6.5 Creedmoor isn't possible.

I would probably be shooting bullets like the Sierra, or Nosler 140 grain BTHP, or Hornady Amax. I might try out the 123 grain Scenar as I use that bullet in my Grendels and get really good performance with it. I have found a load with the 123 Scenar that works well in my 260 Remington bolt gun, so just to save on the logistics, having one bullet that I can use in 4 different rifles would be really great. With the 123 grain bullet, I think the 1-9 twist would be fine.

Maybe the best idea for getting info on the barrel and it's twist would be for me to contact Black Hole Weaponry.

I am still very interested in any information from other fellows who have used this cartridge in this type of gas gun to get some of their input.

 

[Five7guy]

Re: 308 or 260 Rem

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> The barrel comes with the bolt that is already headspaced for the 260 Remington, so going with the 6.5 Creedmoor isn't possible.

I would probably be shooting bullets like the Sierra, or Nosler 140 grain BTHP, or Hornady Amax. I might try out the 123 grain Scenar as I use that bullet in my Grendels and get really good performance with it. I have found a load with the 123 Scenar that works well in my 260 Remington bolt gun, so just to save on the logistics, having one bullet that I can use in 4 different rifles would be really great. With the 123 grain bullet, I think the 1-9 twist would be fine.

Maybe the best idea for getting info on the barrel and it's twist would be for me to contact Black Hole Weaponry.

I am still very interested in any information from other fellows who have used this cartridge in this type of gas gun to get some of their input.
</div></div>

My bad didnt realize you could only choose between those two. Plus if you already have a 260 bolt gun and found a load that was workable in each thatd be ideal but even if they varied slightly just having the same brass and stuff would be nice. Good luck hopefully someone with a 20" 260 can chime in and help you out.

 

[CowboyBart]

Re: 308 or 260 Rem

I just got a DPMS upper for my LR. It has an 8.5" twist and stabilizes 139gr hunting bullets. I loaded some 144gr bullets for it but didn't shoot them as they were too long for the mag. I seated them deeper but haven't shot them yet.
I would lean toward and 8.5" twist or 8" twist if you like the high BC bullets. What twist does your bolt gun have?? Will the mag & throat allow you to seat the bolt gun ammo out past 2.8"??

 

[bowslngr]

Re: 308 or 260 Rem

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Unknown</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The barrel comes with the bolt that is already headspaced for the 260 Remington, so going with the 6.5 Creedmoor isn't possible.

I would probably be shooting bullets like the Sierra, or Nosler 140 grain BTHP, or Hornady Amax. I might try out the 123 grain Scenar as I use that bullet in my Grendels and get really good performance with it. I have found a load with the 123 Scenar that works well in my 260 Remington bolt gun, so just to save on the logistics, having one bullet that I can use in 4 different rifles would be really great. With the 123 grain bullet, I think the 1-9 twist would be fine.

Maybe the best idea for getting info on the barrel and it's twist would be for me to contact Black Hole Weaponry.

I am still very interested in any information from other fellows who have used this cartridge in this type of gas gun to get some of their input. </div></div>

You can get a 6.5 creedmoor barrel, install it and use the existing 308 bolt you already have on hand. As long as you buy a DPMS pattern barrel it will already headspace to a DPMS pattern bolt. If you don't trust it, invest in a set of go/no go guages and check after assembly.

 

[Unknown]

Re: 308 or 260 Rem

The barrel I'm looking at is already chambered for 260 Remington, and comes with a bolt that is headspaced for it. The price is extremely attractive (under $200 mounted), so that is why I'm looking at it.

I already have dies, brass, and another rifle in 260 Remington, and am not interested in going into the 6.5 Creedmoor as the logistics for brass and reloading gear would be a pain in the butt, for no tremendous gain in performance.

So the choice here is stay with the 308, or go to the 260 Remington, the Creedmoor is off the table.

I spoke with Black hole weaponry today and they told me that as long as I keep velocity up, the barrel will not have any trouble stabilizing the 140 grain range projectiles, so that is good to know.

As I develop loads with a chronograph, I can easily work up to the velocity needed for the 140 grain projectiles as long as no pressure signs come up.

 

[CowboyBart]

Re: 308 or 260 Rem

I have found that elevation/humidity have an effect on the stabilization if the twist rate is "on the edge". In other words a 9" twist will stabilize a 140 gr where I live at 5000' and 40% RH. At a friends house in Indiana it did not stabilize them. I'm guessing IN is at 100' and RH of 85%. If you "live" in Puget Sound, elevation is low and humidity is high. If you are just stationed there and will be leaving in a year or 2 and going to SD or NM or somewhere else that has lower humidity and highter elevation you should be alright.

At that price I would get it and try it out.

 

[tomahawk84]

Re: 308 or 260 Rem

I have a 16 inch 308 rainier select barrel on my gas gun it shoots 1-2 moa i think they are made by bhw. I think you would be better off with a better barrel, they are great barrels for the money, but i get the impression you are looking for match grade accuracy. Either way for the price it cant be beat. Let us know how it works out.

 

[M14]

Re: 308 or 260 Rem

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CowboyBart</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just got a DPMS upper for my LR. It has an 8.5" twist and stabilizes 139gr hunting bullets. I loaded some 144gr bullets for it but didn't shoot them as they were too long for the mag. I seated them deeper but haven't shot them yet.
I would lean toward and 8.5" twist or 8" twist if you like the high BC bullets. What twist does your bolt gun have?? Will the mag & throat allow you to seat the bolt gun ammo out past 2.8"?? </div></div>


Exactly ! Good post. To the OP, watch your projectile runout, or lead. Use meplat trimmer on all projectiles. Any setback in this cartridge from chambering, will play heck with your accuracy. I factory crimp mine and have no problems with it. Optimal accuracy with this barrel and the .260 also. Go for it.
As an aside, I sold it to a doctor that won the AQT with it and tore those baby black rifles up at 600yds. It was a full value 15 mph wind that day and the .260 paid off.

 

[Unknown]

Re: 308 or 260 Rem

I definitely am looking for accuracy, and frankly, 1 MOA is barely acceptable. If most of the BHW 260 Remington barrels only shoot 1-3 MOA, I'm not really interested in even trying it out.

Trying out a barrel that would be lacking in accuracy isn't interesting because I already have an extra Obermeyer stainless 1-11 twist barrel that I could have mounted into this upper. I'm pretty sure that this Obermeyer tube would certainly shoot better than that as all the other Obermeyer tubes do, so I would just stay with a 308 if I did that.

 

[SICARIO]

Re: 308 or 260 Rem

I have a 308, but a .260 is definitely in my future.

 

[Unknown]

Re: 308 or 260 Rem

I suppose I could try and trade the 30 cal Obermeyer barrel for a 6.5mm one, then do the same thing with the 6.5 mm barrel... I have no doubt that an Obermeyer barrel would shoot great if it is mounted properly. And, I could get the barrel cut to 22 inches rather than 20, or 24. 24 inches is a little long, and 20 inches looses more velocity than I would like...the 22 inch would be a great compromise length.

 

[southpaw68]

Re: 308 or 260 Rem

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EROCO</div><div class="ubbcode-body">by the way to answer your question..

260 has better ballistic properties and a flatter trajectory but the 308 has more energy for 600 yds or less

just stick with the 308 if I were you..</div></div>

I'm Not trying to be argumentative, just curious what bullets you used in your comparison calculations and what program you used to calculate this...I ran a quick check and I come up with a different answer...at least when comparing similar bullets.

OP... go with the .260. Better BC in most cases, flatter trajectory, less recoil...I have yet to find sufficient reason that the latest 6.5mm cartridges are not completely superior to the .308...don't get me wrong...I'm not .308 basshing...I own 4...

good luck with your choice.

 

[EROCO]

Re: 308 or 260 Rem

Using iSnipe:
600 yards
308 with 175 smk @ 2790 @ 4400 asl = 1,416 ft/lbs
260 with 142 smk @ 2860 @ 4400 asl = 1,432 ft/lbs

That is about when the 260 overtakes the 308

500 yards
308 same as above = 1,623 ft/lbs
260 same as above = 1,589 ft/lbs

 

[southpaw68]

Re: 308 or 260 Rem

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EROCO</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Using iSnipe:
600 yards
308 with 175 smk @ 2790 @ 4400 asl = 1,416 ft/lbs
260 with 142 smk @ 2860 @ 4400 asl = 1,432 ft/lbs

That is about when the 260 overtakes the 308

500 yards
308 same as above = 1,623 ft/lbs
260 same as above = 1,589 ft/lbs

</div></div>

I can't get those velocities out of any of my .308s with that bullet so I can't speak to that...None of my books advertise that high a velocity with max loads and the max loads I have tried were starting to show slight pressure signs so I don't run beyond that.

I don't have a .260 I have a 6.5CM, but the differance is negligable when comparing them bllistically, with a slight edge going to the CM... but I can't get those vleocities out of it either. So you must be running a really long barrel AND pushing your loads as I'm fairly certain you'd not get those velocities out of factory ammo.

All the numbers I run put them both fairly close through all ranges with the .308 having the advantage at closer ranges and the CM having a slight advantage way out there(800 to 1000yds).

So for most cases I'll have to respectfully disagree with your initial assesment...I am not saying you are not getting the results you have posted... Just that most people will not.

 

[EROCO]

Re: 308 or 260 Rem

You have a good point but to be fair I am pushing both examples pretty hard.

My barrel is 27" for the 308 and 26" for the 260 near max loads.

I agree 600 might be a stretch but I think for 500 or less the energy still is higher with the 308 compared to 260 using factory ammo, just my opinion after spending time with both calibers.

 

[EROCO]

Re: 308 or 260 Rem

Oh yea, beyond 600 yards and the 6.5/264 caliber checks out compared to a 308.

But you can't beat the availability and cost of 308 components..

 

[southpaw68]

Re: 308 or 260 Rem

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EROCO</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Oh yea, beyond 600 yards and the 6.5/264 caliber checks out compared to a 308.

But you can't beat the availability and cost of 308 components.. </div></div>

I'll tetatively agree with you on availability, because I have heard that brass has been hard to find, although I've never had a problem, but cost is about the same.

 

[Birddog67]

Re: 308 or 260 Rem

308 is cheaper to shoot and reload .

 

[EROCO]

Re: 308 or 260 Rem

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: southpaw68</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EROCO</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Oh yea, beyond 600 yards and the 6.5/264 caliber checks out compared to a 308.

But you can't beat the availability and cost of 308 components.. </div></div>

I'll tetatively agree with you on availability, because I have heard that brass has been hard to find, although I've never had a problem, but cost is about the same. </div></div>

About the same? I don't know where you shop but at powdervalley:

Lapua brass 260 100 pcs = 92.53
Lapua brass 308 100 pcs = 64.53

142 smk @ 500 pcs = 155.82
175 smk @ 500 pcs = 145.00

That's just one example but 308 is way cheaper in this example.

 

[Unknown]

Re: 308 or 260 Rem

My TRG22 gets around 2700 out of the Lapua Lock base bullet

My Defiance Machine action w/ Obermeyer 27 inch barrel 260 gets around 2860-2875 with a 142 grain bullet. But the barrel on the 260 is longer.

I think the only really fair way to compare the two would be to fire them each out of similarly prepared rifles with barrels of the same length.

If I did that, I think that the 308 would start out with more energy, but the 260 would begin to catch up around 300-500 yards, and from there out, the 260 would have the edge.

However, with both cartridges, I can't get hits unless I know and use my dope correctly. I doubt that anything hit with either cartridge inside of 1000 yards would know they got hit with the more powerful, or less powerful round. I'm not into talking about penetration tests, so save all that stuff.

The advantages I see of the 260 are it's longer range before the bullet goes transonic, and it's lower recoil. However, the recoil of the 308 has not been anything that has caused me the difficulty of my 300 Win mag with a 190 grain bullet at 2960 fps. The 300 just tasks my concentration more after a few rounds.

 

[johnsta]

Re: 308 or 260 Rem

I hope the cost of .260 becomes cheaper. The round sure has a lot of potential.

 

[Unknown]

Re: 308 or 260 Rem

My timing for my 260 bolt rifle was perfect. About 6 months after I got it finished, Lapua came out with 260 cases. I have enough brass to last for a while, but when my current lot of brass goes, I'll buy Lapua and expect to get a few more FPS out of the stronger cases.

 

[swoodz]

Re: 308 or 260 Rem

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Unknown</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My timing for my 260 bolt rifle was perfect. About 6 months after I got it finished, Lapua came out with 260 cases. I have enough brass to last for a while, but when my current lot of brass goes, I'll buy Lapua and expect to get a few more FPS out of the stronger cases. </div></div>

Don't forget that Lapua brass is a bit thicker and may not chamber or have enough clearance in the neck area depending on what reamer was used.

 

[Unknown]

Re: 308 or 260 Rem

I had West Wind rifles in Erie, Colorado chamber the 260, and he used the saami spec chamber. The last rifle I had him do, he asked how much jump I wanted my bullet to have before it reached the lands (on a 300 win mag M40A1). I told him I wanted 12-15 thousandths jump. The rifle came back with 12.5 thou jump, and I was mighty impressed. So I expect that he used a really good reamer.

Apparently, he uses a chamber reamer, and a separate reamer for the throat depending on which bullet I want to use. I send dummy rounds, and West wind sets up the chamber first ,then the throat depending on how much jump I want.

My point in all this rambling is that I'm really sure that the Lapua cases will chamber just fine. If there is any issue, I always have a neck turning setup. But I would prefer to have just enough clearance between the case neck and chamber neck wall so that the case can safely release the bullet without being too loose. Thicker Lapua cases will help that out.

I'm currently running Winchester 7mm-08 cases necked down, and they work great. I got lucky necking them down, and don't have any donuts inside the necks at all. I had never necked cases down so I crushed a couple of cases before I figured out how to neck them down without any loss of cases.