.308 rounds hard to chamber?

S

scwoody

Private
Full Member
Minuteman
Oct 11, 2011
44
0
42
Peoria, az
#1
First Iam pretty new to reloading. I loaded up a bunch of rounds today to start load developing for my savage 10fp and found the bolt is really stiff when I chamber a round. I'm using full length resized, twice fired(from my rifle) Nosler brass using a hornaday resizing die. The OAL doesn't change anything either(even used brass without a bullet to make sure it was the brass causing the problem with same results. Brass trimmed to 2.005".The brass was resized prior using my cousins RCBS dies and chambered fine.

1. My question is should I worry about it?
2. Could my hornaday dies just be sizing them a little tight for my chamber? Diffrent from the RCBS dies?
3. Or what is it Iam doing wrong?
Thanks for the help.
 
#2
Re: .308 rounds hard to chamber?

Sounds like a headspace issue. If the die is not touching the shell holder try adjusting it down a little at a time checking to see if the bolt will close easily as you go. You may even have to go very slightly beyond shellholder/die contact to account for press flex.
If that doesn't work, your options are to buy a different die or contact Hornady and ask WTF? Should probably be more tactful. Someone may recommend grinding your sizing die, I wouldn't, specially if their new, they have warranties.
A headspace gauge/comporator would help shed some light on this for you.
 
#3
Re: .308 rounds hard to chamber?

If you have a 40sw case decap it and decap a fired round, put the 40 on top of the 308, the openning of the 40 is resting on the shoulder, measure it, adjust your die until it reads .001-.0015 less, the datum of the 308 family is .400, and 40 brass will make a redneck headspace gauge in a pinch, the instructions that come with most full length dies is better used as shit paper in the field.
 
#4
Re: .308 rounds hard to chamber?

If it's a coventional full length sizing die with expander ball then you will need to size further down than the actual size of the chamber because when the expander ball pulls through the neck the shoulder is popped out to some degree.
Polishing up the case and the neck inside and out will help.
Use a dry lube on the inside of the neck , 50% graphite 50% Moly Disulphide mix. Use a wet lube on the outside like RCBS or Imperial sizing wax. This reduces the drag on the case and the inside neck area.
Set up the die turning it down a bit at a time until a sticky case will just start to chamber then add a fraction more and then the bolt should close . Lock the die up there.
If any grinding is required it is better to grind down the shell holder not the die as it only costs a few dollars . You may want to sell that die one day and if it's modified it may not be worth anything. Mark the shell holder to that die and keep it fixed to the die with some tie wire .
 
#5
Re: .308 rounds hard to chamber?

The Hornady die (of course) is not "sizing them a little tight for my chamber?" If anything, your brass is not being resized enough. Just to make sure, what are the markings on the die? Who set up the RCBS die; you or your cousin? Are you sure that you understand how to set up a die for full length resizing?

There is a lot of chatter in this forum about "bumping a shoulder" which is a perfectly acceptable practice, especially for fine accuracy, but. The one objective is to be able to rechamber a fired case in your rifle. If you cannot chamber a round, you have not resized the brass adequately. It's doubtful that you have had the misfortune of buying a defective die, which needs modifying. It seems much more likely, to me that you are not setting the shoulder back enough, or your stroke is not touching the base of the cartridge enough to resize it?

You should measure the base of a case sized in the RCBS die, and one that won't chamber, from the Hornady die. Check this against an unfired case, if you have one? It is possible that you have a relatively oversized chamber, which is not a very good thing for a couple reasons. But, you have to resize, and that is not happening, thus far. BB
 
#7
Re: .308 rounds hard to chamber?

Did you set the sizing die per instructions?
I use a lanolin/isopropyl lube or hornady one shot,in the zip lock bag method. does the necks just right too. been working great for me and quite a few others.

are you trimming after sizing?

you should be using head space gauges too. like the hornady kit,IMO.
 
#10
Re: .308 rounds hard to chamber?

Check to see if the brass alone can chamber. If it can, then your bullet is in the lands.

With my Savage 10 FCP-K, seating a 175gr SMK to book OAL of 2.800 would have had me jammed by around .009.

If you get it chambered, does it require a lot of force to un-chamber it?
 
#11
Re: .308 rounds hard to chamber?

I don't know about the above? He states these are twice fired.

As far as seating a bullet too far out, the big clue there is in ejecting. You will have an action full of fine powder sticking to everything, especially trigger mechanisms. Not to mention the bullet stuck in the bore. If you manage to extract it, undamaged, you will see rifling marks on the bullet. On the other hand, he is probably seating bullets so that they fit the magazine, so that would also exclude jamming a bullet into the lands.

The comments about headspace are premature. Excessive headspace is easily observed on a fired case. Not saying it is or it isn't, but by the description of the symptoms, it seems far more likely that the cases have simply not been sufficiently resized. BB
 
#13
Re: .308 rounds hard to chamber?

I know it depends on the rifle but like I said, I was very surprised to find that seating to 2.800 was .009 jammed on my 10 FCP-K. If I seated to maximum mag length I would be jammed by about .200 thanks to Savage's giant mag.

But I missed the part about 2 times fired. In that case, he would have already noticed if he was jammed.

Sizing seems more likely and I haven't heard of headspace issues after 2 firings.
 
#14
Re: .308 rounds hard to chamber?

Thanks for the help guys! Didn't have a lot of time today but I was able to sneak out(newborn at home :eek:) and resize a couple brass, I turned the die another half turn down and it seemed to do the trick.
 
#15
Re: .308 rounds hard to chamber?

Word to the wise: you are adjusting equipment that is precise to thousandths of an inch a half turn at a time. You need to buy the appropriate tools here. Get a chamber length tool like what hornady makes, a bullet comparitor, and a case bump gauge from sinclair.

I tried the half turn method when I was new at this and wrecked about 200 pieces of brass by the third firing. They were developing case head separation from excessive sizing from improperly set dies.

Rich
 
#16
Re: .308 rounds hard to chamber?

I agree you did not take one bit of notice of my post that explained how to work the die down while trying the case in the guns chamber so you know when it "NEARLY FITS" and then adjust the die a fraction more until the bolt closes. That way you know you have neat fitting brass . Just wacking the die down another half a turn may be too much you will not know until your cases start to fail early .
 
#17
Re: .308 rounds hard to chamber?

Ok, Im going to take the time and follow your steps but like I said I really didn't have time yesterday and just wanted to see by sizing a couple pieces. Thanks for all the advice, I know there is a lot for me to learn.
 
#18
Re: .308 rounds hard to chamber?

All the input is great. My experience befuddles me. I've been reloading for 25 yrs.Sometimes, say 1 out of 100, I get a case{308}, that Won't resize properly. I've "measured" it, checked the dies, thought something moved, lube issue? 99 went through fine, then I get this one. Still can't figure it out.
 
#19
Re: .308 rounds hard to chamber?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: joshboucher</div><div class="ubbcode-body">All the input is great. My experience befuddles me. I've been reloading for 25 yrs.Sometimes, say 1 out of 100, I get a case{308}, that Won't resize properly. I've "measured" it, checked the dies, thought something moved, lube issue? 99 went through fine, then I get this one. Still can't figure it out. </div></div>

This is a shot in the dark but...

Could it be possible that you are sizing right on the borderline between chambering and not. If so, it is ever so slightly possible that you run into one case that has slightly different properties and has more spring to it. Could just be springing back from the sizing die more than the other 99 cases.
 
#20
Re: .308 rounds hard to chamber?

I started handloading in the 60's, using a Lee Loader for the only rifle I owned at the time, a 270 Win. It didn't take long to see the shortcomings with that system. I was an avid reader of loading manuals, but beyond that and a monthly edition of Guns & Ammo by Bob Hutton, (my hero) that was it, I had to learn it all, on my own.

These forums should be the cat's ass, a wonderful resource, but from what I have observed, we have a new breed of instant gratification types that get on the Internet with questions that should have been mastered in handloading 101.

God! I hate regulation in any form, but perhaps it is time for some type of "driver's license test" before allowing them to sally forth, not a care in the world, ie: too busy to grasp basic concepts, simple but essential steps, things that should come second nature after a few years, "time in grade".

Everybody has to start someplace, but there seems to be a basic lack of respect for the whole enchilada.

end of rant, thank you. BB
 
#21
Re: .308 rounds hard to chamber?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: scwoody</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ok, Im going to take the time and follow your steps but like I said I really didn't have time yesterday and just wanted to see by sizing a couple pieces. Thanks for all the advice, I know there is a lot for me to learn. </div></div>
The reason I am worried is thata half turn ona 7/8 x14 threaded die is equal to approx. .0357 in length movement. That is way over the max amount af safe headspace . A 1/8 turn is approx. .0089 . So you can see that to get it set just a thou or two under the chamber length requires very fractional movement of the die once the case will nearly chamber . The ammounts of die movement stated are just for illustration of the issue and not to be used in calculating anything , just gives you some perspective on die movement .
 
#22
Re: .308 rounds hard to chamber?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BuzzBoss915</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I started handloading in the 60's, using a Lee Loader for the only rifle I owned at the time, a 270 Win. It didn't take long to see the shortcomings with that system. I was an avid reader of loading manuals, but beyond that and a monthly edition of Guns & Ammo by Bob Hutton, (my hero) that was it, I had to learn it all, on my own.

These forums should be the cat's ass, a wonderful resource, but from what I have observed, we have a new breed of instant gratification types that get on the Internet with questions that should have been mastered in handloading 101.

God! I hate regulation in any form, but perhaps it is time for some type of "driver's license test" before allowing them to sally forth, not a care in the world , ie: too busy to grasp basic concepts, simple but essential steps, things that should come second nature after a few years, "time in grade".

Everybody has to start someplace, but there seems to be a basic lack of respect for the whole enchilada.

end of rant, thank you. BB </div></div>
I am about the same history as you only I started with a 22 rimfire and a SMLE 303 . The situation is not as bad as we think because the amount of news and information services that we have today at our fingertips make everything seem worse than it was when we just did not know what was going on most of the time . If we had the internet when we were young it would be us asking the obvious questions not answering them. The internet forum is a great resouce if it's used properly . Some posters come on ask a question and leave without even saying thanks however most do the right thing and give feedback as the thread builds and that helps to get an even better solution. Sometimes the best info comes at the end of a thread because more info has come from the original poster that was not in the first question . We should always remeber that reloading is a very safe sport / hobbie and the statistics prove that world wide . I don't like too much regulation because once they have a law to regulate something , it becomes a target for the regulators to strengthen and improve that law until you have no hobbie left at all. Ammunition companies would love to shut down reloading and bullet swaging .
 
#23
Re: .308 rounds hard to chamber?

Yeah, I know and agree. But there must be a way for these guys to do the actual legwork? Sometimes I have the feeling that a whole chapter, if not a complete book is needed when responding to some of these questions.

Hey, how come you still have a firearm, I thought Aussies had to turn them all in a few years ago? BB
 
#24
Re: .308 rounds hard to chamber?

Woody,

I ran into the same problem when I started reloading. It is either a headspace issue or you have loaded the Cartridge Overall Lenght(COAL) too long. Measure your bullet with your calipers. You need tools to figure out what is going on. You can purchase a OAL tool Here

http://www.sinclairintl.com/.aspx/pid=35663/Product/Hornady-Lock-N-Load-OAL-Gauge-standard-

Also you need to purchase a gauge to verify your sizing your brass & bumping your shoulders on cases properly.

http://www.sinclairintl.com/.aspx/pid=35168/Product/Hornady-Lock-N-Load-trade-Headspace-Gauge-Tool

Finally here is an article from Sinclair Internation to read to give you an idea of the concepts and process of setting up your FL Die.


Full-Length Sizing Die Set-Up — Tip from Sinclair International
How to Set Up Your Full Length Sizing Die
by Ron Dague, Sinclair International Technician
From Sinclair’s Reloading Press Blog

At Sinclair International, we are often asked for a fool-proof method to set up a full-length sizing die, and begin reloading our fired cases. The method used by many target shooters today is to set up your full length die to closely match your rifle chamber and minimally full-length size your cases –as little as .001&#8243; for bolt-action rifles. I prefer to use this method for all of my bolt-action cartridges.

STEP ONE
I like to de-prime five (5) cases (de-prime only, do not full length resize) and measure from the base of the case to the shoulder with our Sinclair Comparator Body (09-1000) and Bump Gage Insert(09-10200). We refer to this as our headspace measurement. Our Electronic Caliper (#MIC-14) works well and may be pre-set at .000” making this headspace measurement easy to capture. The Sinclair Comparator/Gauge Body and Bump Gage Inserts make this task fairly simple. L.E. Wilson Tools & Gages, Hornady Manufacturing, and RCBS all make similar units to achieve your headspace measurement.

STEP TWO
With your full-length die threaded into your reloading press, loosen the lock ring and run the press ram up toward the full length die with a shell holder in place (with no case). Then, screw the die toward the shell holder until it stops. Back the die out of the press and away from the shell holder one full turn and set the lock ring finger tight.

STEP THREE
Lubricate each of the cases with your favorite sizing lube (my favorite is Imperial Sizing Die Wax) and resize a case. Again, take a headspace measurement from base to shoulder. [When running the case up into the die, be sure the press ram moves the full limit of its upward travel.] If there’s no change in the measurement from the fired dimension, loosen the die lock ring and turn the full length sizing die downward 1/8 of a turn. [Editor's Note: You'll need to use smaller turn amounts as you get close to the desired amount of bump. We suggest moving just a few degrees of die rotation at a time once you've reached the point where the die hits the shoulder without moving it back.] Now repeat the sizing process with a second lubricated case and take the measurement again. Keep rotating the die downward gradually (in small increments) and repeat the case sizing process until you see approx-imately .001”-.002” reduction to your fired headspace measurement. We prefer a headspace reduction of approximately .001&#8243; – .002&#8243; for bolt action rifles and .003&#8243; – .005&#8243; for semi-auto rifles. You can adjust to your rifle as to what works best. Don’t forget to load 10 rounds or so and try them from the rifle’s magazine to make sure they function properly.

Full-length Sizing vs. Neck-Sizing
Just a quick word on neck sizing…..I have personally never been a big fan of neck sizing. Often times when I put neck sized cases back in the rifle, the bolt would close with some drag, or it would be a bit “snug”. This was mostly recognized with factory rifles. I didn’t have any problems with accuracy, just with cycling the action for a follow up shot. If your rifle is custom chambered with the action straightened and trued, neck sizing will work well on 4-5 firing’s and then you will need to full length size or use a body die to set the shoulders back when the cases begin to “stick”. Hope these tips help make the use of a headspace gauge and full length die set up much easier.

Ron Dague
Sinclair Tech and Reloading Instructor
 
#25
Re: .308 rounds hard to chamber?

Your right mate , some questions are impossible to answer without writing a book but the askers don't know that and in time they learn that .
We only had to hand in Semi Autos and Slide action shot guns.
We replaced the Auto and Pump shotguns with Lever actions and the Auto Rifles with Pump action rifles . So go figure what the Government really achieved after spending 1 Billion dollars on buy back compensations.
These are the types of reasons that the Western world is going bankrupt . Stupid moronic Politicians wasting our tax dollars on useless crap , while our Hospitals , Schools and Police Force are falling apart from a lack of proper financing .
 
#26
Re: .308 rounds hard to chamber?

{quote } Full-length Sizing vs. Neck-Sizing
Just a quick word on neck sizing…..I have personally never been a big fan of neck sizing. Often times when I put neck sized cases back in the rifle, the bolt would close with some drag, or it would be a bit “snug”. This was mostly recognized with factory rifles. I didn’t have any problems with accuracy, just with cycling the action for a follow up shot. If your rifle is custom chambered with the action straightened and trued, neck sizing will work well on 4-5 firing’s and then you will need to full length size or use a body die to set the shoulders back when the cases begin to “stick”. Hope these tips help make the use of a headspace gauge and full length die set up much easier.

{/quote}
I would not take too much notice of this information as it is confused ,
Full Length sizing , Body sizing and Neck sizing are 3 seperate sizing systems and seperate types of dies . There is no one verses the other.
You use the system that suits the action type or loading regime .
I don't know what he is going on about neck sizing only working in a custom action ?? In any bolt action you can get away with a few firings with just a neck size , the number varies in different guns with different brass and chamber dimentions , different load pressure etc. but eventually the case will start to stick and then you need to go to the next step either a Body size which will just bump the shoulder and size the body and not touch the neck as you do that in the seperate neck die or just go back to a full length size die which does neck and body at the same time.
If you are loading an Auto then you could just use the Full Length die all the time . If you are loading a bolt action I would seperate the neck sizing from the body sizing as a Body die is designed to bump the shoulder easily without the inteference of sizing the neck at the same time. Far better for achieving precise results and preserving the neck dimentions and not overworking the brass .
I have not used a traditional Full Length sizing die with an expander ball , the type that sizes the neck and body at the same time in my good guns for many years . A Full Length die that has a bushing to size the neck is better than an expander ball type die in some circumstances.
One of the huge problems is that many people call a " Body die " a " Full Length sizing die " and this causes massive world wide confusion .
It is not Full Length it only sizes from the junction of the neck and shoulder to the base , no neck sizing involved .

 
#27
Re: .308 rounds hard to chamber?

Get the gauges to measure how much you are bumping back, as mentioned above. Too much and you overwork the brass and decrease life and accuracy. Too little and you get a sticky or worse stuck case.
 
#28
Re: .308 rounds hard to chamber?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you have a 40sw case decap it and decap a fired round, put the 40 on top of the 308, the openning of the 40 is resting on the shoulder, measure it, adjust your die until it reads .001-.0015 less, the datum of the 308 family is .400, and 40 brass will make a redneck headspace gauge in a pinch, the instructions that come with most full length dies is better used as shit paper in the field. </div></div>

WYLE E. COYOTE Super genius right there. Great tip, Thank you!

Now, Woody, I have seen the issue your talking about occur several times with peoples reloads, even some of my first. The points n the sizing die are great, and you should listen to these guys, everyone of them made great observations and had great suggestions, some very technical, and I enjoyed them. Seriously, not being sarcastic here guys!
BUT.... It is possible that your seating die is ran down too far, your seating the bullet and the die will try to crimp the round, and when there is nowhere for the mouth to roll into, it will colapse the shoulder or bulge the shoulder, sometimes enough to see it, sometimes not, but enough to make the round that seems to check out dimensionally with every other measurement to NOT chamber easily or at all. I have a friend that seems to be the master of creating this phenomenom with every new caliber he reloads. Like a Garand won't swallow these rounds. SO, on the rounds that were tough to chamber, check the angle at the top of the body/bottom of the shoulder. Is it shiney? does it look like it got "sized" after you tried to chamber it? if it does, its a good chance your crimoing" your un crimpable bullets and the seating portion of your set up is giving you issues. I tried chambering fired empties in 3 of my rifles just now and they all still chamber. Lots of people Neck size only with no bumping of the shoulder with no issues.... So I want to say the seating die is hurting you on this one.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Y
How smoothly should my resized cases load into the chamber with bolt ejector removed?
Replies
24
Views
480
918v
918v
Edsel
SEMIAUTOS - SHOULDERS GETTING BUMPED UPON CHAMBERING
Replies
14
Views
400
Edsel
Edsel
T
New to non SAAMI Loads- 7x300Win ANY/ALL advice needed and greatly appreciated.
Replies
21
Views
473
Schw15
S
Rommel Garcia
Reloading Tikka T3x 308 - Fires when chambered after bolt lock
Replies
16
Views
745
Charlie112
Charlie112
parkerg31
RCBS AR sizing die issue
Replies
1
Views
286
tomme boy
tomme boy
Top Bottom
Back
Home
Forums
Merch
Alerts