.308 Semi-Build on a budget... sanity check?

[SamNavy]

I've shot some very expensive bolt-actions over the years... all owned by buddies of mine that are way outside my budget. Heck, their scope rings cost more than I want to spend on a barrel. I've been researching a semi-auto .308 for hunting/precision/fun.

I've decided on a DMPS platform build on a Mega Maten upper/lower.

Mega Maten Upper/Lower $600
Mega or Brownells 20" Barrel $300
Wilson Combat adjustable gas-block and tube $80
DPMS standard vented free-float tube $60
DPMS LPK $60
Hogue Grip $20
ACT Combat trigger $75
RRA Operator 2 fixed stock $130

I'm still unsure about BCG ($150?) and muzzle brake ($50).

I see quite a few BCG's for $150 that seem to have good specs, but then I see the DPMS ones for $250 and they seem to be well regarded? Is there a good choice in the $150 BCG lineup?

For the muzzle brake, cost is a very important factor and I'm not very interested in aesthetics... what's the best bang-for-buck with "looks" not a factor?

I do have a budget to stick to and am trying to be realistic at $1500 not including optics (SWFA 12xSS is first choice). I can go with a cheaper stock, skip the grip, and maybe even skip the trigger initially (work my magic at home on the stock trigger and get a spring kit) to drop a couple hundred off the price if need be, but I think if I bundle a few items and watch for coupons/sales that I can make it on budget... might even buy a few things used if the deal is right.

The most important piece for me is to stay as simple and light as practical for hunting (+/-300yd's), but still be able to turn out decent accuracy at distance (+500yds).

I've got a Dillon 550 and a Forster Coax, so I'm all set for ammo.

Anybody have any wisdom?

OH YEAH! And I'm deployed out on a ship right now, so I can take my time with purchases... supposed to get home in October, so gotta aim to be built and tested with a few good loads for deer season!

 

[HairyDemon]

M5 (.308) Upper and Lower combo

Here is your bang for the buck, take that extra cash and get a syrac gas block, I have worked with both and I have Syrac on my Mega308 18"mid and it is fantastic just to turn key and let detent do work, Wilson has a really nice fit and finish but you have to work with a gas screw and a locking screw and need to loctite so it is a PIA.

Get yourself a Rainier Barrel, still in that 300$ range, I got a Rainier Match barrel and it is easy under a minute as they guarantee. Last place to spend money......Trigger I would pay all day for a Geissle.

 

[Pilky01]

If you are truly as cheap ass as you claim there are some muzzle brakes on ebay that look like hell but work. dpms has some very reasonably priced brakes that work as well.

 

[SamNavy]

Your advice is excellent. I thought I'd found all the different receivers currently being offered and can't believe I missed the Aero. At half the price of the Mega, all my bells&whistles wish list just became possible. Am I missing out on anything going with the forged Aero vs. the billet Mega?

There are a couple Syrac blocks that I see here, it looks like they have a detent and click-adjustable model, different finishes and pin or clamp... which one is your recommendation?
http://www.midwayusa.com/find?userSearchQuery=syrac

Some more homework today led me to look at a Schuler brake... that search is over.

 

[SamNavy]

OK... been working on my spreadsheet a little.

Aero upper/lower
Aero charge handle
Aero midlength gas tube
DPMS lpk
Ranier Arms 20" match barrel
Syrac GenII adjustable
Hogue Grip
MB&M muzzle brake
RRA Operator A2 stock
DPMS free float tube
DPMS barrel nut
whatever $150 BCG I find on sale

TOTAL: under $1300 shipped with my FFL fee... and I've got at least $150 I could knock off by going cheaper on the stock, gas block, and grip... nah.

Probably gonna see about a JP spring kit and maybe a little diy trigger work to smooth things out... will see how that works and then decide if I need something better.

Question... I have no need for a $200 rail, and it seems like there is nothing available between the $60 DPMS tube and a $200 MI SSFF or another double/triple the price. Is there a barrel nut solution yet for the DPMS-pattern .308 to use regular AR15 free float tubes?

 

[BCP]

I would rather have the newer magpul fixed length stock (MOE?) than the RRA operator, or just a plain A2 stock.

Definitely dump that muzzle brake, maybe dump the adjustable gas block too. I'd get a regular A2 muzzle device/cheapy YHM flash hider and maybe a regular, cheapy clamp on gas block from YHM or Fulton.

That would save you enough for a giessele SSA-E or their value priced trigger which is not bad at all. A good trigger is really worth it.

Midwest rails are fine (best stuff you'll get for 200 or less) the .210 upper tang is probably the 'hi profile' one to match the Aero upper which is also hi profile. A rail system is really nice if for no other reason than it'll be lighter than the stock DPMS one and you can mount a bipod and flip up front sight easily.

Barrel wise I would be tempted by the mega arms barrels, 300 bucks and nitrided for their 20" rifle gas. If that is the length you want.

That's just my 2 cents.

 

[Mike_in_FL]

I would suggest you read this thread: http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...fles/235280-holy-smokes-dpms-g2-rifles-6.html

It will answer your questions about using an AR15 rail. If you look at the accuracy that people are reporting with this rifle, I think it's the best bang for your buck. Yeah, you might have better upper/lower fit and quality with what you've mentioned but these aren't AR15s. If you spend a bunch of money and it doesn't want to shoot (accurately) you're on your own.

 

[SamNavy]

I'm taking everything onboard.

After doing some more homework on the usefulness of a muzzle brake on a .308 semi, I'm going to skip it... maybe even just get a thread protector and skip the flash-hider altogether... definitely change the "look" of the gun.

I'm also reconsidering a fixed stock. The Magpul MOE is just plain ugly, and I'm not an A1/A1 kinda guy. The RRA Operator fits my face and I can get a great price... but maybe the multi-position carbine model instead. The Magpul CTR looks very similar for the same price.

I intend to shoot a lot of different types of ammo at various power and weights... gotta have an adjustable gas-block. After the suggestion above, the Syrac GenII looks like a clear winner for my needs.

As for the rail, it looks like I'm stuck with the DPMS tube just for price... no biggie as I only really need a bipod, and once installed, I can drill for an attachement point.

Going to keep researching triggers... I'd love a Geiselle, but they're so damn much money. If I don't get one initially, I'm certain it'll be an immediate addition to the "must buy" list.

 

[SamNavy]

Just got my birthday email notice from Midway and also used a $30 off $200 code.

Bought the Cyrac GenII adjustable gas block and gas tube, a DPMS LPK, Hogue Grip, and a few other odds and ends. Gonna get the fore-end later this month, BCG in Aug, and stock in Sept. When I get home, I should just need to order the receivers and barrel!

If I get enough deals, might just save enough money to upgrade to the Ultramatch barrel!

 

[tekmann2377]

If there is anything I would avoid skimping on, it would be the barrel and BCG. I have an 18" Mega barrel - it has achieved the "sub-MOA" guarantee they provide on occasion, but is not as consistently accurate as the Criterion 20" M110 profile barrel that I also have. It was also WAY overgassed and I found an adjustable gas block a necessity.

The Aero receiver set looks like a great deal - I used an SI Defense billet upper/lower, and it was considerably more expensive although not as bad as a MEGA.

As for stock - I used a fixed A2 stock. The rifle ran better after this too - the A2 system has a heavier buffer and better spring rate than the DPMS carbine system. Another option is either an AR-10 or Vltor A5 buffer tube, an AR-10 spring, and an AR-15 H3-buffer. This is what AR-10's ship with from the factory.

I also looked at the Rainier Match stuff - I personally wouldn't get one unless it was the Ultramatch (Shilen blank, correct?). I think the standard barrels are made by BHW?

 

[Trochlea]

A couple of thoughts from my recent progress through this. That DPMS handgaurd requires a proprietary tool to install which costs an additional 50 bucks. for around the same price you can buy a generic one through fulton armory Handguard Float Tube, .308 AR, 12" PVR, DPMS Pattern and that one installs with the standard ar 15 armorers wrench ( like everything should, what are you thinking dpms?). Secondly, there are a few threads on the hide adding a jp reduced trigger spring onto the alg with reports of decent effectiveness which at a 10 addition, still puts it at half the price of the g2s and a third of SSAe. Obviously still a step down but a lot cheaper. Along the lines of cheaper, if you are ok with brownells they are having a discount code and i ended up with 50 off 300 this month which really helped me a lot. For a stock i used AR-15/M16 MOE RIFLE STOCK KITS | Brownells over the prs just to save a bit but still be able too use a rear bag in prone/the bench. As far as the bcg, I only found one for 150 and that was this guy WMD .308 NiB-X Bolt Carrier Group - Polished - NiBXBCG.308 - Primary Arms. Not sure on quality, but I have never had a lemon from primary arms. the closest I could get otherwise was from AIM AIM .308/7.62x51 BDG Phosphate Bolt Carrier Group but they are out of stock right now. As for muzzle brake, I would reccomend one. If your barrel is already threaded you could easily pick one up for cheap. DPMS Muzzle Brake Miculek 5/8-24 Thread LR-308 Steel Parkerized for 50, or a stainless steel custom made from Ross Schuler. Muzzle brakes really have helped me stay on target to watch my shot. It may just because i suck, but it really helped me a lot.

3 questions on your build.

You listed a rock river arms stock, I think there is a compatibility issue between them and DPMS recievers. You may be better off with a kit like the one I used or one like it.

Another issue is in regards to gas tube. You said that you wanted a 20 inch barrel but then mentioned a mid length gas system. With that long of a barrel you may be better with a rifle length gas tube and buffer system. If you wanted the carbine length stock you could even use the rifle length with the carbine length tube with either heavy buffer system Heavy Buffers | Products | .308 Carbine or JP - Buffer Springs and Silent Captured Springs both of which are added costs which may be better used in barrel/bcg upgrades.

Initially you listed the handgaurd and the barrel nut seperately, I am pretty sure that most and specifically this hand guard comes with one. I might recommend against the dpms if only because you get to buy a proprietary and otherwise useless wrench. As for the ar 15 conundrum, according to my google-fu you cannot free float a 308 system under an ar15 hand guard. As far as other alternatives, most jump to around 100 like the fulton armory or a host on ebay including several from combat armory, who I couldn't find any info on. you may watch the for sale forum and someone might have something more economical for sale.

 

[Lizardette]

SamNavy: If you want a Maten Upper/Ambi-Lower set, RifleGear.com has the for around $400.

Mega Arms Billet Upper/Lower Ambi Match Set

Trochlea: It looks like the buffer tube is proprietary to the LAR-8, but it looks like their regular AR15 stocks (including the Operator A2) will fit any buffer tube.

 

[Mike_in_FL]

SamNavy: If you want a Maten Upper/Ambi-Lower set, RifleGear.com has the for around $400.

Mega Arms Billet Upper/Lower Ambi Match Set

That looks like an AR15 set. I thought that price was awfully low for .308.

 

[Trochlea]

Good to know about the RRA, I have done much research into their stuff. The comparability issues are kind if insane. As for the hand guard, I never found anything above the dpms and below 200. I hope set like the aero combo drives demand for a better selection of products

 

[Lizardette]

SamNavy: My bad. I remembered seeing the receivers on that site, but apparently I found the wrong set when I was writing that post. They do have the Maten Ambi Lower and Upper set, but the price is $577.

Mega Arms MATEN Billet .308 Upper and Ambi Lower Set

So, still close to your original estimate. Maybe they have some of the other stuff you're looking for and you can combine shipping on it. <shrug> I don't know.

Personally i want to build an M110 type Service Rifle (NRA High-Power, rather than an exact M110 replica) on one of their receiver sets.

 

[SamNavy]

Thanks for the responses to this thread... wish I'd come back and read them before today.

I bought the next round of parts for this gun... yes, the DMPS tube (comes with barrel nut)... wish I'd known about the wrench thing. I hope I can borrow one locally. Somebody in Hapton Roads has to have one. And I bought the guts for a fixed stock... tube/spring/buffer... and a big charge latch that was on sale. I used a $20 off $100 coupon from Midway.

I am going with a rifle-length gas system as well, thanks for the clarification on that.

That BCG from Primary Arms looks like just the ticket... will wait for a sale or coupon code to pop up in a mailer.

Only things left... barrel, receivers, stock body, charge handle, magazine, optics... that's all. Phew, only the expensive stuff remains. My spreadsheet shows that with a Aero receivers/charge handle, a Rainier Arms 20" match, an MOE fixed stock, and the PA BCG, I'm under $1150 in my hands for everything except mount/scope and a magazine.

 

[SamNavy]

And Trochlea... I'm hoping that the combination of the new Aero receivers and whatever PSA releases here pretty soon really drives the innovation for the DPMS platform. PSA had a .308 on display at Shot and it was all the rage for a month... haven't heard anything yet and some people on the various boards have been asking WHEN WHEN WHEN!!!

If PSA comes to market with a $300 receiver set, some FN barrels, and a simple/cheap handguard, it's really gonna open up the segment.

 

[Trochlea]

And Trochlea... I'm hoping that the combination of the new Aero receivers and whatever PSA releases here pretty soon really drives the innovation for the DPMS platform. PSA had a .308 on display at Shot and it was all the rage for a month... haven't heard anything yet and some people on the various boards have been asking WHEN WHEN WHEN!!!

If PSA comes to market with a $300 receiver set, some FN barrels, and a simple/cheap handguard, it's really gonna open up the segment.

I don't think it will ever be as cheap as AR's but I do think all these new competitors is a good thing especially since they are quality companies with good reputations from the small frame game.

I have the primary arms bcg in hand and it looks solid as solid as can be. Gas key screws have been lightly stake once. I'll post pictures once I get the rainier arms barrel and aero upper/lower.

If you are still looking for a stock and want to upgrade Lanbo's Armory has AR 10 LR308 PRS stocks for 175. They are a bit heavier than the regular fixes stock but adjustable and 75 bucks off.

My only complaints thus far in the build is aero precision. I have emailed 2-3 times trying to figure out ffl and shipping stuff and emails are usually one word or otherwise not helpful responses. They are likely busy, but still I have no idea when my orders are shipping and no mechanism to find out besides calling or emailing.

One thing that in particular that I do t understand is that they sold all of these uppers that were not done. Last week I was told that the anodizing was done on Monday and they would ship Wednesday. Yet they had sold these online with no mention of then being out of stock or not even finished yet. Maybe this is normal, just annoyed me.

As far as scopes are concerned, budget scope recommendations usually focus on either fixed power swfa scopes and primary arms 4-14 FFP with matching turrets and reticle. The swfa is a solid choice and needs no intro, the PA scope has been getting good press. Military arms channel used it in their budget build with great success, and several other positive reviews are popping up in favor of the "little scope the could". Both under 300.

 

[CriterionBarrels]

Here's a little food for thought in the barrel category:

.308 AR Barrel

 

[Dr Watson]

Here's a quick clip of my standard dpms.

DPMS ORACLE 308 rapid fire 568 yards!! - YouTube

Just shows with the right load and tech you can expect decent accuracy

 

[SamNavy]

Bought another piece... assembled AERO .308 UPPER RECEIVER.

Still have to buy the stock body (still unsure), lower receiver (probably AERO), charge handle (AERO), BCG (undecided), and barrel (RAINIER ULTRA MATCH). But I guess money-wise I'm 1/3 done money-wise.

Being Tax-Free right now in the Gulf is helping me avoid the wrath of the wife... limited and crappy portcalls are helping too.

I should have it all minus the lower and barrel before I get home... hopefully PSA has their .308 stuff out and I'll have more options.

 

[Redmanss]

yes, the DMPS tube (comes with barrel nut)... wish I'd known about the wrench thing. I hope I can borrow one locally. Somebody in Hapton Roads has to have one.

I should be in town from early until mid October, then back permanently in January. PM me if you have a hard time sourcing the wrench, I have a few (standard, DD, crowfoot for Seekins nuts) along with Geissele Reaction Rods (5.56 and 7.62) which are always available for loan when I can.

 

[SamNavy]

I should be in town from early until mid October, then back permanently in January. PM me if you have a hard time sourcing the wrench, I have a few (standard, DD, crowfoot for Seekins nuts) along with Geissele Reaction Rods (5.56 and 7.62) which are always available for loan when I can.

Helluva offer... With luck, I'll be home around then (currently deployed in 5th Fleet).

 

[BravoSierra]

For the upper and lower, to save some coin you can go with the Tactical Machining. I use their lower, and thought the machining was excellent, and everything just plain works. I also second that of all the things you can skimp on, barrel and BCG is not one of them.

 

[SamNavy]

^I got the upper assembled with forward assist and dust cover for $134 shipped. TM wants $200 for a stripped upper. They also want almost $50 more for their lowers. I'm pretty set on AeroPrecision for my lower unless PSA gets in the game in the next 2 months. They put it all out there at Shot Show, which probably got a lot of other people thinking about how far they were going to be behind unless they got their foot in the door... and then PSA never showed. Maybe they're just stocking a shit-ton of parts before they go up for sale. I'm hoping.

Still doing BCG homework... probably going to end up spending more than I originally budgeted, but I think the advice I'm getting about the 3 things not to skimp on (barrel, bcg, trigger) is good advice.

 

[atomic41]

I have the Lantac Dragon brake and JP silent capture spring on my MATEN. Makes a super smooth shooting .308, I highly recommend this brake.
http://www.lantac-usa.com/

videos of it in action, the second is Annete Watcher shooting it on her 5.56, look at the huge grin on her face.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ze47IIJFceM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amfvY8gPh3A

 

[Birddog6424]

I would have skipped all that and just bought a DPMS Hunter Gen II. The upper and lower on the new Gen II's is more advanced than anything else out there. It comes with a BCG that weighs .2ozs less than JP's Low Mass BCG. It has great accuracy, lightweight, etc. That way you could actually take advantage of a Syrac gas block.

They cost about $1400.

Good luck with your build.