308 Tack Driver Gas Gun

[the monk]

Also, Check in with ECCO machine. He adapts AAC cans to thread onto Dead Air mounts by removing the ratchet teeth and rethreading the inner diameter of the suppressor.

https://m.facebook.com/ECCOmachine/

I know Nick well and he has done work for me in the past. He does outstanding work.

I'm hoping that when Q releases their 556 cans they will make a plan B that works with the new muzzle devices and then I would switch. The cherry bomb is a fire ball on any 556 sbr so I'm waiting for the flash hider option. But the weight savings of the plan B makes you never want to go back to a traditional mount.

 

[MitchK]

What about the GAP10?

 

[tacops1]

Wilson Super Sniper all day long

 

[Qazwsx]

Thanks for this. When did you get the 308? What did your test target look like?

Test targets were well under an inch. Both within the last 3 years. One test target was 260, the other 6.5. Got the 308 barrel separately.

 

[eastexsteve]

Long time lurker here on the hide. I am currently looking for an accurate (easy sub MOA) 308 gas gun.

I bought a 2A Armament XLR-18 for my wife about a year ago, and it shoots great. Super light, under 7 lbs. But, I would think you would have a problem finding anything on the market these days.

 

[JLTX]

I am running a Seekins SP10 (.308), it is tack driver w 175g FGMM. Not a light gun by any means, but it does not miss if I check the boxes on my end. Currently running an Atlas CAL bipod, NF NX8 scope and a TBAC Ultra 7 can. Very comfortable out to 800yds with the current set up. Without shooter error it is a sub 1 MOA rifle.

 

[GUNNER10]

Long time lurker here on the hide. I am currently looking for an accurate (easy sub MOA) 308 gas gun.

I was gifted a SCAR 17 a while back and I never fell in love with it. I was able to sell it for a nice chunk of change and I am looking for a replacement.

My use case is a very accurate AR10 that could also roll into a battle rifle role if needed. My initial thoughts were between an SR25 ACC and a Larue PredatOBR 7.62 both in 16". Seems like I may not get the sub moa accuracy I am looking for out of the SR25 and the 3/4-24 threading does not make my life easy with my current selection of suppressors. The PredatOBR seems like a perfect fit but info as of late is hard to find. I have heard some bad things about their recent guns.

Anybody have any info on the recent PredatOBRs in 7.62? Am I missing any other guns? I would like to keep it under 9lb and lighter if possible so I am shying away from LMT.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

If accuracy is your number one concern, I would really consider a GAP.

I have an mws and acc and they are both awesome shooting guns

 

[theLBC]

Scar 20S would probably be one of the more accurate and reliable options.
you might be surprised how different it is from your scar-h.

 

[Yondering]

I honestly didn't even notice that you were specifically talking about the HK91. I think we have been arguing about two different points and two different rifles and this ones on me.

No I have not tried to reload for the HK91/PSG1/MSG90 was only using it as a comparison because of the indentions It leaves on the brass similar to the LaRue which unfortunately I have a lot of experience with at this time and as far as I know those are the only rifles to ever use that chambering idea.

OK, fair enough. The fluted chambers in the HK91 and clones (like the common PTR91 these days) is often pointed out as something that prevents reloading, but it seems to be the kind of thing that gets repeated a lot without ever trying it.

So what is the actual problem with the Larue? I understand that it has a fluted chamber, but what happens when you try to load brass fired in it (what actually fails or doesn't work)? Pics would be good. I've never owned one or seen the chamber, so I'm curious.

Also what does the chamber design have to do with ripping off case rims, and how is ripping off rims related to modifying the neck diameter in the sizing die? I don't understand the connection you were trying to make with that comment.

 

[bigjake83]

OK, fair enough. The fluted chambers in the HK91 and clones (like the common PTR91 these days) is often pointed out as something that prevents reloading, but it seems to be the kind of thing that gets repeated a lot without ever trying it.

So what is the actual problem with the Larue? I understand that it has a fluted chamber, but what happens when you try to load brass fired in it (what actually fails or doesn't work)? Pics would be good. I've never owned one or seen the chamber, so I'm curious.

Also what does the chamber design have to do with ripping off case rims, and how is ripping off rims related to modifying the neck diameter in the sizing die? I don't understand the connection you were trying to make with that comment.

The LaRue Xtraxn chamber blows the case out so wide that you can't resize the brass in a standard FL it has to be modified and the neck reamed out to .332, If you try to resize the brass in a standard FL die The case will just get stuck and you'll end up ripping the case head off trying to extract it.... Like I've said numerous times above this isn't a one-off coincidence just Google "Reloading larue xtraxn chamber"

 

[kenner]

My 260 predatobr is as accurate as a good bolt gun. My 308 barrel is usually .75”-1” for five. No reliability issues with either 100% suppressed with a tranquilo.

I have seen predatobrs fail, but those were unmaintained class guns that were treated like crap over thousands of rounds. I’ve also seen m110s and sr25s consistently produce 1.5+ moa groups with ab39 or 118. While they are reliable with kac mags, kinda disappointing if you’re paying the price of entry tbh.

X2 on the OBR kenner

 

[Conrad101st]

LMT MWS is really great rig.
I’ve killed a boatload of hogs and a couple deer with it.

Remington corelock:

168SMK with varget (43.2 grain)

178 ELDX
3 on right are no csn
3 in black on left are with can

 

[El_Booblie]

Long time lurker here on the hide. I am currently looking for an accurate (easy sub MOA) 308 gas gun.

I was gifted a SCAR 17 a while back and I never fell in love with it. I was able to sell it for a nice chunk of change and I am looking for a replacement.

My use case is a very accurate AR10 that could also roll into a battle rifle role if needed. My initial thoughts were between an SR25 ACC and a Larue PredatOBR 7.62 both in 16". Seems like I may not get the sub moa accuracy I am looking for out of the SR25 and the 3/4-24 threading does not make my life easy with my current selection of suppressors. The PredatOBR seems like a perfect fit but info as of late is hard to find. I have heard some bad things about their recent guns.

Anybody have any info on the recent PredatOBRs in 7.62? Am I missing any other guns? I would like to keep it under 9lb and lighter if possible so I am shying away from LMT.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Long time lurker here on the hide. I am currently looking for an accurate (easy sub MOA) 308 gas gun.

I was gifted a SCAR 17 a while back and I never fell in love with it. I was able to sell it for a nice chunk of change and I am looking for a replacement.

My use case is a very accurate AR10 that could also roll into a battle rifle role if needed. My initial thoughts were between an SR25 ACC and a Larue PredatOBR 7.62 both in 16". Seems like I may not get the sub moa accuracy I am looking for out of the SR25 and the 3/4-24 threading does not make my life easy with my current selection of suppressors. The PredatOBR seems like a perfect fit but info as of late is hard to find. I have heard some bad things about their recent guns.

Anybody have any info on the recent PredatOBRs in 7.62? Am I missing any other guns? I would like to keep it under 9lb and lighter if possible so I am shying away from LMT.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Long time lurker here on the hide. I am currently looking for an accurate (easy sub MOA) 308 gas gun.

I was gifted a SCAR 17 a while back and I never fell in love with it. I was able to sell it for a nice chunk of change and I am looking for a replacement.

My use case is a very accurate AR10 that could also roll into a battle rifle role if needed. My initial thoughts were between an SR25 ACC and a Larue PredatOBR 7.62 both in 16". Seems like I may not get the sub moa accuracy I am looking for out of the SR25 and the 3/4-24 threading does not make my life easy with my current selection of suppressors. The PredatOBR seems like a perfect fit but info as of late is hard to find. I have heard some bad things about their recent guns.

Anybody have any info on the recent PredatOBRs in 7.62? Am I missing any other guns? I would like to keep it under 9lb and lighter if possible so I am shying away from LMT.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[El_Booblie]

Long time lurker here on the hide. I am currently looking for an accurate (easy sub MOA) 308 gas gun.

I was gifted a SCAR 17 a while back and I never fell in love with it. I was able to sell it for a nice chunk of change and I am looking for a replacement.

My use case is a very accurate AR10 that could also roll into a battle rifle role if needed. My initial thoughts were between an SR25 ACC and a Larue PredatOBR 7.62 both in 16". Seems like I may not get the sub moa accuracy I am looking for out of the SR25 and the 3/4-24 threading does not make my life easy with my current selection of suppressors. The PredatOBR seems like a perfect fit but info as of late is hard to find. I have heard some bad things about their recent guns.

Anybody have any info on the recent PredatOBRs in 7.62? Am I missing any other guns? I would like to keep it under 9lb and lighter if possible so I am shying away from LMT.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Look at JP Arms, Seekins or Aero Precision. I’ve shot all 3 and each were sub MOA from 100 out to 600

 

[El_Booblie]

Look at JP Arms, Seekins Precision or Aero Precision. I’ve shot all 3 and all are sub MOA from 100 too 600 yards

 

[Watrdawg]

Weight is not just about hiking in the desert with 100 lb packs, but it’s also about how fast you can transition your rifle on different targets. If you are doing all of your shooting prone or bench than I guess it does not matter.

In any case, I am a huge Lmt mws fan but I keep my set ups super heavy to shoot prone with. My scar wears an acog and is meant to be runned and gunned

Same here on the MWS. I hunt with mine quite a bit and the weight doesn’t bother me a bit! I’ve also shot it at a 1000 yard course and had no issues. The MWS can be very accurate! Although it is also finicky when shot suppressed.

 

[Flatbush Harry]

Being an old school guy, my gas gun is a SAI M1a Supermatch with a Douglas barrel. The rifle is a 1979 vintage, ser. no. 013xxx, but it shoots pretty well, as per the below target. I'd recommend one of these.

Harry

 

[Billiam1211]

+1 on Craddock Barrel. I built a 308 gas gun on Aero M5 set with a Craddock 20” 308 barrel on a Bartlein cut rifled blank. My rifle has all JP, Geiselle parts and shoots 6-.7 minute of angle. If you don’t want to build something just get a GAP10 or JP LRP-07

 

[Sanwizard]

Just build your own if you want to save money, and do something light. Aero upper and lower, guntech handguards and skeleton stock, Toolcraft NIB bolt carrier, Proof Barrel, CVlife bipod. 1/2 MOA all day. And VERY light

 

[MPD142]

These were shot out of 16” Chromelined ECC and ACC barrels. The APC/PC is non chromed lined and little heavier profile than the CC and generally groups a little tighter. For what they are I’m 100% happy with their performance

 

[Merle]

Are you actually speaking from any experience with a 91, or just repeating something you heard? I have reloaded a LOT of brass from those chambers, with no problem at all. Sure, the fluted chambers make little ridges in the brass, but the sizing die fixes that no problem. I was getting 5-6 loads on brass and still going strong. Impossible, LOL.

The real brass problem with those has nothing to do with the chamber, and everything to do with how they eject brass so far that it's easy to lose it. That's why I didn't get more than 6 loads on any of the brass.

My experience matches yours. I put a factory brass delfector on my PTR91and it stopped the cases from being damaged and flying 20 feet away. I reloaded for it as well. The flutes left on the case from the chamber didn't matter. I've also reloaded 223 brass fired from a LaRue barrel and it didn't matter either. The flutes in that barrel were nowhere as deep as HK flutes.

 

[Twins82]

SWORD INTERNATIONAL are top tier guns

 

[Originalist Trigger]

I bought the OBR so I should be good to go and I agree %100 about the ammo. I may end up canceling the order though. I'm trying to get them to tell me an ETA with no luck. If its going to be 8-12 months I will probably cancel and go with JP which is at 16 weeks.

While I'm a big fan of most LaRue products, thy either can't or won't confirm when you will receive ANY of their products (I expect they lose a lot of business because of this). I'd be SHOCKED if LaRue sends you an OBR in less than a year. I had to wait literally two years for mine (ordered January 2013). The rifle was worth the wait IMO, and it shoots sub-moa from 100-1000+ (Norma 168 gr. Sierra MK HPBT ammo), but the LaRue delays in shipping even basic things like stocks, triggers, buffer tubes, pistol grips, etc... has gotten ridiculous this year. I ordered basic grips and buffer tubes two months ago (some parts they have "Black Friday sale" right now), and I still can't get an answer on when I can expect to receive them. LaRue has good stuff, but you've got to expect the delays and be patient.

 

[B1BRamBob]

My Larue shoots sub MOA with my reloads. Never had an issue with quality loads in my 7.62. Plus I love taking it down, so easy to clean.

 

[AngryKoala]

While I'm a big fan of most LaRue products, thy either can't or won't confirm when you will receive ANY of their products (I expect they lose a lot of business because of this). I'd be SHOCKED if LaRue sends you an OBR in less than a year. I had to wait literally two years for mine (ordered January 2013). The rifle was worth the wait IMO, and it shoots sub-moa from 100-1000+ (Norma 168 gr. Sierra MK HPBT ammo), but the LaRue delays in shipping even basic things like stocks, triggers, buffer tubes, pistol grips, etc... has gotten ridiculous this year. I ordered basic grips and buffer tubes two months ago (some parts they have "Black Friday sale" right now), and I still can't get an answer on when I can expect to receive them. LaRue has good stuff, but you've got to expect the delays and be patient.

They finally said 6-8months, I just have to kick my ffl in the butt to get them the info. At least they do not charge your card until it ships which is nice. I was going to say screw it and go the lmt route but V1 tactical has the Mars h now available August 2021 so I didn't see the point. I dropped the ball and should have grabbed one of the two PredatOBR on the PX but I have ocd issues so I was hesitant.

Apparently they have similar waits on most of their items.

 

[kenner]

My Larue shoots sub MOA with my reloads. Never had an issue with quality loads in my 7.62. Plus I love taking it down, so easy to clean.

Same with my OBR 308, I have at time done 1/2" groups with my reloads as well, most of the time the rifle is 3/4" groups. It is also one of the softest shooting AR10's I have shot.
kenner

 

[theLBC]

happy thanksgiving all you operators!

some of these claims are way off.

i don't want to single out anyone as a liar, but i have shot some of these guns and the groups were like 3"



pro tip: get a gun as bad as you are, but in the opposite direction.

 

[Originalist Trigger]

happy thanksgiving all you operators!

some of these claims are way off.

i don't want to single out anyone as a liar, but i have shot some of these guns and the groups were like 3"



pro tip: get a gun as bad as you are, but in the opposite direction.

Not all rifles, ammo (nor those shooting them) produce the same results.

 

[theLBC]

Not all guns, ammo (nor those shooting them) produce the same results.

exactly.
i was just joking about some people buying a really nice gun and complaining that it doesn't shoot 1/2 moa groups for them.
of course anecdotal examples and factory claims combined gives people a better idea than starting from scratch (given enough examples).

i threw in that joke as an example of how a small polling can show inaccurate results, depending on who wants to participate.
people that can't shoot for shit (or their rifle shoots for shit) aren't likely to post up examples of how crappy their $4k rifle shoots.
oth, people that can shoot great groups with their particular rifle/ammo combo are going to be eager to post up pics.

 

[Originalist Trigger]

exactly.
i was just joking about some people buying a really nice gun and complaining that it doesn't shoot 1/2 moa groups for them.
of course anecdotal examples and factory claims combined gives people a better idea than starting from scratch (given enough examples).

i threw in that joke as an example of how a small polling can show inaccurate results, depending on who wants to participate.
people that can't shoot for shit (or their rifle shoots for shit) aren't likely to post up examples of how crappy their $4k rifle shoots.
oth, people that can shoot great groups with their particular rifle/ammo combo are going to be eager to post up pics.

Spot on... couldn't agree more!

 

[craigos]

To the OP, Just Google "Reloading larue xtraxn chamber".... And you'll see for yourself, there are countless pages on multiple forums with the same complaint.

And bottom line is you WON'T see this issue with JP, GAP, Wilson, KAC, LMT, Seekins and many others

I have 2 JPs and a Larue OBR - all sub half moa - i havent had an issue with my Larue - 308.

 

[MPD142]

I need to start using that ballistic x app.

It's worth the $8 or what ever it cost on the Appstore. Met the creator one day at a match. He's a pretty solid Dude!

 

[Henryrifle]

I have direct expreicne with 3 of the rifles mentioned in previous posts:

GAP 10: @MitchK mentions the GAP 10. That is the rifle that actually made me pick up an AR-10 in .308. A shooting buddy of mine bought one in late 2015. It shot sub MOA out to 600 very consistently and easy shot 1/2 MOA at 100 for 5-shot groups. Great quality and really a joy to shoot.

LMT: After shooting the GAP 10 and a lot of research, I picked up a LMT MWS 308 with the 20" stainless steel barrel. While the LMT is a heavier rifle, it shot just as well as the GAP 10. The LMT has a proprietary gas block making it difficult to suppress and control the gas. There are ways to improve the situation with a heavier buffer and stiffer buffer spring but, that carries its own set of issues. Ultimately I purchased a second bolt carrier and put an adjustable gas key in it. That seems to work fine both suppressed and un-suppressed with a normal weight buffer and spring.

LaRue PredatOBR: Mine was delivered in mid 2016--not sure you'd call that a recent one... I bought both the 20" and the 18" barrel. Both shoot okay--in the .75 to .90 range at 100 yards. Nothing to get excited about. Both of mine have the "XTRAXN" chamber and as @bigjake83 says, it is almost impossible to reload. You can get one reload out of the brass but risk sticking the case in the die with subsequent reloads. I had custom Forster dies built and tried several dies that you would think might work including Dillon, Forster, Redding, RCBS and Lee. There are some early PredatOBRs and OBRs that both shoot in the .5 MOA range and do NOT have the XTRAXN chamber. Wish I had one of those... This rifle has a purpose and is a quality weapon but, for my use case, is over priced for the way it actually performs. As as side note I had a few phone conversations with LaRue about reloading for the rifle. Officially, shooting hand loads voids the warranty and they will not support you regarding reloading. Unofficially they acknowledge re loading is problematic for 'some' people.

I realize that not everyone wants to build their own AR-10/SR25 but there are some great components out there and you could easily get a premium barrel, pair it with quality upper and lower parts and drop in a great trigger and end up with a great shooter. If I were looking to buy an accurate SR25 pattern rifle today, that is the path I would take.

Lots of good options today. Have fun with your choice...

Henryrifle

 

[Sanwizard]

I have direct expreicne with 3 of the rifles mentioned in previous posts:

GAP 10: @MitchK mentions the GAP 10. That is the rifle that actually made me pick up an AR-10 in .308. A shooting buddy of mine bought one in late 2015. It shot sub MOA out to 600 very consistently and easy shot 1/2 MOA at 100 for 5-shot groups. Great quality and really a joy to shoot.

LMT: After shooting the GAP 10 and a lot of research, I picked up a LMT MWS 308 with the 20" stainless steel barrel. While the LMT is a heavier rifle, it shot just as well as the GAP 10. The LMT has a proprietary gas block making it difficult to suppress and control the gas. There are ways to improve the situation with a heavier buffer and stiffer buffer spring but, that carries its own set of issues. Ultimately I purchased a second bolt carrier and put an adjustable gas key in it. That seems to work fine both suppressed and un-suppressed with a normal weight buffer and spring.

LaRue PredatOBR: Mine was delivered in mid 2016--not sure you'd call that a recent one... I bought both the 20" and the 18" barrel. Both shoot okay--in the .75 to .90 range at 100 yards. Nothing to get excited about. Both of mine have the "XTRAXN" chamber and as @bigjake83 says, it is almost impossible to reload. You can get one reload out of the brass but risk sticking the case in the die with subsequent reloads. I had custom Forster dies built and tried several dies that you would think might work including Dillon, Forster, Redding, RCBS and Lee. There are some early PredatOBRs and OBRs that both shoot in the .5 MOA range and do NOT have the XTRAXN chamber. Wish I had one of those... This rifle has a purpose and is a quality weapon but, for my use case, is over priced for the way it actually performs. As as side note I had a few phone conversations with LaRue about reloading for the rifle. Officially, shooting hand loads voids the warranty and they will not support you regarding reloading. Unofficially they acknowledge re loading is problematic for 'some' people.

I realize that not everyone wants to build their own AR-10/SR25 but there are some great components out there and you could easily get a premium barrel, pair it with quality upper and lower parts and drop in a great trigger and end up with a great shooter. If I were looking to buy an accurate SR25 pattern rifle today, that is the path I would take.

Lots of good options today. Have fun with your choice...

Henryrifle

Yup. Thata the path I took. Worked out quite well.

 

[LRRPF52]

When I took my GAP-built .260 Rem out to stretch its legs for the first time after I developed some loads, it shot 2.5” 5rd group at 500yds with 130gr Berger VLD (before the AR-Hybrid even existed), and shot a 9.25” group at 1000yds where I purposely ignored a wind call to see how much deviation that ignored call would create at 1000yds. The first rounds before the wind velocity increase were 4.5” from each other.

I also determined the downward angle of trajectory by shooting through a kid’s crib mattress box with 2 layers, with large shoot n c pasted to it. The angle was so flat, I couldn’t believe it after many years of shooting .308 Win.

This was with a Bartlein 22” barrel with a custom profile I spec’d with them, where there isn’t a drastic drop-off from the shank to the barrel under the handguard. This was before they offered the first GAP-10, which was built on what looked like POF receivers. GAP later changed to Seekins receivers for the GAP-10. I just sent them DPMS receivers, a JP handguard, DPMS BCG, LPK, rifle RET, A2 stock, LR-308 rifle buffer and spring, and told them to perform the same magic they did on a previous .308 Win Obermeyer 22” build (also a laser).

 

[LRRPF52]

If I could go back in time, I think I would just skip the large frames and build more Grendels and definitely some 6mm AR precision guns.

Now that 6.5 Grendel and 6mm ARC have factory support, it’s a much easier decision for the consumer.

 

[Henryrifle]

If I could go back in time, I think I would just skip the large frames and build more Grendels and definitely some 6mm AR precision guns.

Now that 6.5 Grendel and 6mm ARC have factory support, it’s a much easier decision for the consumer.

@LRRPF52: I was tempted to say exactly what you said, specifically about the 6mm ARC, but decided not to wonder too far off the topic. However, I couldn't agree with you more and really think that your advice is spot on.

Unless you just really want a SR25, any of the options you mention will do exactly the same thing at a lighter weight, lower recoil and with plenty of factory supported ammo options.

Great advice!

Henryrifle

 

[YammyMonkey]

I know they're not on your list, but this is pretty normal for my Seekins SP10M. 5 rounds of Hornady 308 168gr ELD-M at 100 yds. 1/4"squares.

The standard SP10s are supposed to shoot just as well.

 

[fanninland]

Does a LWRCI REPR figure into this conversation?

 

[3GN_Lurker]

Definitely look at the JP LRP07. You can't go wrong with anything JP makes.