338 Lapua alternative?

[Fenix Mike]

So before going into this, I LOVE the round, however im finding that for shooting steel at a mile, Im able to get the same results from my 300 win and load for less than half the price. The 338 obviously makes more noise when it hits (especially at 1000 yards), but at the mile steel, I was able to get more hits with the 300 win. These both being my first "extended range" rifles, I really didn't know a whole lot about them, but wanted to stick with the larger and heavier bullets mainly because the guys I shoot with that are running 6.5mm, or anything sub 30 cal, generally cant hear the steel hits at 1 mile, and have a very hard time spotting them, where as its plain as day with both of mine whether it hits or misses.

Is there a similar round that will give me a flatter trajectory or better hits with similar energy, in a round I can easily obtain brass and components for, or is the next step really a jump into a chey tac, barrett 416 etc? I had 300 Norma previously, but im getting 3000 fps with my win mag using 208 gr bullets, I just cant imagine id see a whole lot of change with a slightly heavier 30 cal bullet and a minimal velocity increase.

To be fair, there is nothing wrong with the 338 Lapua, but with an almost identical trajectory and similar velocity at 1600m (338 Lapua retains 100 fps more and comes in about .8 mils less drop), it just seems silly to load two different calibers with one costing significantly more. The 300 win is only about 700 lbs of energy at 1 mile, where the 338 is closer to 1300 lbs, so the louder hit is nice, but I hear the 300 win fine even in heavier wind.

 

[BurnOut]

I dunno about easily found brass, etc..., but something like the 7mm-300 Norma Improved might be worth a look: https://westtexordnance.com/7mm-300-norma-improved/

 

[Fenix Mike]

I dunno about easily found brass, etc..., but something like the 7mm-300 Norma Improved might be worth a look: https://westtexordnance.com/7mm-300-norma-improved/

Ive looked at the incredible results of a lot of the more custom rounds, I was just hoping whatever savings I offset by bullet/powder cost wasn't put back into the cost of (if I can find it) brass. I may just scrap the idea altogether and stick with 300 win until I push to the next step, but the furthest my shooting area goes is 2,000 meters and it will be next year at earliest before I drag a piece of steel out that far.

 

[lte82]

http://longrangeshootingsa.co.za/doc/300wm_vs_338_lapua_2_300_338_Rev1.pdf

 

[Fenix Mike]

http://longrangeshootingsa.co.za/doc/300wm_vs_338_lapua_2_300_338_Rev1.pdf

Awesome link! Wish I had read that before I invested in 338 Lapua. I am currently running the 208 ELD bullets with some fantastic luck, I will have to try some of the Bergers next time I run low. I was anticipating burning through this barrel before april (I shoot quite often and figured 1500-2000 rounds max from a factory Remington 700 barrel) and have enough bullets/powder to get me to the end, but after I get it re-barreled with a precision setup, I was going to try some other bullets.

 

[IanHusaberg]

I have a Barrett MRAD in 338 Lapua I have a 24" proof barrel. I'm happy with its performance. I have been considering a 300 norma barrel. Looking into barrel life, not look so good(1200rds.) Looks like I might be falling back to a 300 min mag? Barrel life is better, around 2500-3000 rounds. I'd like to shoot the 230 hybrid and will. The Hornady 225 eld-m is looking like a more viable practice/plinking round at the $.30-.35 a bullet over $.70-.80 of the hybrid.

I have been looking into a more value oriented solution to shoot than the 338 as well. I'm stuck with 300 norma or 300 win mag, being MRAD choices. The military choose the 300 Norma over the 300 win mag. I don't see any caliber in-between that offers value per bullet, in general? It looks like the 300 Norma is as expensive(as 338 LM) to shoot when you add in barrel wear/berger hybrids, over 300 win mag with 225 eld-m's.

 

[Fursniper]

You might consider converting your LM to an Ackley improved. Mine gets me to 2500 yds with 256 flatlines on top of 102 grains of Retumbo going 3200fps. That's out of a 32" Bartlien however.

 

[Fenix Mike]

I have a Barrett MRAD in 338 Lapua I have a 24" proof barrel. I'm happy with its performance. I have been considering a 300 norma barrel. Looking into barrel life, not look so good(1200rds.) Looks like I might be falling back to a 300 min mag? Barrel life is better, around 2500-3000 rounds. I'd like to shoot the 230 hybrid and will. The Hornady 225 eld-m is looking like a more viable practice/plinking round at the $.30-.35 a bullet over $.70-.80 of the hybrid.

I have been looking into a more value oriented solution to shoot than the 338 as well. I'm stuck with 300 norma or 300 win mag, being MRAD choices. The military choose the 300 Norma over the 300 win mag. I don't see any caliber in-between that offers value per bullet, in general? It looks like the 300 Norma is as expensive(as 338 LM) to shoot when you add in barrel wear/berger hybrids, over 300 win mag with 225 eld-m's.

Youre exactly where im basically at. I had a Mrad in 300 Norma and after the cost of brass, powder etc, and then calculating how little difference there really was over 300 win for what I do, I sold the setup and went 300 win. I wanted to get a 338 thinking id gain some solid distance, and after having both side by side, while the 338 DOES hit harder, and stretch out a bit more, I can shoot the win mag for hours and be fine, and as stated, 31 cents a bullet for my ELDs with 68 grains of powder, versus the 70 cents a piece for the Bergers and 92 grains of powder.

 

[Fenix Mike]

You might consider converting your LM to an Ackley improved. Mine gets me to 2500 yds with 256 flatlines on top of 102 grains of Retumbo going 3200fps. That's out of a 32" Bartlien however.

Possibly some day, I don't want to modify the barrett more than I have to (barrel is 3/4x20 and both 338 cans I have need to be 3/4x24), but that's the main reason ive been debating getting out of it before I have the barrel rethreaded. If I get into a custom caliber someday, then im going to start researching these more exclusive calibers with custom throats and such. While I am an avid shooter and enjoy trying to go out a few times a month, im still new to precision reloading and getting into custom dies, measuring bullets to the throat (been just doing mag length), and some of the custom modifications to each caliber. Currently I just take the chrono out, run ladders with a couple different bullets and powders, and try to get the best velocity and accuracy combo, but the extent of my collection is all factory barreled actions at this time.

 

[BurnOut]

http://longrangeshootingsa.co.za/doc/300wm_vs_338_lapua_2_300_338_Rev1.pdf

That is VERY interesting reading, and in fact puts some numbers around some cartridge selections that I have made (partially due to research, partially due to intuition). I have a 26" 300 WM setup, and a 30" .338 LM AI setup, so in my case there is a larger gap in performance between the 30-caliber and 338-caliber chamberings than is described in the article. Further, I am in the process of putting together a 26" .338 WM setup from which I intend to shoot the 250 gr Bergers at close to 2900; this will be a lighter, hunter-weight setup, and should compliment the others nicely.

 

[Fenix Mike]

You guys are killing me...

You're discussing the cost concerns of bullets, measured in so many cents per round, within a discussion that revolves around $5,000+ rifles - probably closer to $10,000 once fully dressed.

LOL

Its not the cost, its the need... If both rifles shoot the "same" (as far as my use is concerned), its quite a bit more expensive to scratch the surface of my steel targets with a 338 Lapua than it is a 300 win. Same with comparing my 208 ELDs to the likely significantly better 225 Bergers. If it works wonderful now, will I really see a gain if I pay twice as much for bullets?

 

[IanHusaberg]

You guys are killing me...

You're discussing the cost concerns of bullets, measured in so many cents per round, within a discussion that revolves around $5,000+ rifles - probably closer to $10,000 once fully dressed.

LOL

NO. I'm talking about a barrel for the MRAD thats $1,338.00 for 300 Norma, that costs about a dollar for the barrel wear and a dollar for the reloaded cartridge. Or, 300 min mag for barrel $1,100 that costs about $.50 per shot in barrel wear and $1.00per reloaded with eld-m or $1.50 berger hybrid. With 338 LM its $.50 per shot in barrel wearing $1.50 per round with 285 eld-m, $2.00 per 300 berger hybrid.
prices ballparked, not exact.

Costs add up when shooting! It's not just bullets, brass, primers, powder. It's barrel wear. Who wants to buy a shot out $1,388.00 MRAD conversion? I guess thats the cost of a Barret MRAD. What its about is return on investment in said bullet, that can give you a return in velocity and end goal(how far can you hit)= right tool for the job.

I'm sure you shoot Lathed copper solid bullet a $2.00-3.00 a piece for just the bullet and think nothing of it and we're just whinny bitches.
If you know of a magical caliber in a affordable rifle system that gets you 1st round hit past a 1000-2000 yards and is repeatable. Why didn't you contribute to the thread. I'm all ears.

Your post count says it all!

 

[BangBangBlatBlat]

I don't think you're going to find anything that much better short of a .375 caliber rifle.

 

[spaniel]

If you're hunting, the 338 and 300 are miles apart even at much shorter distances...but apparently you're not.

In my experience the 300 runs just fine to a mile, and a good shooter can handle the wind fine. I will tell you, once you move much further, the two separate quickly. I was at a 2000 yard match largely shot with 300WMs and 338 Lapua/Edges and the separation point was right around 1700-1800 yards. Past 1800 the 300s did not do well at all.

If I were you I'd be content with the 300 for banging steel unless you're competing, hunting, or moving out further. It's the most economical choice.

 

[Fenix Mike]

If you're hunting, the 338 and 300 are miles apart even at much shorter distances...but apparently you're not.

In my experience the 300 runs just fine to a mile, and a good shooter can handle the wind fine. I will tell you, once you move much further, the two separate quickly. I was at a 2000 yard match largely shot with 300WMs and 338 Lapua/Edges and the separation point was right around 1700-1800 yards. Past 1800 the 300s did not do well at all.

If I were you I'd be content with the 300 for banging steel unless you're competing, hunting, or moving out further. It's the most economical choice.

I just got the steel out to a mile last week, prior to, 1100 yards was the furthest. It was quite a bit easier than I imagined, however I can't drive out to my steel and the terrain is quite rough (took about 5 hours to get this target in place and two people to hike it in!) so I can't say the 2000m steel is in the near future, probably next year at earliest. Maybe I will hang on to the 338 for a while and just get used to it... I don't hunt or do any competition shooting, just pleasure plinking at long distances.

 

[Dirty D]

Does anyone have any performance data on the 30 Nosler yet?

 

[IanHusaberg]

Does anyone have any performance data on the 30 Nosler yet?

Now your talking!! Isn't their a 33 Nosler as well? Don't know much about either? Maybe some one can enlighten us?

28 Nosler?

 

[Dirty D]

Nosler claims the 30 Nos will push a 210 accubond at 3000 fps buuuut they don’t say what barrel length.

http://www.30nosler.com/

 

[BurnOut]

Nosler claims the 30 Nos will push a 210 accubond at 3000 fps buuuut they don’t say what barrel length.

http://www.30nosler.com/

This is one of my absolute pet peeves... MV info without barrel length info. If it's out of a 24-26" barrel, then great!! That's something that I can use. But if its out of a 48" test barrel, I couldn't care less.

For reference, Nosler publishes a fair amount of load data here: https://load-data.nosler.com/

 

[WickedDaddy]

NO. I'm talking about a barrel for the MRAD thats $1,338.00 for 300 Norma, that costs about a dollar for the barrel wear and a dollar for the reloaded cartridge. Or, 300 min mag for barrel $1,100 that costs about $.50 per shot in barrel wear and $1.00per reloaded with eld-m or $1.50 berger hybrid. With 338 LM its $.50 per shot in barrel wearing $1.50 per round with 285 eld-m, $2.00 per 300 berger hybrid.
prices ballparked, not exact.

Costs add up when shooting! It's not just bullets, brass, primers, powder. It's barrel wear. Who wants to buy a shot out $1,388.00 MRAD conversion? I guess thats the cost of a Barret MRAD. What its about is return on investment in said bullet, that can give you a return in velocity and end goal(how far can you hit)= right tool for the job.

I'm sure you shoot Lathed copper solid bullet a $2.00-3.00 a piece for just the bullet and think nothing of it and we're just whinny bitches.
If you know of a magical caliber in a affordable rifle system that gets you 1st round hit past a 1000-2000 yards and is repeatable. Why didn't you contribute to the thread. I'm all ears.

Your post count says it all!

Wow Ian, so serious. I was making a joke of sorts. Breathe my friend, it's all in fun.

I'm retired and what use to be a profession is now a hobby, and an expensive one at that. So I don't see barrels and etc as investments, unless you count blowing money on the pleasure of a hobby an investment. In that case, my ROI is good for me. If I wear one out, that means I've had as much fun with it as possible and thus, the money I spent was worth it. I like quality as much as the next guy and I'm willing to plunk down some cash for it. Of course, my wife thinks it's a waste. But then, I think expensive shoes and purses are a waste. It's all relative.

No, I don't post much. This forum provides some ideas, a connection with like minded individuals, etc. But I stay pretty busy. I occasionally toss in my worthless opinion, which probably only matters to me. And I don't reload. I use to reload. Now I just shoot a lot. I understand the esoteric allure of reloading and I respect the science. But I like just grabbing a box of quality rounds at the store and killing paper, milk jugs and steel plates. I spent a career being REALLY serious. Now I just want to have fun.

So my apologies, Ian. Be well.

 

[brianf]

all joking aside you have learned a lesson really quick...the 300 win mag is enough for 99% of us.
the return once you get bigger than a WM unless you are going past 2000 regularly is not worth it

Bigger Action/bigger $ per round/ bigger boom=flinch, and not so much bigger scores
we were hitting ground hogs at a yearly meet @1750 (dog town) with WM's a long time ago.

yet some people make it sound like the WM all of a sudden comes out of the barrel and drops to the ground. lol

how are your skills (not being a jerk), if we all shot lasers that dont get effected by the wind or drop why would we shoot past 50 yards.
it really is fun shooting some of the new solids because the numbers are crazy but are we out in the field to just hit the steel or are we out there honing our craft.

shooting any cartridge at the last 15-20% of its performance envelope is the hard part, better cartridges and bullets just extend that distance.
unless the previous cartridge was unreliable, but then the the last 15-20% of its envelope are a lot closer than we expected or wanted.

shooting inside that distance (unless shooting for score) is a "waste" in some respects.
if we are out there to just hit steel tape a bunch of dimes on a target at 100 and give that a try (actually alot harder then you think)
if we are out there to push ourselves and record data for future education thats a different story.

correct tool for the correct job, that makes it repeatable and that makes accuracy in sorts.

 

[Fenix Mike]

From my point of view; if I can hit the target for $.50, why spend a $1.00 to do the same? At $.50, It's two "gotcha motherf**ker!" for the price of one.

You share my equal value of money Im going to sell the 338... might keep the components though in case I get back into it next year. Im quite impressed with the factory 5R barreled 700 action im running, but im pretty excited to toss a premium barrel on there and see what its really capable of!

 

[orkan]

all joking aside you have learned a lesson really quick...the 300 win mag is enough for 99% of us.

I'll take that a step further and say that it's hard to justify anything over 7mm. When you compare a 300WM to a 7LRM pushing 180's or 195's... it's hard to make a case for larger calibers. The big 7's like a 28 nosler or 7NM Imp. take it even farther. It'll handle ELR target work as well as lay a serious hit on any big game north america has to offer.

In instances where more punch is needed, a 300NM with 230's is nearly unbeatable.

It's been several years since I've recommended a 338LM to anyone from a practicality standpoint. From a nostalgia standpoint, we still sell a lot of 338LM's. ... because "I wan't one" is reason enough.

 

[IanHusaberg]

From my point of view; if I can hit the target for $.50, why spend a $1.00 to do the same? At $.50, It's two "gotcha motherf**ker!" for the price of one.

Thanks for the apology. I"ll take it, its not really needed.

I can understand poking a little fun, I do stir the pot around here from time to time.

I think you understand where we are coming from. Right tool for the right job.

 

[Fenix Mike]

all joking aside you have learned a lesson really quick...the 300 win mag is enough for 99% of us.
the return once you get bigger than a WM unless you are going past 2000 regularly is not worth it

Bigger Action/bigger $ per round/ bigger boom=flinch, and not so much bigger scores
we were hitting ground hogs at a yearly meet @1750 (dog town) with WM's a long time ago.

yet some people make it sound like the WM all of a sudden comes out of the barrel and drops to the ground. lol

how are your skills (not being a jerk), if we all shot lasers that dont get effected by the wind or drop why would we shoot past 50 yards.
it really is fun shooting some of the new solids because the numbers are crazy but are we out in the field to just hit the steel or are we out there honing our craft.

shooting any cartridge at the last 15-20% of its performance envelope is the hard part, better cartridges and bullets just extend that distance.
unless the previous cartridge was unreliable, but then the the last 15-20% of its envelope are a lot closer than we expected or wanted.

shooting inside that distance (unless shooting for score) is a "waste" in some respects.
if we are out there to just hit steel tape a bunch of dimes on a target at 100 and give that a try (actually alot harder then you think)
if we are out there to push ourselves and record data for future education thats a different story.

correct tool for the correct job, that makes it repeatable and that makes accuracy in sorts.

I shoot my 18 inch OBR in 308 to 1100 yards and its rare that I miss, so I understand pushing rounds past their intended range, but I had the 300 win and 338 before I had the target out to 1 mile, so it was more of a "now that I have this 338, I need a further target", where as it was fun picking the place on the 1100 yard target I wanted to hit over and over with the win mag. I guess you read things on here with different skill levels, different ammo types, different rifles, and expect it will be more challenging to do something, and then after I do it, it wasn't nearly as bad as I thought it would be. Only took me 2 rounds to get on target at 1 mile with the win mag with putting a few at 1100 yards first to check dope for the day. Next week im going to hit it early and play some more, but my buddy and I were both cooked after spending 5 hours hiking the steel out there, then humping rifles into our spot to shoot.

 

[Dirty D]

This is one of my absolute pet peeves... MV info without barrel length info. If it's out of a 24-26" barrel, then great!! That's something that I can use. But if its out of a 48" test barrel, I couldn't care less.

For reference, Nosler publishes a fair amount of load data here: https://load-data.nosler.com/

I read the load data table for the 210 Accubond in your link and Nosler doesn’t bother to mention barrel length anywhere in there, I would ASSUME that they got their data from a 26” barrel.

The 30 Nosler would seem to fall right in the middle between the 300WM and 338LM but I would like to see some end user data that lines up with what their marketing department publishes before I commit to the cartridge. Is anyone besides Nosler making brass for it yet? Nosler brass prices could make a Lapua rep blush and I am leery of being hostage to one source.

 

[BurnOut]

I read the load data table for the 210 Accubond in your link and Nosler doesn’t bother to mention barrel length anywhere in there, I would ASSUME that they got their data from a 26” barrel.

Looking at the 30 Nosler 210 gr load data, it looks like they used a 26" Pac-Nor (right hand side, two lines under the S.D. value).

 

[stwcattle]

I would have to go with 300NM over the 30 Nosler. My 210 VLD accuracy/hunting velocity out of my Norma is 3148 out of a 26'' barrel.

 

[Birddog6424]

I'll take that a step further and say that it's hard to justify anything over 7mm. When you compare a 300WM to a 7LRM pushing 180's or 195's... it's hard to make a case for larger calibers. The big 7's like a 28 nosler or 7NM Imp. take it even farther. It'll handle ELR target work as well as lay a serious hit on any big game north america has to offer.

In instances where more punch is needed, a 300NM with 230's is nearly unbeatable.

It's been several years since I've recommended a 338LM to anyone from a practicality standpoint. From a nostalgia standpoint, we still sell a lot of 338LM's. ... because "I wan't one" is reason enough.

Great advice there.

I retired the 338 LM. It beats you up too much when you send a lot of rounds downrange. 300 Win Mag and 7mm are great performers, tried and true.

When it came time for me to choose what I really wanted to run I landed on the 300 Norma Mag, chambered specifically for the 230gr Berger Hybrid. I run a 26 Proof carbon barrel 1/9" twist (this doubles as my hunting rifle) with a Defiance Deviant action and I can shoot it all day. I'm getting 2994fps over 92.6grs of RE33, it doesn't go sub till past 2100 yards at my elevation, and it still has 1000ftlbs of energy at a mile. And I only pay about $50 for 100ct of bullets. I definitely think the 300 Norma is one of the really good choices for an ELR rifle.

The 230gr Hybrid at around 3000fps is a hammer...

 

[IanHusaberg]

Great advice there.

I retired the 338 LM. It beats you up too much when you send a lot of rounds downrange. 300 Win Mag and 7mm are great performers, tried and true.

When it came time for me to choose what I really wanted to run I landed on the 300 Norma Mag, chambered specifically for the 230gr Berger Hybrid. I run a 26 Proof carbon barrel 1/9" twist (this doubles as my hunting rifle) with a Defiance Deviant action and I can shoot it all day. I'm getting 2994fps over 92.6grs of RE33, it doesn't go sub till past 2100 yards at my elevation, and it still has 1000ftlbs of energy at a mile. And I only pay about $50 for 100ct of bullets. I definitely think the 300 Norma is one of the really good choices for an ELR rifle.

The 230gr Hybrid at around 3000fps is a hammer...

How many rounds do you have down your barrel? How many rounds do you think your proof barrel will last at the rate you are shooting?

 

[Dirty D]

I would have to go with 300NM over the 30 Nosler. My 210 VLD accuracy/hunting velocity out of my Norma is 3148 out of a 26'' barrel.

As stated above the 300NM with 230 Bergers beats the 338LM but when you figure in the cost of brass and barrel life it tanks the economics side of this discussion, if cost isn't a factor then the 300NM is definitely king of the hill until you jump up into the Cheytac family of cartridges.

eta: A factor in favor of the 300NM is that the cartridge was originally designed to run in a standard length long action with the bolt face opened up, Jimmie Sloan used to post here as Have None created what we now know as the Norma magnums with the intention of getting Lapua magnum performance out of a standard long action.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.338_Norma_Magnum

 

[Fenix Mike]

Great advice there.

I retired the 338 LM. It beats you up too much when you send a lot of rounds downrange. 300 Win Mag and 7mm are great performers, tried and true.

When it came time for me to choose what I really wanted to run I landed on the 300 Norma Mag, chambered specifically for the 230gr Berger Hybrid. I run a 26 Proof carbon barrel 1/9" twist (this doubles as my hunting rifle) with a Defiance Deviant action and I can shoot it all day. I'm getting 2994fps over 92.6grs of RE33, it doesn't go sub till past 2100 yards at my elevation, and it still has 1000ftlbs of energy at a mile. And I only pay about $50 for 100ct of bullets. I definitely think the 300 Norma is one of the really good choices for an ELR rifle.

The 230gr Hybrid at around 3000fps is a hammer...

It falls just in the middle of where I have my 300 win and 338 Lapua (closer to the Lapua). My win mag is only a 24 inch barrel, so I thought by evening the odds and doing a 27-28 inch barrel, I might get another 75-100 FPS out of it.

Heres the 300 win and 338 Lapua tables for my current setup, it was just about dead nuts on until the ammo heated up in the sun a bit, then I dialed down .2 mils

If I added 100 FPS to my 300 win, the gap is much closer on elevation between the 338 Lapua, although still giving up a fair amount of energy (obviously theoretical until I actually get a barrel and test it)

 

[Potss]

Another vote for 7mm-something (I like the norma improved). It is just the sweet spot for weight/BC ratio, just like 6mm is for short action.

 

[lte82]

What pushed me to 338 NM over the 300 NM was energy and barrel life, and over the 338 LM for both claims of better barrel life and inherent accuracy. Splitting hairs in terms of wind drift or whatever at a mile just wasn't a factor. Missing a wind call by 1 mph at a mile is a miss on target with any of these cartridges with any bullet you use. The human element is the weakest link in the system.

 

[stwcattle]

Another vote for 7mm-something (I like the norma improved). It is just the sweet spot for weight/BC ratio, just like 6mm is for short action.

I have a gunsmith/hunting friend who shoots a 7-300NM for long range hunting. The cartridge is a hammer on elk. I think he uses Berger 180 hunting VLD's. Very impressive cartridge. When I was considering a long range elk rifle, I went with the 300NM due to Applied Ballistics ammunition. For now, I made the right choice but at rebarreling time, I'll have to spend a little time thinking on the 7-300 Norma.

 

[Dirty D]

The 30-375 Ruger gives very close to Norma Mag performance and the brass is less than $.50/piece.

 

[steve123]

I have a 30-375R wildcat that has the same capacity as a 300 Weatherby.

30" barrel at 9 twist, 225 ELDM/.78BC at 2960 fps - just for comparison. 1500 rounds approx through the barrel and still very accurate. I was going to go 28N for the next barrel but from what I read the barrel heats fast and the throat goes quick, so I'll stay with the 30 which seems so well balanced in those aspects.

 

[Jedi]

Nosler offerings seem to be answer, shame there is so little info.
7mm will do everything you need

 

[Birddog6424]

How many rounds do you have down your barrel? How many rounds do you think your proof barrel will last at the rate you are shooting?

I have about 250 rounds on this barrel. I figure I'll probably put about 1000 to 1500 rounds a year through this rifle.

Durability really depends on this particular barrel. My gunsmith is running a nearly identical set up (steel Proof barrel) swapped his at 1500 after chasing the lands a few times. So I'm good with a barrel swap a year on this rifle.

 

[Clark]

If you are into playing with Quickload and Quicktarget to play "what if?" there are a couple of real spoilers:
The 338 Lapua loaded to the threshold of long brass live and backed off a reasonable safety margin is barely different from the 338 Win Mag treated the same.
The 22-250 Sav loaded to the threshold of long brass live and backed off a reasonable safety margin is barely different from the 223 Remington treated the same [with bullets that will stabilize in factory 22-250 rifle twist rates].
This information will not win you any friends.

 

[Fenix Mike]

I ended up selling the 338 Lapua (components were just listed if anyone needs them!), and I might just look into a "more accurate" 300 win setup since im still on the factory Remington barrel. Id like to try the Berger bullets and see if it helps out at long range.

 

[AMF]

Now your talking!! Isn't their a 33 Nosler as well? Don't know much about either? Maybe some one can enlighten us?

28 Nosler?

I just started playing with 28 nosler. I was shooting 160 grain accubond factory loads out of a 26” barrel at 3215 avg. I haven’t started reloading yet. I got the factory ammo for about same cost as brass I’m still shooting through the factory ammo.

 

[White Mamba]

You might consider converting your LM to an Ackley improved. Mine gets me to 2500 yds with 256 flatlines on top of 102 grains of Retumbo going 3200fps. That's out of a 32" Bartlien however.

Fursniper, have you tried other powders ?
My straight 338 lapua with 256 flatlines goes 3150 with 98.7 gr of h1000, I'm 31 or 32 barrell as well

 

[jaycoux]

David Tubb is going to release a new cartridge in the next few months, a 33XC. Should be a significant improvement in performance compared to the 338LM. It can also be necked up to 375 if you want to go that route.

He has discussed the case and rationale on his Facebook if you want more info, or you could call his company, superior shooting and ask to speak with him about it.

 

[TorF]

A 30-06 ackimp with a 1-9, or better 1-8", 26" barrel can push a 198gr Warner Flatline, G1=.838, to 2900+fps for banging steel at one mile+. The bullet is supersonic to app 2200yds. It doesn't get more economical than that with a 4000+ round barrellife and conventional bullets for ranges up to 1000yds.

There is also a very interesting thread shooting the 198gr Flatline out of a 308win in this forum. Supersonic to 1mile+. Just put a 1-8" barrel in a M24, long action, and see what happens..

 

[Bradu]

I won't be trying any other flatlines after my experience with the 6.5 flatlines. I know I'm among many that can't get them to shoot. I will stick with traditional bullets even if other people are having better luck with the other calibers.

 

[918v]

I’ve been shooting a TRG42 300WM for a few years, a 208 Amax @ 2930 initially and now a 225ELD @ 2850. It’s cheap to shoot. Accurate. The recoil isn’t bad.

I’m currently developing a 225@2950 load. That’s the fastest it will shoot with easy bolt lift. Brass life is a non issue being it is so cheap and available. Hornady is the best bang for your buck.

I learned a couple of things when reloading 225’s: First, stay off the lands. It is amazing how much more powder you can load .040” off. People often handicap themselves thinking they need to be close to the lands for best accuracy and ES. Not necessarily so. This is America. You can manipulate everything to get your rifle shooting right. Second, use FC210 standard primers with H1000 and Retumbo. They reduce pressure and enable you to load more powder. Third, the size of your chamber matters a lot. A SAAMI chamber is smaller than a CIP chamber. Norma brass is thinner than Federal. Do the math. If you want to get into the upper accuracy node in a SAAMI chamber, you’re going to have to use Norma cases, otherwise you’ll be blowing primers or settling for low velocity. Finally, H1000 is a weebit too fast for 225’s. It goes from mild to wild real quick if you’re on the lands. Retumbo is much better suited for this bullet. The problem is Retumbo is a lot more bulky and poses a problem with bullet seating unless you make room via long drop tubes or Norma case volume or long oal or a combination thereof.

50 cent 300WM load that runs with a $1.50 338

 

[madppcs]

I have a similar situation. I have a private 1500yd range that Im going to extend to 1 mile. Me and my buddy both have built 300wm's and shoot the 208ELD. We both struggle at 1500 to be consistent. The wind at my place is extremely unpredictable and we are shooting from the top of a hill, across 2 valleys and 2 hills. So the bullet path is going through wind streams WELL above ground level and we have absolutely no visual reference of direction and speed.

I didnt think the 338LM would be a big enough jump to justify the price so I bought a damn 50BMG. My reloading experience is extremely limited, but the guys that reload the 750grn Hornady bullets are consistently sending those to ridiculous distances. IM sure you guys that are in the reloading world can read the Hornady 750 load data and know what it means. (Its obvious I dont reload.) And dont forget about the 416 Barrett.

And to the OP, I know exactly what your talking about when it comes to an audible impact on steel. When my 50 hits my 1500yd plate, it sounds like someone is back there shooting it point blank with a 308.

I dont think any of the above mentioned calibers will deliver energy like a 50BMG. I bought the Barrett M99 with a 32" barrel for 3800 and already had a scope. Right now Im shooting regular FMJ and the APIT ammo and 1500 is just as easy as 500yds. Once I get my reloading setup Ill add the Hornady 750grn to my selection of bullets and Ill probably double the range that Im consistent at now.

 

[kthomas]

I won't be trying any other flatlines after my experience with the 6.5 flatlines. I know I'm among many that can't get them to shoot. I will stick with traditional bullets even if other people are having better luck with the other calibers.

You need to have a shorter freebore for the flatlines, or you are probably going to have issues having them work.

Did you get your chamber cut with a shorter freebore specifically for the flatlines?

 

[kthomas]

Another issue with the flatlines is that they are not designed to transition from transonic to subsonic. They don't handle the transition as well as jacketed bullets would. Plus the splash/signature is less.

In a .30 cal or lesser caliber, it would be hard to justify using the flatlines.