.338 Lapua Magnum

[g3ninfinite]

I'm going to start gearing up for my Barrett MRAD purchase.

Is Lapua brass still the go to in this caliber?

Also for the 1500m+ crowd are you preferring the 230gr, 250gr, or 300gr?

Also are there any worthwhile solids available for the LM that can be used with a 1 in 10 twist barrel?

 

[phreakmode]

Re: .338 Lapua Magnum

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: g3ninfinite</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm going to start gearing up for my Barrett MRAD purchase.

Is Lapua brass still the go to in this caliber?

Also for the 1500m+ crowd are you preferring the 230gr, 250gr, or 300gr?

Also are there any worthwhile solids available for the LM that can be used with a 1 in 10 twist barrel? </div></div>

Lapua brass is the way to go
300gr Bergers

As to the solids, I have had ok success with the Boretechs, but my chamber was not cut to allow them to be loaded as long as they should so I get large devations in velocity. 300gr Bergers are what I am limited to at the moment, it's a shame though as the lighter weight solids have less felt recoil.

 

[g3ninfinite]

Re: .338 Lapua Magnum

Thanks phreak. What twist are you using?

 

[Beale338]

Re: .338 Lapua Magnum

With the Lapua brass you may also want to try 300gr SMK's,
I am using these with a 1/10 twist. I have not got my hands on the new bergers but I would like to try them.

 

[g3ninfinite]

Re: .338 Lapua Magnum

can anyone weigh in on the 235 predator solid?

 

[Dogtown]

Re: .338 Lapua Magnum

I didn't have much luck with the Lehigh 285gr solids and honestly, of all the bullets I tried in my own loads, the 250 Scenar was the best performing. Out of my 27" barrel @ 2950fps it's solid to a mile.

 

[762frmafr]

Re: .338 Lapua Magnum

The new 285 BTHP offering from Hornady has won some trophies. May be worth a look.

 

[cali_tz]

Re: .338 Lapua Magnum

I have shot a good amount of 338LM out to 1000 yds, and I can definitely say that the 300 Scenar is clearly more wind resistant than the 250 Scenar. I cannot compare to any other bullet, no experience with them. But if the question is 250 vs 300 for Lapua bullets and you are expecting wind... the 300 Scenar impressed me with it's almost complete resistant to a single full value wind.

 

[Whit]

Re: .338 Lapua Magnum

I was reading the data section in the Applied Ballistics for Long-Range Shooting (by Bryan Litz, which is a good book). The new Berger 300gr hybrid has a higher BC (G1 & G7), but the 300gr Scenar has a higher stability factor (300gr SMK had a lower BC then both but a higher Stability Factor then both. The Berger might be a tough competitor for it. I am wanting to try the 300gr Lapua Scenar, Berger Hybrid and the SMK, when my build gets done. I am wanting to see how they compare to each other at long ranges.

 

[cali_tz]

Re: .338 Lapua Magnum

@whit... I'd be interested in your results ... what 338LM are you getting built?

 

[Whit]

Re: .338 Lapua Magnum

I am having a UGSW Infidel built. I am expecting it in the next week or so.

 

[desertHK]

Re: .338 Lapua Magnum

I have used the 250 scenars out to 1950 yards with reasonable success. Again, on a perfect condition day, it's doable. Throwing a bit of wind then it becomes a guessing game. That is also true for the Berger 300 as well. My friend have shot the 300 Bergers out to 2400 yards with consistent expectation. But remember, the 338 LM is designed to be a 1 mile cartridge. Can you stretch it further? of course, you can. But I can tell you at 2000 yards and slightly beyond, the 338LM is not my first choice of cartridge. Just my thought.

 

[mudvayne]

Re: .338 Lapua Magnum

Heavier is almost always better brother especially if your doing the 1500+ game. I shot at 2150 with the 300 berger this weekend and was doing pretty well. Mine was in a 338 NM however. I have found the G7 BC to match my drop perfect when I set it at .44. I know they have it listed as .418 but it was within 1/2 moa from 1000 to 2150 and all in between set at .44. when set at .418 I was hitting way high at all distances past 800 yards.

Chase

 

[g3ninfinite]

Re: .338 Lapua Magnum

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DesertHK</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have used the 250 scenars out to 1950 yards with reasonable success. Again, on a perfect condition day, it's doable. Throwing a bit of wind then it becomes a guessing game. That is also true for the Berger 300 as well. My friend have shot the 300 Bergers out to 2400 yards with consistent expectation. But remember, the 338 LM is designed to be a 1 mile cartridge. Can you stretch it further? of course, you can. But I can tell you at 2000 yards and slightly beyond, the 338LM is not my first choice of cartridge. Just my thought. </div></div>

Looking at keeping the rifle within 1700m

 

[mudvayne]

Re: .338 Lapua Magnum

I'd still stay with the highest BC bullet you can get your hands on. It will always help you stay closer on target if you make a bad wind call. Just weigh out the velocity boundries on each projectile and see which one wins in wind drift at a given distance and then you could make a decision after you see yourself.

Hope that helped

Chase

 

[cali_tz]

Re: .338 Lapua Magnum

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mudvayne</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Heavier is almost always better brother especially if your doing the 1500+ game. I shot at 2150 with the 300 berger this weekend and was doing pretty well. Mine was in a 338 NM however. I have found the G7 BC to match my drop perfect when I set it at .44. I know they have it listed as .418 but it was within 1/2 moa from 1000 to 2150 and all in between set at .44. when set at .418 I was hitting way high at all distances past 800 yards.

Chase </div></div>

The nice thing about Lapua Scenar, at least for the 300 grain, is that they provided BC's obtained with the aid radar speed measurements... I am not sure of the math involved, though I would like to know. Plugged into my Shooter app, it accurately predicted come ups out to 1000.

 

[264Charlie]

Re: .338 Lapua Magnum

Big difference from 1000 and 2150. The Berger number are from Litz. They are the most accurate BCs on the market today.

 

[264Charlie]

Re: .338 Lapua Magnum

The MRAD is kind of an add LR gun to me. Why go with a 24" barrel with a large round like a 338LM. Or any Mag for that matter.

That said the 300gr bullets are not really made for mag depth 338s. How long can you seat them in the MRAD? What twist rate barrel does the MRAD use? If it's a 10 or higher I would think twice about the 300s or solids.

 

[g3ninfinite]

Re: .338 Lapua Magnum

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 264Charlie</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The MRAD is kind of an add LR gun to me. Why go with a 24" barrel with a large round like a 338LM. Or any Mag for that matter.

That said the 300gr bullets are not really made for mag depth 338s. How long can you seat them in the MRAD? What twist rate barrel does the MRAD use? If it's a 10 or higher I would think twice about the 300s or solids.

</div></div>

I'm sure the length of the barrel was a consideration for the spec'd MAX overall length of the PSR solicitation sans suppressor. The MRAD is a 1-10 twist.

 

[264Charlie]

Re: .338 Lapua Magnum

To each his own.. but if your buying a rifle to shoot long distance and live in CA. Said rifle will not have a can.

Regardless a 10 twist 24" barrel is on the edge of satiability for 300gr rounds. In addition you will be limited by loading to mag length.

If you buy this rifle I would use a 250gr bullet no 300s or solids.

 

[mudvayne]

Re: .338 Lapua Magnum

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

The nice thing about Lapua Scenar, at least for the 300 grain, is that they provided BC's obtained with the aid radar speed measurements... I am not sure of the math involved, though I would like to know. Plugged into my Shooter app, it accurately predicted come ups out to 1000. </div></div>

I have shot the 300 scenars too and they didnt do as well past 1500 for me so thats why i stuck to bergers and have not looked back.

Chase

 

[Guest]

Re: .338 Lapua Magnum

We've had great results with the 235 Predator. In my opinion, this is the best bullet that Dynamic Research makes. It has shot very well from every rifle we've tried, and our customers love it too. TucsonDave here on the hide has used them at ranges exceeding 2K, with great results.

I don't have the numbers memorized, but the BC is similar or higher than a 300 grain jacketed bullet, and they can be launched faster than the 250s.

Mike

 

[greentimber]

Re: .338 Lapua Magnum

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 264Charlie</div><div class="ubbcode-body">To each his own.. but if your buying a rifle to shoot long distance and live in CA. Said rifle will not have a can.

Regardless a 10 twist 24" barrel is on the edge of satiability for 300gr rounds. In addition you will be limited by loading to mag length.

If you buy this rifle I would use a 250gr bullet no 300s or solids.

</div></div>




I can say from extensive personal experience that the 24.5" 10" twist barrel in the MRAD works very well with 300gr scenars and Match Kings. I've shot thousands of rounds of each, primarily 300gr but a good many 250gr, from sea level to almost 8k' ASL and in barrels from 18" to 27" over the last couple years. The 24.5" barrel has repeatedly been seen to be the best combination of everything, including portability for the shooter in the field, <span style="font-style: italic">especially</span> when running a can. If portability and maneuverability isn't a concern, you can add a few fps with a longer tube, obviously. Personally, I really like the 24" as an "everything you need and nothing you don't" kind of thing.

There is absolutely no reason to shoot 250s through an MRAD unless you just want to shoot 250s for some reason. I can tell you from years of experience with the rifle that my personal MRAD will never see anything but 300gr bullets.

 

[cali_tz]

Re: .338 Lapua Magnum

greentimber, I am with you on that. I spent alot of precious time and money figuring out the pro/con of 250 vs 300 on Lapua Scenar, and I've concluded there is a clear advantage with the 300 Scenar, at least from 300-1000 yards. I didn't worry about anything closer, and I haven't gotten to a range farther out.

Load development on 338 LM is much more time consuming, for me anyway, than on my 308 platform, and so with my new 338LM rifle, I will focus only on 300 gr Scenars exclusively. I might try other bullets later on in life, but for now it's Lapua Scenar 300.

 

[g3ninfinite]

Re: .338 Lapua Magnum

Has anyone tried the low drag lockbase bullets?

My trg22 when I had it loved 155 scenars but absolutely the 170LB factory lapua load.

 

[greentimber]

Re: .338 Lapua Magnum

I've used the 250gr Lapua factory Lockbase load. I haven't seen the same performance as the 300gr Scenar provides in any of the guns I've tried, though. That 300gr Scenar is just outstanding.

Have a few Bergers loaded up that I hope to try tomorrow.

 

[cali_tz]

Re: .338 Lapua Magnum

please let us know how you rate the Bergers to the Lapua 300gr.

 

[ChrisF]

Re: .338 Lapua Magnum


RE : Brass , yes Lapua is the best , the only other I would be willing to try/use would be RUAG .

Later Chris

 

[g3ninfinite]

Re: .338 Lapua Magnum

How does the Jamison stack up against the Lapua?

 

[greentimber]

Re: .338 Lapua Magnum

Shot a couple groups with the Bergers through the MRAD. These were starting points more than anything. No "load development" whatsoever has been done. I basically wanted to see what I could get from mag length vs seating close to the lands with the VLDs. Fortunately, the mag length loads are much nicer. I'll begin an actual load dev effort to refine the accuracy at this point.

Baseline group with the 250 Scenar factory ammo (300gr does better, but I didn't have any handy) about 0.5 moa:

Mag-length Berger. That one shot opened it up to about 0.6 moa:

Single-feed Berger. Rifle did not like this at all. These were 0.020" jump if I recall correctly:

No chrono yet, just playing with depth in safe loads to get started.

 

[cali_tz]

Re: .338 Lapua Magnum

nice groups, thanks for posting... I just started load development on my new 338LM.

 

[JL]

Re: .338 Lapua Magnum

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cali_tz</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mudvayne</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Heavier is almost always better brother especially if your doing the 1500+ game. I shot at 2150 with the 300 berger this weekend and was doing pretty well. Mine was in a 338 NM however. I have found the G7 BC to match my drop perfect when I set it at .44. I know they have it listed as .418 but it was within 1/2 moa from 1000 to 2150 and all in between set at .44. when set at .418 I was hitting way high at all distances past 800 yards.

Chase </div></div>
The nice thing about Lapua Scenar, at least for the 300 grain, is that they provided BC's obtained with the aid radar speed measurements... I am not sure of the math involved, though I would like to know. Plugged into my Shooter app, it accurately predicted come ups out to 1000.
</div></div>
If G7 is used, you need to make two different bullet profiles in order to achieve perfect (less than one click error) trajectory match against Lapua radar data. With Lapua 250 LockBase, that range boundary is at around 1100meters, Lapua 250gr Scenars 1200meters or so. This way it match atleast up to 2000meters.
Got shooter too, its easy add profile and pick needed.
Just name it "Under 1100" and "Over 1100" or so.

250gr Scenar flies flatter up to around 1300meters point.
300gr bucks wind better allright, advantage starts to show at around 500meters with 11mph wind.
With same wind, Lapua 250gr Scenar needs 4 clicks more wind corrrection at 1000 meters, but flies
excactly same amount of clicks flatter compared to 300gr.

Calculations with summer temps and sealevel pressure, MV 250gr = 2950fps, 300gr = 2790fps. Both can be handloaded faster, but I think comparsion should be reasonable fair.
Havent tried 300gr Scenars, but atleast 250gr is possible to load @3020fps pretty easily, std TRG barrel.

 

[cali_tz]

Re: .338 Lapua Magnum

@JL: using Shooter, I only create one profile, and it let's me add each BC for each velocity range... no need to have multiple profiles. However, I am using what I believe are G1 BC's from Lapua's Scenar brochure.

I am going to load some 250g Scenars which I have left over and see how those compare. But I am focusing 100% of my 388LM shooting and load dev on 300gr Scenars. I also found they perform very well, relative to 250 Scenar, against full value wind at 1000 yards.

 

[mouse07410]

Re: .338 Lapua Magnum

Which of these bullets (250gr, 300gr, Scenars, SMK, Berger Hybrid) transitions to subsonic better (or in a more predictable way)? I.e., which one would make more sense for pushing the distance?

 

[Dogtown]

Re: .338 Lapua Magnum

Without Doppler testing or a considerable amount of testing the group, it's hard to say. Looking at the BC is usually the safest bet without physical testing. The Scenars have generally outperformed the SMKs at distance and the Berger hybrids are the new kid on the block with good results so far but its too early to tell if they've supplanted the Scenar.

If you're worried about transonic accuracy, my guess is you're looking at accuracy beyond a mile. The assumption is that 300gr is going to be better than 250gr at those kinds of distances but from my experience this isn't always the case. In fact, pushing the 250gr Scenar to close to 3000fps has given me the best performance overall. I suggest you test both weights if possible.

 

[mouse07410]

Re: .338 Lapua Magnum

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dogtown</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Without Doppler testing or a considerable amount of testing the group, it's hard to say. Looking at the BC is usually the safest bet without physical testing. The Scenars have generally outperformed the SMKs at distance and the Berger hybrids are the new kid on the block with good results so far but its too early to tell if they've supplanted the Scenar.</div></div>
I see.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dogtown</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you're worried about transonic accuracy, my guess is you're looking at accuracy beyond a mile. The assumption is that 300gr is going to be better than 250gr at those kinds of distances but from my experience this isn't always the case. In fact, pushing the 250gr Scenar to close to 3000fps has given me the best performance overall. I suggest you test both weights if possible. </div></div>
Yes - and one part of the problem is that I can't test this, as I don't have a suitable range here. So I'm trying to build on experiences of others, hoping that somebody faced this question and found an answer that (hopefully) I can re-use. Considering all the factors (including costs) I'm trying to avoid finding/testing a solution that works up to 1000m and then falling flat when it does not work "beyond 1 mile" in the field.

I think I've read here at SH that SMK 250gr showed better transonic stability in practice than SMK 300gr. People say Scenar is better than SMK - does experience confirm it at transonic? Does e.g., 250gr SMK survive transonic transition without deviating "too much" (I realize that "too much" is subjective)? How does Berger Hybrid behave in transonic - did anybody try it yet?

 

[cali_tz]

Re: .338 Lapua Magnum

i haven't tested SMK or Berger brand with 338LM. But as I've said before, the 300 Scenar seems (unbelievably) accurate at 1600 yards in our last ELR shoot. It won't group terribly well at 100 yards while keeping less than 1MOA, it's not like a tack driver at all.

Given my results at 1600 yards, I am just reloading that recipe with 300 Scenar and calling it my perfect load. There just doesn't seem to be any reason to try anything else given the results I am seeing. I am using G7 stepped BCs in Shooter.

 

[mouse07410]

Re: .338 Lapua Magnum

But...but...but... at 1600 yards Scenar (and SMK) is still above Mach 1 - <span style="text-decoration: underline">maybe</span> just touching transonic. So it's great that it performs great while supersonic - but I'd like more data for trans- and sub-sonic behavior.

 

[Dogtown]

Re: .338 Lapua Magnum

My personal experience is that I decided to stick with the 250 Scenar because it performed best overall (this was before Berger hybrids). Even though I expected better performance from 300s at ELR distances, I got more consistent results with my 250gr load, which was 2950fps out of a 26" barrel.

 

[mouse07410]

Re: .338 Lapua Magnum

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dogtown</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My personal experience is that I decided to stick with the 250 Scenar because it performed best overall (this was before Berger hybrids). Even though I expected better performance from 300s at ELR distances, I got more consistent results with my 250gr load, which was 2950fps out of a 26" barrel. </div></div>
I see. Interesting! So in your experience 250gr Scenars flew better <span style="text-decoration: underline">at ELR distances</span> than 300gr Scenars... And they're comparable in cost to Berger Hybrids...

Are you planning/going to try 300gr Hybrids at ELR? I'd really love to hear how they performed for you!

 

[Dogtown]

Re: .338 Lapua Magnum

Since I'm on the other side of the world from my rifles currently, I can't do any testing.

 

[goober]

Re: .338 Lapua Magnum

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dogtown</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Since I'm on the other side of the world from my rifles currently, I can't do any testing. </div></div>oh yes you can Dogtown , you just need to make your way to Auckland and my arsenal!

 

[Jaxdialation]

Re: .338 Lapua Magnum

Check Barrett's forum for reload info.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: g3ninfinite</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm going to start gearing up for my Barrett MRAD purchase.

Is Lapua brass still the go to in this caliber?

Also for the 1500m+ crowd are you preferring the 230gr, 250gr, or 300gr?

Also are there any worthwhile solids available for the LM that can be used with a 1 in 10 twist barrel? </div></div>