.338 Lapua reloading newbie NEEDS HELP!!

dnofs33

Private
Minuteman
Jun 22, 2012
2
0
41
Ohio
Gentlemen,

I am a relative newbie at reloading, but I take the craft seriously and with proper safety in mind. That being said, I have been experimenting with some rounds for my Remington 700P .338 LM.

I am having some issues keeping my groups tight. I shoot off of a Caldwell Lead Sled so I know I'm holding pretty steady when the trigger is pulled. So, I've at least removed that from my equation.

I am loading the following:

Norma Brass
Retumbo Powder
Federal 215M primers
Sierra SMK 300 gr. bullets
3.680 COAL

I'm loading with a Hornady single stage press and using an RCBS Match .338 die set.

I started at 90 gr of powder the first go around and worked up to a nice hot load of 94 gr. I was firing at 100 yards and with the 93 and 94 grain I was able to hold about a quarter size group for most of the rounds - 2 rounds floated around 1" or so from my group (I fired 10 rounds of each load).

I loaded up another set of rounds at the 93 and 94 grain. This time around I fired about 40 of each load and I'm not sure if I was able to even keep 2-3 rounds consistent. (BTW, I wrote down all of the specs from my first load and followed them to an absolute T).

When I spoke with a friend who loads rounds for his .308 he thought that my COAL might be affecting the bullet flight. So, he recommended loading 0.020 off the lands. Now, I don't have all the equipment in the world, so the way I calculated that distance was as follows:

- First, I took a previously fired casing that a bullet would slide in and out of with just a slight bit of tension.
- I then ever so slightly started the bullet into the neck and then loaded the bullet into my chamber.
- I pushed the round all the way in till the bolt locked and then carefully removed the bullet.
- I then measured the COAL of the cartridge.

I came up with 3.744 and 3.745 consistently across 9-10 attempts. My quandry is that even by dropping .020 off of the lands, I'm still 0.044 from being at the proper COAL of 3.680 according to the Sierra reloading manual (and I surely can't fit a 3.724 sized round into my magazine).

Also, I'm getting some "denting" in my fired rounds along the rim of the neck and also midway down the neck. It would almost remind you of stovepiping in a semi auto, but it's obviously not (it's also not quite as pronounced as stovepiping)

If anyone might know what I am doing wrong I would greatly appreciate it.

Some things to note in case you might ask:
- I measure each bullet for weight before I load to ensure it is spot on 300 gr and within +/- .1 grain.
- I measure each load of powder on a digital scale to ensure I'm hitting the loads precisely.
- I also originally "broke" my barrel in by firing 2 rounds and then cleaning, all the way up to 30 rounds. Then 3 rounds and cleaning up to 30 rounds. Then 4 rounds and then cleaning up to 40 rounds.
- I try and clean my barrel when I'm shooting for accuracy about every 5-10 rounds.
 
Re: .338 Lapua reloading newbie NEEDS HELP!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dnofs33</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Gentlemen,

I am a relative newbie at reloading, but I take the craft seriously and with proper safety in mind. That being said, I have been experimenting with some rounds for my Remington 700P .338 LM.

I am having some issues keeping my groups tight. I shoot off of a Caldwell Lead Sled so I know I'm holding pretty steady when the trigger is pulled. So, I've at least removed that from my equation.

I am loading the following:

Norma Brass
Retumbo Powder
Federal 215M primers
Sierra SMK 300 gr. bullets
3.680 COAL

I'm loading with a Hornady single stage press and using an RCBS Match .338 die set.

I started at 90 gr of powder the first go around and worked up to a nice hot load of 94 gr. I was firing at 100 yards and with the 93 and 94 grain I was able to hold about a quarter size group for most of the rounds - 2 rounds floated around 1" or so from my group (I fired 10 rounds of each load).

I loaded up another set of rounds at the 93 and 94 grain. This time around I fired about 40 of each load and I'm not sure if I was able to even keep 2-3 rounds consistent. (BTW, I wrote down all of the specs from my first load and followed them to an absolute T).

When I spoke with a friend who loads rounds for his .308 he thought that my COAL might be affecting the bullet flight. So, he recommended loading 0.020 off the lands. Now, I don't have all the equipment in the world, so the way I calculated that distance was as follows:

- First, I took a previously fired casing that a bullet would slide in and out of with just a slight bit of tension.
- I then ever so slightly started the bullet into the neck and then loaded the bullet into my chamber.
- I pushed the round all the way in till the bolt locked and then carefully removed the bullet.
- I then measured the COAL of the cartridge.

I came up with 3.744 and 3.745 consistently across 9-10 attempts. My quandry is that even by dropping .020 off of the lands, I'm still 0.044 from being at the proper COAL of 3.680 according to the Sierra reloading manual (and I surely can't fit a 3.724 sized round into my magazine).

Also, I'm getting some "denting" in my fired rounds along the rim of the neck and also midway down the neck. It would almost remind you of stovepiping in a semi auto, but it's obviously not (it's also not quite as pronounced as stovepiping)

If anyone might know what I am doing wrong I would greatly appreciate it.

Some things to note in case you might ask:
- I measure each bullet for weight before I load to ensure it is spot on 300 gr and within +/- .1 grain.
- I measure each load of powder on a digital scale to ensure I'm hitting the loads precisely.
- I also originally "broke" my barrel in by firing 2 rounds and then cleaning, all the way up to 30 rounds. Then 3 rounds and cleaning up to 30 rounds. Then 4 rounds and then cleaning up to 40 rounds.
- I try and clean my barrel when I'm shooting for accuracy about every 5-10 rounds. </div></div>

First of all, try a different bullet and/or powder, or both.

Maybe your M-700 doesn't like the 300gr SMK and/or Retumbo powder.

As far as seating goes, Remington M-700s are notorious for having longer throats than other makes, so the fact that you're able to load out to ~3.745", isn't surprising. I loaded some 250gr Bergers out to 2.845" the other day.

You can either load long and single feed them, load to fit your magazine, or load to what the books says. You'll have to fiddle with this to see what performs best.

I don't know what the denting is, so post a picture so we can better advise you.

Chris
 
Re: .338 Lapua reloading newbie NEEDS HELP!!

I would load a hand full of rounds .020" off the lands and load them one by one to see how they group. If they group well then atleast you'll know that your rig is ok. Then after that you can just load to magazine length. I run H4831SC in my DTA. It feels much smoother and uses less powder than the Retumbo.
 
Re: .338 Lapua reloading newbie NEEDS HELP!!

Even from my limited loading experience I see so many things wrong here....
1. You said your loading with an electronic scale. Are we talking like a $500+ dollar scale? If not then its a known no no. Use a beam scale to see just how off cheaper electronic scales can be. Even the expensive ones get thrown off by things as little as static electricity in the room

2. Your testing a mile cartridge at 100 yards. Another no no. The results at 100 are not synonymous with at 1000+ where the 338 is meant to be. Many 338's do bad at 100 yards and are excellent at long distance.

3. Generally most people agree that seating touching the lands or even slightly into the lands is the best combination for accuracy. If you want to use your magazine then you will have to keep experimenting till you find something that works well with a lot of jump.

4. What did u you use to work up the loads?? Just shot for groups until you got a good group? That's really not how most precision shooters would recommend you do it. Read about the ladder test or ocw test.

5. How are you preparing the brass? Look at the stickies up top to make sure your doing everything

6. I don't think you need to do 10 round groups to find a load . Most people use 3 or 5 Round groups at each load, then once they are onto a couple loads they might expand how many rounds they use to confirm. More rounds doesn't neccesarly mean better. 338lm is a but more powerful than something like a 223. Even if your a great shooter. After 10 back to back rounds it wouldn't be surprising if the 1 or 2 out of the circle are you pulling them from fatigue. If your very confident in your shooting ability and insist on large groups then try instead of shooting a 10 round group all in one go, try to desperate it out. What I mean is shoot 3 rounds, wait a couple minutes, shoot 3 more and repeat. Then see if you have any fliers.

After all that, if it will doesn't work well then theres also the option that your rifle doesn't groove well with one of the components. Many people use h1000 powder with sucess.
 
Re: .338 Lapua reloading newbie NEEDS HELP!!

timelinex said pretty much said everything I was going to suggest. You should read the sticky about load development and do a ladder test at 500-600 yards. With the electric scale, set it to throw a few grains less than your desired load then finish the load using your beam scale and powder trickle. I also second trying other powder/bullet combo's.
 
Re: .338 Lapua reloading newbie NEEDS HELP!!

Thank you to everyone who has replied. I have loaded using a beam scale and compared it to my electronic. It was within +/- 0.1 grain every time. I also loaded multiple loads at 0.020" off lands and some right up to lands and have had MUCH better success at groupings. I do think there is substance to shooting fatigue as I've noticed the first 20 rounds or so will be very accurate and then they tend to begin to "fly" after that even with the same load. This last time out I was able to hold a quarter size group at 100 yards and a 3" group at 500 yards, so I'm quite satisfied at this point. I'm going to continue to tweak some things and see how it goes! Thanks again.
 
Re: .338 Lapua reloading newbie NEEDS HELP!!

Bench technique matters a lot. If you inexperienced and are getting flyers do not assume its the load - lead sled or not. Inconsistent recoil pattern is usually the problem. A 338 will want to move around a bit.