338 Lapua: The Worst Choice for a Precision Rifle
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Apparently someone with a hell of a flinch decided to give you advice about their 'long distance shooting' that consists of 3 shot groups at 100 yards on paper targets, on a sunny day, with no wind.
Or, just LOL
Or, just LOL
I can think of reasons you might not want to choose any big magnum (recoil, economics, etc), but "results on target" isn't much of an issue. The big 338s can be just as accurate as any rifle, and at ELR they will have better "results on target" than anything smaller. The quote is meaningless without some qualification. Unless there's something meant that isn't obvious, it sounds pretty dumb.
It's a terrible choice for your first rifle, but I highly doubt it's your first. If you apply the fundamentals, it'll be a very formidable rifle at longer ranges and especially from the prone which is what sounds like the majority of the shooting you'll be doing with this rifle is. That guy needs to drink some more Spin D and eat a bowl of dicks.
Well, the one I'm currently shooting until my .338lm improved custom build is completed shoots 4"- 6" groups at a mile and ragged one holes at a 100, an absolute hammer. It wouldn't be practical for say a typical PRS match but for ELR stuff its an absolute blast to shoot and hits with authority. Not quite as much fun as a 375CT but it still let's me "run with the big dogs" lol. There's certainly no reason a 338 can't be just as precise as any other rifle. Perhaps whoever you're referencing is sensitive to recoil and only shoots rimfires and is still living at home with his parents.......
Come on Lash,....jump in here.....this could be fun....
Come on Lash,....jump in here.....this could be fun....
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Lol, how could you forget to include the context in which I was speaking? I said it is possibly the worst choice for an inexperienced shooter, which you are appear to be. I contacted you via PM so as not to derail your magazine thread. I was polite, and tried to explain the position, and you had no meaningful reply. Your reading comprehension sucks.
No, you did not qualify your assertion at all in that way, sorry. Post all your PMs, or I can.
Ypu flatly asserted that 338 is probably the worst choice for precision rifle shooting.
Ypu flatly asserted that 338 is probably the worst choice for precision rifle shooting.
I have a lot of experience with .308 precision rifles, this is the first big bore rifle I've owned, though I've been able to shoot a 338 Lapua that a friend owns. I've shot the Barrett 50 cal a number of times, but have never owned a large bore of my own.
I figured the assertion that .338 is a "terrible" choice for a precision rifle was off, but thought I'd just put the comment out there to get other reactions.
IF the guy making the statement meant it is a poor choice for a person who has never fired any kind of precision rifle with a scope...ok, fair enough.
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In the context of a new shooter who wants to learn Long Range Shooting, with a focus on Precision and Accuracy, a magnum is a not a good first choice.
You see a lot of guys, and many will come to my classes, who bought the Savage 338LM as a first precision rifle and they clearly struggle. It's always the case where I have to get behind the gun and shoot it because their results do not match up to the rest of the class. There is more to a 338 than just dropping in behind it and pressing the trigger.
The recoil is too much for a new shooter, it's not that a 338 is a bad precision cartridge, it's people. It's an advanced cartridge, it's not meant for new shooters.
Personally I like the recoil of a 338 over most 300WMs, the WinMags tend to snap and the 338LM pushes. Then again you have to look at the brakes being used. A good brake and double ear protection can make a night and day difference in a new shooter's experience. But accuracy is not the issue, recoil is, and how you manage it matters. I highly doubt you can comparing having fired a 50 to getting precision out of a magnum. It's like saying you have started a NASCAR and drove it to the garage so you are capable of running it in a NASCAR race.
This is the same or at least similar arguments for guys who can shoot an AR15 and then move to a AR10 and can't hit shit accurately blaming the guns. Nobody double taps the trigger on a AR15 but you see complaints of AR10 triggers all the time as the shooters under estimate the recoil and will double tap with a AR10. The AR10 is a different animal that will exploit your failed fundamentals
You see a lot of guys, and many will come to my classes, who bought the Savage 338LM as a first precision rifle and they clearly struggle. It's always the case where I have to get behind the gun and shoot it because their results do not match up to the rest of the class. There is more to a 338 than just dropping in behind it and pressing the trigger.
The recoil is too much for a new shooter, it's not that a 338 is a bad precision cartridge, it's people. It's an advanced cartridge, it's not meant for new shooters.
Personally I like the recoil of a 338 over most 300WMs, the WinMags tend to snap and the 338LM pushes. Then again you have to look at the brakes being used. A good brake and double ear protection can make a night and day difference in a new shooter's experience. But accuracy is not the issue, recoil is, and how you manage it matters. I highly doubt you can comparing having fired a 50 to getting precision out of a magnum. It's like saying you have started a NASCAR and drove it to the garage so you are capable of running it in a NASCAR race.
This is the same or at least similar arguments for guys who can shoot an AR15 and then move to a AR10 and can't hit shit accurately blaming the guns. Nobody double taps the trigger on a AR15 but you see complaints of AR10 triggers all the time as the shooters under estimate the recoil and will double tap with a AR10. The AR10 is a different animal that will exploit your failed fundamentals
I would agree that a Lapua is a poor choice for an inexperienced shooter , but there's no reason to say it's a poor choice in general.
if you want one , go for it . If it's too much for you sell it and buy something else that suits you and your requirements better.
if you want one , go for it . If it's too much for you sell it and buy something else that suits you and your requirements better.
If you had $100 to spend on ammo. Yes. The "result on target" will have significantly less hits on the lapua mag than say a 260 because you simply didn't have as much ammo. Then again. If your worried about cost of ammo. This is probably not the sport for you!
I shoot a lot of 338LM. It's good for targets 1000+ yards. Inside that range, I don't think most people will be happy with it. The recoil is not bad, but it takes longer for the rifle to settle and inside of 600 yards it can be harder to spot your impacts or splash if you are not familiar with the cartridge. Most new shooters to the cartridge will have a hard time spotting splash inside 1000 yards most likely as the scope picture settles.
I've competed with the 338LM in long range PRS style matches for the heck of it, and I won't do it any more. With most targets inside 1000 yards the recoil and time for the rifle to settle puts you at a disadvantage, especially on smaller targets where you really need to see where on plate you are hitting to correct for wind. Also, inside 400 yards you are beating the crap out of the plates and I've broken a number of the hangers which is a hassle.
There is no wind advantage to the 338LM against a high performance 6 or 6.5mm cartridge inside 1000 yards either. So you just get recoil with no other benefits vs. smaller cartridges. Plus, you still have the much higher cost per cartridge for no real benefit either.
But if you are going past 1000 yards a lot (or more like 1500), then it's a fine cartridge because that was the intended design. Even then, I think a 300 Norma Mag probably is just as good with less recoil still and the bolt face is the same as the 338LM. So if you get a 338LM you have options to change the caliber pretty easily.
If most of your shooting is inside say 1200 yards or so and you don't need the downrange energy, I'd use a 6.5mm or similar caliber every time.
I've competed with the 338LM in long range PRS style matches for the heck of it, and I won't do it any more. With most targets inside 1000 yards the recoil and time for the rifle to settle puts you at a disadvantage, especially on smaller targets where you really need to see where on plate you are hitting to correct for wind. Also, inside 400 yards you are beating the crap out of the plates and I've broken a number of the hangers which is a hassle.
There is no wind advantage to the 338LM against a high performance 6 or 6.5mm cartridge inside 1000 yards either. So you just get recoil with no other benefits vs. smaller cartridges. Plus, you still have the much higher cost per cartridge for no real benefit either.
But if you are going past 1000 yards a lot (or more like 1500), then it's a fine cartridge because that was the intended design. Even then, I think a 300 Norma Mag probably is just as good with less recoil still and the bolt face is the same as the 338LM. So if you get a 338LM you have options to change the caliber pretty easily.
If most of your shooting is inside say 1200 yards or so and you don't need the downrange energy, I'd use a 6.5mm or similar caliber every time.
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I've been trying to wear double hearing protection with all my calibers, including 338 Lapua. It does help with the flinching, if you reduce the effect that the sound has on you. I had the T3 terminator on my savage 338 and it worked wonders. I sold it this spring and moved to the Barrett MRAD and it also has an effective break. The weight of the rifle doesn't hurt either.
I am look at the 300 Norma for the fact that I'll be able to load it a little longer than the 338, in the magazines that come with the MRAD.
I am look at the 300 Norma for the fact that I'll be able to load it a little longer than the 338, in the magazines that come with the MRAD.
Well, the one I'm currently shooting until my .338lm improved custom build is completed shoots 4"- 6" groups at a mile and ragged one holes at a 100, an absolute hammer. It wouldn't be practical for say a typical PRS match but for ELR stuff its an absolute blast to shoot and hits with authority. Not quite as much fun as a 375CT but it still let's me "run with the big dogs" lol. There's certainly no reason a 338 can't be just as precise as any other rifle. Perhaps whoever you're referencing is sensitive to recoil and only shoots rimfires and is still living at home with his parents.......
Come on Lash,....jump in here.....this could be fun....
Well Fur, I guess I missed this one and there is hardly anything that hasn't been said already. However, since you asked, I love my .260 and shoot the hell out of it at matches, but when I'm going long and or just want a good time, I get out my .338 LM and enjoy the crap out of it too. I have shot many a 5-round bughole at 100 while doing load development and my personal favorite for within a mile is Hornady 285s. My gun just likes them.
As you know, I've been shooting the Warner Flatlines lately to reach out a bit more here at sea level in Florida. I have limited access to the ELR range, so have only been out to 1840 with them so far, but that was fun and a 16-17" "group" for my first time out there was enough to make me happy. I'm pretty sure that I can improve on that, so am anxiously awaiting my next opportunity, at which I hope to be able to get out to 2000+.
The .338 LM is definitely not for everyone and I've had people refuse when offered the opportunity to have a few shots on it. Plus, I bought mine used from a guy who had only 50 rounds on it. That's pretty common if you look on GB or other used sites. A lot of guys see a sniper movie and think that they just have to have one, with no previous experience with precision rifles. Then they sell them to guys like me who actually want one to shoot for fun.
"There is no wind advantage to the 338LM against a high performance 6 or 6.5mm cartridge inside 1000 yards either. So you just get recoil with no other benefits vs. smaller cartridges. Plus, you still have the much higher cost per cartridge for no real benefit either".
I'll have to disagree here a bit. At 900 yds with a 10mph full value wind the wind hold on my 260 (and its no slouch) is 1.5 mils, with the lapua it's .9, over a half mil improvement. I'd call that a wind hold improvement. It's not huge but it is significant. The elevation holds are even a greater improvement of course.
I always double up on ear pro. I too have the T3 Terminator Brake on mine now, and...with the 30" heavy barrel and scope and bipod, etc. my .338 Lapua weighs in right at 21 pounds.
I just use soft in the ear plugs with 3M tactical 100's(best of both worlds). Definitely not the most expensive or the best ear pro, but works. I am interested to use the new in the ear 3m ear plugs that amply ambient noise, but at $300, I don't know? I don't own any suppressors, so I can live with loud breaks and unhappy bi-standards.
If we look at the original question, the answer is "with what perameters?" If the answer is energy on target than the statement is erroneous. If the answer is accuracy at sixteen hundred years than the answer is erroneous. If the answer is as a medium duty anti-materiel round than the answer is erroneous. But, if the answer is to learn on, than the statement is valid.
There are a very small percentage of people here who are tasked with using a LR sniper rifle, a few who would try a thousand yd. shot on a game animal and some that compete at ELR. The rest of us have little justification for a .338 LM other than it is absolutely a gas to shoot one and that is all the justification anyone should need.
Just for comparison at 900 yards:
285 Hornady ELD-X 338s @2750fps (about what my TRG shoots it):
217" drop 42" wind @ 10MPH
My friend has a 6.5x55 that is shooting the 143 Hornady ELD-X @3000 fps:
195" drop 48" wind @ 10MPH
That's 6" of wind advantage with the 338 you have more drop and a lot more recoil. And actually his rifle is more like 3100fps. So that's 181" of drop and 46" of wind in theory vs. the 338.
So yes there is some wind advantage inside of 1000 with the 338, but it's not as huge as people think with modern bullets and velocities. And again the recoil is far worse. The 338 is pretty much a prone/bipod only rifle.
For that matter, a modern .30 caliber bullet in the 300WM can give my 338LM a run for the money again with less recoil.
I like my 338LM and have shot it a lot, but it's not a good caliber for people that want to get into long range shooting and have not done it a lot or own nothing else. If I'm honest with myself, I'm more accurate with my TRG in 260 at 1000 than I am my TRG in 338 at 1000 even with the wind advantage. That's largely because the recoil with the 260 is far more manageable.
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