Gunsmithing .338 Muzzle Brakes

[MilDot1960]

Can anyone tell how much difference a good muzzle brake will make in controlling the Recoil of a 338 lapua, because I am thinking about going down the AI road, I like the fact that they run high BC bullets and also the fact that they can reach out a fair ways too.

Thanks in Advance.

John.

 

[Mordamer]

It makes a tremendous difference. On a cartridge like .338 Lapua Magnum it can change a gun from unbearable to almost no discomfort. I would not own a .338 if it did not have a brake or a suppressor. I do not have quantitative numbers to give you, but Google and YouTube have plenty of data.

 

[lash]

^^ What he said^^
Though to parse the terms a bit, there is a difference between recoil control and recoil mitigation. A good muzzle brake mitigates the recoil of the magnum calibers substantially. It also creates a large sound concussion that can cause flinching for a different reason. In either case, you do need to practice good fundamentals whilst firing one of the big boomers.

 

[MilDot1960]

It makes a tremendous difference. On a cartridge like .338 Lapua Magnum it can change a gun from unbearable to almost no discomfort. I would not own a .338 if it did not have a brake or a suppressor. I do not have quantitative numbers to give you, but Google and YouTube have plenty of data.

Thanks for that, I check out the cartridge "Here" and I don't understand these figures http://gundata.org/cartridge/81/.338-lapua-magnum/

And then I found this test and they claim that they can cut the Recoil by up to 40%, http://precisionrifleblog.com/2015/08/21/muzzle-brake-summary-of-field-test-results/

According to that first link they claim the 338 has a Recoil of 3.33 and they say my 30-06 has a Recoil of 2.19, So if a brake can lower the Recoil up to 40% then the 338 @3.33 could be as low as 1.998 which is lower than the 30-06, ?

I took the 30-06 to the Range one day and sent about 60 shots down range but the next day I really knew about it so I don't want to go through that again which is why I am wondering about muzzle brakes,

I have 2 options in mind, One is a 300wm and the other being the 338 Lapua, The .338 has my eye because of the High BC's and it's extended range,

Thanks again,

John.

 

[MilDot1960]

^^ What he said^^
Though to parse the terms a bit, there is a difference between recoil control and recoil mitigation. A good muzzle brake mitigates the recoil of the magnum calibers substantially. It also creates a large sound concussion that can cause flinching for a different reason. In either case, you do need to practice good fundamentals whilst firing one of the big boomers.

I never had an issue with the 30-06 except when firing to many shots in 2 or 3 hours at a time, It didn't make me flinch but the next day I was a bit Stiff, But I have read that a Brake makes em louder because the gases are being redirected outwards in stead of forwards, Is that correct, ?

Thanks for the help.

John.

 

[Fursniper]

The Terminator T-4 muzzlebrake IMO is the absolute best brake for the 338LM. I have one on my 338LM improved and the gun is a absolute pleasure to shoot. It's not a matter of "almost no discomfort" it's just no discomfort. Granted, my gun is heavy with a 32" barrel and a A5 Supermag stock. But having watched several recoil sled tests which are very objective, the Terminator brake simply out performed everything else out there. Some brakes were close but the T4 is the hands down winner


http://www.shoot-long.com/products/l...muzzle-brakes/

https://youtu.be/rf3rLi8L67I

 

[Edds]

Here is something to play with.

http://jecustom.com/index.php?pg=Tools&cmd=Recoil

 

[Sheldon N]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JuUJ6jl0AAc

 

[MilDot1960]

The Terminator T-4 muzzlebrake IMO is the absolute best brake for the 338LM. I have one on my 338LM improved and the gun is a absolute pleasure to shoot. It's not a matter of "almost no discomfort" it's just no discomfort. Granted, my gun is heavy with a 32" barrel and a A5 Supermag stock. But having watched several recoil sled tests which are very objective, the Terminator brake simply out performed everything else out there. Some brakes were close but the T4 is the hands down winner.

Thanks for that, That is what or how I want mine to end up, A friend bought a 450 cal to the range one day and that was brutal So I don't want a Rifle that kicks like that thing, because if it is too over the top then my Accuracy is going to suffer for sure, I was wondering why the Military used the .338 and got to thinking about how it was braked, The 30-06 is a nice calibre but it is about the limit when it comes to long Actions and shooting it all day, bigger than that I think it would have to be braked,

I know there are other calibres like the 7mm etc but I want to shoot out to 1760 but I don't want a wildcat calibre and I want to keep it within current military Cartridges.

Thanks again.

John.

 

[lash]

You are on the right track. My .338 is braked, but not with the T5 and still kicks less than my unbraked .30-06. But as mentioned, double up on the hearing protection due to increased muzzle blast.

 

[MilDot1960]

You are on the right track. My .338 is braked, but not with the T5 and still kicks less than my unbraked .30-06. But as mentioned, double up on the hearing protection due to increased muzzle blast.

So I take it that I need plugs and phones for protection, I knew you needed them for Barrett's etc but not the .338. It sounds to me like it makes the.308 sound like a .22 in comparison.

I guess a lot of this also depends on what bullet weight and powder loads a person is using too,.

Thanks for that.

John.

 

[Fursniper]

Any of the magnum cartridges are loud, especially braked, even the short action ones, but especially the big magnums. Heck, a braked 308 can damage your hearing in a short amount of time without good protection. I wear foam plugs in my ears with a good set of "muffs" on top of those when shooting magnums. Bullet weights and relative powder loads don't really make that much difference, a magnum is loud with a light or heavy load, don't risk your hearing.

 

[MilDot1960]

Any of the magnum cartridges are loud, especially braked, even the short action ones, but especially the big magnums. Heck, a braked 308 can damage your hearing in a short amount of time without good protection. I wear foam plugs in my ears with a good set of "muffs" on top of those when shooting magnums. Bullet weights and relative powder loads don't really make that much difference, a magnum is loud with a light or heavy load, don't risk your hearing.

I have never used one so I know very little about them apart from they seem to fly pretty flat and have high BC's, The thing is I want a Rifle that can shoot out to around a mile or so That I can get off the shelf ammo for if needed until I find a good load for it, The 30-06 is good for about 1500 yards at a push, I was running mine at about 2840fps but running it to 1500 the fall of shots starts to become more luck than judgement although it made pretty tight groups, I just felt it was holding me back, I like the Idea of the 300 wm but even that has it's limits, It is a good Cartridge all the same but I don't think that it will give me enough in reserve.

Thanks again.

John.

 

[Fursniper]

Now I'm confused, are we talking about bullets or muzzlebrakes? As an aside and just a FYI, this thread is a little off topic for the gunsmithing subforum, you might want to consider reposting further comments or questions in the bolt actions rifles subforum. Just a thought, .

 

[MilDot1960]

Now I'm confused, are we talking about bullets or muzzlebrakes? As an aside and just a FYI, this thread is a little off topic for the gunsmithing subforum, you might want to consider reposting further comments or questions in the bolt actions rifles subforum. Just a thought, .

Muzzle brakes, I put it here because some Rifles require Gunsmithing in order to fit them, I did not know that they don't come under Gunsmithing so thanks for that.

John.

 

[waveslayer]

Fat bastard works really well

My thinks I only have 3 guns

 

[agbm]

You could remove upto 100% of it, there is just going to be a lot of noise. Check out the test below, it was done on a 308. The test below gives you an idea, The APA Gen II series would be your best choice, no gun smithing needed all you need is a threaded barrel. You just screw the brake on and tighten down the nut. Another great brake is JP rifles Recoil Eliminator it works great also. Some people call it a tank brake, but it works.

https://www.americanprecisionarms.co.../muzzlebrakes/

https://www.jprifles.com/1.4.2_re.php

https://www.africahunting.com/thread...nd-test.23590/

 

[Supersubes]

As the others have said, on a boomer like the .338, it makes a huge difference. Although i'm a big AI fan, I've never particularly cared for their brakes.

I've been using muzzlebrakesandmore.com brakes lately. Very well priced(about $75 delivered), super straight, and just overall nice quality. Nathan is nice to deal with also. I replaced the AI brake on my AXMC with his 1" 4 port beast brake recently. Noticeable improvement, and right on par with a APA fat bastard and terminators from Nathans tests. Ive owned/used both the APA's but never a terminator.

https://youtu.be/_0TU1JDspnE




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[MilDot1960]

Thanks Supersubes that is a very nice addition, The finish is superb. So according to that video they reduce the recoil by up to 60+% which put the recoil lower than what a .308 is which is a huge drop,

John.

 

[Fursniper]

I believe Nathan makes a 5 port "super beast" which would be perfect for a 338LM, probably very close to the performance of a T-4 Terminator (at a reduced cost). I have a 4 port 1 inch beast brake on a 308, it's a great brake, very effective at recoil mitigation.

 

[MilDot1960]

I believe Nathan makes a 5 port "super beast" which would be perfect for a 338LM, probably very close to the performance of a T-4 Terminator (at a reduced cost). I have a 4 port 1 inch beast brake on a 308, it's a great brake, very effective at recoil mitigation.

You Got one on a .308 ?? That must feel like firing a .22 mag compared to not having one fitted, .308 is a nice balance between knock down power and shooter comfort, To be honest I never thought of having one on a 308 but I can see how it would change the whole experience of it.

So How bad is a .338 without a Brake fitted, has anyone ever fired one and lived to tell the Tail,

Thanks again,

John.

 

[lash]

.....
So How bad is a .338 without a Brake fitted, has anyone ever fired one and lived to tell the Tail,

Thanks again,

John.

Like any other magnum, it's all in how you shoulder the firearm and control the recoil impulse. I've done it, and in a hunting situation you hardly notice it, but I have no desire to do so with my ELR rifle, since I am often firing 30-50 rounds in a day prone.

 

[Fursniper]

"So How bad is a .338 without a Brake fitted, has anyone ever fired one and lived to tell the Tail,"

For just a few rounds, hunting scenerios, etc, no big deal. For a "regular" LR shooting session (20-40 rounds) not pleasant . For that matter, my hunting unbraked lightweight 30-06 is not much fun to shoot either....

 

[MilDot1960]

"So How bad is a .338 without a Brake fitted, has anyone ever fired one and lived to tell the Tail,"

For just a few rounds, hunting scenerios, etc, no big deal. For a "regular" LR shooting session (20-40 rounds) not pleasant . For that matter, my hunting unbraked lightweight 30-06 is not much fun to shoot either....

Yeah I hear ya, back when I use to use my 30-06 a fair bit I put about 25+ lumps of lead down range in less than about 30 minutes and it slid me about 6 or 8 inches backwards in the prone position but back then I only weighed about 165 and my shoulder was feeling the love and caress of every shot I fired, and that was a heavy Barrelled beast too. So I know what your saying, lol.

John.

 

[Supersubes]

I believe Nathan makes a 5 port "super beast" which would be perfect for a 338LM, probably very close to the performance of a T-4 Terminator (at a reduced cost). I have a 4 port 1 inch beast brake on a 308, it's a great brake, very effective at recoil mitigation.

I had been waiting for the super beast to come out. When it finally did, it was beaten by a regular beast brake(which also beat the t4 if i recall). If I actually build a .375, i'll probably try the super beast.

 

[MilDot1960]

I had been waiting for the super beast to come out. When it finally did, it was beaten by a regular beast brake(which also beat the t4 if i recall). If I actually build a .375, i'll probably try the super beast.

.A 375 Good Lord, where are you going hunting jurassic park, Lol, You could bring down medium range Aircraft with a Gun like that,, Lol.

John.

 

[Idaho CTD]

I went a little overboard on the Super Beast but I was trying to make something that would work well on Cheytac type cases too. If you watch the videos from the 300wm to 338 Lapua it closes the gap on the 5 port Beast brake and I suspect up near 100grs of powder it will be better than the 5 port Beast brake. The load in the 338 Lapua is only 86grs of powder versus 77grs in the 300wm. So guys shooting R-33 in a 338 Lapua or Edge will most likely see better results from the Super Beast. I'm going to test it on a 300RUM with 97grs of R-33 behind a 208 first and I might do my 338 Edge that I shoot 99grs of R-33 in after that. In a few months I'll do a slightly smaller port version of the Super Beast to bridge the gap between the 2 brakes.

 

[MilDot1960]

I went a little overboard on the Super Beast but I was trying to make something that would work well on Cheytac type cases too. If you watch the videos from the 300wm to 338 Lapua it closes the gap on the 5 port Beast brake and I suspect up near 100grs of powder it will be better than the 5 port Beast brake. The load in the 338 Lapua is only 86grs of powder versus 77grs in the 300wm. So guys shooting R-33 in a 338 Lapua or Edge will most likely see better results from the Super Beast. I'm going to test it on a 300RUM with 97grs of R-33 behind a 208 first and I might do my 338 Edge that I shoot 99grs of R-33 in after that. In a few months I'll do a slightly smaller port version of the Super Beast to bridge the gap between the 2 brakes.

I think the Cheytac's are incredible, I would love to own one,

Was that Video of the Sled test Yours'

thanks and keep up the good work.

John.

 

[bill alexander]

This might sound counter intuitive but my limited experience has shown that it is possible to over brake the 338 Lapua. Producing and testing these rifles leaves me with a certain amount of time to play and experiment with different stuff, from bipods and scopes to slings and muzzle brakes. My production rifles mount only a three prong flash hider and while the recoil is stout the gun is quite shootable but will focus the attention if care is not taken to get behind it and the stock into the shoulder pocket. Round counts over 100 will also begin to extort a reluctance to fire the next string.

In the spirit of testing I procured one of the excellent APA Gen II Fat Bastard brakes as well as mounts/brakes from TBAC and AAC. Also a unit from Lancer. As expected the AAC works to a certain extent and has little to no back blast or flash. The TBAC is noticeably better with good recoil reduction but when working prone or from positions it begins to throw stuff about. By far the best I have worked with was the APA which reduced the recoil to near 223 levels. Now the problem. Found group sizes opening and misses sneaking in. What the problem was was a flinch. Not recoil or noise but from bits of gravel, dirt, wood or whatever the thing would pick up being thrown back and subconsciously at my very expensive objective lens. Found myself sending the shot and waiting for the crack in the lens. Ruins the follow through.

So reverting to a less impressive brake ( I ended up with the AAC) significantly improved accuracy.

If the rifle is to be shot from the bench or tripod and not spend time near gravel, sand, dirt and barricades then this conversation is moot and the APA is an excellent choice. That said a silencer seems to be the best of all worlds.

 

[Idaho CTD]

I think the Cheytac's are incredible, I would love to own one,

Was that Video of the Sled test Yours'

thanks and keep up the good work.

John.

Yes the sled and video is mine. I'm going to put a Cheytac together to test with before long.

 

[MilDot1960]

Yes the sled and video is mine. I'm going to put a Cheytac together to test with before long.

Cool, that's better than watching Baywatch or home videos from the Playboy Mansion, Lol.

Thanks again,

John.

 

[rustyinbend]

Anyone using the APA Gen-3 Fat Bastard ... and willing to share your thoughts on it?