338 Norma is scary accurate...

[Broz]

Re: 338 Norma is scary accurate...

Thanks Tom, wow, I am running 1/2 gr more (92.5) of H-1000 in my current .338 LM and getting 100 fps less than your rifle and I am at 3000 ft higher altitude. I have only been involved with a dozen or so .338 Edges, Rums and LM's but if I ever did get to 2900 with a 300 gr I would have to beat the bolt open with a 4x4. Even at 4500 feet.

Now I am scratching my head on this one too.

Thank you.

Jeff

 

[mudvayne]

Re: 338 Norma is scary accurate...

Well I'll be GD'd I go on a hog hunt for two days and man talk about a thread getting HIJACKED!!! Jeff thanks for keeping things settled and answered til I got back.

Ok here is my rifle specs:

Weatherby MkV left handed action
Schneider 32" 1x9 twist poly groved
Fat bastard muzzle break
Timney trigger
McMillan A5
Near 30 MOA base and 20 MOA Alpha mount
Nightforce 5.5-22x56 R2

This rifle does repeat. 2+1

The rifle only took 12 shots using David Tubb's break in method.

My Load is as following...This is a personal load and start using 2 grains less to check your own rifles pressure tolerance! You have been warned

Here is the 100 yard 3 shot group..and in case your wondering, my 87 yr old pawpaw was the one who cut the TINY piece of paper out so cut me and him some slack!

Here is the 1300 yard group..Id say about 2.5" if I had to guess..you decide what you want..and the splash from the 11' position on the target was from my 6.5x47 Lapua

 

[mudvayne]

Re: 338 Norma is scary accurate...

Guess I forgot to add my load hahaha!!

Its 92 gr of Retumbo giving me 2850 fps with 300 gr gen 1 Bergers. Just got my gen 2 bergers today in the mail and will hopefully be able to use the same load to launch them. I will back off 2 grs however and work back up just to be safe. I will have more pics and data when I get time to work up the loads!

Chase

 

[blklabs]

Re: 338 Norma is scary accurate...

Looks good man. Your post provoked me to do a little research on the 300NM and now you have me contemplating it ........

 

[V-Ref]

Re: 338 Norma is scary accurate...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mudvayne</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well I'll be GD'd I go on a hog hunt for two days and man talk about a thread getting HIJACKED!!! Jeff thanks for keeping things settled and answered til I got back.

Ok here is my rifle specs:

Weatherby MkV left handed action
Schneider 32" 1x9 twist poly groved
Fat bastard muzzle break
Timney trigger
McMillan A5
Near 30 MOA base and 20 MOA Alpha mount
Nightforce 5.5-22x56 R2

This rifle does repeat. 2+1

The rifle only took 12 shots using David Tubb's break in method.

My Load is as following...This is a personal load and start using 2 grains less to check your own rifles pressure tolerance! You have been warned

Here is the 100 yard 3 shot group..and in case your wondering, my 87 yr old pawpaw was the one who cut the TINY piece of paper out so cut me and him some slack!

Here is the 1300 yard group..Id say about 2.5" if I had to guess..you decide what you want..and the splash from the 11' position on the target was from my 6.5x47 Lapua

</div></div>

1300 yard group to be proud of! And on a Weatherby action no less! More cool points from me! Thanks for sharing.

 

[ganyana]

Re: 338 Norma is scary accurate...

V-Ref

I have tried early batched of OBP powder from St Marks. Gave good results up to 100ºF and then pressures began to rise dramatically. May have been significantly improved in the last couple of years (st marks don't sit around)

Max safe load I got in the .338 NM with 300gn SMK was 93grn OBP lot 715 for 836m/s from a 26" barrel and a pressure at 24ºc of 434mPa

 

[mudvayne]

Re: 338 Norma is scary accurate...

Dr Don, my uncle leaves tomorrow for Zimbabwe for an elephant hunt. The government passed a new law that required him to buy an extra 10 day hunt on top of what he booked 2 years ago. He said he wasnt even going to shoot the extra animals because he already had 5 capes, and several other animals that he has already killed. I told him a certain nephew would go and kill them for him

 

[mudvayne]

Re: 338 Norma is scary accurate...

blklabs- please do build a 300NM! I would love to see that thing perform right along side my 338NM. We could do a real world test on my ranch from 500-2500 yards and see which wins!

 

[V-Ref]

Re: 338 Norma is scary accurate...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr Don Heath D.Sc.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">V-Ref

I have tried early batched of OBP powder from St Marks. Gave good results up to 100ºF and then pressures began to rise dramatically. May have been significantly improved in the last couple of years (st marks don't sit around)

Max safe load I got in the .338 NM with 300gn SMK was 93grn OBP lot 715 for 836m/s from a 26" barrel and a pressure at 24ºc of 434mPa </div></div>

Thanks Doc-For the english unit fellas, that converts to 2742 fps, 74 deg F. Stumped on how to convert 434 mPa (megapascals??) to inches mercury....

 

[Broz]

Re: 338 Norma is scary accurate...

Great shooting my friend. Not to take anything from your new rifle at all. But I have found the new 300 Bergers
hybrids to shoot much tighter groups at ELR than my rifle did with SMK's. I can't top your group at 1300 but I did have a 5 shot grp just over 5" at 1180 yards prone off a bipod. Thats damn good for me. LOL

Congrats on a great shooting rifle. I look forward to hearing more as you stretch her out.

Jeff

 

[mudvayne]

Re: 338 Norma is scary accurate...

Jeff I also shoot from prone/bipod. I actually hate shooting off a bench bc Im not very good that way! Shot this group out of the bed of my truck bc the cotton is too high to shoot off the ground..not to mention the brutal mirage off the ground!

This group was shot with the gen 1 bergers. I ran them as fast as 2900 fps in a lapua and they still held together fine so I never returned them. Cant wait to hit an oinker with the new berger bullet!

 

[Sendero_Man]

Re: 338 Norma is scary accurate...

Pictures of the rifle ? looks like a shooter for sure !!

 

[graewolf]

Re: 338 Norma is scary accurate...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mudvayne</div><div class="ubbcode-body">blklabs- please do build a 300NM! I would love to see that thing perform right along side my 338NM. We could do a real world test on my ranch from 500-2500 yards and see which wins! </div></div>

....and I'll bring my 338LM

 

[mudvayne]

Re: 338 Norma is scary accurate...

So I shot the gen 2 300gr hybrids today and wow does my 338 norma love them!!! I will put a pic up asap. Honestly its hard to get a good measurement on it but I will measure too big than too small. I am taking it to 1500 when the wind lets off. Been around 15-20 lately. It did still hold around 2-3" at 500 and 675 yards on my no wind shooting lane.

Chase

 

[mudvayne]

Re: 338 Norma is scary accurate...

 

[Donald]

Re: 338 Norma is scary accurate...

Got to love that group, good luck at the long range testing

 

[blklabs]

Re: 338 Norma is scary accurate...

I am pretty sure that between those two calibers the 338NM would dominate from 2000-2500 ....... from 2000 in though it might be pretty close. I am keeping my eyes posted on a good deal on a 30cal Kreiger 1-10 blank and when I find it, its going to the smith.

 

[mudvayne]

Re: 338 Norma is scary accurate...

Blklabs Im excited for you man!! I cant wait to see that bad boy!! Just get a loooong barrel so you can top out on velocity..and of course set it back a time or two when the throat starts to go. Def keep us posted on when your parts are in and when you will have it ready. Next week maybe we can get together and shoot some over at my place in Navasota.

Chase

 

[mudvayne]

Re: 338 Norma is scary accurate...

Thanks RM..It is so bloody hot right now shooting isnt so easy at LR bc of the mirrage. Maybe Ill go this evening right before dark when it lays down a little. Wind is dead calm dang near so I will go out and see what I can make happen.

 

[mudvayne]

Re: 338 Norma is scary accurate...

Well I took the 338 out for a spin today at 1000. Took my cold bore shot with the 300 bergers and nailed my 2/3 larue target, went to unbolt the round and realized my extractor claw had broken off :-/ Well Im not going to lie, its not the first time the extractor claw shit the bed on me..happened less than a week before I took it to Africa a few years ago. I will order 5 from Weatherby and see if I cant pursuade those bastards to make me a titanium one

Anyways, when I get her operational again, I will post pics of ELR groups.

 

[Broz]

Re: 338 Norma is scary accurate...

I have broken 2 in my Mark V 338 LM. The Weatherby large extractors for the 378's are pretty thin. Both of mine were durring ar right after some max loads. That is the weak point of the WBY for sure. I carry a spare and a small punch in the truck just in case.

Jeff

 

[mudvayne]

Re: 338 Norma is scary accurate...

Jeff I just ordered 5 from weatherby. Im starting a new build with a Stiller LH tactical action that takes detachable box mags. As much as I love this weatherby action, I have had too much trouble with it to keep sinking cash into it. Darn I have to build another one

I will turn the weatherby back into a 7mm mag

 

[Broz]

Re: 338 Norma is scary accurate...

I can't argue with ya. The extractor deal is not good, but that is the only issue I have had and have 1200 rounds through it now. Backing off the load helps, if you get too many hard bolt lifts, an extractor change out is in the future.

That new build will be nice, custom actions seem to be the way to go. Seems like I can sink close to the price of a custom in a 700 action too by the time I am done with it.

Good luck with the build.

Jeff

 

[mudvayne]

Re: 338 Norma is scary accurate...

And that is what was strange is that the bolt lifts werent sticky or heavy. Hell the first time the extractor broke was when the rifle was chambered in 257 Wby. That action has seen north of 8,000 rounds fired through it. Been rebarreled with 7 barrels in 4 calibers. It always shot best in 7Rem mag though so it will return to it.

Chase

 

[Broz]

Re: 338 Norma is scary accurate...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mudvayne</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> That action has seen north of 8,000 rounds fired through it. Chase </div></div>

Well that piece of crap! How dare it break a few extractors. LOL,

JK

Jeff

 

[mudvayne]

Re: 338 Norma is scary accurate...

Well I just ordered the stiller tac 338 lefty action, Badger bottom metal with AI mags, timney straight post trigger, and mcmillan A5 for the rebuild...action will be here this week!

 

[Broz]

Re: 338 Norma is scary accurate...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mudvayne</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well I just ordered the stiller tac 338 lefty action, Badger bottom metal with AI mags, timney straight post trigger, and mcmillan A5 for the rebuild...action will be here this week! </div></div>

Cool! Now forgive me if I got behind here, but are these parts to rebuild the .338 Norma in this thread that is so darn accurate?

Jeff

 

[blklabs]

Re: 338 Norma is scary accurate...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Broz</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mudvayne</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well I just ordered the stiller tac 338 lefty action, Badger bottom metal with AI mags, timney straight post trigger, and mcmillan A5 for the rebuild...action will be here this week! </div></div>

Cool! Now forgive me if I got behind here, but are these parts to rebuild the .338 Norma in this thread that is so darn accurate?

Jeff </div></div>

LOL! Of course it is. You can't stop a tinker from tinkering.

Chase I was in Jim's shop today and he was telling me about the new build. Also, he mentioned something about a 1000 yard prarie dog kill would be coming up in a few weeks with this gun. I don't know how you would video it, but that would be something cool to get on video.

 

[Broz]

Re: 338 Norma is scary accurate...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: blklabs</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I don't know how you would video it, but that would be something cool to get on video. </div></div>

Rifle builder Joe Starnes, My shooting/hunting buddy Chris and me, 2 cameras , one bolted to a plate with a spotting scope, the other barefoot. But this was a gopher, or 1/2 a prairie dog. Note the wind blowing the steel target too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTDypg4OAFA

 

[mudvayne]

Re: 338 Norma is scary accurate...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Broz</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mudvayne</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well I just ordered the stiller tac 338 lefty action, Badger bottom metal with AI mags, timney straight post trigger, and mcmillan A5 for the rebuild...action will be here this week! </div></div>

Cool! Now forgive me if I got behind here, but are these parts to rebuild the .338 Norma in this thread that is so darn accurate?

Jeff </div></div>

Yes im turning it into a repeater for ELR competitions! Single shot isnt my style :B The weatherby will go back to 7MM and shoot 175 XLR's. Maybe try the 190 gr

Jim said only 1000 yards?? He must have had a dumb attack because I will not even attempt a shot with the 338 inside a mile. All will be 1800+ yards and out. I will have a camera mounted to the back of my Swarovski spotting scope with a combined zoom of 100x. So hopefully we will get some ELR kills on video!!

 

[Broz]

Re: 338 Norma is scary accurate...

Wow, a prairie dog at 1800 plus. That is quite a quest. Maybe before you make it a repeater you could do one with the single feed. Ya know , first round cold bore hit with mirage and wind.

Good luck guys.

Broz over and out.

 

[mudvayne]

Re: 338 Norma is scary accurate...

Yes jeff it will be single shot for the PD hunt. Actually until the new Mcmillan gets in.

 

[The Animal]

Re: 338 Norma is scary accurate...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mudvayne</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So I shot the gen 2 300gr hybrids today and wow does my 338 norma love them!!! I will put a pic up asap. Honestly its hard to get a good measurement on it but I will measure too big than too small. I am taking it to 1500 when the wind lets off. Been around 15-20 lately. It did still hold around 2-3" at 500 and 675 yards on my no wind shooting lane.

Chase </div></div>


+1

The 300gr hybrids seem to shoot bug holes in my 338NM and a friend's 338NM as well. Seems to perform best with Vit N570 powder. Great velocity and low pressure.

 

[Donald]

Re: 338 Norma is scary accurate...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: The Animal</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mudvayne</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So I shot the gen 2 300gr hybrids today and wow does my 338 norma love them!!! I will put a pic up asap. Honestly its hard to get a good measurement on it but I will measure too big than too small. I am taking it to 1500 when the wind lets off. Been around 15-20 lately. It did still hold around 2-3" at 500 and 675 yards on my no wind shooting lane.

Chase </div></div>


+1

The 300gr hybrids seem to shoot bug holes in my 338NM and a friend's 338NM as well. Seems to perform best with Vit N570 powder. Great velocity and low pressure. </div></div>

What velocity are you getting in your 338 NM with N570 and what barrel length????

 

[The Animal]

Re: 338 Norma is scary accurate...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rocky Mountain</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: The Animal</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mudvayne</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So I shot the gen 2 300gr hybrids today and wow does my 338 norma love them!!! I will put a pic up asap. Honestly its hard to get a good measurement on it but I will measure too big than too small. I am taking it to 1500 when the wind lets off. Been around 15-20 lately. It did still hold around 2-3" at 500 and 675 yards on my no wind shooting lane.

Chase </div></div>


+1

The 300gr hybrids seem to shoot bug holes in my 338NM and a friend's 338NM as well. Seems to perform best with Vit N570 powder. Great velocity and low pressure. </div></div>

What velocity are you getting in your 338 NM with N570 and what barrel length???? </div></div>

I'm getting right at 2800 or a few FPS under with the 300gr hybrids on a 26 inch Bartlein 5R 1:9.3 twist, F215M, 91.0. There is alot of jump to the lands since that bullet is seated back substantially to fit in an AICS mag box. However, accuracy is tits!

If I recalled, I think I started 10% lower and worked up to 91.0 looking for any pressure signs. Disclosure: use the load data at your own risk. You could end up blowing up your rifle and yourself. Do your own research! Sorry for the disclosure but somewhere there is a worthless attorney willing to sue on behalf of an idiot.

 

[mudvayne]

Re: 338 Norma is scary accurate...

Im getting wicked velocity in mine. Granted Im running a 32" pipe too. Im at 2935 with Retumbo. Getting extractor marks though. Think Im going to drop a whole grain and increase barrel life.

Animal would you be so kind to show us a pic of that purdy rifle of yours???

 

[The Animal]

Re: 338 Norma is scary accurate...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mudvayne</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Im getting wicked velocity in mine. Granted Im running a 32" pipe too. Im at 2935 with Retumbo. Getting extractor marks though. Think Im going to drop a whole grain and increase barrel life.

Animal would you be so kind to show us a pic of that purdy rifle of yours??? </div></div>

Sorry, but I suck at imbedding pictures.

I've got two. Both are TAC338 actions. One with a McM A-5, Bartlein MTU contour barrel, jewell trigger, Badger DMB. The other is a hunting rig with a carbon fiber A-3, Bartlein Medium Palma contour barrel 26 inches long (both 1:9.3 twist), jewell trigger, Badger DMB, topped with a Vortex Razor HD 6-20. Total weight is appx 11 pounds for the hunting rig.

With the hunting rig, i'm playing with 250 gr accubonds with 95.0 gr of N570. It's a little too hot of a load so I need to back off a couple grains because I need it to work flawlessly. I'm taking it on a Brown Bear hunt Oct 1st in Alaska. With 95.0 grains Vit N570 w/ 250 gr accubonds, I was shooting with a 100yd zero w/ only 6.7mil drop at 1K (200ft above sea level). Again this load was too hot. I think it was pushing around 3,100 fps but that's just a guess because I didn't push it through a crono.

 

[mudvayne]

Re: 338 Norma is scary accurate...

Well your tactical rig is almost EXACTLY how Im rebuilding mine! Except mine will be a lefty rig

Sounds like that hunt should end in a hurry with that 250 accubond scooting along. Even if you do bring it down 50-75 fps.

 

[M338]

Re: 338 Norma is scary accurate...

I Got this pic from my gunsmith yesterday,my 338 norma is ready to ship,i have some vvn560,rl22 and h-1000,which powder do you fella's recommend,it's a surgeon action and a shorty(24 inch)krieger 1-9.35t.

 

[mudvayne]

Re: 338 Norma is scary accurate...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: M338</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I Got this pic from my gunsmith yesterday,my 338 norma is ready to ship,i have some vvn560,rl22 and h-1000,which powder do you fella's recommend,it's a surgeon action and a shorty(24 inch)krieger 1-9.35t.

</div></div>

M338 that rifle is finer than frog fur brotha!!! Im using H1000 now and 91gr is giving me 2890 fps in my 32" barrel. Cant wait to see a group that frog shoots!

 

[M338]

Re: 338 Norma is scary accurate...

Thanks Mudvayne,if it shoots half as good as yours I'll be happy.I will keep you posted.

 

[mudvayne]

Re: 338 Norma is scary accurate...

Sounds great man. just give us a range report asap!

What scope are you putting on it?

 

[M338]

Re: 338 Norma is scary accurate...

Well i got to the range today mainly just to sight and run in as i was low on time and as it turns out i didn't need much to sort out a load,what an excellent round!! cold bore,clean bore,fouled whatever,point of impact was exactly the same every time,i didn't shoot any further than 200m and i was consistently nailing groups well under 1/2 inch even during run in,i tried RL22 and VVN560 and both were equally good,i will chrony some loads next week i have some h-1000 i wanna give a go too.
Scope is a PH 5-25.

 

[3PER]

Re: 338 Norma is scary accurate...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Training Wheels</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No, I would have to make a phone call and get a new barrel... already chambered in what I need... LOL</div></div>

It's good to be the king...

</div></div>

Careful! That kind of stuff can get you 30 days.

 

[3PER]

Re: 338 Norma is scary accurate...

Absolutely riveting thread. Thanks!

 

[goober]

Re: 338 Norma is scary accurate...

I ran some figures based on the 250gr lapua and the 300 gr lapua in the Lapua magnum and the Norma magnum .

Using 2850fps 300gr in the NM and 2950fps 250GR in the LM the NM
came out on top by about 1/2 a mill at 1000 yards .I dont have the working with me as am a work but very interesting cartridge -shorter fatter colum of powder -one negative may be the softer brass that norma sells so hotter loads would lead to quicker head expansion compared to the Lapua for reloaders

 

[Bluejazz]

Re: 338 Norma is scary accurate...

Don't worry about the brass, as it is top notch, and not soft in this caliber