338lm sizing problem

[afv308]

I have some 338lm cases shot in a aiaw and wanted to use them in a new rifle I just bought, surgeon rem. I sized them in a rcbs full length sizing die with imperial sizing die wax. They would go into the aiaw but not the surgeon, the bolt would not go the whole way forward and close. I have never had this problem, I rechecked everything and the only thing I could think of was, as I have never had this problem before. The chamber on the surgeon is tighter and when I size the brass its springing back as it has been hardened from 3 to 4 firings in the aiaw, after being sized. That's the only thing I can think of never had this problem before I do have new brass on the way along with redding dies but wanted to break the barrel in with what I had. Now its just killing me to figure out why, I have been loading for over 20 years and never seen this I usually start with new brass and only use it in that rifle but have did it with other rifles and never had this problem when full length sizing.

 

[paul2atlo8]

I have had this same problem trying to use brass that has been fired in a diffrent rifle of the same caliber, figuring it out would require equipment not only to check chamber,throat areas
but brass grain stucture and spring back and the internal measurements of the resizing die its self ,this is what I've been told,left it at that. Save yourself the headache and use new brass from the get go like you have done in the past again just what I've been told.

 

[gixxer822]

grab some tempilaq. anneal it. try again. im sure you know, but just for shits and grins. when you size dont just run the ram fast hold it for a sec.

 

[ChrisGarrett]

I have some 338lm cases shot in a aiaw and wanted to use them in a new rifle I just bought, surgeon rem. I sized them in a rcbs full length sizing die with imperial sizing die wax. They would go into the aiaw but not the surgeon, the bolt would not go the whole way forward and close. I have never had this problem, I rechecked everything and the only thing I could think of was, as I have never had this problem before. The chamber on the surgeon is tighter and when I size the brass its springing back as it has been hardened from 3 to 4 firings in the aiaw, after being sized. That's the only thing I can think of never had this problem before I do have new brass on the way along with redding dies but wanted to break the barrel in with what I had. Now its just killing me to figure out why, I have been loading for over 20 years and never seen this I usually start with new brass and only use it in that rifle but have did it with other rifles and never had this problem when full length sizing.

The 338LM is a big hunk of brass and jamming those shoulders back can be problematic. I actually get a lengthening of a few thousandths when FL sizing and this is one reason I mostly neck size my brass.

I just went through a box with Norma brass, last week and I had to hammer the bolt open on a load that isn't hot, so they need a shoulder bump for sure, but I'll anneal them first.

Another issue might be that the die isn't able to size down far enough due to the shellplate, or shell holder, being a bit tall for a particular press's geometry. Sometimes you can shave the shell holder's top surface down, but doing that on my Dillon shellplate is going to be a hassle. There's always going the route of shaving off some of the die's bottom surface and I've done that to a 223 Redding die to good effect, however doing it by hand takes a while.

Chris

 

[korykhunter]

Had this happen a few times(243 and Warbird). A slow stroke or several strokes got some of them to work but no guarantee. It sucks when you load for several rifles in the same caliber.

 

[afv308]

thanks guys I don't feel so stupid now, I did try a redding shellholder and a rcbs cranked the dye down till it was stressing my press and tried sizing the case 2 times I give up. going to wait for the new brass. I have some 4831sc I was going to try with 300gr smks to start. I broke down and went downtown and picked up some seller and bellet loaded rounds to break in the barrel it was the only thing I could find. ordered some raug brass never used it before have any input on it.

 

[sinister]

I've found .338 LM brass fire-formed in an AI or DTA may not fit in a Sako TRG-42. It'll fire-form virgin cases or factory ammo. The bolt handle will not close -- and if you force it, may not lift or open/ primary extract a full-length sized case fire-formed in another brand of rifle.

I imagine your Surgeon's chamber may have been cut with a new, fresh reamer and you're having the same problem I had.

I've cracked FOUR Redding body dies trying to size brass to fit the Sako. A Forster works (just barely, and some cases I get resistance. I anneal all fired .338 Lapua brass).

I'm having the Warner Tool Company make a custom Magnum Sizing Die specifically for the TRG-42. They use the measurements off three fresh, originally-fire formed cases from your rifle to custom cut the body and neck/shoulder dimensions to match that particular rifle chamber.

Here are some articles describing the die and what it does:

http://www.6mmbr.com/warnerdie.html
http://www.warner-tool.com/reloading.htm

The first picture shows what all comes with the die. You have the round handle with dowel pin that fits the lock ring. When you install the die into your press you only hand tighten the lock ring. If you cannot get the lock ring loose to take the die out you insert the dowel pin into the hole in the lock ring.

My die came with 5 shims for adjusting the shoulder headspace bump on your cases when reloading. The allen wrench and a neck bushing. I got my die with two different neck bushings for my caliber I'm reloading.

Next picture shows the die taken apart. From left to right you have a shim, what I call the shim retainer and three screws, the dies body (actually sizes the body of your cases, neck bushing, main die body and decapping pin assy which this also holds your neck bushing in place.

Next picture shows the die going into the rock chucker press. You have to remove the 7/8 threaded bushing from the press to install the die. The die has 1.250 threads.

Is the die worth the money? Each has to answer that question themselves. As far as I'm concerned it's the nicest die I've ever used.

If you have a custom chamber that nobody makes dies for. Send WTC a fired case and I sent my chamber reamer drawing for reference for them as well. They will make the sizing bushing per your fired case. Again all I can is that it is awesome.

Once you spend the big $ up front you can use the same main die body and just have them make you case sizing bushings for other calibers etc...

They make a die for standard calibers, a die for magnum calibers and die bodys for like .50cal. as well.

Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels

 

[afv308]

sinister thanks for the reply this is a good one to put into my notes never heard of this company, I have custom rifles 2 gaps, tac ops, McMillan, and now this surgeon I have neck turned and have the tools to do it, only done this to clean up brass not for tight necks as I have no rifles with tight necks that need neck turned. after years of reloading I have learned if you can get good brass like lapua or norma in the cal. you need it saves a lot of work, but with the prices of brass now esp the big mags it might be worth the cost of your suggestion. I never tried annealing but I think I will have to read up on it and give it a try.

 

[sinister]

I've read that Warner custom die users can get well over 10-12 loads from their Lapua brass if they anneal, since they minimally work your brass.

With Lapua 338 brass over $2 each a case it's well worth it to get as much life out of them as possible.

 

[Lt. Arclight]

I have an AIAW in 338LM that I purchased from Stacey Blankenship that came with a barrel with English proof marks(Border? 1/11 twist) Over the years I've owned Tac338 McMillan-built by McMillan and then had GAP fit a Schneider 1/9.3 barrel,AR30 which was later rebarrelled by GAP with a Mile Rock 1/9 tube,and aTRG42 that remained completely stock.I've also had GAP cut an additional 25" 1/9 twist Bartlein. I currently have over 400 cases in rotation.

I have found that if you run the brass through an RCBS trim die it will push the shoulder back enough to chamber in my match chambers. The AIAW barrel will barely allow a "go gauge" to chamber and close the bolt-so the headspace is VERY tight. I've shot over 6K rounds of 338LM over the last 5 or 6 years and have no idea how many reloads are on my oldest brass.The brass is durable to say the least. 10 loads AT LEAST.

If you have a stony point or similar tool to measure the case to compare to new brass you'll see how much you have to bump the shoulder back. I have annealed some of the older brass but found the biggest difference in chambers cut with a Match reamer is headspace as well as the need to trim the cases overall length.

Frank's solution is without a doubt the best method. Thoses dies are pricey-but then again why throw away or sell perfectly good Lapua brass-that CAN be resized.

 

[Nimble1]

I have an AIAW in 338LM that I purchased from Stacey Blankenship that came with a barrel with English proof marks(Border? 1/11 twist) Over the years I've owned Tac338 McMillan-built by McMillan and then had GAP fit a Schneider 1/9.3 barrel,AR30 which was later rebarrelled by GAP with a Mile Rock 1/9 tube,and aTRG42 that remained completely stock.I've also had GAP cut an additional 25" 1/9 twist Bartlein. I currently have over 400 cases in rotation.

I have found that if you run the brass through an RCBS trim die it will push the shoulder back enough to chamber in my match chambers. The AIAW barrel will barely allow a "go gauge" to chamber and close the bolt-so the headspace is VERY tight. I've shot over 6K rounds of 338LM over the last 5 or 6 years and have no idea how many reloads are on my oldest brass.The brass is durable to say the least. 10 loads AT LEAST.

If you have a stony point or similar tool to measure the case to compare to new brass you'll see how much you have to bump the shoulder back. I have annealed some of the older brass but found the biggest difference in chambers cut with a Match reamer is headspace as well as the need to trim the cases overall length.

Frank's solution is without a doubt the best method. Thoses dies are pricey-but then again why throw away or sell perfectly good Lapua brass-that CAN be resized.

Hi Lt.Arclight I too have a Ar30 .338lm and have same problem with bolt even though length sizing past min just in case and still sticking bolt, measured cases and still can't find any difference in size between new and sized shell, using redding dies. cases shot once or twice.

 

[former naval person]

Try a diagnostic test...blacken one of your resized cases with layout blue or magic marker, let it dry, and try it in the chamber three or four times...that should show you where it is binding. I'll bet the base ahead of the web. Let us know what you find.

 

[pyrofx]

I have some 338lm cases shot in a aiaw and wanted to use them in a new rifle I just bought, surgeon rem. I sized them in a rcbs full length sizing die with imperial sizing die wax. They would go into the aiaw but not the surgeon, the bolt would not go the whole way forward and close. I have never had this problem, I rechecked everything and the only thing I could think of was, as I have never had this problem before. The chamber on the surgeon is tighter and when I size the brass its springing back as it has been hardened from 3 to 4 firings in the aiaw, after being sized. That's the only thing I can think of never had this problem before I do have new brass on the way along with redding dies but wanted to break the barrel in with what I had. Now its just killing me to figure out why, I have been loading for over 20 years and never seen this I usually start with new brass and only use it in that rifle but have did it with other rifles and never had this problem when full length sizing.

I had the same problem with brass fired out of a TRG. Re sized it in Forster , Rcbs and redding. Wouldn't fit the GAP chamber. Called CH and they sent me a small base 338 die . Money . All brass is GTG now . Die was 75 bucks . It saved 400 pieces of brass.

Greg

 

[Lynn Jr]

AFV308
I would do a quick test to see were the problem actually lies.Take one case and using a dremel tool cut it in half and chamfer it to remove any burrs.Now try and install it in your gun and see if the bolt closes smoothly which I doubt.

If it doesn't close smoothly its the web area of the case and has nothing to do with the shoulder or headspace.As you are already running your die down far enough to make firm contact with your shellholder and it is still not sizing the base of the cartridge enough try this first.

Get a piece of 80 grit wet/dry sandpaper and tape it down to a smooth flat surface.Take your shellholder and run it over the paper in a figure eight pattern.This will shorten the shellholder slightly and allow more of the cases base to be sized.You can add some water and a drop of dish soap to the paper to aid in shortening the shellholder.

Run that same piece of cut-off brass into the die and see if it doesn't fix your problem.

On the Warner die posted above.I bought one after sending in four three times fired cases and for $435 it didn't work at all.I ended up returning it and taking a loss on it.Those three shims you see in the picture adjust the headspace on your cases and the design is very good.It requires a larger press than your typical 7/8 threaded dies.
On mine even after sending in the brass the sleeve that is supposed to size the cases body didn't size anything.The manufacturer suggested I polish the chamber on my rifle so it would fit the die rather than sending me the correct die body.
Here is a picture of a 10 shot group at 600 yards at a match in Ojai,Ca using one of Franks Bartlein barrels and why I didn't want to polish my chamber.I hope Frank has better luck than myself with his die.
Lynn