Night Vision 3500 to spend on thermal

[Dthomas3523]

So, sometime in the very near future, I’ll be getting my first thermal optic.

Have a budget of +/- $3,500.

Will be used for hogs, as far as I can indentify/make eithical shot. Will be used on .223, .308, and 6.5

I care more about the actual intended purpose of target acquisition/identification/engagement than the other bells and whistles like recording video.

I know there is a decent amount of options in this price range, but I’m very new to learning about thermal optics. So I’m not sure what I should be looking at/for.

Thanks!

 

[Just Macca]

Hey brother, I don’t own one.. yet. But I’d check out Todd Huey’s website Lonestarboars.com, great info and a very active small community.

Having said all that, I’d look at the Pulsar range. From what I’ve researched they seem to be great value for money and great customer service. I’d look at either a Pulsar Trail XQ38 ($3,300) or Apex XQ50 (Older model without rechargeable/removable battery).

If you can stretch to the Trail XQ50 model for $3,800 I think you’d be getting the best optic out for the money.

Take what I’ve said with a grain of salt though. I don’t have a thermal, but have spent a fair bit of time researching it.

 

[wigwamitus]

Macca has his data down! Pulsar is the way to go for that purpose and budget.

 

[deersniper]

I like simple durable optics so I would stretch that price range a bit and pick up a T50. Simple quick start up device that can be clip on or standalone and is rated to 50bmg. I've seen them used for 4-5k. Might be able to put up a WTB ad and get one cheaper now

 

[lte82]

I had the Apex XQ50 last year and upgraded to the Trail XP50 a couple of months ago.

If you don't need recording, the Apex is the route I would go. It boots quicker than the Trail models, which is nice if you don't like to leave it on the entire hunt, plus they are quite a bit cheaper. Also the 384 resolution is plenty to identify pigs vs deer out to 500 yards no problem. The 640 extends it a bit but if you aren't going to take a shot outside 200-300 yards I don't see much benefit.

 

[ncyotecaller]

I have a Pulsar XD75A scope and a Pulsar Helion XP50 scanner and both have been great.

 

[wigwamitus]

I will say I've run the Apex 50A side by side with XP50 Trail and in sub 20F temps, the 50A was fuzzing up. Consensus was this was a temp/display issue. The Trail did not fuzz up. My guess would be the Apex not-A scopes would not fuzz up in those conditions either, better display.

 

[Heineken]

Pulsar or maybe one of the new flir offerings once they start shipping the larger lens options.

 

[shurt]

I just bought the Pulsar Trail XQ50 three weeks ago and LOVE it. It is amazing for the money.

 

[Victor-TNVC]

So, sometime in the very near future, I’ll be getting my first thermal optic.

Have a budget of +/- $3,500.

Will be used for hogs, as far as I can indentify/make eithical shot. Will be used on .223, .308, and 6.5

I care more about the actual intended purpose of target acquisition/identification/engagement than the other bells and whistles like recording video.

I know there is a decent amount of options in this price range, but I’m very new to learning about thermal optics. So I’m not sure what I should be looking at/for.

Thanks!

Give Nightgoggles.com a call and talk with Tom. He's a world class hunter and will match and beat any advertised price with no pressure to buy. He is there to educate first and foremost and is a great guy. : -)

 

[redneckbmxer24]

I like simple durable optics so I would stretch that price range a bit and pick up a T50. Simple quick start up device that can be clip on or standalone and is rated to 50bmg. I've seen them used for 4-5k. Might be able to put up a WTB ad and get one cheaper now

This. One sold on here for $3600 recently.

 

[Dthomas3523]

I’m starting to lean towards the Pulsar Apex XQ50 as I may be able to switch a purchase of an AMG I no longer need to this model thermal.

 

[lte82]

I like simple durable optics so I would stretch that price range a bit and pick up a T50. Simple quick start up device that can be clip on or standalone and is rated to 50bmg. I've seen them used for 4-5k. Might be able to put up a WTB ad and get one cheaper now

I haven't used a 320x240 in a minute, how is the resolution? Can you identify animals clearly at 500+?

 

[deersniper]

I haven't used a 320x240 in a minute, how is the resolution? Can you identify animals clearly at 500+?

It's definitely a shorter range optic but I value durability above all else.
PID is subjective and depends on conditions.
My 50 is a back up/loaner/beater thermal and to be honest I haven't used it in a few months. Work 24/7

 

[Dthomas3523]

Hey brother, I don’t own one.. yet. But I’d check out Todd Huey’s website Lonestarboars.com, great info and a very active small community.

Having said all that, I’d look at the Pulsar range. From what I’ve researched they seem to be great value for money and great customer service. I’d look at either a Pulsar Trail XQ38 ($3,300) or Apex XQ50 (Older model without rechargeable/removable battery).

If you can stretch to the Trail XQ50 model for $3,800 I think you’d be getting the best optic out for the money.

Take what I’ve said with a grain of salt though. I don’t have a thermal, but have spent a fair bit of time researching it.

Thanks for everyone’s responses and advice.

I had an AMG on order and found a used one with the older reticle I prefer. So I was able to swap the AMG for an Apex XQ50.

It was far below the $3500 I budgeted, but I don’t need the recording capabilities of the trail models and after research and input here, the XQ50 seemed the best bang for the money.

I won’t know until I receive it, but I feel like it will be good enough to keep me satisfied for quite a while until(if) I need to upgrade.

 

[lte82]

It's definitely a shorter range optic but I value durability above all else.
PID is subjective and depends on conditions.
My 50 is a back up/loaner/beater thermal and to be honest I haven't used it in a few months. Work 24/7

Gotcha. One of the spots on my place is about 700-800 yards out, so having extra resolution makes the difference to me. But if you are hunting close quarters in the woods I think FOV trumps everything. I like to do both, and the 640 added the extra FOV at native zoom, but gives me the ability to zoom in and still have a decent image. It was either that or get two thermals lol.

 

[JCCinOhio]

I opted for the XQ50 Trail over the Apex mostly because I didn't want to futz with CR123 batteries or having to add a battery pack. If you add the cost of a battery pack to the Apex you're closer to the cost of the Trail.. And I love the Trail by the way and Pulsar's warranty is top notch if anything goes wrong. Thinking about seeing if any coyotes want to dance tonight since I have a kitchen pass.

 

[BigTex]

My Pulsar APEX XD50 has been stacking hogs and dogs for a few years now. Still going strong.

 

[Dthomas3523]

My Pulsar APEX XD50 has been stacking hogs and dogs for a few years now. Still going strong.

Badass. Can’t wait to see this apex works out.

 

[Rumlover]

FLIR IR Hunter, had one for 6 years now, solid product, no issues, saved/led to success on countless hunts

 

[Just Macca]

FLIR IR Hunter, had one for 6 years now, solid product, no issues, saved/led to success on countless hunts

A bit out of his budget I think mate. Particularly if the Pulsar is providing 90% of the quality for a lot less.

Additionally, a big investment in something that will probably be obsolete in a few years and being out performed by scopes for half the money.

 

[Dthomas3523]

FLIR IR Hunter, had one for 6 years now, solid product, no issues, saved/led to success on countless hunts

Where is that selling for $3,500?

 

[Rumlover]

Wrong model, Scout. Title didn't say weapon mounted clip-on and I didn't care to read through another long explanation of someone who can't make a decision or do their own research.

For a clip on under 3.5K, quality sucks at distance--especially Pulsar. Save up, buy used or have a thermal handheld w/NVG for ID at distance.

 

[Dthomas3523]

So, basically you didn’t read shit, and decided to be an asshole?? Got called out on it, and then say you don’t have time for it.

And you still got it wrong. Wasn’t looking for a clip on.

But you’re probably right, I was fairly straight forward in my request for opinions, you chimes in with your utter bullshit (then admitted you didn’t read it).......but I’m the asshole.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Sounds like you just wanted to say “look at what I have.”

 

[Rumlover]

I didn't call anyone an asshole. It sounds like you want some sort of clip on, weather a single unit or in front of a day optic, all under 3.5K. Pull your panties out of your ego, I gave you what you asked for, an open opinion. Don't like, fuck off.

 

[Dthomas3523]

I didn't call anyone an asshole. It sounds like you want some sort of clip on, weather a single unit or in front of a day optic, all under 3.5K. Pull your panties out of your ego, I gave you what you asked for, an open opinion. Don't like, fuck off.

Um, did you read anything in the thread???

Never asked for a clip on and if you read the whole thread, you’d see that I settled on an optic.

I asked for opinions on stand alone thermal optics for $3500 or less and you chimed in with something well over that. Everyone else seemed to get the idea and responded accordingly.

Also, to be very clear here, I’m calling you the asshole.

I’ll be adding you to the ignore list. Go find someone looking for a 1k or less optic and suggest a 7-35 ATACR. ??

 

[CBDR]

With all due respect, you may want to dig a little deeper before you commit to something your going to be stuck with. 3500 is a lot of money. Explore the NV options. I used to think thermal was king of the hill. It has major advantages, but it also has its limitations. Do the research.

 

[Rerun7]

With all due respect, you may want to dig a little deeper before you commit to something your going to be stuck with. 3500 is a lot of money. Explore the NV options. I used to think thermal was king of the hill. It has major advantages, but it also has its limitations. Do the research.

I was in the op’s same situation. I personally did tons of research, watched every video I could find, talked to people who have used them and ultimately went with the Pulsar. At that price range there didn’t seem to be anything else that came close to what Pulsar offered.

Would you have recommended something different?

 

[Dthomas3523]

I was in the op’s same situation. I personally did tons of research, watched every video I could find, talked to people who have used them and ultimately went with the Pulsar. At that price range there didn’t seem to be anything else that came close to what Pulsar offered.

Would you have recommended something different?

I use thermal and NV at work (albeit higher end). The only real advantages NG gives is specific target identification, usable through glass, and the ability to run your day rig with just a clip on, an on extremely warm days thermal has issues distinguishing between other hot items such as rocks (typically not an issue at night).

I agree though, if there's an objection to thermal over nv, give a more specific reason or option.

 

[wigwamitus]

I am not exactly sure what CBDR is thinking, so I will have to guess ... but higher end clipons enable higher accuracy ... maybe < 1 moa ... versus lower end thermal scopes which might be 2 moa.

But this is not specifically a "thermal" versus "NV" thing ... it is more that with the higher end clipons we have some advantages. We have our day scope lens stack and reticle, which if we have higher end scopes with a decent rifle and cartridge is already giving us a sub 1 moa platform.
And then putting higher end clipons in front, like PVS-30 or UTC-x preserves the quality of that lens stack to a high degree.

So that is my guess as to what CBDR is thinking about, but he will need to come back and speak for himself to be sure!

 

[Dthomas3523]

I am not exactly sure what CBDR is thinking, so I will have to guess ... but higher end clipons enable higher accuracy ... maybe < 1 moa ... versus lower end thermal scopes which might be 2 moa.

But this is not specifically a "thermal" versus "NV" thing ... it is more that with the higher end clipons we have some advantages. We have our day scope lens stack and reticle, which if we have higher end scopes with a decent rifle and cartridge is already giving us a sub 1 moa platform.
And then putting higher end clipons in front, like PVS-30 or UTC-x preserves the quality of that lens stack to a high degree.

So that is my guess as to what CBDR is thinking about, but he will need to come back and speak for himself to be sure!

If I'm not mistaken, there are not any clip nv clip ons in the <3500 range that would out perform the pulsar apex line?

 

[wigwamitus]

That sounds correct to me. Hence you may have to live with 2 MOA accuracy. But at night, versus hogs or yotes, maybe that works for you?

That would mean your POI would be somewhere in a 6 inch circle around your POA at 300yds. If that is not sufficient, then you might need to limit your shots to 200yds which would be a 4 inch circle.


For the 300 odd critters I've knocked down in the past 3 years, IIRC one was 300yds plus ... two were 200 yds plus ... all the others were under 200 yds. But most of the terrain I operate in is woods and hills with fairly short distances involved. If you operate in more open terrain then longer shots may be indicated, in which case heftier optics may be indicated.

 

[wigwamitus]

Oh the exception is the PVS-9 SIMRAD ... there was a batch of those around a few months ago for well under the $3,500 limit ... if you can find one of those, you would have a solid NV clipon.

It would still be useful to have a thermal spotter to detect the critters that might not be out in the open. Based on the pricing I've seen, it might be possible to squeeze both into the $3,500 limit ... a lower end pulsar spotter and the SIMRAD. That combo would be an option.

 

[Dthomas3523]

That sounds correct to me. Hence you may have to live with 2 MOA accuracy. But at night, versus hogs or yotes, maybe that works for you?

That would mean your POI would be somewhere in a 6 inch circle around your POA at 300yds. If that is not sufficient, then you might need to limit your shots to 200yds which would be a 4 inch circle.


For the 300 odd critters I've knocked down in the past 3 years, IIRC one was 300yds plus ... two were 200 yds plus ... all the others were under 200 yds. But most of the terrain I operate in is woods and hills with fairly short distances involved. If you operate in more open terrain then longer shots may be indicated, in which case heftier optics may be indicated.

90% of my shots will be inside 100 yds. But there are some open fields, so 300 yds would be possible, but not the norm.

 

[deersniper]

FOV is going to be high up on list of things to look for for <100 yard shots

 

[CBDR]

Wig speaks from a much larger back ground of experience in both NV and thermal. I am way to critical on my quest of precision. I want one inch groups at 500 in the dark. If I can do it in daylight, no reason I shouldn't be able to make it happen at night. Shooting from the prone position 10 feet above the h2o.

above the swamp.

 

[Rerun7]

So.... just to recap. Your reco for the op, who wants to shoot hogs inside of 100 yards 90% of the time with a $3500 budget, is to scrap that idea and go spend the kind of coin needed to shoot under 1moa at 500 yards because you like to shoot over a swamp?

Thanks for your contribution...

 

[Dthomas3523]

Wig speaks from a much larger back ground of experience in both NV and thermal. I am way to critical on my quest of precision. I want one inch groups at 500 in the dark. If I can do it in daylight, no reason I shouldn't be able to make it happen at night. Shooting from the prone position 10 feet above the h2o.View attachment 6904931 above the swamp.

Where can I get that for $3500?

 

[wigwamitus]

Well, it might be possible to get a PVS-9/SIMRAD, gen3 and a Pulsar Handheld thermal for under $3,500
I'm seeing PVS-9s on gunbroker for $1,500 to $1,800 and that is the same ball park they were selling for around here a few months ago.
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/771357348 <= example

And then XQ23V on OP for aroun $1,600
https://www.opticsplanet.com/pulsar-pl77337-quantm-xq23v-therml-bin.html

So might be possible.

But note, that using this setup, would mean holding up the Pulsar for scanning, then deciding where to setup. Then setting up the tripod, attaching the SIMRAD and going to work.

==
There would be other items required, like rings/mount for the PVS-9 and a tripod and head and mount for your rifle.

If you get a good PVS-9 image should be in the ball park of the PVS-30 CBDR is showing.

 

[Rerun7]

Also, for the monocular I’d reco calling some of the hide vendors. I got an xq30v for just about that same price. It’s way better than the flir I was using before.

 

[wigwamitus]

Note, for me, I would still go with "as much TRAIL" as I could squeeze into $3,500 ... more mobility ... I would sacrifice some accuracy and distance for speed and mobility ... especially at night.

But if the OP wants a less mobile, slower, but greater distance and accuracy, it looks like the PVS-9 + Pulsar handheld, could fit in to his budget.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Note, for me, I would still go with "as much TRAIL" as I could squeeze into $3,500 ... more mobility ... I would sacrifice some accuracy and distance for speed and mobility ... especially at night.

But if the OP wants a less mobile, slower, but greater distance and accuracy, it looks like the PVS-9 + Pulsar handheld, could fit in to his budget.

Thanks again for your replies.

I've already settled on the Apex XQ50. I was more making a point that someone was inserting their option that wasn't realistically within the parameters I set in the original post.

Like you I'd rather have a single ready to go system and I don't mind sacrificing some longer distance accuracy to accomplish it.

I chose the Apex as I don't really value the recording feature, and I have access to plenty of 123 batteries. I was able to order one for under $2500.

I will likely in the future pick up a pvs-9 as I like to have all available options for different set ups.

 

[TRAAV]

I have a new trail xq38 for sale for $3000 that should work for you. Let me know if your interested.