400-500y hunting cartridge in a 2.860" coal

[st1650]

So I already have a very nice, lightweight short action Defiance anTI on a Manners ultra classic which I use for coyotes. It has a HS DBM so cartridge coal is quite limited at 2.86". Thinking about getting a new barrel and bolt for something heavier game than white tail/mule deer.

Now if I wanted to get a prefit barrel, which caliber would get me there?

300 WSM
7 WSM
7 SAUM
7 Sherman Short
Maybe a 24"-26" 7mm-08 AI?

7SS looks great on paper but getting brass in Canada looks like a pain.
7mm-08AI - Fireforming looks like a pain but I do like the caliber and strike a good balance for terminal ballistics and recoil.
7 SAUM we can get good quality norma brass, but seems like it does better with heavier bullets.

Don't really care that much about factory ammo but I do like the idea of having a few factory boxes on hand.

 

[Newbie2020]

6.5prc

 

[Franko]

I would choose from .308, 6.5CM, and 7mm-08. Any of these three are very effective, low recoil, and terminal performance is excellent. Of course you can step up to short magnums but at 400-500 yards the juice isn't worth the squeeze. If you still want a magnum I would look at the 300 WSM as it's not quite as hampered by the short COAL and in the event you need to buy factory ammo it's going to probably be available.

 

[XTREM HTR16]

Limiting to 2.86 screws you with a short mag.

I‘d go vanilla 7mm08 or 6.5 creed and keep the bolt.

 

[Force_Multiplier]

Limiting to 2.86 screws you with a short mag.

I‘d go vanilla 7mm08 or 6.5 creed and keep the bolt.

even 7-08 AI... fire forming loads of std 7-08 will be accurate too and then rev it up

FYI.. fireforming AI is easy... shoot as normal rounds, then it's AI

 

[Wannashootit]

something heavier game than white tail/mule deer.

Well...how much heavier?
I'm a huge 7-08 fan, it's my go-to for steel at 600-800. But steel ain't an elk...

If you're talking elk, or similar- minimum 1500 lbs KE is usually recommended. The 7-08 is only good to about 300 yards under that criteria.

If you can handle the .300 wism in a lightweight rifle, you'll never look back- and you likely won't ever need to wonder if you've got enough ass behind the bullet at 500 or more yards.

I just built one for my son on a modified 700 SA, and it's a beast. 8-1/2 lb rifle, and it about beat him to death with a couple dozen rounds doing OCW (but he managed a couple of literal one-hole groups that would measure in the tenths with it). I built it with a Wyatts CFE for more OAL, but he doesn't really like needing to load from the bottom with the floorplate so he's looking at a DBM- which unfortunately will chop the OAL he's using kissing the lands.

 

[acudaowner]

I know I am going 7 saum . Mostly because I can use the mdt chassis I am using now for my 6.5 creedmoor just having to unbolt the action and lift off and replace with a 7 saum chambered barrel and action with a trigger with a scope attached and no resighting in required , less than 3 min job and back to shooting ,allowing me choices depending on what I want at any given time and range I plan to shoot at . And seeing my 6.5 is now over 5,800 round fired and counting . At least I am looking forward to many more years to come with both of them once I am able to pick up the 7mm Saum .good luck which ever rounds you decide to go with I hope it works out great for you .

 

[st1650]

Well...how much heavier?
I'm a huge 7-08 fan, it's my go-to for steel at 600-800. But steel ain't an elk...

If you're talking elk, or similar- minimum 1500 lbs KE is usually recommended. The 7-08 is only good to about 300 yards under that criteria.

If you can handle the .300 wism in a lightweight rifle, you'll never look back- and you likely won't ever need to wonder if you've got enough ass behind the bullet at 500 or more yards.

I just built one for my son on a modified 700 SA, and it's a beast. 8-1/2 lb rifle, and it about beat him to death with a couple dozen rounds doing OCW (but he managed a couple of literal one-hole groups that would measure in the tenths with it). I built it with a Wyatts CFE for more OAL, but he doesn't really like needing to load from the bottom with the floorplate so he's looking at a DBM- which unfortunately will chop the OAL he's using kissing the lands.

Well I’m 6’3 and a pretty stout guy but yeah 300wsm is a lot on a 8lbs gun but I’d hunt with electronic hear pro and put a 4 port brake like the insite heathen.
7mm-08 is great, I helped a lady friend with her setup and it does carry a decent amount of energy to 300-400. I just wish there was a in-between solution that was short coal friendly and easy to find brass.

 

[david walter]

I love reading about the “energy necessary to kill a…”

WDM Bell shot and killed exactly 1,011 elephants.

He shot elephants with a Mannlicher-Schoenauer 6.5x54mm carbine using the long 159 grain FMJ bullets.

“He made it clear in a magazine article published in American Rifleman in 1954 what he would use if he returned to Africa. With his vast experience ivory hunting, he felt he could put his finger on the perfect caliber for the purpose, which he felt was the .318 Westley Richards, or the 8x57mm Mauser. However, if he had to do it all over again with a modern rifle he would choose a Winchester Model 70 in .308 Winchester loaded with homogenous bullets and sighted with a ghost ring rear aperture sight.”

Guess all of those elephants didn’t know the energy level was “insufficient” to kill them?

 

[Anb618]

You’re only looking at .01” shorter COAL than a standard AICS w/binder plate. You can basically do whatever you want in a short action .470 bolt face family.

If you wanted slightly more velocity than 7-08 without the AI fireforming, the 7mm SAW could be a good option. One pass on a sizing die with SRP .308, or buy WTO’s ADG stamped brass. The Type I reamer is a shorter freebore for restricted mag length situations like your current predicament and still has a decent velocity increase over standard 7-08.
There’s a few guys here playing with the Type II, and I’m excited to join the fun when I receive my barrel in a few more weeks.

 

[Shoots 700's]

I am a 300 wsm fan, but there are a-lot of great options. Cant go wrong with a .30 cal

 

[Matt_3479]

If it’s only whitetail and mule deer to 400-500
Yards I’d save the recoil and go with something in the 6, 25 or 6.5 or even .27.
Personal choices would be 25 creed/25x47, 25 Saum, 270 wsm/6.8 western, 260 rem, 260 ai,
6.5 creed/ 6.5x47

 

[Jack's Dad]

Do a Wyatt's extended mag. It'll get you a bit more coal. Not much money.

 

[Anb618]

If it’s only whitetail and mule deer to 400-500
Yards I’d save the recoil and go with something in the 6, 25 or 6.5 or even .27.
Personal choices would be 25 creed/25x47, 25 Saum, 270 wsm/6.8 western, 260 rem, 260 ai,
6.5 creed/ 6.5x47

Thinking about getting a new barrel and bolt for something heavier game than white tail/mule deer.

 

[st1650]

Do a Wyatt's extended mag. It'll get you a bit more coal. Not much money.

Those compatible with the HS DBM ?

 

[XTREM HTR16]

7mm08 with Nosler 150 grain ABLR at 2,800 fps muzzle velocity will carry 1,500 at 500 yards at 5,000' ASL elevation.

 

[XTREM HTR16]

 

[st1650]

7mm08 with Nosler 150 grain ABLR at 2,800 fps muzzle velocity will carry 1,500 at 500 yards at 5,000' ASL elevation.

Yeah it's definitely up there on the list. I do like the idea of the 7mm SAW ... just gotta figure out if the juice is worth the squeeze.

 

[Steel head]

7 saum with Berger 168 classic hunters fits nicely in a 2.86 mag, feeds well and delivers some impressive energy with fairly mild recoil.

 

[st1650]

7 saum with Berger 168 classic hunters fits nicely in a 2.86 mag, feeds well and delivers some impressive energy with fairly mild recoil.

What kind of velocity would you get out of a 22-24" barrel ?

 

[Steel head]

2900-2950 with R26

 

[fdkay]

no suggestions for the .284?
A bit more pop than a 7-08 without the barrel burning of a 7 SAUM.
FWIW, I have a 7-08 match rifle that I get over 2800 fps with the Hornady 162 ELD and a max charge of staball 6.5.
My barrel length is 26" +-.
I was pushing 2900 but got some ejector swipes and stiff bolt lift, so I backed off.

 

[Matt_3479]

My apologizes I didn’t read that right! I definitely read larger game like whitetail and mule deer.

So I change my answer. I still would leave the 6.8 western/270 wsm with the 170’s

 

[Anb618]

no suggestions for the .284?
A bit more pop than a 7-08 without the barrel burning of a 7 SAUM.
FWIW, I have a 7-08 match rifle that I get over 2800 fps with the Hornady 162 ELD and a max charge of staball 6.5.
My barrel length is 26" +-.
I was pushing 2900 but got some ejector swipes and stiff bolt lift, so I backed off.

I was actually wanting to build a .284Win originally, but also needed to stick with a short action so I went with 7SAW. From my research, the .284Win suffers from being designed long before development of the high BC bullets we now have available, and so it suffers from an unfortunate forced compromise of a few choices in the modern era;
1) you’re stuck using aged/low-BC projectiles, mag fed in a short action (which defeats the purpose in such an excellent mid-range cartridge IMO), or
2) you seat high BC bullets extremely deep in the case, mag fed in a short action (losing the benefit of that glorious fat little short action cartridge by sacrificing much of the available powder capacity you gain over 7-08), or
3) you use high BC projectiles seated long in a short action by single feeding (which would make it useless for a hunting rifle), or
4) you use high BC projectiles mag fed (but you’re forced to move up to a long action and just deal with a lot of unecessary bolt travel and unused mag length).

Basically, if he wants to stick with a short action, the .284 Winchester just doesn’t seem to make a lot of sense. Again, I have no firsthand experience with the .284, but this is my understanding. If what I’ve read is true, anyone considering the .284Win who doesn’t want to move to long action may as well move up to a 7SAUM to not have to make so many compromises…except the barrel life decrease.

.284 Winchester

 

[stangfish]

30-284