Sidearms & Scatterguns .45 1911 Cast Bullet Dilemma,

[Sean the Nailer]

Hey ya'll,
Educate me if you will, as I know what I don't know. And I don't know this:

What is the 'best' cast bullet weight AND design for a .45 1911?

I'm not getting into any debate of .45 vs 9mm, nor anything regarding Colt vs. Tupperware. We have the opportunity of making MANY cast bullets for the 1911 and I have heard quite a few times over the years about 'feeding the 1911 with the proper bullet' to reduce function problems like jams, ftf's, etc.

I don't have the experience with these that I'd like to, though my Lady is starting out in this direction. We'll be setting up our caster for volume, and we need to boil down the die selection to something optimal to begin with.

For those who're really into this type of thing, pushing the envelope further with:

Brinell hardness "window"

Lube

Gas Check +/-

So there we have it. The availability of bullets up here is practically non-existent therefore we'll be doing what we can to both support our needs and maybe even help others out. Ergo, we want to do this as right as we can.

 

[Downzero]

Re: .45 1911 Cast Bullet Dilemma,

.45 is a low velocity cartridge. Properly sized cast lead bullets of nearly any hardness will work just fine.

 

[aloreman]

Re: .45 1911 Cast Bullet Dilemma,

we shoot 200 gr swc. single grease ring. 20 to 1 lead to tin.

 

[ggmanning]

Re: .45 1911 Cast Bullet Dilemma,

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body">.45 is a low velocity cartridge. Properly sized cast lead bullets of nearly any hardness will work just fine. </div></div>

This. At 8-900fps leading is not an issue. I shoot a variety of lead ball and semi wadcutters. Size .001-.002 larger than bore diameter with a hardness anywhere around 8-10+.

 

[Neo]

Re: .45 1911 Cast Bullet Dilemma,

This is what I used for the 1911.

Link

Click on the 200swcbb on the left

 

[RADcustom]

Re: .45 1911 Cast Bullet Dilemma,

It is going to be hard to beat the H&G 68 design for accuracy. Size them to .452 and be happy. They don't always feed the best in all pistols. Hardness is going to be determined by how fast you intend to push them.

 

[308garand]

Re: .45 1911 Cast Bullet Dilemma,

This I just cast 230gr RN bullets out of wheel weights. I water quenched them, lubed, ran through sizing die and loaded. I never had an issue. As stated above you shouldn't need a gas check for the .45acp.

.308

 

[1911wrench]

Re: .45 1911 Cast Bullet Dilemma,

Gas checks aren't needed for .45acp based on my experiences.

Montana. Extreme 50 BMG and Lewis Lead Remover should be in your Brownells cart next visit.

 

[aloreman]

Re: .45 1911 Cast Bullet Dilemma,

chore boy works good for removing lead as well

 

[noahmercy]

Re: .45 1911 Cast Bullet Dilemma,

If your pistol has fixed sights, it is probably set up to shoot to point of aim with 230 grain bullets. Good old round nose slugs are virtually guaranteed to feed in any 1911 on the market. (Some folks have reported excellent results from truncated cone bullets as well.)

For pure accuracy the 200 grain semi wadcutter is tough to beat. If you have fixed sights, you may have to get a different height front to get POA and POI to coincide. Also, if your pistol doesn't feed them, it may require a throat job (easy to do if you have a little mechanical aptitude and inexpensive if you have a 'smith do it).

Whichever weight and style you decide on, I can tell you I get best accuracy with flat base designs. Bevel bases are nicer for mass production and easier to load, but in my experience they are not as accurate and they are far more prone to lead the barrel than flat based projectiles.

I like relatively soft bullets (20-1...sorry I don't have a Brinell # for ya') for all non-magnum handgun loadings. I also favor good old cheap Alox stick lube. It is a little messier than the "crayon" lubes, but it does a great job of keeping fouling soft and easy to remove. The combination of soft bullet material and soft lube allows the bullet to obturate and seal the bore, virtually guaranteeing that there will be no flame-cutting. Barrel leading is non-existant in my Springfield XD and my Kimber Custom.

 

[Downzero]

Re: .45 1911 Cast Bullet Dilemma,

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Noah Mercy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">(easy to do if you have a little mechanical aptitude and inexpensive if you have a 'smith do it).</div></div>

If it's so easy, why do people screw it up so bad?

 

[Sean the Nailer]

Re: .45 1911 Cast Bullet Dilemma,

This is excellent info here dudes, thank you and keep it coming.

Either here or PM (got a few of those already too) and I am amassing this all into one 'volume' for the final decision. The help is greatly appreciated. I don't know what the market down there is like, but up here there's NO supply.

So we're doing what we can to create our own.

 

[Sean the Nailer]

Re: .45 1911 Cast Bullet Dilemma,

Does anyone have any knowledge/experience of a 'negative' using wheelweights for bullet material?

Further insights on Brinnel hardness differences in the same bullets?

Just trying to cover bases and dot all my "T's" before jumping in. Still reading the links and whatnot.

 

[303_enfield]

Re: .45 1911 Cast Bullet Dilemma,

WW work fine as long you keep Zinc out of the pot.
Go here and read:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/

 

[bigwheeler]

Re: .45 1911 Cast Bullet Dilemma,

I don't cast my own but the Oregon Trails 200 swc laser cast have always been
great shooters in my guns. Very typical design but they lead less than others and
have been the most accurate.

 

[81Z4ME]

Re: .45 1911 Cast Bullet Dilemma,

Wheel weight lead is much harder than the usual cast lead bullets. I've never had an issue with feeding, shooting or leading while using my own cast bullets from wheel weights. Using store bought lead bullets I sometimes have a little lead in my barrels.

 

[MQXL308]

Re: .45 1911 Cast Bullet Dilemma,

Have used the 200gr swc from laser cast. have been good shooters, only issue I ran into was a little excess lube on the brass can cause a few easy to fix ftf.
I have found some molly coated 200s from bear creek supply that seem to work well also.. and only cost me $40.50 for 500...

 

[Drifter]

Re: .45 1911 Cast Bullet Dilemma,

I cast 200g flat nose bullets for my 45. 6 cavity Lee mold and wheel weight lead, dropped into cold water. You will be running much higher volume by the sounds of things. I went with this bullet design as a compromise between a round nose and a WC, I also cast 325g of the same design for a 475 Linebaugh.

So far I have run about 4000 through my 4" Kimber SCP with no issues at all. 100% reliable, and very accurate.

http://leeprecision.com/xcart/6-CAV-452-200-RF.html

No gas check needed for 45acp.

 

[Guest]

Re: .45 1911 Cast Bullet Dilemma,

The Lyman 452460 SWC 200gr mold throwing w/w into cold water took me from Tyro, to the farthest left side post. Was using 3.5 an 4.2grs of Bullseye, for a no sight change match. When I went to plates an pins, I just stepped up the powder to 5.9.
Shot those in my 1911's until I dumped them in favor of everything Glock. The Glocks eat them just fine as well.
Never found a 45acp that would not run them, except one clone 1911 POS, that would not feed, extract or eject anything.

 

[kraigWY]

Re: .45 1911 Cast Bullet Dilemma,

I've used Lymans 225 grn cast bullets for about 30 years, mostly wheel weights and range lead, zoro leading problems and they are accurate.

I was running the AK NG Marksmanship Unit in the '80s when the Army ran out of 45s and they were shooting 22s at the Wilson Matches.

I used state funds to buy powder and primers, and had casting parties using above mold to reload 45s for our pistol teams so we could still shoot 45s, They are accurate and reliable in both our Hard Ball and Wad Cutter (Center fire) guns, even at 50 yard slow fire.

We loaded them on a Dillon RL 1000 progressive loader.

We kept this up until the Army started buying 45 ammo from Israel.

You don't try to make a 45 ACP magnum, you wont have leading problems with Wheel Weights or Range Lead.

As a side note, we made our own lube. 1 lb of wax, 1 lb of vasoline, and one table spoon of RCBS case lube.

 

[Sean the Nailer]

Re: .45 1911 Cast Bullet Dilemma,

This is great information. Thanks everyone for your contributions so far, and don't stop. PLease.

Kraig, your lube recipe is interesting. Question 1 would be, what kind of 'wax'? I ask, as I know from prior candlemaking that there are many types and temps of wax. Can you be any more specific?

A number of you have commented about 'dropping the cast bullets into cold water'. What difference does this cause? I know it gets 'harder', but I'm asking "by how much?"

Our units aren't exactly compatible with a water-bath so I'm looking at the "necessity" of such, or is it more possible/simple to change the alloy ratio's.

 

[noname]

Re: .45 1911 Cast Bullet Dilemma,

after shooting literally tons of 200 swc (50,000 rds a year in IPSC competition) my current favorite bullet is cast wheel wts, in the 200 "cowboy action" configuration of rnfp which has a larger meplat than the swcs.because of the familiarity of using this round (high volume practice) I also carry it for self defense load. (yea yea all stuff on using reloads and hollow pts energy dump yo, gabba,gabba). there will probably be a commercial high volume caster in your area that can tell you more than most suppling the cowboy action and IPSCshooters. Go to Brianenos.com and ask suppliers in your area.

 

[CTone03]

Re: .45 1911 Cast Bullet Dilemma,

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 308garand</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> This I just cast 230gr RN bullets out of wheel weights. I water quenched them, lubed, ran through sizing die and loaded. I never had an issue. As stated above you shouldn't need a gas check for the .45acp.

.308 </div></div>

I do exactly what he says, with the same mold and everything. Before I start casting bullets, I use a propane stove and a cast iron pot to melt large batches of wheel weights to get rid of the steel clips. I ladel the cleaned and fluxed lead into ingot molds and muffin pans, and later use those clean ingots to melt in my furnace when I cast bullets.

They functioned great in my 5" Kimber over Unique - I forget the charge - but velocity was around 840 fps. Plenty accurate too; I could punch holes in a paper plate at 100 yards with no problems.

 

[unrepentant]

Re: .45 1911 Cast Bullet Dilemma,

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just cast 230gr RN bullets out of wheel weights. I water quenched them, lubed, ran through sizing die and loaded. I never had an issue. As stated above you shouldn't need a gas check for the .45acp.</div></div>

My casting/reloading process is quite similiar. I use a 195-200 LSWC beveled-base 4-gang SAECO #68 mold. The weight will vary according to lead content of the wheel weights. The shape is akin to the fabulous H&G 68. The beveled base on the bullet is nice because it makes locating the bullet in a tightly flared casing easier than the flat base does. I also quench my cast bullets by dropping them directly into water (away from the melting pot!!!). Quenching adds just a little hardness. I prefer the SAECO mold because it's heavier, steel, and holds a constant temp longer than the Lee molds. The steel "stands a beating" more than the aluminum--hit the sprue plate and the mold stays put with the steel's weight--do that with aluminum molds and you fight to hold the mold in its' place in space because it's so light. (with the aluminum molds, [even 6-gang] you'll need a second mold at some point anyway so's you can swap out the hot mold--when the first mold gets really, really hot, you'll start smearing lead across the top with the cutting sprue, and you wanna avoid that. By the time the SAECO gets that hot, you'll wanna break anyway. And the heavier steel mold is nice to have if you're dropping bullets into a bucket. I've found that the higher I drop, the faster I can work; if I have to be concerned about 'placement' [and not wetting the mold!!! at the same time] it slows me down. I drop into a 5gal bucket from a good table-height--a minimum momentum of movement is aided by the heavier mold.)

I'll go with a 1-20 ratio linotype-to- wheel weights *when* I have linotype. If I don't have it conveniently on hand, I'll just use straight wheel weights and not worry about leading. It's never severe enough to bother me (and I'll go through 4-500 rounds between cleanings. Chore-boy (or any other scouring) copper pad for pots and pans is 'WAY more economical than a Lewis Lead Remover kit for cleaning lead out of a barrel. Find yourself a source of PURE copper scouring pads... they're harder and harder to find, but I still found some at the local Walmart last year. Bring a magnet with you so's you can prove your scouring pad isn't a copper-coated steel mesh--though that won't really hurt the barrel's lands and grooves IF your cleaning rod spins as you push the mesh through the bore. Steel/copper should be avoided if you're using a cheaper cleaning rod that doesn't spin in the handle. All you need is an old worn out brush attached to your rod. Wrap the mesh around it so's it's really hard to push-pull through, and start scrubbing (dry). Do it long enough so the barrel gets warm in your hand and inspect. Make sure to push/pull completely through on each stroke. No worries even with pure lead wheel weights with this cleaning method--so long as you size your barrel first and then lube and size your bullets .001-.002" over.

You can drive the un-"tinned" bullets at ~850 fps with no worries; an old favorite is 5.4 - 5-7 WW231. Anything comparable will work; for a time I think I was using 5.2-5.4 of 700X--but I disclaim these numbers--use your head (no offense meant) and consult some legitimate references for lead loads as (of course) I'm not trustworthy for quoted loads.

Ya cain't hardly drive a 200-230gr 45acp hard enough to require gas checks unless you're suicidal.

p.s... "Brinell hardness"? We don't need no stinkin' Brinell hardness scale... not for 45acp, not really--unless you really just gotta know. Wheel weights at 1/20 are so hard I can't scribe them with moderate pressure with a steel nail, so I don't worry about it.

As to lube, *any* legitimate lube will do--bee's wax, red, blue, green--you'll have to experiment and see which smells and smokes "too much" for your tastes vs.your budget. Outdoors I almost never care except in the still calm of the hot summer when the odor and smoke just hangs... excepting for bee's wax, any colored lube is good enough for me on those days, and BW is just fine all the rest of the time when there's a 3-5mph breeze.

 

[Sean the Nailer]

Re: .45 1911 Cast Bullet Dilemma,

unrepentant,

some excellent info in there. To tell the truth, my question regarding the gas-checks was not so much for pressure reasons, as it was for 'scraping' the lead buildup off the barrels.

I've not used them yet, as I have just shot jacketed bullets once in a while amongst the cast's.

Shooter 2,

We ain't got none casters in this area. The only one known, passed away. He did sabot'ed muzzle-loading bullets.

There's a demand, so we're looking at things.