Suppressors .45 5" - 6" .vs .45 3" - 4"

[Switchblade]

OK, so I searched and didn't come up with anything here so I think I'm OK with this:

Why is it, I have been reading in magazines, and on the 'net that some say the shorter .45's are crap('...I would NEVER use a 3" - 4" .45 for carry..") or they wouldn't use them as a carry(CCW) gun, but only would use a 5" - 6" gun? They do not give reason or sanity to this, only bottom line opinion. What is the major issue with a shorter, easier to carry pistol? I would think a full size .45(yes, I have before) would be heavier to carry in , say a shoulder rig.vs carrying a shorter one in an SOB or Appendix carry.

I happen to be very much in love with the little SA Ultra Comps and Micro Comps. A design I know and trust, but in a smaller more compact package. What's the deally-O? 6 rounds of the same loaded 185/230 JHP flyin ashtray or 7. Not too much of a difference from where I sit.

 

[bohem]

Re: .45 5" - 6" .vs .45 3" - 4"

I'm interested to hear this as well, since even the 3-4" barrel pistol strikes me as rather large for a daily CCW weapon. Mine is a 2.6" barreled G29

 

[was21]

Re: .45 5" - 6" .vs .45 3" - 4"

It comes down to reliability. JMB designed the 1911 as a 5"er.

As you step down in barrel length the timing of the recoil/function cycle becomes more critical. I.E....the shorter/lighter the slide the faster things happen. Setup is more critical. Yes , short 1911's can work but the margins for error are smaller. Same kind of thing that you find in AR's...20"ers are easier to setup and run than 10.5/14.5/16".

Here's a link to an article by Hilton Yam that explains it better than I can.
http://www.10-8performance.com/id8.html

This has been proved to my satisfaction firsthand in the numerous training classes that I have run/taken over many years.
After seeing many 100's of 1911's in high round count serious usage...I'll agree with JMB [ and Larry Vickers{vickerstactical.com}....and Louie Awerbuck et al]....a serious fighting 1911 needs to be a 5"er.

Check out those links.

FWIW
Wes in AZ

 

[bohem]

Re: .45 5" - 6" .vs .45 3" - 4"

Thanks Wes, that makes pretty good sense. I was thinking from the "ease of concealment" factor, not functionality. Good article.

 

[was21]

Re: .45 5" - 6" .vs .45 3" - 4"

I work on the premise that....."Carrying a pistol is meant to be COMFORTING , not necessarily COMFORTABLE "

Agreed , the shorter brls carry easier , but there is comfort in my Ithaca 1911 [built in 1945] that has never let me down.

"Must go BANG"
FWIW....also been known to carry a G19
Wes

 

[RollingThunder51]

Re: .45 5" - 6" .vs .45 3" - 4"

John Browning knew:
1911s were designed to be made at full line production speed.
1911s were designed to be assembled by half asleep production workers.
1911s were designed to function first, accuracy second.
1911s were designed to made by the lowest bidder and still function.
1911s are capable of withstanding all of the above, by design.

Whereas I would not take issue with anything said thus far, lets be clear here.

A well built 4" will run hard.
A well built 3" will run hard.

CCW for personal defense

1. Average numbers of rounds fired in conflict off duty, one.

2. Average number of rounds fired in conflict on duty, 2.6.

Note: The "on duty" number reflects a jump of 100% since the introduction of 9mm. The thought is that the 9mm cannot do the job so most pull the trigger twice. Plus training has changed, double tap.

In the absence of 9mm, the average number of rounds fired...one.
Data all the way back to 1994.

One in the tube.

High risk situation different.

 

[Downzero]

Re: .45 5" - 6" .vs .45 3" - 4"

I'd agree with all of what you said, Rollingthunder. I do love carrying my 1911, but as most of you guys also note, I'm just too lazy to carry a full size, steel frame 1911 all the time.

If I could find an alloy frame compact that ran 110%, perhaps I wouldn't be so lazy.

 

[BALLISTIC]

Re: .45 5" - 6" .vs .45 3" - 4"

I LOVE my G30...Smaller than a 1911, and more firepower. WIN, WIN!

 

[bohem]

Re: .45 5" - 6" .vs .45 3" - 4"

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'd agree with all of what you said, Rollingthunder. I do love carrying my 1911, but as most of you guys also note, I'm just too lazy to carry a full size, steel frame 1911 all the time.

If I could find an alloy frame compact that ran 110%, perhaps I wouldn't be so lazy. </div></div>

This is exactly why I carry a G29, the ability to truly conceal with a minimal print through, yet the capability to drop dirtbags and mack trucks at the same time.

 

[Switchblade]

Re: .45 5" - 6" .vs .45 3" - 4"

A 'Serious Fighting 1911' is a full sized pistol, has special requirements to work 100% all the time. I get that.
A shorter barreled .45 has special requirements to work 100% all the time. OK, nothing new. So, with that being the standard, where is the hard data that says a 100% reliable gun in a 1911 3" - 4" barrel format that is built for reliability won't work? From where I sit, each and every reason is solely based on design, empirical data, and opinion based on a full sized .45.

Glocks, Sig's, and others need not apply herein. I don't care much about plastic fantastic(except for the next trip to Pop's place so I can relieve him of that little Glock .40 and swap it out to .357Sig). My focus is solely on the short barreled .45 and it's applicibility to CCW, stone cold built reliability, and use. I get it, an 'out of box' factory pistol may have issues, but who says any one of us uses anything 'out of the box factory', hmmmm?

 

[RollingThunder51]

Re: .45 5" - 6" .vs .45 3" - 4"

Switch,

The good news is you can stop right here.

You can own a 3" or 4" properly prepared .45 1911 and have excellent reliability. If your aim is to carry a chopped .45, welcome to a 35 year old club with literally tens of thousands of satisified members. Concerned about having to justify your short barrel to hardcore full framers (you don't strike me as too worried about that) well, what can one say? That will go on regardless of how many times you will personally report your succeess. Their 1911 run great too nobody blames them for wanting to spread the news.

As you probably already know, short barreled M16s have been running strong since LaFrance put diverter block/pigtails into his 8.5" barrel M16k in the early 80's. Its all about getting it right, nothing new.

World's smallest .45 automatic (no its not an LM4, its an XLM auto). All steel, barrel length? 2". Total length? 4". Total width? .85" (with thin kit).

 

[Switchblade]

Re: .45 5" - 6" .vs .45 3" - 4"

HA! Nice! I will have a SA .45, you know, the small one. I of course being the gearhead and 'can't leave well enough alone' kind of guy will do all the little tweaks with the throat, ramp, blah blah blah to make it a sweet performing litle bit of whoop ass. As much as I love knives, a guy can't take a knife to today's modern world gun fight and really think he would succeed.
Besides, I wouldn't want to be the guy in a lone man shooting people up and not be able to respond in kind.

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: .45 5" - 6" .vs .45 3" - 4"

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BALLISTIC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I LOVE my G30...<span style="color: #FF0000">Smaller than a 1911</span>, and more firepower. WIN, WIN! </div></div>

Huh?? G30's are a BRICK compared to a Officer's or SA Micro.

Firepower-if I can't stop a threat with 21rds (what's in the pistol and 2 mags) of 230gr CorBon I'm screwed anyway.

 

[BALLISTIC]

Re: .45 5" - 6" .vs .45 3" - 4"

Smaller, NOT thinner...with the pistol and 2 mags I am at 30 rounds.

 

[Downzero]

Re: .45 5" - 6" .vs .45 3" - 4"

Smaller involves thickness.

A "smaller" gun with a thicker grip is harder to conceal.

Even a G19 doesn't conceal as well as an officer or bobtail. G30 is thicker than that.

 

[mtm87tx]

Re: .45 5" - 6" .vs .45 3" - 4"

glock 30s are IMHO harder to conceal than a bobtail commander

 

[Switchblade]

Re: .45 5" - 6" .vs .45 3" - 4"

My old Safari Arms doesn't hide real well in Summer. The Glocks my Pop has, well they hide ok, but man they are FAT!
Basic .45's are so much thinner, besides, they just have so much 'cool' dripping from them it's called CLASS

 

[MontanaMarine]

Re: .45 5" - 6" .vs .45 3" - 4"

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bohem</div><div class="ubbcode-body">..........Mine is a 2.6" barreled G29 </div></div>

Something doesn't sound right. The G29 and G30 barrel length is something like 3.78", breechface to muzzle.

 

[Switchblade]

Re: .45 5" - 6" .vs .45 3" - 4"

About what I been lusting after for a few years

 

[Switchblade]

Re: .45 5" - 6" .vs .45 3" - 4"

Damn, a twofer deal, right and left hand at the price?

 

[Tims]

Re: .45 5" - 6" .vs .45 3" - 4"

Switchblade, I have only three 1911's. Two are Commander's and one is a full size 1911. I have shot thousands of rounds through all three. The 4 inch guns are just as reliable as the 5inch guns. To say a 5 inch 1911 is the only one worth carring because it was designed to have a 5 inch barrel is incorrect. What is most important in choosing your ccw 1911 is through testing. Shoot it, alot, make sure it works, make sure it is accurate, make sure it is reliable. Know where it shoots with the ammo you are using. I would consider this more important than barrel lenth.

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: .45 5" - 6" .vs .45 3" - 4"

Hey Switch, snag one when you get a chance, I really dig 'em. I resprung my Micro's recoil setup with Kimber +power (21 lb) springs and it gobbled up ammo yesterday.....

 

[Switchblade]

Re: .45 5" - 6" .vs .45 3" - 4"

Oh, it's a done deal, I just have to get it. The little SA's are The Cat's Ass in my book. I mean shoot, it's a 1911 .45, but smaller. If I were to go to the opposite end of that, I would look seriously at a Guncrafter Industries .50GI, but that is a full size combat gun meant for duty or 'war face' carry in a low thigh mount set up

 

[CANAVAR]

Re: .45 5" - 6" .vs .45 3" - 4"

Switch, the short barrels can be made to run flawlessly. With that being said, I feel that you need to run reg maint. on them more often than a full size. I love 1911's and carry a full size almost every day. When I carry a shorty (very infrequently) I end up grabbing my G36 before my Kimber Ultra CDPII. I feel that the recoil on the 36 is more controlable for follow-up shots. The key to carrying full size is a good belt and holster. I use a Sparks VMII holster and a Rafter Gunleather belt. One of the good points of the VMII is that the attach points are further apart which helps to distribute the weight over a greater area.

 

[tedbiv]

Re: .45 5" - 6" .vs .45 3" - 4"

I just recently purchased a SA .45 service (thumb saftey) cause my colt gold cup just wasn't going to carry well. I thought going from 5" to 4" would be aa big difference. It was, but not big enough. It still doesn't conceal well. So I started looking at sub compacts. I have a number of .45's so I didn;t want to get into another caliber. I found a local gunshop had a colt talo "night defender". I haven't put more than 200 rounds through it. The colt site states what others have stated about taking a 1911 design down so small. THey have redesigned the pistol for the 3" ( new agent, agent, night agent ) series specifically to accomodate the differences. When disassembling it, it looks more like a SA XD than a colt. THe whole reciever spring meachanism has been redesigned. I love it. It handles well. It holds a good group out to 10yds ( all i've shot so far ). Doesn't jump too much, haven't had any problems ( other than colt just announced a recall for the spring mechanism ). The aluminum frame is light, the 8 rounds is nice, the pistol conceals well, is well balanced. And it has the fell and function of all the other 1911 models I have.

just my shallow view.

tedbiv

 

[300WSM]

Re: .45 5" - 6" .vs .45 3" - 4"

gotta like the G30 or 36. corbon dpx rds!

 

[RGraff]

Re: .45 5" - 6" .vs .45 3" - 4"

I hear ya Switch. Those micros give me a third leg too.

I've carried my enhanced Commander for years but I've often considered getting one of the little guys for when I don't wear enough clothing to conceal it properly (ie: hot summer months).

We expect pics when the new baby arrives.

 

[Downzero]

Re: .45 5" - 6" .vs .45 3" - 4"

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tim1071</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Switchblade, I have only three 1911's. Two are Commander's and one is a full size 1911. I have shot thousands of rounds through all three. The 4 inch guns are just as reliable as the 5inch guns. To say a 5 inch 1911 is the only one worth carring because it was designed to have a 5 inch barrel is incorrect. What is most important in choosing your ccw 1911 is through testing. Shoot it, alot, make sure it works, make sure it is accurate, make sure it is reliable. Know where it shoots with the ammo you are using. I would consider this more important than barrel lenth. </div></div>

A Commander is 4 1/4". A 4" is not a Commander.