I love the venerable 45-70. Any other shooters? I just ordered an H&R Buffalo Classic for a build. Pretty excited. I have some 500 grain spitzers im dying to try
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45-70?
- Thread starter wvfarrier
- Start date
That's what I have. Love the gun but since its pretty impractical for me I'm thinking of selling/trading it.
In a world where heavy metal takes a back seat and one does everything possible to flatten out the rainbow trajectory of yore...well, you got guts asking. I probably have thirty years into the venerable 45-70 and think of it with the same reverence as the .45acp. In fact, in may ways, they are similar. Just know this, within 200 yards, on medium game its game over with that round. I can't help you at all on your choice of H&R as I have seen one. Not a great fan of that breach action, but it has served other well. But that round kicks butt.
Ha ha. Thanks I have a bushnell elite 3200 on my marlin with 22" barrel. Using some 405 grain hard cast and several grains of lil gun I can ring the bell at 300 yards with it. Although my shoulder does not approve!!!! It kills at both ends. I am really hopin to develop some good loads for the Buffalo classic i just ordered.
ive got a ruger no 1 in 45/70 and with the right loads i can safely acheive speeds within 100 fps of the 458 win mag, i dont know that your brake action can handle that hot of a load but even the loads developed for rifles like the marlin will still thump the shooter pretty well and flat dominate anything that walks planet earth. the soft point 405 gr remingtons are a great bullet for shooting a lot cheaply and as a bonus most 45/70s ive come into contact with shoot them accurately. i generally shoot them but recently took some 450 gr solids out and tacked a target to a tree stump with a 36 in plus diameter and with the solids i passed entirely through the tree and retained enough energy to make an impressive blast on the sand bank beyond it. my hope was to recover one but after digging about 8 inches or so into the berm i gave up. that thing may fly like a brick compared to modern bottle necked cartridges but it still hits like a frieght train. i got mine for some of the larger black bears up here in the pacific northwest but as of yet havent been able to connect with one. its probably more than i need but overkill is under rated, and i figure if it can bite me i want it down right now and unable to get back up.
Ha ha. No doubt. I shot a couple of those 500 grain spitzers out of my sons handi rifle 45-70 with 15 (i think) grains of lil gun. Accuracy was great 3/4" at 100 yrds but lord have mercy they kicked. That being said it went clean through a station wagon at 50 yards from end to end
I love 45-70 and currently shoot 45-90. I am not a big fan of jacketed bullets in those calibers preferring cast all the way. I also tend to shoot only blackpowder in my big 45's.
lol, those 500 grainers will have a nice kick. I'm slinging Beartooth 525 grain cast bullets .460 dia with a .357 metplat. they're accurate out of my 1895 SBL, and... after the penetration testing I did last summer, it's my Brown Bear Devastator. I have never seen that many wet phonebooks explode before...
My C.Sharps 1874 with malcolm scope is great, wish I had a longer range close by. Will be moving back out west in a couple of years and will be able to take full advantage. Both smokeless and black powder work well with 500 gr pure lead, bp initial loads seem to work best, but it is a work in progress. The 1884 trapdoors are also a hoot, especially the carbine after i loaded carbine loads from original data book I got at the Ft Benning library. It was keyholeing bad even though barrel was in good shape. After talking with an expert found out at that time springfield quality control and tolerances were lacking. As per his advice I had rapine make me a govt 500gr mold in .46, and it solved the problem. Using the carbine.50gr bp makes it very pleasurable on the shoulder too.
New to the 45-70 with a recently purchased JM Marlin Lever gun... Just been able to take it out for a shoot a couple weeks back, and besides for a few small tweaks, with a new trigger and new sight, I love it.. everybody should have one!
Ah yes, the good old 45-70. I'm a fan. Back when I first started shooting rifles and reloading and I thought the 308 was the end-all-be-all I saw a 45-70 cartridge in a shadow box display and was like "Wow! I want a rifle chambered in that crazy ass cartridge!" It made a big impression on me visually, and turned out to be quite effective. I've owned a couple of Marlins, and am now down to this beauty:
Marlin 1895 SBL. One of the few built in the old North Haven, CT plant when Marlin was Marlin before Remington took over production. Precision distance shooting is more my game now but it's still awesome when you shoot a deer or hog the old west way and they just flop right over. Handier to carry and shoulder than my bolt actions, too. Guns seem to come and go quickly through my house, always selling something off to buy something new. This Marlin is the only one I will NEVER sell.
Anyway, I only have one load and it's a thumper. I shoot Beartooth's 350 grain Piledriver Lite over H322 for 1900 FPS out of the 18.5" barrel. I haven't had to track anything that I've shot with these, they just punch big ass holes right on through. Even straight on through the brisket of a hog, they will crush spine, pelvis and whatever else gets in the way and penetrate end to end. Can't see a reason for me to experiment with anything else. Accuracy is fantastic, it's surprised a fair number of other shooters who have tried it.
Here's a pic of the Beartooth 350's, they have a really wide nose.
At my gun club there's a guy with a modern Sharps that casts his own 500 grainers and loads them over black powder with paper patches and I like to shoot that whenever I run into him. If it weren't such a pain to clean I'd like to try to load some like his for the range. That's a mild load and his rifle is a hammer. Our club has an angled back stop made of plate steel on the 100 yard line and those 500 grain bullets are slow enough you can hear them whack the back stop. They are LOUD when they hit. Boom-THUNK!
I think there's still a lot of usefulness in some of these old dinosaur cartridges.
Marlin 1895 SBL. One of the few built in the old North Haven, CT plant when Marlin was Marlin before Remington took over production. Precision distance shooting is more my game now but it's still awesome when you shoot a deer or hog the old west way and they just flop right over. Handier to carry and shoulder than my bolt actions, too. Guns seem to come and go quickly through my house, always selling something off to buy something new. This Marlin is the only one I will NEVER sell.
Anyway, I only have one load and it's a thumper. I shoot Beartooth's 350 grain Piledriver Lite over H322 for 1900 FPS out of the 18.5" barrel. I haven't had to track anything that I've shot with these, they just punch big ass holes right on through. Even straight on through the brisket of a hog, they will crush spine, pelvis and whatever else gets in the way and penetrate end to end. Can't see a reason for me to experiment with anything else. Accuracy is fantastic, it's surprised a fair number of other shooters who have tried it.
Here's a pic of the Beartooth 350's, they have a really wide nose.
At my gun club there's a guy with a modern Sharps that casts his own 500 grainers and loads them over black powder with paper patches and I like to shoot that whenever I run into him. If it weren't such a pain to clean I'd like to try to load some like his for the range. That's a mild load and his rifle is a hammer. Our club has an angled back stop made of plate steel on the 100 yard line and those 500 grain bullets are slow enough you can hear them whack the back stop. They are LOUD when they hit. Boom-THUNK!
I think there's still a lot of usefulness in some of these old dinosaur cartridges.
i havent tried the straight lead cast cast bullets yet but id like to. so far my go to bullets have been the 405 gr remington soft points and the 350 gr hornady round nose bullets both of which are inexpensive and give decent accuracy. ive also played with horandys dangerous game bullets a bit, and some of the barnes solids and tsx bullets, theyre a bit more expensive but damn they hit like the hammer of thor, with a heavy load of 4198 they thump my shoulder solidly as well. the best accuracy ive gotten out of the number one has been with the 325 gr ftx, cloverleafs at 100 yrds with boring regularity
LR BPCR shooting is fun, but tricky. I learned that while getting my butt kicked at a Creedmoor Match (800, 900, & 1000 yards).
I shot with some national class shooters, I learned that your bullet needs to be pure lead. Don't run it hot. About 1100 fps for the 535 postel bullets is best. Don't crimp the bullets, seat by hand just before you shoot. The powder is held in the case with a vegetable fiber wad. Final seating is done by closing the breach. Swab between shots.
Prior to taking the above advise my bullets were tumbling at distance.
I used a Browning replaca of the Model 1895 High Wall. Great rifle after I learned what I was doing. Not much for a cheek weld when using iron sights at long range. As you can see in the photo showing my sights set for 1000 yards.
I shot with some national class shooters, I learned that your bullet needs to be pure lead. Don't run it hot. About 1100 fps for the 535 postel bullets is best. Don't crimp the bullets, seat by hand just before you shoot. The powder is held in the case with a vegetable fiber wad. Final seating is done by closing the breach. Swab between shots.
Prior to taking the above advise my bullets were tumbling at distance.
I used a Browning replaca of the Model 1895 High Wall. Great rifle after I learned what I was doing. Not much for a cheek weld when using iron sights at long range. As you can see in the photo showing my sights set for 1000 yards.
Black Powder cartridge...... One of my favorite past- times
Shiloh Sharps Long Range express 45-70
Remington Hepburn. 45-90
Ballard #7 45-110
Ballard #4 1/2. 40-65
Shiloh Sharps Long Range express 45-70
Remington Hepburn. 45-90
Ballard #7 45-110
Ballard #4 1/2. 40-65
I had always wanted a 45-70. Found a Miroku Repro, of the Winchester 1886, and picked it up. It's one of my favorites, for "fun". Hits like a freight train. I shoot 350 grainers, after a few "black and blue" shoulders.I guess I'm "out of the closet", now. I love shooting "long range", But my love,for old 45's is still here. Damn, those shells are long. Like a 45 ACP, on MAX steroids! Read the loads, and you see that they can be "pushed" to the 458 win mag speeds, with the right gun. That's pretty impressive, for a shell that's that old! Maybe I "push " mine, a little too" far", some times, but she hasn't blown up, yet. I've got to get a Marlin, so I can "scope" one. Forget the "trajectory". It's all math. It's a 168, out of a 308, or a 350, out of a 45-70. I'd "like to hit" with the 350 grn.Like "some guys have stated: It goes through cars!!!!
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I also have one of those Miroku repro 1886's, sold by Browning. Mine had a 28" octagon barrel with full length mag tube. Beautiful rifle and a good shooter. I'd like to fine a good tang sight for it so I can stretch its legs a little.
I'm "on the fence", between an old Sharps-repro, or a new Marlin. Sell me?
C. Sharps Long Range Express 45 2 4/10ths
Just a suggestion: Look at the Italian "Repro's" They might have a Tang sight for ya.
Shot my first deer some 40 years ago with a Ruger #1 & iron sights-- still have the gun and regularly shoot it!
Also have an original Springfield trapdoor that I shoot black powder with paper patch slugs from in the local matches.
Great vintage caliber that will, like the 30-06, never see full retirement.
Also have an original Springfield trapdoor that I shoot black powder with paper patch slugs from in the local matches.
Great vintage caliber that will, like the 30-06, never see full retirement.
My first 45/70 was a Ruger mdl 3.
It is about the size of a Winchester 94 that I owned before I caught sight of the Ruger.
With heavy loads of 300 grain jacketed hollow points it worked great on deer!
The heavy loads of Speer's 400 grain jacketed flat points never were fired at a elk.
It was an ideal brush gun - then I sold it!
In the late 90's I came across a Pedersoli replica of the 1874 Sharps in 45/70.
This 'Billy Dixon' model has been fun to shoot.
I started shooting it with smokeless powder, then Goex black powder, then upgraded to Swiss black powder.
I replaced the Pedersoli front and tang sights.
I now have a MVA Buffalo tang sight and a more efficient front sight with a bubble.
Accuracy was a major challenge for me.
My reloading techniques were lacking!
With the reloading advice from brothers Bill and Lannie I now have black powder loads that group close to 2" at 200 yards off the bench using iron sights.
At Saturday's match shooting at various sized metal targets at distances of 216 yards to 1000 yards I got 12 hits with 23 shots fired.
All 20 competitors shot off of crossed sticks.
I was one of the few who shot from the sitting position.
It provides less recoil but is less stable.
My bullet of choice is a Lyman Postell that I cast myself and weigh about 528 grains.
What fun
It is about the size of a Winchester 94 that I owned before I caught sight of the Ruger.
With heavy loads of 300 grain jacketed hollow points it worked great on deer!
The heavy loads of Speer's 400 grain jacketed flat points never were fired at a elk.
It was an ideal brush gun - then I sold it!
In the late 90's I came across a Pedersoli replica of the 1874 Sharps in 45/70.
This 'Billy Dixon' model has been fun to shoot.
I started shooting it with smokeless powder, then Goex black powder, then upgraded to Swiss black powder.
I replaced the Pedersoli front and tang sights.
I now have a MVA Buffalo tang sight and a more efficient front sight with a bubble.
Accuracy was a major challenge for me.
My reloading techniques were lacking!
With the reloading advice from brothers Bill and Lannie I now have black powder loads that group close to 2" at 200 yards off the bench using iron sights.
At Saturday's match shooting at various sized metal targets at distances of 216 yards to 1000 yards I got 12 hits with 23 shots fired.
All 20 competitors shot off of crossed sticks.
I was one of the few who shot from the sitting position.
It provides less recoil but is less stable.
My bullet of choice is a Lyman Postell that I cast myself and weigh about 528 grains.
What fun
In BPCR matches, does anyone use the old Springfield Trapdoor rifles? And if not, why? What rifles are the most popular in long range BP matches? What velocities do most loads run in BPCR rifles? IIRC, theyre pretty low as thats where the accuracy is?
Also, what do the bullets look like, as far as the shape? Round nose? Pointed? Flat base? Boat tail? Does anyone have any pics of some popular long range BP match bullet(s)? And what is the range of ballistic coefficients on the most popular bullets? Im guessing around .350-.400 G1?
Thanks yall, as you can see, dont know much about BPCR shooting and been curious for a while. I bet the recoil is pretty severe on most of them.
Also, what do the bullets look like, as far as the shape? Round nose? Pointed? Flat base? Boat tail? Does anyone have any pics of some popular long range BP match bullet(s)? And what is the range of ballistic coefficients on the most popular bullets? Im guessing around .350-.400 G1?
Thanks yall, as you can see, dont know much about BPCR shooting and been curious for a while. I bet the recoil is pretty severe on most of them.
If you can find an IAB Sharps in .45/70 they are beautifully made and way more fun than a Marlin. I have the Pumpkin Slinger 45/70 Sharps and it comes out every Thanksgiving week for our annual Pumpkin Slinger Pumpkin Shoot. We get a pile of unsold Jack-o-lanterns... cut a plug out of them and fill them with water... then set them out at 400 -500 yards to shoot at with Sharps, Black Powder rifles, etc. Only Rules here at the farm for the annual Pumpkin shoot: No optics, no "modern" inline muzzleloaders, no cartridges designed after 1900. Lots of guys have their BP deer rifles...
The Marlin's make great deer rifles, but for sheer fun of shooting, a Sharps repro with ladder sights and a .45/70 BP cartridge (or modern appropriate load)... can't be beat.
Cheers,
Sirhr
Here's what a Sharps M1874 will do from 1000 yards fired with aperture sights:
50 2 1/2 Group by Sharps45 2 7/8, on Flickr
This was 10 rounds fired using 120 grs. BP and 720 gr. all-lead cast bullets that I pour up. This particular alloy was 1-20 IIRC. I was testing this load for holding elevation and had I been interested in a score all I would have had to do was possibly take 1 MOA left and all would have been inside the 20" clanger shown. The vertical on this group is only about 10" and that is good elevation holding for this load. I can fire a shot from prone or bench, move over to the spotting scope and watch the rounds smack the target! A real kick in the azz! These were paper patched bullets.
50 2 1/2 Group by Sharps45 2 7/8, on Flickr
This was 10 rounds fired using 120 grs. BP and 720 gr. all-lead cast bullets that I pour up. This particular alloy was 1-20 IIRC. I was testing this load for holding elevation and had I been interested in a score all I would have had to do was possibly take 1 MOA left and all would have been inside the 20" clanger shown. The vertical on this group is only about 10" and that is good elevation holding for this load. I can fire a shot from prone or bench, move over to the spotting scope and watch the rounds smack the target! A real kick in the azz! These were paper patched bullets.
These are what I use or have used in my 45's. All cast 20:1 lead tin from left to right:
Paul Jones Creedmoor 545gr, Gunn 349c 535gr, Gunn 349c nose pour 539gr, Paul Jones Money 540gr and last Paul Jones Money for paper patched.
Lone tree black powder cartridge rifle shoot
Labor Day weekend I attended the lone tree shoot in Montana.
I fired 114 rounds in my Pedersoli 1874 Sharps replica in 45/70.
Metal targets were set at 220 yards to just beyond 1000.
Most of the thirteen or so competitors shot from the prone position.
I started there but went to the sitting position for more comfort.
Each match consists of four targets at four different ranges with two shots at each.
Each competitor shoots at one target giving each time to make needed sight adjustments for the next target.
I fired in 11 out of 12 matches.
in match nine i had a total of 7 hits - so did two others.
in the shoot off i had a first shot miss- so did two others.
On my second shot i managed a hit - so did one other.
i made the only third shot hit winning one match on the last day of the shoot.
Labor Day weekend I attended the lone tree shoot in Montana.
I fired 114 rounds in my Pedersoli 1874 Sharps replica in 45/70.
Metal targets were set at 220 yards to just beyond 1000.
Most of the thirteen or so competitors shot from the prone position.
I started there but went to the sitting position for more comfort.
Each match consists of four targets at four different ranges with two shots at each.
Each competitor shoots at one target giving each time to make needed sight adjustments for the next target.
I fired in 11 out of 12 matches.
in match nine i had a total of 7 hits - so did two others.
in the shoot off i had a first shot miss- so did two others.
On my second shot i managed a hit - so did one other.
i made the only third shot hit winning one match on the last day of the shoot.
Attachments
I probably have more 45/70 caliber rifles in my collection than any other caliber. From Trapdoor Springfield's, to the 3 1880's Trial rifles, the Shiloh, Browning and Winchester recent production and Italian Sharps and Rolling Blocks and a Ruger #1. The Lyman 385 cat bullet always worked well for me.
I have two shilohs in 45-70. Absolutely love them and the accuracy with black powder is amazing. I was a little worried id have to try every load under the sun, but i found accuracy immediately with both.
I fired this yesterday in preparation for an elk hunt later this month. High group is 50 yards, low is 100 yards, aim point was the same for both. All six shots were fired from a cold clean bore over about two hours. The rifle was ordered as a creedmoor and heavily altered to make a light hunting rifle, with a 26" standard half round barrel with the standard blade and buckhorn sights. Interestingly this is the zero that came with the gun. Both of my rifles had near perfect zeros from shiloh. Amazing considering fairly heavy recoil and glacial barrel times. I only shoot black powder and my own cast bullets.
Paper patch bullet on the left, elk bullet on the right. They are 514 and 520 grains.
I fired this yesterday in preparation for an elk hunt later this month. High group is 50 yards, low is 100 yards, aim point was the same for both. All six shots were fired from a cold clean bore over about two hours. The rifle was ordered as a creedmoor and heavily altered to make a light hunting rifle, with a 26" standard half round barrel with the standard blade and buckhorn sights. Interestingly this is the zero that came with the gun. Both of my rifles had near perfect zeros from shiloh. Amazing considering fairly heavy recoil and glacial barrel times. I only shoot black powder and my own cast bullets.
Paper patch bullet on the left, elk bullet on the right. They are 514 and 520 grains.
This is a Marlin that I just finished with for my own shooting pleasure! It is a 336 Cowboy with a 26" barrel that I installed GBL fore and buttstocks on it with the big loop lever. I also installed the Lyman #2 tang sight on it as well.
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LR BPCR shooting is fun, but tricky. I learned that while getting my butt kicked at a Creedmoor Match (800, 900, & 1000 yards).
I shot with some national class shooters, I learned that your bullet needs to be pure lead. Don't run it hot. About 1100 fps for the 535 postel bullets is best. Don't crimp the bullets, seat by hand just before you shoot. The powder is held in the case with a vegetable fiber wad. Final seating is done by closing the breach. Swab between shots.
Prior to taking the above advise my bullets were tumbling at distance.
I used a Browning replaca of the Model 1895 High Wall. Great rifle after I learned what I was doing. Not much for a cheek weld when using iron sights at long range. As you can see in the photo showing my sights set for 1000 yards.
Kraig, I need to hook up with you next time I am in west by god Virginia.
I love the 45-70. Have a highwall and a marlin.
Use the marlin for my brush gun and the highwall for fun. Also have a highwall in 38-55 that is a lot of fun.
One family member has a 1885 high wall (Italian) and I have a Win-Jap 1886. Both are 45-90.
With the right load, his 1885 will ring the gong at 600yds using his Leatherwood scope.
Mine does just fine out to 200yds with iron ladder sights. (When Smith still made them)
With the right load, his 1885 will ring the gong at 600yds using his Leatherwood scope.
Mine does just fine out to 200yds with iron ladder sights. (When Smith still made them)
Always been my favorite. Anything I've shot with a 45/70 or 450 Marlin has fallen down, great for bear hunting. I have several singles, levers, 2 Siamese Mausers, 2 Contenders, a 10" Revolver & a Remington SxS double rifle. Will always be my favorite. I taught both sons to reload with a Lee Loader 45/70 kit & a mallet.
I bought a very nice condition Pedersolli Billy Dixion 45/70 about 6 or 7 years ago. It had actually been built in the late 80s but it was flawless. Oh, I loved that gun. 31" barrel. My eyes wouldn't allow me to shoot it worth crap though. Sold it for what I paid for it. Now I shoot a ported guide gun. Using Hornady LeverEvolutions, I can hit 200 yards w/o too much trouble. Use if for my bear gun. Love it too.
I am a member of the .45-70 fan club also. Here is my Shiloh Sharps, it shoots real nice with 530 Postell bullets over a true 70 grains of FFg in Winchester brass. This is a picture I took before I put the long range Soule sight on it.
BPCR Competition
On December 14,2013 I managed to come in 2nd place with a score of 13.
First place earned a score of 14.
A maximum score of 18 was possible.
Shooting started at 200+ yards; then 330 yds, 480 yds, 600 yds, 880 yds, and 1,000 yds.
The 480 yd target was a buffalo and was shot offhand.
All others were your choice - off cross sticks(sitting or prone)!
I used a Pedrsoli 1874 Sharps in 45/70.
The front sight contained a bubble and the rear was MVA souls tang sight!
On December 14,2013 I managed to come in 2nd place with a score of 13.
First place earned a score of 14.
A maximum score of 18 was possible.
Shooting started at 200+ yards; then 330 yds, 480 yds, 600 yds, 880 yds, and 1,000 yds.
The 480 yd target was a buffalo and was shot offhand.
All others were your choice - off cross sticks(sitting or prone)!
I used a Pedrsoli 1874 Sharps in 45/70.
The front sight contained a bubble and the rear was MVA souls tang sight!
Attachments
The 45-70 is a fun and can be accurate round.
My 'English' Sharps 77 @100m, 520g cast going 1170fps, BP fibre wad.
Have a good Xmas all
My 'English' Sharps 77 @100m, 520g cast going 1170fps, BP fibre wad.
Have a good Xmas all
